in a different slot. This is generally a good
thing, since newer versions are supposed to be better than older
versions. The problem is that now newer versions are being used to
mean with a different Ruby implementation or built in a different
way, which screws up the meaning.
--
Ciaran McCreesh
with versions and slots.
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Ciaran McCreesh
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On Sat, 23 Jun 2012 16:45:09 +0200
Gilles Dartiguelongue e...@gentoo.org wrote:
Le samedi 23 juin 2012 à 14:40 +0100, Ciaran McCreesh a écrit :
I'd like to know why using USE flags until a nicer solution is
available
is sufficiently terrible that it warrants a hackaround.
remember qt3
behaviour when multiple slots are capable of satisfying a
dependency.
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Ciaran McCreesh
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. It's
about reducing the impact of damage that's already been done until the
root cause is solved properly.
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On Sat, 23 Jun 2012 18:47:26 +0200
Justin j...@gentoo.org wrote:
On 23.06.2012 18:17, Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
On Sat, 23 Jun 2012 18:13:23 +0200
Justin j...@gentoo.org wrote:
Did you read what you wrote and thought about what you request from
others? Probably you better should.
Uh huh
marking, which takes
developers a few seconds, you want to screw over users? I think that
says a lot about Gentoo's attitude...
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will treat the gtk3
version or the jruby version as being newer versions of the gtk2
version or the ruby 1.8 version, just as it tries to bring in a
newer GCC and so on.
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. That's the point.
It could be that instead of Gentoo tagging a bunch of ebuilds, you
just change your resolver heuristic a bit.
The resolver heuristic is correct, except in the cases where people are
doing utterly weird things with revisions and slots.
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Ciaran McCreesh
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on.
And what problems is that causing for you?
The problem is that there's no way of knowing that -r300 is not a
newer version than -r200, and that the jruby implementation is not a
newer version than the ruby 1.8 implementation.
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Ciaran McCreesh
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On Sat, 23 Jun 2012 19:54:13 +0200
Michał Górny mgo...@gentoo.org wrote:
On Sat, 23 Jun 2012 18:45:46 +0100
Ciaran McCreesh ciaran.mccre...@googlemail.com wrote:
On Sat, 23 Jun 2012 19:43:10 +0200
Pacho Ramos pa...@gentoo.org wrote:
It treats -r300 as being newer than -r200, and so
not a single package, and b) ignore lists in a package manager
is a terrible idea.
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Ciaran McCreesh
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On Sat, 23 Jun 2012 20:23:13 +0200
Michał Górny mgo...@gentoo.org wrote:
On Sat, 23 Jun 2012 19:06:38 +0100
Ciaran McCreesh ciaran.mccre...@googlemail.com wrote:
On Sat, 23 Jun 2012 20:09:03 +0200
Michał Górny mgo...@gentoo.org wrote:
That's just it, though -- this no longer holds. -r300
we have a good solution
in place.
Or, looking at it another way, Portage's upgrade rules shouldn't be
locked in place because of weird behaviour from a few packages.
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packages that happen to depend upon
the problematic package. The property holds or not for a package
regardless of whether anything depends upon it.
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. The package mangler now needs a
way of knowing that for a certain few packages, bringing in new slots
when not explicitly required is undesirable.
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On Sat, 23 Jun 2012 22:27:03 +0300
Alex Alexander wi...@gentoo.org wrote:
On Sat, Jun 23, 2012 at 10:16 PM, Ciaran McCreesh
ciaran.mccre...@googlemail.com wrote:
On Sat, 23 Jun 2012 22:14:32 +0300
Alex Alexander wi...@gentoo.org wrote:
If it is a package without reverse dependencies
On Sat, 23 Jun 2012 22:36:14 +0200
Marien Zwart mari...@gentoo.org wrote:
On za, 2012-06-23 at 17:08 +0100, Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
Is it that Paludis installs a newer SLOT even if a reverse
dependency
explicitly requests another SLOT? Sounds like a bug to me.
No, it's that if a user
On Thu, 21 Jun 2012 23:01:15 +0200
Michał Górny mgo...@gentoo.org wrote:
Just a short note as it seems some confusion arises lately:
Ciaran McCreesh is not a Gentoo dev and his words don't represent
the position of Gentoo development team.
Right. Doesn't that make me more important than you
On Wed, 20 Jun 2012 23:43:36 +0200
Justin j...@gentoo.org wrote:
On 20.06.2012 22:35, Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
On Wed, 20 Jun 2012 16:25:30 -0400
Richard Yao r...@gentoo.org wrote:
Multilib (and/or multiarch) support
The current binaries cause a great deal of pain,
particularly when
on exherbo without issues?
If anyone ever manages to come up with another package mangler that can
get close to implementing what Exherbo needs, then sure.
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Ciaran McCreesh
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On Thu, 21 Jun 2012 09:29:49 +0200
Michał Górny mgo...@gentoo.org wrote:
On Wed, 20 Jun 2012 18:24:33 +0100
Ciaran McCreesh ciaran.mccre...@googlemail.com wrote:
On Wed, 20 Jun 2012 19:11:33 +0200
hasufell hasuf...@gentoo.org wrote:
On 06/20/2012 07:07 PM, Michał Górny wrote:
Please
breaking user systems.
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Ciaran McCreesh
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discussing Gentoo features,
and official package manager in Gentoo is portage. If you don't
believe me, check out the docs.
And since when was Implemented in Portage a requirement for an EAPI
feature?
The implementation requirement is to avoid REQUIRED_USE-like screwups.
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Ciaran McCreesh
of them got
implemented quickly. Our policy on this has always been ask Zac
whether he thinks they're reasonably quick to implement.
But you know this, so kindly keep your disruption to places where
you're right.
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Ciaran McCreesh
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simultaneously troll both sides of that issue. Weren't
you previously claiming there were too many EAPIs and that we shouldn't
have lots of new ones?
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then they need to learn how.
That's not the issue. The issue is advertising a user patches feature
when there's no way for the user to know up-front whether or not their
patches will be applied. This whole discussion started because user
patches are currently randomly ignored sometimes.
--
Ciaran
On Thu, 21 Jun 2012 07:11:27 -0500
Homer Parker hpar...@gentoo.org wrote:
On Thu, 2012-06-21 at 08:00 +0100, Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
In case you're not aware, the first time Gentoo did multilib, it was
done as a series of random changes to Portage that no-one really
thought through
and technical
writing -- it's not really my cup of tea. But if you have the money,
there are plenty of others who make their livings teaching that sort of
thing.
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request. Your turn
now.
Oh, I think your request is fine, and your results are reasonable. I
just think letting anyone who can say with a straight face that they
should be there be there is a better measure than numbers that don't
tell you anything.
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Ciaran McCreesh
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multilib implementation then you take it up with all the people who are
demanding the PMS team provide them with one.
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about the setup of the environment and the
code details for the wrappers for binaries and headers, hardcoding
those details into PMS makes it hard to change/fix issues later on.
Sounds like you haven't really got a clean design then.
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Ciaran McCreesh
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don't need a bug to track it.
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On Wed, 20 Jun 2012 13:12:25 +0200
Michał Górny mgo...@gentoo.org wrote:
On Wed, 20 Jun 2012 12:02:42 +0100
Ciaran McCreesh ciaran.mccre...@googlemail.com wrote:
Please don't. User patches were discussed on this list, and there's
already wording written. We don't need a bug to track
in the
original thread.
nor any function to actually apply patches...
Moving epatch into EAPI 5 is a separate feature, and one that's
probably going to be controversial.
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Ciaran McCreesh
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On Wed, 20 Jun 2012 17:44:36 +0200
Ulrich Mueller u...@gentoo.org wrote:
On Wed, 20 Jun 2012, Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
I believe we consider the user patches feature to be finalised,
[...]
I disagree with this. As it is currently worded, every ebuild would be
required would be required
for the unlikely case that user patches could be applied?
If the aim is to provide a working feature to users, yes. The
alternative is to not provide user patches support.
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restrict the arguing to
being between SDEPEND and DEPENDENCIES? Cheers.
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, every PM relies heavily upon bash anyway (and can't
easily be made not to), so even if developers would accept having to
rewrite all their eclasses, it still wouldn't remove the dep.
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Ciaran McCreesh
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(on a glibc system)?
Nobody knows, since everyone you ask has a different idea of what
multilib is.
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On Wed, 20 Jun 2012 16:50:33 -0400
Richard Yao r...@gentoo.org wrote:
On 06/20/2012 04:35 PM, Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
On Wed, 20 Jun 2012 16:25:30 -0400 Richard Yao r...@gentoo.org
wrote:
Multilib (and/or multiarch) support The current binaries
source the ebuild... You should take a look at
the amount of horrible bash code the three PMs have, and see why it's
there.
- --
Ciaran McCreesh
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.
General consensus seems to be that it needs a GLEP and a proposed diff
against PMS before anyone can even reasonably pass comment on it, let
alone accept it.
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used to
provide decent handling of blockers etc). Search for group-name in
exheres-for-smarties for an example.
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On Tue, 19 Jun 2012 20:16:39 +0200
Thomas Sachau to...@gentoo.org wrote:
Since there is again no response at all, it seems like everyone is ok
with this, so i will propose to add this to the next council agenda
for EAPI-5 addition.
Got a diff for PMS?
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Ciaran McCreesh
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On Tue, 19 Jun 2012 20:54:07 +0200
Thomas Sachau to...@gentoo.org wrote:
Ciaran McCreesh schrieb:
On Tue, 19 Jun 2012 20:16:39 +0200
Thomas Sachau to...@gentoo.org wrote:
Since there is again no response at all, it seems like everyone is
ok with this, so i will propose to add
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On Sun, 17 Jun 2012 03:35:08 +0200
hasufell hasuf...@gentoo.org wrote:
On 06/16/2012 08:14 PM, Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
Suggested dependencies were used in the old kdebuilds, and Exherbo
makes extensive use of both suggested and recommended
pretty sure we can't go anywhere with this until all the things
that manually access VDB are gone. Can you work on that first?
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On Sun, 17 Jun 2012 22:31:59 +0200
Michał Górny mgo...@gentoo.org wrote:
A simple solution to a program long-unsolved. In GLEP form.
Both attached and published as a gist:
https://gist.github.com/2945569
Do you have an implementation we can play with?
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Ciaran McCreesh
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present the EAPI 5 branch to the Council and have
them vote on each individual feature. Then we'll cherry-pick the ones
they approve to master.
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Ciaran McCreesh
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giving you something approximately related to what you wanted...
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we're trying to solve is far harder than
writing a bit of code.
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thought all the way
through...
Coming up with a solution rather than a description of the problem is
the wrong thing to do.
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Ciaran McCreesh
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them sub-slots instead.
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On Sat, 16 Jun 2012 17:24:22 +0200
Peter Stuge pe...@stuge.se wrote:
Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
Could it work to make automatic signatures of imported ABI, and
simply compare signatures when a provider package is updated?
No.
Can you say why?
There's no way for a program to work out
On Sat, 16 Jun 2012 17:16:34 +0200
Pacho Ramos pa...@gentoo.org wrote:
El sáb, 16-06-2012 a las 15:52 +0100, Ciaran McCreesh escribió:
On Sat, 16 Jun 2012 16:48:20 +0200
Pacho Ramos pa...@gentoo.org wrote:
Regarding the comparison with using only SLOT, the most clear
example of how
that requires developers to put quite
a lot of exta effort in to their packages in order to improve the
quality of experience for users, which means it's not going to be
suitable for Gentoo's development model.
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Ciaran McCreesh
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don't fully understand. Can you give an
example ebuild?
Suggested dependencies were used in the old kdebuilds, and Exherbo
makes extensive use of both suggested and recommended dependencies, so
there are plenty of examples, spec wording and an implementation already
if you want to play.
--
Ciaran
delay before every relevant package is using it.
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Ciaran McCreesh
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On Mon, 11 Jun 2012 13:15:40 +0100
Nirbheek Chauhan nirbh...@gentoo.org wrote:
On Sun, Jun 10, 2012 at 9:49 PM, Ciaran McCreesh
ciaran.mccre...@googlemail.com wrote:
On Sun, 10 Jun 2012 21:45:27 +0100
Nirbheek Chauhan nirbh...@gentoo.org wrote:
It's a simple workaround for the lack
(or any) have some suggestion, it would be
nice :)
It is handled better by working out what exactly the problem is, and if
you can't implement it nicely using existing features, then not
implementing it at all until you have suitable features.
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dependencies if you like, or :2 (which would
match SLOT=2 or SLOT=2/anything), or :2= (which gets rewritten
to :2/2.32=) or :2*. If an ebuild does SLOT=2, it's treated as 2/2.
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Ciaran McCreesh
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-based versions have -r3xx revision numbers and go in
slot 3).
That is not what revisions are for. If you can't solve a problem
properly using existing mechanisms, ask for new ones.
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Ciaran McCreesh
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On Sun, 10 Jun 2012 22:27:07 +0200
hasufell hasuf...@gentoo.org wrote:
On 06/10/2012 10:19 PM, Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
On Sat, 09 Jun 2012 23:54:21 -0400
Alexandre Rostovtsev tetrom...@gentoo.org wrote:
For libraries, if possible, try splitting gtk2 and gtk3 support
into different slots
On Sun, 10 Jun 2012 21:45:27 +0100
Nirbheek Chauhan nirbh...@gentoo.org wrote:
On Sun, Jun 10, 2012 at 9:19 PM, Ciaran McCreesh
ciaran.mccre...@googlemail.com wrote:
On Sat, 09 Jun 2012 23:54:21 -0400
Alexandre Rostovtsev tetrom...@gentoo.org wrote:
For libraries, if possible, try
an implementation, then try converting lots
of ebuilds with and without being able to use ABI_SLOT.
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Ciaran McCreesh
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On Wed, 06 Jun 2012 14:45:55 -0700
Zac Medico zmed...@gentoo.org wrote:
Can you explain how Exherbo is handling dbus-glib rebuilds after
glib:2 updates?
Badly, most likely.
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Ciaran McCreesh
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missing out on a brilliant opportunity to encourage developers
put in a bit more work to save users a huge amount of pain here.
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Ciaran McCreesh
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with it, you can use blockers.
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Ciaran McCreesh
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to an upgrade really shouldn't happen.
It's certainly not ideal, but wouldn't it be useful to have the
flexibility to accommodate it? Let's be practical.
Blockers plus SLOT provides that flexibility.
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Ciaran McCreesh
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On Thu, 07 Jun 2012 10:47:19 -0700
Zac Medico zmed...@gentoo.org wrote:
On 06/06/2012 11:12 PM, Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
On Wed, 06 Jun 2012 14:45:55 -0700
Zac Medico zmed...@gentoo.org wrote:
Can you explain how Exherbo is handling dbus-glib rebuilds after
glib:2 updates?
Badly, most
/pms.git;a=commitdiff;h=f9f7729c047300e1924ad768a49c660e12c2f906;hp=b7750e67b4772c1064543defb7df6a556f09807b
looks like * usage for SLOTs would be allowed :), or I am
misinterpreting it?
It's not a wildcard.
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Ciaran McCreesh
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in a future EAPI.
For the slot-operator case, will every consumer of libpng be forced to
change their dep to libpng:= to ensure they get rebuilt when libpng
bumps from 1.5 to 1.6??
Every consumer of libpng that wants to improve from the current
situation, yes.
- --
Ciaran McCreesh
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and maybe
changing their ABI too :/
The situation for older packages remains the same.
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Ciaran McCreesh
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understand because no-one has
specified what the exact general problem is (although lots of people
have looked at one particular case and assumed that their case holds
for everything, which isn't true).
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Ciaran McCreesh
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on glib:2.30 to
glib:2.32? :O
Noo. You'd use := dependencies, possibly with a = constraint.
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it works, or knows what
exactly it's supposed to do. The only advantage ABI_SLOT has is that we
don't know what its limitations are, other than that it doesn't
solve any new problems (although it might slightly simplify certain
specific cases, maybe).
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Ciaran McCreesh
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to the kind
of knowledge we want to have. Think REQUIRED_USE for how this can go
wrong...
If you think ABI_SLOT is essential, why not try implementing it and
trying it out in a large number of packages, and reporting your results?
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Ciaran McCreesh
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having mass breakages and annoyances on user systems, even if
it means more work for developers. Broken linkage due to an upgrade
really shouldn't happen.
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, it was supposed to be only for *important* messages,
but nearly everything sent to it now is a waste of users' time.
Perhaps the solution is to implement an ethisisimportanthonestlog
function, and require developers to get approval before using it, as
per news items.
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Ciaran McCreesh
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for the problem, and have
received extensive testing both on Gentoo (with the old KDE packages)
and elsewhere. Why not just go with those plus blockers initially, and
then add in ABI_SLOT only if it turns out that developers really can't
handle using SLOT correctly?
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Ciaran McCreesh
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the problem was.
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Ciaran McCreesh
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On Mon, 04 Jun 2012 22:52:25 +0200
Andreas K. Huettel dilfri...@gentoo.org wrote:
No. What is signed is the new data plus the parent hash(es).
No such thing as a tree hash.
http://eagain.net/articles/git-for-computer-scientists/
Might clear things up a bit.
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Ciaran McCreesh
to master which would make the history clean.
So what's the point of switching to git if you want to ban the main
reason git exists?
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Ciaran McCreesh
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that on in a controlled way in EAPI 6. Having
said that, if we're reaching the point where speed of bash code is
at all relevant, then ebuilds are doing something wrong...
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Ciaran McCreesh
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: the (public) superclasses of a class are part of
its API.
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branches are just about as cheap as git branches,
[citation needed]
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-patches or merge requests is a great way of
reducing developer workload.
- --
Ciaran McCreesh
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fine with udev?
I dunno. Internet Explorer broke and now udev won't run.
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no former eclass sets
its own LICENSE).
That's definitely not going to work if the 'inherit' comes at the top
of the ebuild, and is severely dodgy if it doesn't...
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the
issue under discussion here is that tight coupling and vertical
integration means we are in effect forced to use rather a lot of
software that we would prefer not to.
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, there are always alternatives.
That's a somewhat disingenuous claim when the alternatives are moving
steadily towards don't use Linux at all or use the full GnomeOS
stack.
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people come up
with to get around its inexpressivity.
I propose:
REQUIRED_USE=== ( qt webkit )
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Ciaran McCreesh
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On Mon, 7 May 2012 20:26:08 +0200
Ulrich Mueller u...@gentoo.org wrote:
REQUIRED_USE=^^ ( webkit !qt )
Please provide an algorithm that will turn that into an appropriate
error message for displaying to a user.
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to read.
Forget easier to read. The important part is being able to produce
error messages for users.
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Ciaran McCreesh
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packages
that have an emboss use flag, are those people likely to want emboss?.
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Ciaran McCreesh
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On Fri, 4 May 2012 18:02:05 -0700
Greg KH gre...@gentoo.org wrote:
And what are you going to do when dbus moves into the kernel itself
(hint, it will be there soon)?
Why stop at dbus? Why isn't libxml2 in the kernel yet?
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Ciaran McCreesh
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On Sat, 28 Apr 2012 10:52:07 +0200
Michał Górny mgo...@gentoo.org wrote:
On Fri, 27 Apr 2012 21:12:27 +0100
Ciaran McCreesh ciaran.mccre...@googlemail.com wrote:
* Get a versionator replacement into the PM
Why are we trying to make PM a brick instead of keeping stuff modular?
What does
On Sat, 28 Apr 2012 10:09:01 +
Francesco Riosa viv...@gmail.com wrote:
What's changed from 2006 in version handling?
The ordering rules, the handling of zeroes and the behaviour of
suffixes.
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Ciaran McCreesh
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and package.use.force,
except that the resulting rules are ONLY applied iff a stable keyword
is in use
This means that an ebuild will effectively change when moved from ~arch
to arch. The point of ~arch is to test ebuilds before they're moved to
arch.
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Ciaran McCreesh
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