e whether you were upgrading or reinstalling a package.
--
Ciaran McCreesh
it as a bug.
>
> Did you come up with a solution how to handle eclass-generated
> dependency changes then?
>
> I'd loathe to have to do identical revision bumps for, say, all perl-
> module.eclass consumers...
perl-cleaner is rather strong evidence that the Perl situation needs a
major change anyway...
--
Ciaran McCreesh
ad on expiring news
items...) Are you sure you don't just want to target this at people who
have the old version installed, instead?
--
Ciaran McCreesh
backing up an auto migrated change?
Yes, this header is backwards. It's a message to be displayed to users
who have the old version, not a message to be displayed to users who
install the new version for the first time ever and who have never used
the old version.
--
Ciaran McCreesh
; have occurred:
How accurate is "around"? Obviously we'd need to introduce a user
configuration option so different users could set appropriate values
for their needs.
Seriously though, all this complexity is just highlighting that dates
are a really bad way of deciding when a news item should expire, and
that if we need anything, it's more Display-If conditions.
--
Ciaran McCreesh
switch to show
Package manglers having to use heuristics when explicit information
could easily be provided by developers but isn't is the source of at
least 27.4% of Gentoo's problems.
--
Ciaran McCreesh
vice? I ask, because
the lawyers I've spoken to about a similar issue seemed to think it
wasn't that simple.
--
Ciaran McCreesh
n "military applications". This was sufficient for the highly paid
lawyers who looked at it to recommend not redistributing Nauty as part
of the GAP computer algebra system, because computer algebra could
conceivably be used for blowing stuff up.
--
Ciaran McCreesh
rsions.
This sounds like the sort of thing that could go horribly wrong... I
didn't design versionator to work with arbitrary messy stuff since the
main use is in manipulating Gentoo PV versions. Where are these other
versions coming from?
--
Ciaran McCreesh
On Thu, 07 Sep 2017 07:42:31 +0200
Michał Górny <mgo...@gentoo.org> wrote:
> >+if [[ "${EAPI}" -lt 6 ]]; then
>
> EAPI is not a number. The next one we'll call gray-grizzly just to
> prove the point.
Careful, you're turning into me.
--
Ciaran McCreesh
e. Should that live in the devmanual? Or maybe
> the Vim project page?
One potential issue is help files: any Vim plugin that comes with
documentation needs a little script (which requires Vim to be installed)
to be run in pkg_postinst.
--
Ciaran McCreesh
performance difficulties are
implementation-related, not a fundamental problem.
--
Ciaran McCreesh
t feasible to make -C act like -c due to
> the performance hit involved and due to the purpose of the command
> itself.
Have you profiled this? It shouldn't be slow if implemented correctly.
--
Ciaran McCreesh
ce
> regression. Which would result in users requesting yet another option
> to disable this.
Eh, that's a Portage performance problem, not a package manager
performance problem.
--
Ciaran McCreesh
On Sat, 8 Jul 2017 19:58:13 -0400
"William L. Thomson Jr." <wlt...@o-sinc.com> wrote:
> On Sun, 9 Jul 2017 00:49:57 +0100
> Ciaran McCreesh <ciaran.mccre...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> > On Sat, 8 Jul 2017 19:39:33 -0400
> > "William L. Thomson Jr.&quo
rying to expand their use.
Sets exist because people keep saying "let's have sets!" without
agreeing on what sets actually are or how they are to be used. Sets
remain half-baked because it turns out they don't make consistent sense
in different contexts when you give them a non-superfi
? ( )
> is false.
The sensible thing to do is ban it, and additionally ban use? ( )
inside || and ^^ (if we've not done that already...).
--
Ciaran McCreesh
On Sat, 8 Jul 2017 16:14:09 +0200
Alexis Ballier <aball...@gentoo.org> wrote:
> On Sat, 8 Jul 2017 13:01:39 +0100
> Ciaran McCreesh <ciaran.mccre...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> > On Sat, 8 Jul 2017 13:49:56 +0200
> > Alexis Ballier <aball...@gentoo.org> wrote:
e
> rationale and usecase behind this ?
Annoying special cases like || ( foo? ( ... ) bar? ( ... ) ) . The
original reason was that old versions of Portage would simply remove
unmet "flag? ( )" blocks internally. It was kept in EAPI 0 because
stuff in the tree used it back then.
--
Ciaran McCreesh
You can also
> specify SLOTs. For example, this is valid.
>
> media-libs/tiff:3[abi_x86_32,jpeg,zlib,-cxx]
And this is one of many reasons "sets in profiles" isn't going to work:
we don't really know what most of this stuff means...
--
Ciaran McCreesh
On Thu, 15 Jun 2017 19:30:02 +0200
Alexis Ballier <aball...@gentoo.org> wrote:
> On Thu, 15 Jun 2017 18:04:35 +0100
> Ciaran McCreesh <ciaran.mccre...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> > On Thu, 15 Jun 2017 18:55:45 +0200
> > Alexis Ballier <aball...@gentoo.org> wro
On Thu, 15 Jun 2017 18:55:45 +0200
Alexis Ballier <aball...@gentoo.org> wrote:
> The guarantee comes from the fact that the output is always in the
> space of all possible inputs from the user. So, if some output will
> kill a kitten, so does some input.
USE=minimal
USE=mips
USE=-
roducing good error messages
so the user can figure the problem out, not on producing bad solutions
that will confuse things even more.
--
Ciaran McCreesh
On Thu, 15 Jun 2017 18:30:10 +0200
Alexis Ballier <aball...@gentoo.org> wrote:
> On Thu, 15 Jun 2017 17:22:26 +0100
> Ciaran McCreesh <ciaran.mccre...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> > On Thu, 15 Jun 2017 18:19:04 +0200
> > Alexis Ballier <aball...@gentoo.org> wrote:
On Thu, 15 Jun 2017 18:19:04 +0200
Alexis Ballier <aball...@gentoo.org> wrote:
> On Thu, 15 Jun 2017 17:13:57 +0100
> Ciaran McCreesh <ciaran.mccre...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> > On Thu, 15 Jun 2017 18:07:00 +0200
> > Alexis Ballier <aball...@gentoo.org> wrote:
nking :)
The problem with this entire proposal is that it's still in "well I
can't think of how it could possibly go wrong" territory. We need a
formal proof that it's sound. History has shown that if something can
be abused by Gentoo developers, it will be abused...
--
Ciaran McCreesh
On Mon, 05 Jun 2017 20:10:12 +0200
Michał Górny <mgo...@gentoo.org> wrote:
> I'm sure Ciaran will love to elaborate ;-).
It's doomed. Even if you get it to work, which you won't, it won't
survive ten seconds contact with the enemy.
--
Ciaran McCreesh
t does, and only because
it's effectively a fork.
> This would require a multi-dimensional array of approx 7 packages
> (today) versus however many ebuilds are currently in Portage for each
> editor. Do I see any volunteers for compatibility testing for all
> current and future VI-family editors and plugins on all current and
> future ebuilds on all arches (small and large endian) and various USE
> flags?
You appear to be confusing vi and vim.
--
Ciaran McCreesh
bar
even if there is no need to do so.
Good luck figuring out how to encode grounding in SAT...
--
Ciaran McCreesh
On Thu, 1 Jun 2017 09:38:01 -0400
"Walter Dnes" <waltd...@waltdnes.org> wrote:
> On Wed, May 31, 2017 at 11:54:59PM +0100, Ciaran McCreesh wrote
> > - Have a separate anyvimishthing directory, and make both vim and
> > neovim look there, and only make plugins th
> ...and then vimthreesome for things that work with three vim
> implementations?
If that ever happens, which is fairly unlikely, then revisit the
problem then, rather than adding unnecessary complexity now just in
case.
--
Ciaran McCreesh
> or even:
>
> - making eselect module for user to rule that.
- Have a separate anyvimishthing directory, and make both vim and
neovim look there, and only make plugins that have been tested to work
with both install to that directory.
--
Ciaran McCreesh
On Wed, 31 May 2017 21:02:24 +0200
Michał Górny <mgo...@gentoo.org> wrote:
> No, it can't. That's the whole point. The algorithm must be defined so
> that it is always predictable independently of order
So what's this mysterious algorithm then?
--
Ciaran McCreesh
On Wed, 31 May 2017 09:35:04 +0200
Michał Górny <mgo...@gentoo.org> wrote:
> On śro, 2017-05-31 at 08:24 +0100, Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
> > On Wed, 31 May 2017 08:55:17 +0200
> > Michał Górny <mgo...@gentoo.org> wrote:
> > > For example:
> > >
> &g
On Wed, 31 May 2017 08:55:17 +0200
Michał Górny <mgo...@gentoo.org> wrote:
> For example:
>
> foo? ( bar )
>
> would mean 'if you have USE=foo, then USE=bar is enabled as well'.
What about "if bar cannot be enabled, then turn foo off"?
--
Ciaran McCreesh
On Tue, 30 May 2017 10:46:54 +0200
Alexis Ballier <aball...@gentoo.org> wrote:
> On Tue, 30 May 2017 09:22:45 +0100
> Ciaran McCreesh <ciaran.mccre...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> > On Tue, 30 May 2017 09:42:45 +0200
> > Alexis Ballier <aball...@gentoo.org> w
onential behaviour exist, not that those instances
will occur in the application area you care about.
--
Ciaran McCreesh
the most obvious and shortest answer to
fixing Gnome resolution errors was to set USE=mips because that
disabled a whole load of browser dependencies...
--
Ciaran McCreesh
m SAT. That isn't
necessarily a problem, because resolution isn't even in NP yet we're
still managing to spit out decent answers most of the time. Rather, the
difficulty lies in spitting out a *good* solution to the problem from
a user's perspective, and that's something that can't be done without
ext
On Mon, 29 May 2017 21:42:33 +0200
Michał Górny <mgo...@gentoo.org> wrote:
> On pon, 2017-05-29 at 20:24 +0100, Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
> > On Mon, 29 May 2017 17:33:13 +0200
> > Michał Górny <mgo...@gentoo.org> wrote:
> > > For a long time we seem to be
of its implementation. Have you implemented a prototype to
show that you can actually fix those problems?
--
Ciaran McCreesh
o Java team as it currently
exists, rather than the mythical perfect Gentoo Java team that existed
ten years ago and which will rise again soon, which is what William
meant.
--
Ciaran McCreesh
file
> type.
It's bad enough that we have to parse XML inside the package mangler for
optional data. Adding YAML (with all its format bugs: YAML files
created with libyaml can't be read by syck, and vice-versa) for files
that the package mangler has to read is even worse.
Plain text *is* a standard format.
--
Ciaran McCreesh
On Thu, 23 Mar 2017 22:37:49 +0100
Alexis Ballier <aball...@gentoo.org> wrote:
> On Thu, 23 Mar 2017 20:30:40 +
> Ciaran McCreesh <ciaran.mccre...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> > On Thu, 23 Mar 2017 21:22:54 +0100
> > Alexis Ballier <aball...@gentoo.org> wrote:
as written assuming reasonable behaviour from
developers, and we deliberately chose not to go the SHALL, MUST NOT
route because of the added cost of developing a specification that's
safe from hostile implementers.
--
Ciaran McCreesh
On Thu, 23 Mar 2017 20:49:15 +0100
Alexis Ballier <aball...@gentoo.org> wrote:
> On Thu, 23 Mar 2017 19:17:43 +
> Ciaran McCreesh <ciaran.mccre...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> > On Thu, 23 Mar 2017 20:12:04 +0100
> > Alexis Ballier <aball...@gentoo.org> wrote:
standing in the way of progress.
--
Ciaran McCreesh
atters: Gentoo needs to be actively improving the
quality of the tree so that progress can be made, not fighting a losing
battle to stop it from getting even worse.
--
Ciaran McCreesh
fix the issue too. At least with all
> currently approved EAPIs.
Please stop. PMS was not written with the kind of resources needed to
deal with people deliberately trying to find loopholes.
--
Ciaran McCreesh
anager tries to use it, that is; the rebuilds aren't
> triggered unless you're using portage.
The point is to specify dependencies declaratively. A dependency
expresses a dependency, not an action. If you can't express the kind of
dependency you need, then we need either labels or another *DEPEND
variable to take care of it, not a bodge.
--
Ciaran McCreesh
behavior for ":=" in DEPEND: it varies
> > depending on your "with-bdeps" setting.
> >
>
> This is why we can't have nice things.
Actually you can't have nice things because the labels proposal was
voted down for "being invented by the wrong people".
--
Ciaran McCreesh
g historical mistakes. You may
think it's not important, but if Gentoo finally gets into the habit of
ongoing improvements, the tree will slowly get better rather than
worse over time.
--
Ciaran McCreesh
nces: for example,
there used to be the mild nuisance of dealing with overlays which
didn't contain a categories list, and which did contain directories
named CVS all over the place.
--
Ciaran McCreesh
On Tue, 3 Jan 2017 05:56:56 +1300
Kent Fredric <ken...@gentoo.org> wrote:
> On Thu, 29 Dec 2016 17:23:58 +
> Ciaran McCreesh <ciaran.mccre...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>
> > Because it isn't... Are set names atoms? Are package names without
> > an associate
On Thu, 29 Dec 2016 13:28:12 +0100
Marc Schiffbauer <msch...@gentoo.org> wrote:
> "atom" is a well defined term in the gentoo world, so why not use it?
Because it isn't... Are set names atoms? Are package names without an
associated category atoms?
--
Ciaran McCreesh
On Thu, 29 Dec 2016 16:44:12 +0100
Jeroen Roovers <j...@gentoo.org> wrote:
> On Wed, 28 Dec 2016 22:31:19 +
> Ciaran McCreesh <ciaran.mccre...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> > We made a deliberate decision not to use the word "atom" in PMS
> > because it me
t a replacement for "atoms".
We made a deliberate decision not to use the word "atom" in PMS because
it means subtly different things in different contexts.
--
Ciaran McCreesh
tion of the social contract if Gentoo depended
upon that.
--
Ciaran McCreesh
On Fri, 2 Dec 2016 13:24:29 -0500
Mike Gilbert <flop...@gentoo.org> wrote:
> On Fri, Dec 2, 2016 at 1:10 PM, Ciaran McCreesh
> <ciaran.mccre...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> > On Fri, 2 Dec 2016 13:02:48 -0500
> > Mike Gilbert <flop...@gentoo.org> wrote:
> >
aged, but technically valid.
>
> https://devmanual.gentoo.org/ebuild-writing/file-format/index.html
>
>
> Why are uppercase characters strongly discouraged?
>
> Wouldn't it make sense to follow upstream's naming convention?
What's upstream's naming convention for Firefox?
--
Ciaran McCreesh
oper accounts, and my involvement with
Github as a company is limited to them buying me an awful lot of
free booze once. I think you might be seeing conspiracies in the
wrong place...
--
Ciaran McCreesh
o were recruited in a particular time window had to sign
it, but anyone who started before didn't.
--
Ciaran McCreesh
erlay behaviour, so it
doesn't really specify anything at all.
--
Ciaran McCreesh
a Working Group, and how is it related to a Project? Shouldn't
there be a GLEP to define what a Working Group is first?
--
Ciaran McCreesh
On Thu, 11 Aug 2016 17:57:59 +0300
Mart Raudsepp <l...@gentoo.org> wrote:
> I strongly believe that it's important to have such a use case as
> Steam work problem-free in Gentoo.
Steam isn't a use case, it's a program.
--
Ciaran McCreesh
echnologies, your skills will be obsolete in five years. If you are
learning general principles and problem solving, the particular
language being used is much less important.
--
Ciaran McCreesh
titude that invisible failures (which don't get fixed, and which
lead to occasional weirdness) are better than visible failures (which
must be fixed) is an odd one... Postel has a lot to answer for.
--
Ciaran McCreesh
metimes (and this is why code review exists), but it's not OK
to continue to argue that you were right out of stubbornness.
--
Ciaran McCreesh
w version of the
package, and then remove the old one (and if you think about it for a
few seconds, you can see that it *has* to be this way). If an error or
ctrl+c occurs at the wrong point, both versions remain installed, and
importantly, there is a safe way to recover from this.
--
Ciaran McCreesh
ersions simultaneously.
> Do we have any test suits for portage (as the most popular PM
> implementation) for such cases? I doubt this, I can find none. I'm
> not sure if such tests are implemented in other PM test suits too.
Portage doesn't exactly have many tests...
--
Ciaran McCreesh
On Sat, 23 Jul 2016 17:23:48 +0300
Andrew Savchenko <birc...@gentoo.org> wrote:
> On Fri, 22 Jul 2016 14:57:36 +0100 Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
> > On Fri, 22 Jul 2016 16:41:56 +0300
> > Andrew Savchenko <birc...@gentoo.org> wrote:
> [...]
> > > I see no p
> moved from ebuild elsewhere.
Slots are not the only way in which you can end up with multiple
installed versions of the same package. Another way is if there's a
fatal error during certain parts of the upgrade process.
--
Ciaran McCreesh
ory if you have that flag enabled, and
suggests you either install repository/kde or disable that USE flag so
that it can continue.
--
Ciaran McCreesh
Gentoo-style distribution?
--
Ciaran McCreesh
ackages that have small numbers of users
are in personal repositories which everyone can see". Libraries and
packages that start to be used by many people get moved to one of the
central repositories; one way to tell that this needs to be done is
when it looks like the issues you think could happen actually start to
happen.
--
Ciaran McCreesh
it is based on consensus in bug 353624 [1] and in the gentoo-dev
> mailing list [2,3].
Really, that policy predates REQUIRED_USE, and even EAPIs... In the
olden days, the rule was that USE flags were for things that were
optional, and that if something wasn't optional, then it shouldn't be
controlled by USE flags.
--
Ciaran McCreesh
only gives you the first error.
--
Ciaran McCreesh
On Fri, 27 May 2016 00:28:35 +0200
rindeal <dev.rind...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 1) what are they?
A horrible QA violation.
> 2) why are they used?
Because some people like to feel special...
--
Ciaran McCreesh
ith the src_ or pkg_ stripped
off, calling it that would be a huge pain.
--
Ciaran McCreesh
bent qa
> member delivering assessments under the title of 'code review' in the
> style he does.
If you're writing the kind of code that results in you being subjected
to scathing criticism for breaking metadata generation for the entire
tree, then discouraging you from contributing can only be good fo
lity of commit
criticism is unfair.
--
Ciaran McCreesh
source code from a position of unearned authority. This
is against the code of conduct, and is bad for the community!
--
Ciaran McCreesh
On Sun, 8 May 2016 01:25:58 -0400
Göktürk Yüksek <gokt...@binghamton.edu> wrote:
> Display-If-Installed: app-admin/lastpass
Every version, forever, even for new installs made next year?
--
Ciaran McCreesh
ed yet. Sigh.
Why reverse engineer it? It's all documented.
--
Ciaran McCreesh
to perceive that there is a problem. Being honest where
users or Phoronix could pick up on it is bad PR. Let's not create a
toxic perception of the state of the tree.
--
Ciaran McCreesh
rces all the LC variables to sane values. A few vocal
annoying users hate this, and patch it out...
--
Ciaran McCreesh
signature.asc
Description: PGP signature
oing from (say) -r1
> > all the way to -r4 before pushing my changes.
>
> Personally I don't think that's necessary. The "-r bump on dep change"
> argument is a defence against installer limitations and the
> replication of changes to users.
No it isn't.
--
Ciaran McCreesh
signature.asc
Description: PGP signature
comprehension problem here, rather than a
technology problem. The problem is your workflow, not the tools.
--
Ciaran McCreesh
signature.asc
Description: PGP signature
On Mon, 2 Nov 2015 12:48:29 -0500
Michael Orlitzky <m...@gentoo.org> wrote:
> Is there a way to say "give me any 4.x or 5.x slot"?
No. Slots are meaningless strings and do not support any comparison
except equality.
--
Ciaran McCreesh
signature.asc
Description: PGP signature
On Mon, 2 Nov 2015 14:33:57 -0500
Michael Orlitzky <m...@gentoo.org> wrote:
> Followup question, which of these is less dumb?
>
> Option 1: berkdb? ( >=sys-libs/db-4:* Option 2: berkdb? ( || ( sys-libs/db:4.2 ... sys-libs/db:5.3 ) )
Best option goes leftmost in ||.
-
e developers seem to insist upon using < dependencies
anyway...
--
Ciaran McCreesh
signature.asc
Description: PGP signature
s a better choice of distribution for you if you are.
--
Ciaran McCreesh
signature.asc
Description: PGP signature
On Thu, 29 Oct 2015 17:13:29 +0100
Chí-Thanh Christopher Nguyễn <chith...@gentoo.org> wrote:
> Ciaran McCreesh schrieb:
> > On Thu, 29 Oct 2015 16:22:40 +0100
> > Chí-Thanh Christopher Nguyễn <chith...@gentoo.org> wrote:
> >> The previous time I
at all profiles are EAPI 5
> this is ok I hope.
It's not really clear what the EAPI for the news directory is...
--
Ciaran McCreesh
signature.asc
Description: PGP signature
On Wed, 21 Oct 2015 01:25:53 +0200
hasufell <hasuf...@gentoo.org> wrote:
> Also, my package manager chokes on it. Repoman not, so that looks
> like a bug.
s/Repoman/Portage/
Portage will quite happily let you specify KEYWORDS=":)".
--
Ciaran McCreesh
signature.asc
Description: PGP signature
y using 'epatch "${PATCHES[@]}"' when proper patches do not
> fit in what you call 'all the useful features': I haven't seen any,
> so that I know where to stand on using that feature or not. It is
> simply inferior and deemed unfixable until next EAPI.
It would be nice if eutils defin
veryone is in replacing a weird, overly clever
and highly fragile collection of weirdness that's designed to mostly
accept any dodgy input, with one that just gets you to give it a sane
input to begin with.
--
Ciaran McCreesh
signature.asc
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On Sun, 18 Oct 2015 20:00:11 +0200
Alexis Ballier <aball...@gentoo.org> wrote:
> On Sun, 18 Oct 2015 13:44:30 +0100
> Ciaran McCreesh <ciaran.mccre...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> [...]
> > > - why should I ever want eapi6 src_prepare instead of
> > > base_sr
On Sat, 17 Oct 2015 14:49:36 +0200
hasufell <hasuf...@gentoo.org> wrote:
> You can apply the patches post_unpack or post_src_prepare witht hooks.
> What's the problem?
Running autorecrap.
--
Ciaran McCreesh
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.
So how about letting them that if they make a mistake, there are now
ways of rectifying that quickly?
--
Ciaran McCreesh
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