Re: [gentoo-dev] Nominations open for the Gentoo Council 2007/08

2007-07-11 Thread Christel Dahlskjaer
On Wed, 2007-07-04 at 01:04 +, Blackace wrote:
 I'd like to nominate:
 
 vapier
 tsunam
 nightmorph
 seemant
 avenj
 christel

Thank you for the nomination! I would be delighted to stand, and do
indeed accept. And hope that if elected I can help make Gentoo a better
place, both for developers and the wider community.

Christel


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Re: [gentoo-dev] Nominations open for the Gentoo Council 2007/08

2007-07-11 Thread Christel Dahlskjaer
I'd like to nominate Marien Zwarts (marienz) for the Council 2007/2008.

I believe he would make an excellent council member, not only does he
have the technical smarts necessary to help give the council the
technical spine it needs, but he also has incredible skills when it
comes to people management and interacting with other members of the
community.

Christelx



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Re: [gentoo-dev] What's it about, anyway?

2007-06-05 Thread Christel Dahlskjaer
On Wed, 2007-06-06 at 00:33 +0200, Tobias Klausmann wrote:
 Hi!
major snippage

Tobias, 

I just wanted to say that I feel you raised some very valid points and
your e-mail was pretty good! 

Thanks for taking the time to write it.

Christel


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Re: Retiring (Was Re: [gentoo-dev] Living in a bubble [gentoo-proctor] Warning^2)

2007-06-05 Thread Christel Dahlskjaer
On Tue, 2007-06-05 at 15:43 -0600, Jason Wever wrote:
 -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
 Hash: SHA1
 
 On Tue, 5 Jun 2007, Wernfried Haas wrote:
 
  So far we have temporarily suspended both ciaran's and geoman's account
  from posting and encourage everyone to do as Roy initially suggested.
 
 Regardless of whether their postings are viewed as useful or not, this 
 action has gone too far in my opinion.  As Gentoo now appears to condone 
 this type of behavior when dealing with what are perceived to be 
 problems, I no longer wish to be a part of Gentoo.
 
 While at this point there is very little chance of anyone convincing me to 
 return, I hope that the people who can still derive enjoyment from Gentoo 
 continue to do so.
 
 Infra, please remove my accounts at your earliest convenience.

Thank you for the work you've put into Gentoo Jason, and for the chance
I've had to get to know you. I have a great deal of respect for you and
I wish you all the best for the future. Don't be a stranger.

Christelx


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Re: [gentoo-dev] Bye Gentoo!

2007-06-05 Thread Christel Dahlskjaer
On Thu, 2007-05-31 at 03:35 +0200, Bryan Østergaard wrote:
 It's with a bit of sadness but also a bit of relief that I'm finally
 retiring from
 Gentoo.
 
 I've been a Gentoo developer for nearly 4 years now and I like to at least
 pretend that I've made some important contributions to Gentoo during that
 time. I've had a lot of fun but my frustrations have grown these past several
 months and I've been entertaining the idea about retiring from Gentoo for
 probably 6 months now. The past couple months the desire to leave Gentoo have
 become much stronger and I think it's finally time for me and Gentoo to go our
 separate ways.
 
 I think I've put my fingerprint on Gentoo in quite a few important ways but
 lately I've come to the realization that I probably can't do any more for
 Gentoo. No matter how hard I try fighting for what I feel is right we seem to
 end up with petty fights, flamewars or what I consider even worse - people
 simply ignore what I'm working hard towards.
 
 So I think it's high time that I leave the project and start looking for
 another project where I can contribute something important and not just try to
 keep afloat in a project that I seem to be at odds with to an ever
 increasing degree.
 
 I'll try to reach all the projects I'm leaving over the next few days and see
 if I can pass on my work in a reasonable manner. I probably won't be around
 much on irc but if you really need to contact me you can do so at
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
 Good luck to all of you and may Gentoo development be as much fun for you as
 it used to be for me.

Bryan, 
It's been a pleasure working with you and getting to know you this past
year and a half. I've learnt a lot and you've been a rock, you've been
inspirational and motivational.. You've been a great mentor in many
aspects and an amazing friend. 

I look forward to working with you further on the other two OSS projects
we are involved with together and I hope you made the right decision
when you chose to step down.

Christelx


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[gentoo-dev] Conflict Resolution Project Member Changes

2007-06-05 Thread Christel Dahlskjaer
Hiya all, 

I've had three new people join the conflict resolution sub project of
devrel over the last couple of weeks.

Chrissy Fulham aka musikc
Deedra Waters aka dmwaters
Michael Marineau aka marineam

I'm glad to have them onboard and they've already convinced me that
adding them to the team was a wise decision!

In light of the recent resignations of some Gentoo developers, the
project has lost some of its conflict resolution board members and an
update with replacements will follow shortly.

Kind Regards, 
Christel


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[gentoo-dev] Re: Gentoo Foundation Mentor

2007-04-12 Thread Christel Dahlskjaer
Hiya Arockiasamy, 

Thank you for your email and congratulations on being selected for
Summer of Code this year.

I'm Christel, one of the SoC administrators for Gentoo. I will be
e-mailing all accepted students over the next few hours with
information.

Until then, take care and I am sure we will speak real soon!

Christel

On Thu, 2007-04-12 at 22:33 +0530, Arockiasamy Mohanraj wrote:
 Hi,
 
 I happy, that I was assigned as mentor for GSoC 2007 application
 titled archfs: Filesystem in userspace for rdiff-backup
 repositories, proposed by Filip Gruszczyński. Actually, i am not
 member of Gentoo Fountation. Can you help me to get the contacts and
 further needful information like Gentoo Resources which can be used
 for complete the SoC successfully. 
 
 My Full Name  : Arockiasamy Mohanraj
 Google Account: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
 Thanks a lot,
 aksamy


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Re: [gentoo-dev] Proposed addition to the Social Contract

2007-03-25 Thread Christel Dahlskjaer
On Sun, 2007-03-25 at 04:54 -0400, Mike Frysinger wrote:
 On Saturday 24 March 2007, Christel Dahlskjaer wrote:
  It looks like our social contract doesn't prohibit Gentoo from being
  dependent upon a single sponsor or corporation. In the interests of
  keeping Gentoo run by the developers rather than any outside party, how
  about the following addition to the Social Contract?
 
  headingWe will be run by the Development Community/
  Gentoo will be run by the development community. We will never allow
  ourselves to be reliant upon a single sponsor or corporation.
 
 i dont see why this is required ?  ignoring the fact that the wording is way 
 too vague to do anything but cause confusion and people to spout long winded 
 rants, seems like useless nitpicking about an issue that doesnt exist

Supposedly 80% of our stuff is hosted in one building, where would we
find ourselves were this building to building to burn to the ground? Get
flooded? 


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Re: [gentoo-dev] Proposed addition to the Social Contract

2007-03-25 Thread Christel Dahlskjaer
On Sun, 2007-03-25 at 09:27 -0400, Mike Frysinger wrote:
 On Sunday 25 March 2007, Christel Dahlskjaer wrote:
  On Sun, 2007-03-25 at 04:54 -0400, Mike Frysinger wrote:
   On Saturday 24 March 2007, Christel Dahlskjaer wrote:
It looks like our social contract doesn't prohibit Gentoo from being
dependent upon a single sponsor or corporation. In the interests of
keeping Gentoo run by the developers rather than any outside party, how
about the following addition to the Social Contract?
   
headingWe will be run by the Development Community/
Gentoo will be run by the development community. We will never allow
ourselves to be reliant upon a single sponsor or corporation.
  
   i dont see why this is required ?  ignoring the fact that the wording is
   way too vague to do anything but cause confusion and people to spout long
   winded rants, seems like useless nitpicking about an issue that doesnt
   exist
 
  Supposedly 80% of our stuff is hosted in one building, where would we
  find ourselves were this building to building to burn to the ground? Get
  flooded?
 
 and how does writing a vague rule into our Social Contract propose to help 
 the 
 situation ?  just because we have a rule that says our infrastructure needs 
 to be spread out among sponsors doesnt mean sponsors are going to materialize 
 out of nowhere to make this happen
 
 our machines live where people have been so kind as to offer 
 space/electricity/bandwidth/etc...

I was simply suggesting that perhaps we need to try make sure that when
we able to we try ensure that we aren't too reliant upon one single
fascility.  Perhaps bad wording.




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Re: [gentoo-dev] Proposed addition to the Social Contract

2007-03-25 Thread Christel Dahlskjaer
On Sun, 2007-03-25 at 16:47 -0400, Mike Frysinger wrote:
 On Saturday 24 March 2007, Christel Dahlskjaer wrote:
  It looks like our social contract doesn't prohibit Gentoo from being
  dependent upon a single sponsor or corporation. In the interests of
  keeping Gentoo run by the developers rather than any outside party, how
  about the following addition to the Social Contract?
 
  headingWe will be run by the Development Community/
  Gentoo will be run by the development community. We will never allow
  ourselves to be reliant upon a single sponsor or corporation.
 
 i think this whole idea is a moot point anyways ... go visit the Gentoo 
 Foundation web site and see Chapter 2 Section 5

And how exactly does this help us in the event of say the OSL burning
down or the GNi suffering flooding? :)

My point was simply that I think we would be wise to research whether
there is the possibility of spreading our critical infrastructure a bit
better so that in the event of an Act of God or suchlike we wouldn't
find ourselves losing everything to, say, water damage. 

I agree, adding a line to the social contract won't magically send our
servers across the world and into the homes^Wdatacenters of hundreds of
wonderful new sponsors. Would be nice if it did though!


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[gentoo-dev] Proposed addition to the Social Contract

2007-03-24 Thread Christel Dahlskjaer
It looks like our social contract doesn't prohibit Gentoo from being
dependent upon a single sponsor or corporation. In the interests of
keeping Gentoo run by the developers rather than any outside party, how
about the following addition to the Social Contract?

headingWe will be run by the Development Community/
Gentoo will be run by the development community. We will never allow
ourselves to be reliant upon a single sponsor or corporation.


-- 
I remain, Sir, your most humble and obedient servant,
Christel - conventionally stuck in the 1920s



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[gentoo-dev] Summer of Code 2007

2007-03-16 Thread Christel Dahlskjaer
Hiya all, 

It is that time of the year again, and we have yet once more been
accepted as a mentoring organisation for SoC. 

Interested mentors (current Gentoo developers) should fill in the mentor
application (link sent to -core). Interested mentors, co-mentors, people
with project ideas and prospective students are encouraged to sign up to
the [EMAIL PROTECTED] ML as well as joining the #gentoo-soc
IRC channel on irc.freenode.net

TTFN, 
Christel


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Re: [gentoo-dev] Introducing the Proctors - Draft Code of Conduct for Gentoo

2007-03-13 Thread Christel Dahlskjaer
Hi again.
Thank you all for your input so far, which I will evaluate together with
my trusted mentourage, er, the council.  I'd just like to clarify a
couple of things that seem to have left a few of you confused:

1. The Proctors is not a Userrel Sub project. The Code of Conduct would
apply to everyone choosing to participate in the community, developers
and users alike.

2. The Proctors is not a new name for Devrel. They would fall under
Devrel territory, but as a newly formed group under the leadership and
supervision of the Council. A decision as to numbers and electing
proctors has not yet been reached -- we are working out these details as
we speak. (My suggestion here is to select a group of people from a wide
variety of backgrounds within Gentoo, taking care to avoid 'old boys
clubs' and cliques)

3. The proctors would be given the access required to execute any
suspensions or similar actions.

4. By Gentoo fora/Official Communication Channels we refer to all
official channels of communication; MLs, IRC, Forums, IM, Bugzilla etc.
(This does NOT mean we are replacing guidelines for sub-fora -- the CoC
would be in addition to IRC and Forum guidelines).

5. The CoC would replace the current etiquette policy in the devrel
handbook.

6. We intentionally choose to leave the CoC somewhat vague in places,
simply as we'd never finish were we to list every hypoethetical offense
someone could make.

7. It is up to the proctors and the Council to decide on how to best
deal with appeals and suchlike.

8. I am not a proctor, nor am I guaranteed a seat as a proctor should
this proposal be voted in by the Council. Nor am I infallible, and your
continued feedback is important to us and the development of Gentoo's
future Code of Conduct.  I also understand that the timeframe for
peer-review is shorter than what you have all expected (and wished for),
and I fully understand the annoyance in regards to this. It's shorter
than what we had originally aimed for.

Kind Regards,
Christel (who would have asked the foundation for funding to hire
leather clad kung-fu fighter babes and called them Christel's Angels
were it all up to her)



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[gentoo-dev] Introducing the Proctors - Draft Code of Conduct for Gentoo

2007-03-12 Thread Christel Dahlskjaer
Hiya all, 

As some of you are already aware, I was at the last Council meeting
given a Task. This Task was to draft a proposed Code of Conduct for
Gentoo, and a scheme for enforcing it. The current version of this
proposal can be found at http://dev.gentoo.org/~christel/coc.xml
comments and suggestions both on- and off-list are appreciated.

Any input will have to be received by Thursday, 15 March, 1200GMT in
order to be useful; the Council will be voting on it later that day at
2100UTC.

I would like to thank a few people for their help in getting it to this
stage: the council for review, spb for translating Christelsk into
English (with the help of the OED), nightmorph for making it look
prettier than plain text in vim (without a fancy colourscheme), and
marienz for being sane and reading it over. 

I'd also like to thank our Infrastructure team for working with us and
answering questions regarding the mechanics of enforcing such a code.

Christelx

-- 
$a=gentoo.org; Christel Dahlskjaer | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | www.$a 
Gentoo Developeress - User Relations, Developer Relations, Gentoo/MIPS, QA, 
Gentoo/Alpha, PR, Events, Release Engineering, Conflict Resolution, Recruitment


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Re: [gentoo-dev] Google Summer of Code 2007

2007-02-19 Thread Christel Dahlskjaer
On Fri, 2007-02-16 at 19:14 +0100, Rémi Cardona wrote:
 Luca Barbato wrote:
  ffmpeg got just vc-1 working as should, all the other code got somewhat
  halfway, mostly because we expected a lot. (amr and ac3 seems to have
  something alive, aac isn't something that good)
  
  The Gentoo results aren't that bad on the average, we got something,
  sadly not yet finalized properly.
  
  That said I think the experience was good and we should try to get into
  this other round with the experience of the past summer =)
 
 To complement the both of you, how about proposing projects to 2
 students at the same time and have them work as a team?

Not allowed, atleast not in previous years SoC.

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Re: [gentoo-dev] Google Summer of Code 2007

2007-02-19 Thread Christel Dahlskjaer
On Fri, 2007-02-16 at 17:35 +0100, Diego 'Flameeyes' Pettenò wrote:
 On Friday 16 February 2007, Grant Goodyear wrote:
  So, is there support among devs for hosting another round of Summer
  students?  Are there good problems for those students to work on, and,
  if so, what are they?  Were people happy with how last year's program
  went, or should we try to do something different?  For what it's worth,
  I think GSOC is worth putting our effort into, but I'd also like to see
  projects that at least have the potential to benefit more of the
  community than just Gentoo.  *Shrug*
 
 Although last summer I wasn't too involved in the process (I was backup 
 mentor 
 for a couple of projects, but there was no need for a backup mentor for any 
 of them, and I also passed the august offline), I did think with myself of a 
 few issues with what SoC did for Gentoo (and the other way around too).
 
 Out of the 14 projects listed in [1], these are the (public) results:
 
 - I don't know of any GUI frontend to baselayout;
 - Antarus's work on CVS migration produced some interesting results, but as 
 we 
 know, the migration isn't possible just yet;
 - blubb's etc-update replacement is sort of complete, I wasn't able to get it 
 to work yet, but at least blubb is still around;
 - Gentoo/FreeBSD/AMD64 port is deadish, Victor disappeared for what I can 
 tell, there weren't many patches that were followed till merge, and there's 
 no near hope to get amd64-fbsd working in short time;
 - I have no clue what's going on with gentoo-stats;
 - Pioto's dynusers (now creandus, I think) is still work in progress, since 
 starting, pioto became a dev;
 - I have no clue what's going on with the web-based GuideXML frontend;
 - JACK support hasn't moved a bit, if possible it became worse because of 
 bitrot, as the student dropped off;
 - I have no clue what's going on with NetworkManager, but it might actually 
 have seen some work on it, considering it's now in portage, but 
 metalgod/steev would probably know better;
 - I don't know what happened to qaludis, nor I care to be honest as it's an 
 external project;
 - I don't know what happened to pkgcore, nor I care to be honest as it's an 
 external project;
 - Alex completed Gentoo/FreeBSD port of Sandbox, although Martin disappeared 
 and thus we're forced to unmask sandbox on our profiles for now, and in the 
 mean time he also fixed some FreeBSD bugs;
 - I have no clue what's going on with SCIRE;
 - I have no clue what's going on with the Xorg configuration too.
 
 I admit I cannot of course judge all the progress, as you can see I have no 
 clue on about half the projects, but that also means there wasn't a big new 
 feature or fix that everybody knows about.
 So maybe, the targets we put were too much fuzzy, and difficult to achieve. 
 Of 
 course there's also the big unknown of the students, that we can't easily 
 judge if we don't know them.
 
 This covers one point, but what most interest me to point out is that we have 
 a real low conversion of developers. What I found interesting in the Summer 
 of Code initiative was the ability to find new developers for a project, 
 people that wouldn't have been involved in open sources projects otherwise.
 
 We enrolled as students four Gentoo developers, and only one of the 
 remaining ten students was converted into a dev.

Actually, I believe we gained four new developers as a result of Summer
of Code last year...



-- 
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[gentoo-dev] Summer of Code - worth repeating?

2007-02-19 Thread Christel Dahlskjaer
Hiya all, 

Let's do a quick re-cap of Summer of Code '06:

Gentoo had 14 project slots, out of these fourteen two were on Gentoo
external Gentoo project which I will leave out of the re-cap.

That leaves us with twelve projects, four of which were being worked on
by at the time current Gentoo developers. Leaving us eight newcomers,
out of these eight four has been recruited and I belicve an additional
one is in the recruitment queue. 

Some of the projects have been picked up and are being worked on daily,
some we've had problems getting acceptance for from the projects where
they would be most suited (Beacon - GDP), and some may have fizzled off
and died when SoC ended (be that because the student were no longer
involved and didn't feel that they were welcomed into the community
post-soc, or be that because it just didn't end up being a small idea
turned explosion). 

Summer of Code 2006 was thrown together practically overnight, we jumped
onboard after the deadline, by pure luck, and due to lack of planning
ended up with whatever projects people could think up in no time and
what mentors felt comfortable mentoring at said time. 

Based on the timeframe and having to jump into the deep end I'd say SoC
was a tremendous success for us, not least as a recruitment tool. And of
course, it feels great to put something back into the community. 

Summer of Code '07 is about to kick off, those of us who participated in
one form or another last year are pretty geared up to do it again. This
time around we've got a chance to plan better, apply in time..  

Should we SoC? Of course we should! Can we think up projects? Do we have
willing mentors? Will Google have us once more? (with feeling)

Summer of Code itself should be a lot more organised this year, OSPO has
put a fair chunk of work into getting things up to speed and has
listened to the feedback of both students and mentoring organisations
from last year. 

-- Christel



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[gentoo-dev] Update from User Relations wrt User Representatives.

2006-12-03 Thread Christel Dahlskjaer
As of Friday 17th November, George Prowse, known to most as cokehabit,
has left the Gentoo User Relations project and his position as User
Representative. Regrettably, as things turned out, he did not fit the
role as well as many had hoped, and it was decided that it would be in
everyone's best interests to part ways. We would like to thank George
for his time and work as a user representative, and wish him luck in his
future endeavours.

On a related note, it was resolved at a meeting between User Relations and 
the User Representatives on December 2nd, 2006 to instate Alex Bokag aka 
djay-il as the eleventh and last User Representative. This motion passed 
unanimously and Alex accepted the position with immediate effect. 
We welcome Alex onboard and look forward to working closely with him over the 
next year.

On behalf of User Relations, 
Christel Dahlskjaer.


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Re: [gentoo-dev] Call For Interest: Scale5x

2006-10-31 Thread Christel Dahlskjaer
On Tue, 2006-10-31 at 14:36 -0800, Chris White wrote:
 Scale5X announcement just hit my inbox, so away we go.  Scale 5X will be 
 taking place at:
 
 http://www.starwoodhotels.com/westin/property/overview/index.html?propertyID=1005
 
 The Westin Los Angeles Airport from Feb. 10-11 2007 (That's a 
 Saturday/Sunday).  I had strong plans on going, but with recent project 
 deadlines being shifted around, I'm not sure if I'll be able to attend.  
 However I'd like to pass on information if we have people willing to do the 
 boothing stuff.
 
 I'll try and get more information together soon.  The physical 
 specifications, 
 etc. of the booths were given pretty late last year, but I'll try and find 
 out if they have some remote idea.

Ah, sorry!
Graham, the community coordinator for Scale already asked us to be
present some while back and I said 'Ya.'   

I know myself, nightmorph, probably omp, perhaps spb atleast are
intending to man the booth. :)




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Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: seeds, GLEPs, and projects

2006-09-24 Thread Christel Dahlskjaer
On Thu, 2006-09-21 at 21:43 +, Peter wrote:
 On Thu, 21 Sep 2006 17:01:02 -0400, Mike Pagano wrote:
snip

Since you mentioned my name in your e-mail I figured I had something to
do with the delay on your becoming a developer, however, having
consulted bugzilla I find that this is not the case. Rather the
opposite, you requested that your bug be closed, which I presume means
that you decided you no longer had a wish to become a Gentoo developer. 

It is no secret however that the recruiters were struggling to keep up,
and still are to some extent, despite having recruited more recruiters
(my, that was a awkward sentence). As for delays, I can only speak for
those recruits assigned to myself, and there's no great time delays for
either of them. I generally opt for about a month from I pick them up
until I expect them  to be ready to interview and discuss their quizzes.
I currently am awaiting quizzes from a couple, and have a couple of
others who are marked and held up only by me waiting for them to get
back to me with a suitable time for us to sit down and go through their
quizzes in more of an informal interview style. My new recruits I
believe are happy, or atleast it would appear so from our talks
throughout their first months of devship. 

On occasion it may be difficult to arrange a time to sit down together,
be it due to time zone differences or trying to fit it in to both the
recruit and the recruiters otherwise busy schedule. As I am sure you've
heard many a time already, we all volunteer our time for Gentoo, and we
all work on other projects besides recruitment. This means that we can't
necessarily walk out of anything else we may be doing to sit down with
someone as and when they request it. Not only is availability affected
by other Gentoo projects, but also factors such as work, husbands,
wives, children, other hobbies and commitments taking up varying amounts
of time. I know I am having a tremendously busy time at the moment as I
am in the process of moving, changing careers, spending a lot of time on
one of my other projects due to the unexpected death of one of my
colleagues and friends. And sure, in my case this means that instead of
being able to tell a recruit that we can chat in  ten minutes I may ask
them that we talk in two days time at $rand o' clock, but this has not
been a problem so far. 

I guess, another factor is attitude, Gentoo doesn't pay enough for us to
sit around and take abuse, wait, it doesn't pay at all.. and so we are
less likely to expedite the process for someone who comes across as rude
and demanding. Generally speaking, I would spend more time with someone
who asked rather than demanded. And someone who discussed rather than
threw tantrums. 

Again, there's nothing stopping anyone from contributing while they are
waiting, you don't need a @gentoo.org e-mail address to fix bugs, and
for the most part the mentors are more than happy to proxy stuff on
their recruits behalf while they are waiting.  

Anyhow, it's 2.30am, I was looking over quizzes and then I shall head to
bed.




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Re: [gentoo-dev] Last rites for www-apps/drupal

2006-09-11 Thread Christel Dahlskjaer
On Mon, 2006-09-11 at 11:01 -0400, Alec Warner wrote:
 Stuart Herbert wrote:
  On 9/11/06, Jakub Moc [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  Uhm, web-apps has been CCed on the bug since the beginning. Last time I
  asked, noone wanted to touch the FUBARed ebuild, IIRC. :)
  
  The package was masked without Christel (on behalf of QA) posting an
  advance warning of their actions.  That's not trying to work together.
  It's not trying to work with existing teams.
 
 So file a complaint; once again the -dev list shouldn't be for 
 complaining about how people {suck,don't follow policy}

I actually second Stuart on this one, I should have contacted web-apps
and believe that we should make it procedure to do so in the future.
That was my mistake entirely. 


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Re: [gentoo-dev] Last rites for www-apps/drupal

2006-09-11 Thread Christel Dahlskjaer
On Sat, 2006-09-09 at 21:25 +0100, Christel Dahlskjaer wrote:
 Drupal has had QA bug #98542 open for over a year now, and has seen no
 progress in resolving it. It has now been package.masked, and unless
 someone jumps up to fix the outstanding issues will be removed in 30
 days.

Er, as someone just pointed out on IRC, the bug is
http://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=98524 not 98542 as I first said.
Sorry!


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[gentoo-dev] New Developer - Vlastimil Babka

2006-09-09 Thread Christel Dahlskjaer
Bordering with Germany, Austria, Slovakia and Poland you find the Czech
Republic, smack bang in the centre you find Prague, one of my all time
favourite places to go for a long weekend of cheap beer and much fun.
Beer isn't all that comes out of this place though, they also make
mighty fine Gentoo developers! As of today, the Java team has a new
member; Vlastimil Babka aka Caster. 24 years old, CompSci student at the
Charles University of Prague. Well, I say new, in actual facts he has
been contributing for quite some time.

His first love was a Commodore 64, these days, however, he splits his
time between his girlfriend and playing around with experimental kernels
for the MIPS processor. He likes decent music, nice food, movies,
japanese culture (although he's into his japanese movies and anime it
may disappoint antarus to find that he doesn't particulary like j-pop),
he goes skiing, reads sci-fi and starts his day with a good dosage of
webcomics.  

So, make sure you all welcome him onboard, and as he's Czech, I figure
the beer is on him..


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[gentoo-dev] Last rites for www-apps/drupal

2006-09-09 Thread Christel Dahlskjaer
Drupal has had QA bug #98542 open for over a year now, and has seen no
progress in resolving it. It has now been package.masked, and unless
someone jumps up to fix the outstanding issues will be removed in 30
days.


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Re: [gentoo-dev] Last rites for www-apps/drupal

2006-09-09 Thread Christel Dahlskjaer
On Sat, 2006-09-09 at 12:32 -0700, Donnie Berkholz wrote:
 Christel Dahlskjaer wrote:
  Drupal has had QA bug #98542 open for over a year now, and has seen no
  progress in resolving it. It has now been package.masked, and unless
  someone jumps up to fix the outstanding issues will be removed in 30
  days.
 
 In the future, could you please CC the maintainers on these kinds of
 notices? They may fade into the noise on -dev.

The maintainer obviously recieved the e-mail from bugzilla, I'd hope
that would be enough. But certainly, I'll try remember that and ask that
the rest of the team does too.


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Re: [gentoo-dev] Trustees Announcement

2006-09-05 Thread Christel Dahlskjaer
On Tue, 2006-09-05 at 12:24 -0400, Seemant Kulleen wrote:
 Dear All,
 
 Trustees voting did actually finish over a month ago.  It's high time
 for the official announcement.  This year's Board of Trustees for the
 Gentoo Foundation has been reduced to 5 people, instead of 13.  That was
 something we wanted a vote on, in addition to the regular board,
 however, only 5 people were nominated.  Thus, they formed the new board:
 
 I present to you, then, the new Board of Trustees:
 
 Chris Gianelloni (wolf31o2)
 Grant Goodyear (g2boojum)
 Stuart Herbert (stuart)
 Seemant Kulleen (seemant)
 Renat Lumpau (rl03)

Welcome and good luck to both new and old trustees :)


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[gentoo-dev] What would Freud say? New developer; Mike Kelly!

2006-09-05 Thread Christel Dahlskjaer
Hailing from Pittsburgh, PA, the cognitive science department at
Carnegie Mellon University comes Mike Kelly aka pioto. Already known by
some of us from his excellent work on dynusers[1] during this years
Summer of Code he now comes onboard to put it in the tree and
maintaining it, apart from having implemented GLEP 27 he has previously
contributed some ebuilds, such as net-im/zephyr. He'll no doubt take up
some more interesting stuff besides dynusers, that is, if he finds time.
Although he is taking a gap year before returning as a fourth year
student at CMU he keeps busy by doing watersports. Yes, watersports. I
took a double take at that one, before realising he was talking about
water polo and swimming. He comes prepared, Boy Scout and all! 

I of course am most thrilled to find that we've another developer with a
keen interest in the human brain, he may not be able to read your mind
but he does speak bash, C, C++, Java, Perl and some sml. 

So yeah, buy him a pint and welcome him onboard!

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Re: [gentoo-dev] What would Freud say? New developer; Mike Kelly!

2006-09-05 Thread Christel Dahlskjaer
On Wed, 2006-09-06 at 01:22 +0100, Christel Dahlskjaer wrote:
 Hailing from Pittsburgh, PA, the cognitive science department at
 Carnegie Mellon University comes Mike Kelly aka pioto. Already known by
 some of us from his excellent work on dynusers[1] during this years
 Summer of Code he now comes onboard to put it in the tree and
 maintaining it, apart from having implemented GLEP 27 he has previously
 contributed some ebuilds, such as net-im/zephyr. He'll no doubt take up
 some more interesting stuff besides dynusers, that is, if he finds time.
 Although he is taking a gap year before returning as a fourth year
 student at CMU he keeps busy by doing watersports. Yes, watersports. I
 took a double take at that one, before realising he was talking about
 water polo and swimming. He comes prepared, Boy Scout and all! 
 
 I of course am most thrilled to find that we've another developer with a
 keen interest in the human brain, he may not be able to read your mind
 but he does speak bash, C, C++, Java, Perl and some sml. 
 
 So yeah, buy him a pint and welcome him onboard!

As hparker pointed out, I'm a ditzy bint and didn't link to [1], you can
check out his SoC stuff over at:
http://www.pioto.org/~pioto/gentoo/soc2006/


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Re: [gentoo-dev] The Gentoo Project proudly presents *drums* anigel *applaud*

2006-09-04 Thread Christel Dahlskjaer
On Mon, 2006-09-04 at 13:06 +0200, Sven Vermeulen wrote:
 Yes indeed my best audience, Gentoo now has a new developer in town. His
 name? Not important. His function? Not important either. His looks? Ugly as
 hell... why we want him? Because I am fond of french wifes, and he has one.
 
 Yes indeed my best audience, anigel is a Frenchie, a Limougeaud to be
 exact (which is an inhabitant of Limoges, the préfecture of the Haute-Vienne
 département). Stupefied? I know I am. And not only does he have a wife, he
 also has dinner for vapier - a beautiful young cat. 
 
 Yes indeed my best audience, he is an animal lover. Fits right in. Jforman
 has another goatsitter and this one wont drive to jforman's house. No, he'll
 ride his bike to it.
 
 Yes indeed, my best audience, anigel seems to have a good condition. While
 most of us have long saluted their bike before they turned 26, anigel still
 loves to cycle through the woods, or just walking, looking for mushrooms.
 
 Err, wait a minute! Mushrooms !?!
 
 Aaarghh, what kind of freak did I introduce here? Another one for the pile
 of nuts in which we can find seemant, g2boojum and dsd. So now the nut pile
 has been extended with Hubert Mercier, a French Forum Administrator who in
 real life administers Unix systems. 
 
 At least there's one sane property on this guy - he doesn't like the Perl
 language. And for that alone I disregard his mushroom incident... as long as
 he doesn't think he sees Larry fly.

Welcome onboard anigel! And as always, a Swift intro made me chuckle,
well done Sven.



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Re: [gentoo-dev] Paid support

2006-09-03 Thread Christel Dahlskjaer
On Sun, 2006-09-03 at 00:31 +0200, Ioannis Aslanidis wrote:
 Stuart Herbert wrote:
  Hi,
  
  We'll also need to sort out a process for handling complaints against
  developers from the folks they help.  Doesn't matter how well we make
  it clear that these folks are independent; their actions will
  reflect on Gentoo as a whole, and unhappy customers _will_ complain to
  us sooner or later.  Rather than pretent it won't happen, better we're
  pro-active and have something prepared.
 
 That's a very smart thought. Let's do it.

+1


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Re: [gentoo-dev] Gentoo 2006.1

2006-09-03 Thread Christel Dahlskjaer
On Sun, 2006-09-03 at 10:36 -0400, Alec Warner wrote:
 Stuart Herbert wrote:
  On 9/3/06, Alec Warner [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  And no one has implemented any kind of solution.
  
  You need someone to implement a solution?  Surely what we need is for
  folks to actually make an announcement in the first place?
  
  I asked for what has become GLEP 42 because we do have a problem
  reaching folks with announcements.  But you know what?  GLEP 42
  wouldn't help in cases like this, where there's either no announcement
  at all, or the announcement comes at the last minute.
  
  Technology is just a tool.  A technical solution needs something fed
  into it.
 
 I never specified that the solution had to be technical in nature ;)
 
 We have the Gentoo Status project, but it's been rather dead lately.  We
 have PR, but they are more concerned with the release; in the end
 GCC-4.1 going stable is up to releng and arch teams (heck it doesn't
 technically have to go stable on all arches).  So who screwed up in
 this case?

Actually, we spent a fair amount of time talking about Gentoo Status in
yesterdays meeting and how to move forwards with that. As for PR, after
the Userrel + PR merge we have more manpower, and we're not concerned
with just the release. Hell, as far as the release goes, PR for that is
done by the Releng team and their PR coordinator. Don't assume that PR
isn't interested, but we can't read minds and if people don't keep us in
the loop then chances are we miss stuff that could be news worthy. 


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[gentoo-dev] Paludis version 0.6.0

2006-08-31 Thread Christel Dahlskjaer
Hiya all, 

Just a quick note to let you know that the Paludis guys are happy to
inform you that they've just released version 0.6.0 of Paludis, the most
popular and widely used alternative to Portage. With this release
they're finally more or less VDB compatible with Portage, so switching
to and from Paludis is considerably more likely to work.

Paludis works with the normal ebuild tree, and can be expected to work
with most ebuilds that aren't webapps. As demonstrated by it not being
called 1.0, there are still bugs, missing features and general
oddities; thus Paludis is not suitable for production systems, and if
you care more about your data they encourage you to still use Debian.
However, Paludis is now more or less usable for atleast some people, and
it would be nice to get more testing from people who know what they are
doing.

More information can be found at http://paludis.berlios.de/ . In
particular, the
Known Issues and Portage Differences links may be of interest. There's also
a #paludis IRC channel on Freenode.
 
Ebuilds are in the main tree as sys-apps/paludis. Gentoo's bugzilla should *NOT*
be used for Paludis related issues, except for any bugs with the Paludis ebuild
itself. 

As it no longer will rape your dog, I suggest you check it out. 

With love, 
Christelxx.


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[gentoo-dev] Announcement - Conflict Resolution Board.

2006-08-24 Thread Christel Dahlskjaer
Hi fellow developers, 

As you all may recall Devrel some time ago voted in Jon Portnoys (avenj)
RFC[1] for policy change[2] to replace current policy[3] as per the
devrel project pages, and so came the creation of the Conflict
Resolution project. Please allow me to introduce to you the team;


Conflict Resolution Lead:
Christel Dahlskjaer aka christel

Primary Board members:
Ferris McCormickaka fmccor
Marien Zwartaka marienz
Olivier Fisette aka ribosome
Joshua Kinnard  aka Kumba

Reserve Board members:
Stuart Herbert  aka Stuart
Jason Weeveraka Weeve
Tom Knight  aka tomk
Homer Parkeraka hparker 

I believe that the board consists of people representing the broad
spectre of Gentoo, and thus we should avoid situations where we end up
with the same old boys club. I believe that every single board member
is fair and levelheaded and will always act with Gentoos best interests
in mind.

Kind Regards, 
Christel.

[1] http://dev.gentoo.org/~avenj/Devrel_ConflictResRoadmap
[2] http://dev.gentoo.org/~plasmaroo/policy.xml
[3] http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/devrel/policy.xml


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Re: [gentoo-dev] New Forums Staff : jmbsvicetto

2006-08-21 Thread Christel Dahlskjaer
On Sun, 2006-08-20 at 00:44 +0530, Shyam Mani wrote:
 Hi Everyone,
 
 
 Please welcome our latest forums staff, Jorge Vicetto aka jmbsvicetto.
snip
 
 So, throw up the usual parties, say hello when you meet him and make him
 feel at home :)

Welcome Sir! :)


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[gentoo-dev] Brand spanking new developer - Anrdrew Ross aka aross

2006-08-08 Thread Christel Dahlskjaer
Well, well.. who was I to complain when Gentoo had to fly me to
Melbourne, Australia to check out our newest recruit. Like a scene out
of Home and Away (ok, it's the only Australian TV show I know) we swam
with dolphins, we ran along the beach.. *snap* Ok, so Gentoo didn't fly
me to Oz, not that I would have complained if they did.. but we did gain
another australian developer.

The name is Andrew, Andrew Ross. He takes it shaken, not stirred.
Studies Computer Science, admins Gentoo servers for a living (how sick
of this will he get?), reads scifi and fantasy, spends time with his
girlfriend; Fiona. For us he will be maintaining xen alongside chrb and
agriffis, considering latching on to the hardened team in a bit and may
offer a hand or two to the zope team. 

Welcome on board Andrew! 
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[gentoo-dev] New(-ish) developer - Elfyn McBratney

2006-08-07 Thread Christel Dahlskjaer
It is my pleasure to introduce to you... the artist formerly known as...
beu! Many will know Elfyn from his previous stint as a Gentoo developer.
This time around, we have a understanding.. the sort that involves
sleeping with fish and finding horseheads in your bed. Capish? He won't
magically (well, I believe it was by magic, he is afterall an elf)
disappear again and will be joining the kernel guys, the perl people and
he'll be donning an apron and pink marigolds while helping out with the
QA tree cleaner project. 

I of course am thrilled, not only did we (re-)gain another UK based dev,
but a UK based dev with a great taste in music, a sick and twisted mind
and the ability to put up with me singing. Welcome back, Elfyn!

Christelxx
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Gentoo/Alpha, PR, Events, Release Engineering


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[gentoo-dev] Developer Upgrade! Steve Dibbs

2006-08-06 Thread Christel Dahlskjaer
Hi all, 

It is with geat pleasure that I can knight Steve (aka beandog) a
'real dev'. Under Mike (KingTacos) hawkeyed glance I have recruited my
first recruitee (hmm, it's not really called recruitee is it?) and am
embarking upon a joyful^Wstressful time as a recruiter.. 

Enough about me (although being female I feel compelled to try steal the
show..), most of you already know of Steve as he has been with the User
Relations project as our Planet monkey for a while and is also heavily
involved with the larrythecow.org/net community project, and of course
from his contributions to the GWN. He will now be joining in with
antarus' efforts of bleaching^Wcleaning the tree as a QA tree cleaner
and I suspect he will be slaving away with the media-video herd. I
wouldn't be surprised if we see him infiltrating other projects too, I'd
urge the following few projects to look out; AMD64, media-tv and
Knowlegde Base!

So yeah, bottoms up for beandog! (No, not that sort of bottoms Chris
White..)

Christelxx
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Re: [gentoo-dev] Nominations open for the Gentoo Council 2007

2006-07-29 Thread Christel Dahlskjaer
On Sat, 2006-07-29 at 15:07 +0200, Thierry Carrez wrote:
 We're nearing the end of the nomination period.
 
 So far (if we are to trust
 http://dev.gentoo.org/~vapier/council-2006-nominees.xml) the following
 developers accepted their nomination :
 
snip
 
 (Those developers should accept their nomination before July 31, 23:59
 UTC, else they won't participate in the election)
 
 Those were nominated but declined :
 
 antarus
 brix
 dberkholz
 dsd
 exg
 g2boojum
 Koon
 neysx
 Stuart
 Weeve

You may move me to the declined list, I sent an e-mail the other day I
just don't think Mike has caught up yet :)


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Re: [gentoo-dev] Nominations open for the Gentoo Council 2007

2006-07-27 Thread Christel Dahlskjaer
On Wed, 2006-07-05 at 18:28 +0200, Alexandre Buisse wrote:
 On Wed, Jul  5, 2006 at 18:20:08 +0200, Patrick McLean wrote:
 
  -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
  Hash: SHA1
  
  I would like to nominate:
  vapier/SpanKY
  flameeyes
  Kugelfang
  uberlord
  wolf31o2
  seemant
  solar
  Mr_Bones_
  KingTaco
 
 Please correct me if I am wrong, but there is no point in nominating
 people multiple times, right?
 Anyway, I would like to nominate:
 
 christel
 tsunam
 marienz

I would like to thank nattfodd for nominating me, and although my
curiosity makes me interested in the council and how it works, I feel I
would need to refrain from accepting the nomination at this point. I
don't believe I've been around quite long enough to get a good idea of
all the ins and outs of Gentoo as of yet. Maybe next year. :)


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[gentoo-dev] Project Sunrise - Update.

2006-06-24 Thread Christel Dahlskjaer
Hi, 
We held a meeting earlier this evening between User Relations, Project
Sunrise, brix and kloeri (unfortunately wolf31o2 was unable to attend)
to discuss the current and future direction of Project Sunrise. The
Sunrise developers felt that they were unable to change the format of
the project in such a way as to address the objections and concerns held
by other developers and projects, but have instead agreed to remove the
project page from the Gentoo website and mkove it to an entirely
unofficial, unsupported project. If the overlay seems to keep a
reasonable level of quality control then interested users can of course
be referred there should they require an ebuild not available in the
main tree, but on the understanding that it is completely unsupported by
Gentoo.

In the meantime, other developers will explore the possibility of
promoting and extending work on proxy-maintainership of packages within
the tree as a way to improve the management of packages in the tree
which no developer is able to maintain properly. Most people felt that
this would help solve the most pressing problems that Sunrise attempts
to address, while allowing the unofficial Sunrise to continue to work
towards its other aims. 

Please ignore any noise in the log, I'm afraid it is the entire log of
the 24hours of the day and thus may contain some off-topic chit chat at
the start and finish. 

Kind Regards, 
Christel Dahlskjaer



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Re: [gentoo-dev] Herds suck, fix them

2006-06-17 Thread Christel Dahlskjaer
On Sat, 2006-06-17 at 12:55 +0200, Jan Kundrát wrote:
 Christel Dahlskjaer wrote:
  On Thu, 2006-06-15 at 00:26 -0500, Lance Albertson wrote:
  Alec Warner wrote:
  So apparently they suck, anyone have a new shiny idea on how to group
  packages and maintaining developers?
  
  How exactly does one go about maintaining our developers? ;)
 
 developers maintaining $foo == those developers that are maintainers
 of $foo, imho ;)

Ah damn, and here I nearly got excited.


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Re: [gentoo-dev] Herds suck, fix them

2006-06-17 Thread Christel Dahlskjaer
On Sat, 2006-06-17 at 14:00 +, Ferris McCormick wrote:
 -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
 Hash: SHA1
 
 On Sat, 17 Jun 2006, Carsten Lohrke wrote:
 
  On Saturday 17 June 2006 04:51, Christel Dahlskjaer wrote:
  How exactly does one go about maintaining our developers? ;)
 
  It's devrel's cursed job. Ask them. :)
 
 
  Carsten
 
 
 Um, whips and chains.  But we're nice about it. :)

*grin* That's more what I was hoping for ;)


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Re: [gentoo-dev] Herds suck, fix them

2006-06-16 Thread Christel Dahlskjaer
On Thu, 2006-06-15 at 00:26 -0500, Lance Albertson wrote:
 Alec Warner wrote:
  So apparently they suck, anyone have a new shiny idea on how to group
  packages and maintaining developers?

How exactly does one go about maintaining our developers? ;)

 I suggest we create a murder of developers! Then we can be cool and not
 suck! :-)

And hundreds of crows just flew past my eyes. 




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Re: [gentoo-dev] July Council Meeting: Requested Agenda Item

2006-06-11 Thread Christel Dahlskjaer
After waiting for my replies for 24+ hours I presume they disappeared
into a blackhole while we were lacking lists, so I'm resending.


 Forwarded Message 
 From: Christel Dahlskjaer [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org
 Subject: Re: [gentoo-dev] July Council Meeting: Requested Agenda Item
 Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2006 13:13:37 +0100
 
 On Sat, 2006-06-10 at 09:27 +0200, Wernfried Haas wrote:
  On Sat, Jun 10, 2006 at 04:28:36AM +0100, Christel Dahlskjaer wrote:
   I would like to ask that the Council discuss the current state and
   future of the GWN at their next meeting.
  
  Council? Why escalate things? Have you talked to Ulrich about the
  problems mentioned below? Isn't the GWN somehow a userrel issue? ;-)
 
 I have attempted, but as it happens I have never ever spoken to Ulrich
 as he does not respond to my e-mails and does not frequent IRC and I
 don't have his telephone number or address. And the GWN doesn't come
 under Userrel, although they do have a representative within Userrel,
 one whom I understand to be wanting to make some improvements to the
 GWN.  
 
 As for why the Council, because thats what people suggested when I asked
 which route to take when he was unresponsive. 
 
   1. Reliability. The GWN claims to be a weekly publication, yet it
   frequently fails to publish without prior warning. There was no edition
   this week, and Patrick Lauer says that it is unknown whether there
   will be an edition next week as Ulrich Plate is AWOL.
  
  I agree there are problems due to Ulrich being awol every now and
  then, but what can the council do about it? Fire him so the GWN is
  unmaintained? ;-)
 
 No. I don't want anyone fired. However, I believe that the other GWN guy
 could be provided with sufficient access to make sure it goes out, and I
 believe that Ulrich could give some warning when possible so that
 Patrick or whomever can get it out regardless of whether Ulrich is
 around or not. 
 
   2. Permissions. Although it could be considered flattering that the GWN
   should choose a developer's blog as inspiration for an article, they
   should ensure that they have the developer / author's permission before
   quoting them (see previous complaints by brix, ciaranm and others).
  
  Why? What makes blog posts different to mailing list/forum threads,
  new versions being released etc? Do you want to ask people for
  permission then, too?
 
 If you re-read what I said I don't have an issue with the GWN or anyone
 else using someones blog post as inspiration, I do however believe that
 when quoting someone and writing the article in such a way that the
 'quotee' appears to have spoken to the publication you need to get some
 consensus before printing. 
 
   I also believe that when posting an article or interview, a copy should
   be sent to the relevant people to ensure that they are ok with what is
   being posted (my dev of the week interview, for example, was rather
   screwed up and misrepresentative). When someone contacts GWN to have
   something corrected, it would be appreciated were the GWN staff to at
   least deign to acknowledge receipt, even if for some reason they choose
   not to honour the corrections or post a retraction (although refusing to
   publish corrections is extremely insulting to those wronged).
  
  Considering Ulrich is appearently still/again awol, could that be the
  reason? I have requested small fixes (like wrong email addresses in
  stuff i submitted) every now and than and got what i asked for.
 
 He wasn't awol at the time of my writing my first few e-mails. 
 
   3. Misinformation, misquotations and outright fabrications. Sure,
   there's freedom of the press, but that shouldn't be used as an excuse
   for deliberately making up quotes and printing intentional
   misinformation.
  
  Huh? Can you back that statement up?
 
 To take an example, there were made up quotes in my GWN interview,
 however, nothing of great harm. I believe that time it was a case of
 attempting to make it more fun, it is however a worrying trend.
 
   From a PR perspective, Gentoo could benefit greatly by better
   utilisation of the GWN. I believe that as it stands, however, the GWN is
   discouraging people from contributing and damaging Gentoo's credibility.
  
  I have submitted a bunch of articles to the GWN, and it has always
  worked fine for me. Yes, Ulrich is awol at times and sometimes there
  are smaller corrections to make in the final article, but i never felt
  discouraged to submit my stuff. Worst case it takes a few extra days
  to get published.
 
 Ok. I am very glad to hear that not everyone shares the same experiences
 when it comes to contributing to the GWN. 
 
   Another thing that concerns me is the way the articles are written. It
   is blatanly obvious that the GWN writers are not native English speakers
   as both the grammar and the flow of the articles is far from attractive.
   Having read through the archives, I notice

Re: [gentoo-dev] July Council Meeting: Requested Agenda Item

2006-06-11 Thread Christel Dahlskjaer
The reply appears to have disappeared into a black hole.

 Forwarded Message 
 From: Christel Dahlskjaer [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org
 Subject: Re: [gentoo-dev] July Council Meeting: Requested Agenda Item
 Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2006 13:26:31 +0100
 
 On Sat, 2006-06-10 at 10:07 +0200, Lars Weiler wrote:
  Congratulations.  I just unsubscribed from the
  gwn-feedback-alias after reading your mail.
  
  * Christel Dahlskjaer [EMAIL PROTECTED] [06/06/10 04:28 +0100]:
   1. Reliability. The GWN claims to be a weekly publication, yet it
   frequently fails to publish without prior warning. There was no edition
   this week, and Patrick Lauer says that it is unknown whether there
   will be an edition next week as Ulrich Plate is AWOL.
  
  Several times Kurt or I took over the job of publicing the
  GWN when Ulrich asked us.  So, there is a backup, but he
  didn't asked for this week.
 
 I am glad to hear that backup has been used in the past, and I hope that
 it will be again.
 
   2. Permissions. Although it could be considered flattering that the GWN
   should choose a developer's blog as inspiration for an article, they
   should ensure that they have the developer / author's permission before
   quoting them (see previous complaints by brix, ciaranm and others).
   
   I also believe that when posting an article or interview, a copy should
   be sent to the relevant people to ensure that they are ok with what is
   being posted (my dev of the week interview, for example, was rather
   screwed up and misrepresentative). When someone contacts GWN to have
   something corrected, it would be appreciated were the GWN staff to at
   least deign to acknowledge receipt, even if for some reason they choose
   not to honour the corrections or post a retraction (although refusing to
   publish corrections is extremely insulting to those wronged).
  
  And I expect the same from you.  You should ask the affected
  people first before starting a discussion about them on our
  public mailing lists.  This is a device I can give you for
  further userrelations-activities.
 
 I have actually contacted Ulrich on several occasions, he chose not to
 get back to me. And I have spoken a fair bit with Patrick, and from
 speaking with Patrick it is quite obvious that the GWN could do with
 some help, and I am hoping that my addressing the problems we can pool
 together and find ways of helping them.
 
   4. Credit. Care should be taken to ensure that crrect credit is given.
  
  It is.  Either as Author or Contributor.
 
 Or it is totally lacking, like in the above mentioned blog scenario. 
 
   Another thing that concerns me is the way the articles are written. It
   is blatanly obvious that the GWN writers are not native English speakers
   as both the grammar and the flow of the articles is far from attractive.
   Having read through the archives, I notice that there was once a time
   when the GWN was a great publication, and I would like to think that it
   could become great yet again; in its current state, though, it is doing
   more harm than good.
  
  It's quite interesting to see, that the GWN and also
  Debian's Weekly Newsletter is run by Germans mostly.  Is
  there a problem with native speakers to run a periodically
  newsletter for a long time ( 3 years)?
 
 No, there isn't a problem with it. However, as I understand it the GWN
 is translated into N languages, and I would presume the german version
 to be the one which reads better. Could it be an idea to have someone
 whos first language is English look over and improve upon the English
 version? I know we already dot the i's and cross the t's, maybe it would
 be of benefit if someone worked a bit on how it flows.
 
   Lack of content and poorly written or incorrect articles are often
   justified by the GWN team on grounds of overwork and insufficient
   manpower. When I asked why they were not recruiting, I was informed that
   no-one has any interest in contributing. Upon speaking with others,
   however, I find that this is not the case -- people are interested, but
   fear (and rightly so) that their work will be edited in such a way that
   it is no longer something with which they want to be associated.
  
  Subscribe to the gwn-feedback-alias and read or comment the
  submissions to the GWN.  Make sure that every user will
  receive and answer.  And forward questions to the
  arch-teams.  Isn't that userrel's job?  I didn't saw your
  contributions there yet.
 
 I wasn't aware the gwn-feedback alias was public, if it is then I would
 be more than happy to subscribe to it and read and comment to every
 user. Would I be stepping on anyones toes by doing so? And if the GWN
 would like to off-load some stuff onto Userrel, then userrel would be
 more than happy to help. We already have a GWN representative and he
 knows that several of the userrel team would jump at the chance to help
 out with various GWN related bits

Re: [gentoo-dev] July Council Meeting: Requested Agenda Item

2006-06-11 Thread Christel Dahlskjaer
Another vanishing reply from yesterday.


 Forwarded Message 
 From: Christel Dahlskjaer [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org
 Subject: Re: [gentoo-dev] July Council Meeting: Requested Agenda Item
 Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2006 13:44:02 +0100
 
 On Sat, 2006-06-10 at 10:56 +0200, Patrick Lauer wrote:
  On Sat, 2006-06-10 at 03:28 +0100, Christel Dahlskjaer wrote:
   I would like to ask that the Council discuss the current state and
   future of the GWN at their next meeting.
  I don't think you have to escalate that far. We should be able to discuss 
  things without the thermonuclear option ;-)
 
 I have no idea, I asked people, they suggested the Council. It may be
 the wrong place :)
 
   1. Reliability. The GWN claims to be a weekly publication, yet it
   frequently fails to publish without prior warning. There was no edition
   this week, and Patrick Lauer says that it is unknown whether there
   will be an edition next week as Ulrich Plate is AWOL.
  We have tried to get a backup structure working, Halcy0n for example 
  offered to help. Ulrich never responded to these offers. He usually has 
  a good reason for not doing the GWN (like no Internet access, broken 
  notebook etc), but I also find this quite unsatisfactory.
 
 I am sure his reasons are good, and I agree there should be a backup
 structure in place. 
 
   2. Permissions. Although it could be considered flattering that the GWN
   should choose a developer's blog as inspiration for an article, they
   should ensure that they have the developer / author's permission before
   quoting them (see previous complaints by brix, ciaranm and others).
  As far as I'm aware this has been taken care of. But with the GWN quite 
  understaffed it is not easy to get everything done well.
  I'd appreciate some more support from others, but sadly my recruiting
  experiments usually ended after one contribution (for example summary of
  the -user ML).
 
 Which is why I am hoping that by bringing it up elsewhere, someone may
 have some ideas of how to recruit people, or just attract people enough
 for them to make the occasional contribution. 
 
   I also believe that when posting an article or interview, a copy should
   be sent to the relevant people to ensure that they are ok with what is
   being posted (my dev of the week interview, for example, was rather
   screwed up and misrepresentative).
  My fault. 
 
 Ok, thank you.
 
When someone contacts GWN to have
   something corrected, it would be appreciated were the GWN staff to at
   least deign to acknowledge receipt, even if for some reason they choose
   not to honour the corrections or post a retraction (although refusing to
   publish corrections is extremely insulting to those wronged).
  The reason for that is that the GWN is mostly sent out by mail. This 
  makes corrections a bit more difficult, but I think having a sane policy 
  for that would be helpful.
  
   3. Misinformation, misquotations and outright fabrications. Sure,
   there's freedom of the press, but that shouldn't be used as an excuse
   for deliberately making up quotes and printing intentional
   misinformation.
  I don't know what exactly you are talking about here. But it shouldn't 
  happen.
  
   4. Credit. Care should be taken to ensure that crrect credit is given.
  Yes. 
  
   From a PR perspective, Gentoo could benefit greatly by better
   utilisation of the GWN. I believe that as it stands, however, the GWN is
   discouraging people from contributing and damaging Gentoo's credibility.
  The problem with the GWN is the lack of reliable useful contributions.
  There was a time when the GWN was ~80% written by me, but that took more
  time than I could afford in the last weeks.
 
 See, if you spent less time arguing with that elitist bastard Chri...
 er, no :P Yes, I think what the GWN needs the most is more hands at the
 deck. 
 
   Another thing that concerns me is the way the articles are written. It
   is blatanly obvious that the GWN writers are not native English speakers
   as both the grammar and the flow of the articles is far from attractive.
  Help is appreciated :-)
  The GWN has become a german thing, we have jokingly discussed writing it
  in german and letting someone translate it to english.
 
 I don't think thats a bad bad idea, that is, maybe someone could atleast
 vamp it up a bit before it goes live. 
 
   Having read through the archives, I notice that there was once a time
   when the GWN was a great publication, and I would like to think that it
   could become great yet again; in its current state, though, it is doing
   more harm than good.
  Agreed.
  
   Lack of content and poorly written or incorrect articles are often
   justified by the GWN team on grounds of overwork and insufficient
   manpower. When I asked why they were not recruiting, I was informed that
   no-one has any interest in contributing.
  There's a big difference between one-off articles

Re: [gentoo-dev] July Council Meeting: Requested Agenda Item

2006-06-11 Thread Christel Dahlskjaer
On Sat, 2006-06-10 at 09:27 +0200, Wernfried Haas wrote:
 On Sat, Jun 10, 2006 at 04:28:36AM +0100, Christel Dahlskjaer wrote:
  I would like to ask that the Council discuss the current state and
  future of the GWN at their next meeting.
 
 Council? Why escalate things? Have you talked to Ulrich about the
 problems mentioned below? Isn't the GWN somehow a userrel issue? ;-)

I have attempted, but as it happens I have never ever spoken to Ulrich
as he does not respond to my e-mails and does not frequent IRC and I
don't have his telephone number or address. And the GWN doesn't come
under Userrel, although they do have a representative within Userrel,
one whom I understand to be wanting to make some improvements to the
GWN.  

As for why the Council, because thats what people suggested when I asked
which route to take when he was unresponsive. 

  1. Reliability. The GWN claims to be a weekly publication, yet it
  frequently fails to publish without prior warning. There was no edition
  this week, and Patrick Lauer says that it is unknown whether there
  will be an edition next week as Ulrich Plate is AWOL.
 
 I agree there are problems due to Ulrich being awol every now and
 then, but what can the council do about it? Fire him so the GWN is
 unmaintained? ;-)

No. I don't want anyone fired. However, I believe that the other GWN guy
could be provided with sufficient access to make sure it goes out, and I
believe that Ulrich could give some warning when possible so that
Patrick or whomever can get it out regardless of whether Ulrich is
around or not. 

  2. Permissions. Although it could be considered flattering that the GWN
  should choose a developer's blog as inspiration for an article, they
  should ensure that they have the developer / author's permission before
  quoting them (see previous complaints by brix, ciaranm and others).
 
 Why? What makes blog posts different to mailing list/forum threads,
 new versions being released etc? Do you want to ask people for
 permission then, too?

If you re-read what I said I don't have an issue with the GWN or anyone
else using someones blog post as inspiration, I do however believe that
when quoting someone and writing the article in such a way that the
'quotee' appears to have spoken to the publication you need to get some
consensus before printing. 

  I also believe that when posting an article or interview, a copy should
  be sent to the relevant people to ensure that they are ok with what is
  being posted (my dev of the week interview, for example, was rather
  screwed up and misrepresentative). When someone contacts GWN to have
  something corrected, it would be appreciated were the GWN staff to at
  least deign to acknowledge receipt, even if for some reason they choose
  not to honour the corrections or post a retraction (although refusing to
  publish corrections is extremely insulting to those wronged).
 
 Considering Ulrich is appearently still/again awol, could that be the
 reason? I have requested small fixes (like wrong email addresses in
 stuff i submitted) every now and than and got what i asked for.

He wasn't awol at the time of my writing my first few e-mails. 

  3. Misinformation, misquotations and outright fabrications. Sure,
  there's freedom of the press, but that shouldn't be used as an excuse
  for deliberately making up quotes and printing intentional
  misinformation.
 
 Huh? Can you back that statement up?

To take an example, there were made up quotes in my GWN interview,
however, nothing of great harm. I believe that time it was a case of
attempting to make it more fun, it is however a worrying trend.

  From a PR perspective, Gentoo could benefit greatly by better
  utilisation of the GWN. I believe that as it stands, however, the GWN is
  discouraging people from contributing and damaging Gentoo's credibility.
 
 I have submitted a bunch of articles to the GWN, and it has always
 worked fine for me. Yes, Ulrich is awol at times and sometimes there
 are smaller corrections to make in the final article, but i never felt
 discouraged to submit my stuff. Worst case it takes a few extra days
 to get published.

Ok. I am very glad to hear that not everyone shares the same experiences
when it comes to contributing to the GWN. 

  Another thing that concerns me is the way the articles are written. It
  is blatanly obvious that the GWN writers are not native English speakers
  as both the grammar and the flow of the articles is far from attractive.
  Having read through the archives, I notice that there was once a time
  when the GWN was a great publication, and I would like to think that it
  could become great yet again; in its current state, though, it is doing
  more harm than good.
 
 I disagree. GWN could use some more manpower to improve this and that,
 but i don't see the harm - at least i could easily come up with lots
 of stuff happening that does more harm (Not pointing my finger at
 anyone and leaving it up to everyone's

Re: [gentoo-dev] July Council Meeting: Requested Agenda Item

2006-06-11 Thread Christel Dahlskjaer
On Sat, 2006-06-10 at 10:07 +0200, Lars Weiler wrote:
 Congratulations.  I just unsubscribed from the
 gwn-feedback-alias after reading your mail.
 
 * Christel Dahlskjaer [EMAIL PROTECTED] [06/06/10 04:28 +0100]:
  1. Reliability. The GWN claims to be a weekly publication, yet it
  frequently fails to publish without prior warning. There was no edition
  this week, and Patrick Lauer says that it is unknown whether there
  will be an edition next week as Ulrich Plate is AWOL.
 
 Several times Kurt or I took over the job of publicing the
 GWN when Ulrich asked us.  So, there is a backup, but he
 didn't asked for this week.

I am glad to hear that backup has been used in the past, and I hope that
it will be again.

  2. Permissions. Although it could be considered flattering that the GWN
  should choose a developer's blog as inspiration for an article, they
  should ensure that they have the developer / author's permission before
  quoting them (see previous complaints by brix, ciaranm and others).
  
  I also believe that when posting an article or interview, a copy should
  be sent to the relevant people to ensure that they are ok with what is
  being posted (my dev of the week interview, for example, was rather
  screwed up and misrepresentative). When someone contacts GWN to have
  something corrected, it would be appreciated were the GWN staff to at
  least deign to acknowledge receipt, even if for some reason they choose
  not to honour the corrections or post a retraction (although refusing to
  publish corrections is extremely insulting to those wronged).
 
 And I expect the same from you.  You should ask the affected
 people first before starting a discussion about them on our
 public mailing lists.  This is a device I can give you for
 further userrelations-activities.

I have actually contacted Ulrich on several occasions, he chose not to
get back to me. And I have spoken a fair bit with Patrick, and from
speaking with Patrick it is quite obvious that the GWN could do with
some help, and I am hoping that my addressing the problems we can pool
together and find ways of helping them.

  4. Credit. Care should be taken to ensure that crrect credit is given.
 
 It is.  Either as Author or Contributor.

Or it is totally lacking, like in the above mentioned blog scenario. 

  Another thing that concerns me is the way the articles are written. It
  is blatanly obvious that the GWN writers are not native English speakers
  as both the grammar and the flow of the articles is far from attractive.
  Having read through the archives, I notice that there was once a time
  when the GWN was a great publication, and I would like to think that it
  could become great yet again; in its current state, though, it is doing
  more harm than good.
 
 It's quite interesting to see, that the GWN and also
 Debian's Weekly Newsletter is run by Germans mostly.  Is
 there a problem with native speakers to run a periodically
 newsletter for a long time ( 3 years)?

No, there isn't a problem with it. However, as I understand it the GWN
is translated into N languages, and I would presume the german version
to be the one which reads better. Could it be an idea to have someone
whos first language is English look over and improve upon the English
version? I know we already dot the i's and cross the t's, maybe it would
be of benefit if someone worked a bit on how it flows.

  Lack of content and poorly written or incorrect articles are often
  justified by the GWN team on grounds of overwork and insufficient
  manpower. When I asked why they were not recruiting, I was informed that
  no-one has any interest in contributing. Upon speaking with others,
  however, I find that this is not the case -- people are interested, but
  fear (and rightly so) that their work will be edited in such a way that
  it is no longer something with which they want to be associated.
 
 Subscribe to the gwn-feedback-alias and read or comment the
 submissions to the GWN.  Make sure that every user will
 receive and answer.  And forward questions to the
 arch-teams.  Isn't that userrel's job?  I didn't saw your
 contributions there yet.

I wasn't aware the gwn-feedback alias was public, if it is then I would
be more than happy to subscribe to it and read and comment to every
user. Would I be stepping on anyones toes by doing so? And if the GWN
would like to off-load some stuff onto Userrel, then userrel would be
more than happy to help. We already have a GWN representative and he
knows that several of the userrel team would jump at the chance to help
out with various GWN related bits.


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Re: [gentoo-dev] July Council Meeting: Requested Agenda Item

2006-06-11 Thread Christel Dahlskjaer
On Sat, 2006-06-10 at 10:56 +0200, Patrick Lauer wrote:
 On Sat, 2006-06-10 at 03:28 +0100, Christel Dahlskjaer wrote:
  I would like to ask that the Council discuss the current state and
  future of the GWN at their next meeting.
 I don't think you have to escalate that far. We should be able to discuss 
 things without the thermonuclear option ;-)

I have no idea, I asked people, they suggested the Council. It may be
the wrong place :)

  1. Reliability. The GWN claims to be a weekly publication, yet it
  frequently fails to publish without prior warning. There was no edition
  this week, and Patrick Lauer says that it is unknown whether there
  will be an edition next week as Ulrich Plate is AWOL.
 We have tried to get a backup structure working, Halcy0n for example 
 offered to help. Ulrich never responded to these offers. He usually has 
 a good reason for not doing the GWN (like no Internet access, broken notebook 
 etc), but I also find this quite unsatisfactory.

I am sure his reasons are good, and I agree there should be a backup
structure in place. 

  2. Permissions. Although it could be considered flattering that the GWN
  should choose a developer's blog as inspiration for an article, they
  should ensure that they have the developer / author's permission before
  quoting them (see previous complaints by brix, ciaranm and others).
 As far as I'm aware this has been taken care of. But with the GWN quite 
 understaffed it is not easy to get everything done well.
 I'd appreciate some more support from others, but sadly my recruiting
 experiments usually ended after one contribution (for example summary of
 the -user ML).

Which is why I am hoping that by bringing it up elsewhere, someone may
have some ideas of how to recruit people, or just attract people enough
for them to make the occasional contribution. 

  I also believe that when posting an article or interview, a copy should
  be sent to the relevant people to ensure that they are ok with what is
  being posted (my dev of the week interview, for example, was rather
  screwed up and misrepresentative).
 My fault. 

Ok, thank you.

   When someone contacts GWN to have
  something corrected, it would be appreciated were the GWN staff to at
  least deign to acknowledge receipt, even if for some reason they choose
  not to honour the corrections or post a retraction (although refusing to
  publish corrections is extremely insulting to those wronged).
 The reason for that is that the GWN is mostly sent out by mail. This 
 makes corrections a bit more difficult, but I think having a sane policy 
 for that would be helpful.
 
  3. Misinformation, misquotations and outright fabrications. Sure,
  there's freedom of the press, but that shouldn't be used as an excuse
  for deliberately making up quotes and printing intentional
  misinformation.
 I don't know what exactly you are talking about here. But it shouldn't happen.
 
  4. Credit. Care should be taken to ensure that crrect credit is given.
 Yes. 
 
  From a PR perspective, Gentoo could benefit greatly by better
  utilisation of the GWN. I believe that as it stands, however, the GWN is
  discouraging people from contributing and damaging Gentoo's credibility.
 The problem with the GWN is the lack of reliable useful contributions.
 There was a time when the GWN was ~80% written by me, but that took more
 time than I could afford in the last weeks.

See, if you spent less time arguing with that elitist bastard Chri...
er, no :P Yes, I think what the GWN needs the most is more hands at the
deck. 

  Another thing that concerns me is the way the articles are written. It
  is blatanly obvious that the GWN writers are not native English speakers
  as both the grammar and the flow of the articles is far from attractive.
 Help is appreciated :-)
 The GWN has become a german thing, we have jokingly discussed writing it
 in german and letting someone translate it to english.

I don't think thats a bad bad idea, that is, maybe someone could atleast
vamp it up a bit before it goes live. 

  Having read through the archives, I notice that there was once a time
  when the GWN was a great publication, and I would like to think that it
  could become great yet again; in its current state, though, it is doing
  more harm than good.
 Agreed.
 
  Lack of content and poorly written or incorrect articles are often
  justified by the GWN team on grounds of overwork and insufficient
  manpower. When I asked why they were not recruiting, I was informed that
  no-one has any interest in contributing.
 There's a big difference between one-off articles and continuous
 contribution. Also those that I found most willing to contribute had the
 biggest language problems - what we need is support from the native
 speakers.

Nod. I presume for some contributing weekly is rather difficult (finding
something to write about, finding the time to draft, re-draft, clean,
tidy, send off for feedback, double check, stand on their head

Re: [gentoo-dev] July Council Meeting: Requested Agenda Item

2006-06-10 Thread Christel Dahlskjaer
On Sat, 2006-06-10 at 10:27 +0200, George Shapovalov wrote:
 субота, 10. червень 2006 04:28, Christel Dahlskjaer Ви написали:
  I would like to ask that the Council discuss the current state and
  future of the GWN at their next meeting.
 Hah? What has concil to do with this? Is it going to mandate GWN be better 
 and it magically turns into some other thing? Why do you think there is 
 malicious intent here at all?

I was hoping the council, whom I understand to be built up of people who
genuinely care for Gentoo, would look at whether there was any ways of
helping the GWN become better. Say, look at alternative ways of
recruiting/ attracting contributors. It may have been the wrong place to
bring it up, but its the place that was suggested to me when I asked
people who have been around a lot longer than I have.

 [skipping the listing]
 All these problems can be explained very simply - a lack of manpower. As I 
 understand, GWN now is a one-man endeavour and Ulrich was pointing this out 
 himself and literally yelling for help! Many many times! Over approx last 6 
 month or so..

As Ulrich doesn't reply to my e-mails, I haven't had a chance to discuss
with him, I have, however, spoken to Patrick at great length and I
understand that the GWN finds it difficult to recruit, or even attract
contributors. And I agree, the main problem appears to be manpower,
which is why I am hoping that by creating some discussion people may
come up with new / different ways of attracting people to the GWN. 

 Do we want a more reliable and representative GWN? Of course!
 How we can get there? Well, stand up and help! Involving council is not going 
 to do anything besides starting yet another pointless burocratic endeavor. 
 Well, I suspect it won't do even that - I am pretty sure council is going to 
 just throw out this claim even if you officially start it. They can of 
 course mandate some more action, but what would be the point? If there are no 
 people willing to stand up, then who will listen to it?

If the council chooses to throw it aside and not look at ways of helping
the GWN then well, that sucks. But atleast I tried. 

 So, to conclude this thing. The only way GWN is going to improve, is if some 
 more people will join the ranks and start writing/editing GWN entries. I'd 
 say a team of 3 people is usually sufficient, but we need more like 7 so that 
 three are available for more than a first month :) (this is based on my 
 experience with organazing Russian transation team in its early days), plus a 
 steady stream of at least one new dev joining/two month, to compensate for 
 people droppig out. This should also have an effect of draft GWN published at 
 least a day in advance, instead of a few hours, so that the rest of us will 
 be able (and will ;)) take a look at it and make corrections..

I agree with the above, and as stated before, I am hoping that the
Council, or hell, just discussion on -dev may result in someone jumping
up and saying I have an idea, why don't you... or Have you tried..
as what would be great is if people could come up with ideas and ways of
attracting people. 




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Re: [gentoo-dev] July Council Meeting: Requested Agenda Item

2006-06-10 Thread Christel Dahlskjaer
On Sat, 2006-06-10 at 11:40 +0100, Daniel Drake wrote:
 Christel Dahlskjaer wrote:
  I would like to ask that the Council discuss the current state and
  future of the GWN at their next meeting.
 
 This is an open project. The solution to the problems you raise is 
 incredibly simple: Contribute on a regular basis, or find other people 
 who will do so.
 
 Writing hugely demotivating emails, scaring away existing contributors, 
 and wasting the council's time will not help at all.

Wow, thats not quite the response I had expected from you. Rather
surprising based on your comments elsewhere.




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Re: [gentoo-dev] July Council Meeting: Requested Agenda Item

2006-06-10 Thread Christel Dahlskjaer
On Sat, 2006-06-10 at 09:35 +0200, Tobias Scherbaum wrote:
 First of all, someone from infra/recruiters might please revoke my write
 access to gentoo/xml/htdocs/news/gwn. I'm no longer interested in
 contributing to the GWN.
 
  I also believe that when posting an article or interview, a copy should
  be sent to the relevant people to ensure that they are ok with what is
  being posted (my dev of the week interview, for example, was rather
  screwed up and misrepresentative).
 
 That's why Ulrich posts a draft to the core mailinglist, both for
 technical and grammar/spelling review. Also it is (at least it was)
 expected behavior, to give devs of the week (and devs mentioned or
 affected in/by other articles) a chance to review the article about
 them. If this wasn't the case with your article this is a problem we
 need to address.
 
  When someone contacts GWN to have
  something corrected, it would be appreciated were the GWN staff to at
  least deign to acknowledge receipt, even if for some reason they choose
  not to honour the corrections or post a retraction (although refusing to
  publish corrections is extremely insulting to those wronged).
 
 That's what I did in the past, of course: Only if I knew that there's
 something which needs to be corrected. (i.e. if there's a mail to the
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] alias).
 
  Another thing that concerns me is the way the articles are written. It
  is blatanly obvious that the GWN writers are not native English speakers
  as both the grammar and the flow of the articles is far from attractive.
  Having read through the archives, I notice that there was once a time
  when the GWN was a great publication, and I would like to think that it
  could become great yet again; in its current state, though, it is doing
  more harm than good.
 
 Once again: We have a draft posted to core to catch grammer/spelling
 mistakes.  That doesn't improve the language used in GWN at all, but as
 you mentioned, none of us is a native speaker. I'm sorry for not being a
 native speaker.

I don't actually have a problem with the GWN being written by non-native
speakers, English isn't my first language either. I do however think
that we could benefit from improving the flow of the articles somewhat. 

 Finally, reading your mail makes me really angry. I'm seeing myself as a
 somewhat regular contributor to the GWN and would have expected, that
 someone who draws a negative picture of the GWN like you, tried to
 talked to me before posting such a mail. Also I see nothing the Council
 can decide to improve the GWN, besides stopping further GWN releases.

I had no intentions to make anyonee angry. And as you aren't listed on
the GWN page I had no idea that you were a GWN team member, to my
knowledge the only two people who do the GWN are Ulrich and Patrick,
both of which I have attempted to speak with/spoken with. 

And the last thing I want is for the Council to stop the GWN, I am
however hoping that they may choose to help the GWN get back on track.
If nothing else I believe the council to be made up of people who care
about Gentoo a lot, some of which have been around for some time and
still remember the old unifying vision, some of which remembers how the
GWN was run when it was 'totally awesome' (to use a blonde-ism) and
people who hopefully would take the time to try help the GWN explore
new/different ways of improving/growing. 

 I fully agree that we have lots problems and much room for improvement
 with the GWN, but I can't agree with the way your trying to achieve
 this.

What is wrong with it? Would you rather I attempted to have the current
GWN staff replaced? Or the publication shut down? 


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Re: [gentoo-dev] Project Sunrise thread -- a try of clarification

2006-06-09 Thread Christel Dahlskjaer
On Fri, 2006-06-09 at 02:08 +0100, Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
 On Fri, 09 Jun 2006 02:49:14 +0200 Markus Ullmann [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 wrote:
 |  No.  It clearly says that you would be doing the basic QA checks and
 |  repoman checking on initial commit.  You even said it right above
 |  where I commented!
 | 
 | You're doing some witch hunting here... I said we keep an eye on
 | non-devs commits.
 
 How much do you want to bet that I couldn't sneak malicious code past
 you?
 
 And if you accept that I could do it, you're also admitting that quite
 a few other random people, some of whom don't share my own ethical
 objections to such a stunt, could also pull it off given sufficient
 time and effort...

I'd say that it's entirely possibly for some non-dev to sneak malicious
code into the tree as is now, just as it will be possible to do in an
overlay.   

It's not like it's particulary difficult to have someone proxy for you,
and let's face it, if someone is willing to do so then they probably
can't be arsed checking that what they are committing is clean and
nice.. I mean, I trust you, right? 




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Re: [gentoo-dev] Project Sunrise thread -- a try of clarification

2006-06-09 Thread Christel Dahlskjaer
On Fri, 2006-06-09 at 20:32 +0100, Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
 On Fri, 09 Jun 2006 20:06:04 +0100 Christel Dahlskjaer
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 | I'd say that it's entirely possibly for some non-dev to sneak
 | malicious code into the tree as is now, just as it will be possible
 | to do in an overlay.   
 | 
 | It's not like it's particulary difficult to have someone proxy for
 | you, and let's face it, if someone is willing to do so then they
 | probably can't be arsed checking that what they are committing is
 | clean and nice.. I mean, I trust you, right? 
 
 Huge difference between committing a few things for a person you know,
 where you have time to review code, and bulk committing random stuff
 where you don't have time to check anything. That's the deal here -- if
 a large number of developers can't handle maintainer-wanted, what makes
 people think a far smaller number can without screwing up?

I was actually agreeing with you. 

I also believe to be mistaken as I believed that all overlays on o.g.o
would be in the style of say the existing PHP and Haskell overlays, and
as such those with access would be trusted contributors, and I also
believed that the individual projects would be making sure that they
were testing and reviewing whatever patches were made to their stuff. 




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[gentoo-dev] July Council Meeting: Requested Agenda Item

2006-06-09 Thread Christel Dahlskjaer
I would like to ask that the Council discuss the current state and
future of the GWN at their next meeting.

1. Reliability. The GWN claims to be a weekly publication, yet it
frequently fails to publish without prior warning. There was no edition
this week, and Patrick Lauer says that it is unknown whether there
will be an edition next week as Ulrich Plate is AWOL.

2. Permissions. Although it could be considered flattering that the GWN
should choose a developer's blog as inspiration for an article, they
should ensure that they have the developer / author's permission before
quoting them (see previous complaints by brix, ciaranm and others).

I also believe that when posting an article or interview, a copy should
be sent to the relevant people to ensure that they are ok with what is
being posted (my dev of the week interview, for example, was rather
screwed up and misrepresentative). When someone contacts GWN to have
something corrected, it would be appreciated were the GWN staff to at
least deign to acknowledge receipt, even if for some reason they choose
not to honour the corrections or post a retraction (although refusing to
publish corrections is extremely insulting to those wronged).

3. Misinformation, misquotations and outright fabrications. Sure,
there's freedom of the press, but that shouldn't be used as an excuse
for deliberately making up quotes and printing intentional
misinformation.

4. Credit. Care should be taken to ensure that crrect credit is given.

From a PR perspective, Gentoo could benefit greatly by better
utilisation of the GWN. I believe that as it stands, however, the GWN is
discouraging people from contributing and damaging Gentoo's credibility.

Another thing that concerns me is the way the articles are written. It
is blatanly obvious that the GWN writers are not native English speakers
as both the grammar and the flow of the articles is far from attractive.
Having read through the archives, I notice that there was once a time
when the GWN was a great publication, and I would like to think that it
could become great yet again; in its current state, though, it is doing
more harm than good.

Lack of content and poorly written or incorrect articles are often
justified by the GWN team on grounds of overwork and insufficient
manpower. When I asked why they were not recruiting, I was informed that
no-one has any interest in contributing. Upon speaking with others,
however, I find that this is not the case -- people are interested, but
fear (and rightly so) that their work will be edited in such a way that
it is no longer something with which they want to be associated.

Another complaint is that the GWN rejects any writing style which has
any degree of character or levity. Any attempt at dececnt writing (the
kind that would make it into publication in English newspapers or
magazines, for example), is met with the claim that the GWN is not a
humorous publication.

I would like to see discussion about the way the GWN is
(mis)representing Gentoo, how we can better actualise its full potential
and what can be done to address the concerns listed above. 

I have the honour to be, sir, your obedient servant, 
Christel -- conventionally stuck in the 1920s.


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[gentoo-dev] User Relations Co-lead

2006-06-02 Thread Christel Dahlskjaer
Hi, 

It is my pleasure to inform you that after much discussion I can
announce that Joshua Jackson (tsunam) has come onboard to act as my
co-lead in Userrel[1]. 

Wish him luck, I suspect he will need it!

[1] http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/devrel/user-relations/index.xml
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Re: [gentoo-dev] Summer of Code students and Planet Gentoo

2006-05-28 Thread Christel Dahlskjaer
On Sat, 2006-05-27 at 20:30 -0700, Donnie Berkholz wrote:
 Daniel Drake wrote:
  1. We encourage our students to write about their projects on weblogs,
  and will set them up temporary weblogs at gentoo-soc.com if they do not
  have them already
 
 Why a new domain? We've already got a blog setup at
 http://planet.gentoo.org/developers/ and could just add
 http://planet.gentoo.org/summerofcode/ or something. If you want
 something like this, why not (soc|summerofcode).gentoo.org/?

The worry there was whether it would create controversy if they were
hosted with other developer blogs, so we figured we'd host the actual
blogs off-site (should irk less people, although presumably most will
already have external blogs already) and just aggregate them on
planet/universe (hopefully). 

Christel


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Re: [gentoo-dev] Summer of Code students and Planet Gentoo

2006-05-28 Thread Christel Dahlskjaer
On Sun, 2006-05-28 at 13:05 +0200, Henrik Brix Andersen wrote:
 Hi,
 
 On Sat, May 27, 2006 at 11:17:41PM +0100, Daniel Drake wrote:
  1. We encourage our students to write about their projects on weblogs, 
  and will set them up temporary weblogs at gentoo-soc.com if they do not 
  have them already
  
  2. We create a new planet at http://planet.gentoo.org/soc for the 
  duration of the summer, and aggregate their weblogs there.
  
  3. Additionally, we add them to Planet Gentoo and Gentoo Universe for 
  the duration of the summer.
 
 What a great idea :)
 
 I think it's important to get these SoC-students well-integrated in
 our [developer] community. Having their gentoo-soc blogs aggregated on
 Gentoo Planet|Universe seems like a good starting point to me.
 
 Hopefully, some of these young and competent students will decide to
 stick with Gentoo if we can manage to make them feel welcome ;)

That is certainly what we are hoping for :)


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Re: [gentoo-dev] Summer of Code students and Planet Gentoo

2006-05-28 Thread Christel Dahlskjaer
On Sun, 2006-05-28 at 13:57 -0700, Donnie Berkholz wrote:
 Christel Dahlskjaer wrote:
  The worry there was whether it would create controversy if they were
  hosted with other developer blogs, so we figured we'd host the actual
  blogs off-site (should irk less people, although presumably most will
  already have external blogs already) and just aggregate them on
  planet/universe (hopefully). 
 
 Next time something like this comes up, it might be worthwhile to figure
 out whether there actually would be any controversy first. =)

Thus putting it to the list and asking for input, which was the idea of
Daniels e-mail ;)


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Re: [gentoo-dev] Summer of Code students and Planet Gentoo

2006-05-28 Thread Christel Dahlskjaer
On Sun, 2006-05-28 at 20:29 -0500, Lance Albertson wrote:
 Donnie Berkholz wrote:
  Christel Dahlskjaer wrote:
  The worry there was whether it would create controversy if they were
  hosted with other developer blogs, so we figured we'd host the actual
  blogs off-site (should irk less people, although presumably most will
  already have external blogs already) and just aggregate them on
  planet/universe (hopefully). 
  
  Next time something like this comes up, it might be worthwhile to figure
  out whether there actually would be any controversy first. =)
 
 I agree here. Sometimes the easiest way out isn't the best. We could
 have supported this easily and with just a little bit of discussion. I
 imagine we would have gotten a few vocal people fired up, but overall I
 don't think we would mind. You've got to keep in mind that these people
 have a lot of potential of becoming Gentoo devs themselves... just in a
 very long drawn out recruitment process. :-)

I believe the idea behind asking the list was to do just that, see what
people thought. As of course, if everyone was rather opposed to the idea
we'd sort of not push for having them on planet, universe and the lot.
Personally, I would have loved to be able to offer them blogs
at /developers but the general consensus was that it wouldn't be right
just yet. However, if people believe it wouldn't really be a problem,
and it wouldn't cause too much of an extra workload for Steve and
Daniel, then I for one would be more than happy to go with that option. 

And yes, I think we are all hoping that they will be of developer
quality and that we can recruit them post Summer of Code. 

Heck, did you guys know that one of our students was the most popular
student, out of the 6 projects he applied to, 4 had accepted his
proposal. As luck would have it, he decided he wanted to work with us.

Having said that, I believe that we ended up with a good quality bunch
of people, and I am confident we will be gaining a lot from their work,
and hopefully also from future contributions post SoC, and I hope that
they in turn will find the experience to be one that benefits them too. 


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Re: [gentoo-dev] New staffer: Steve Dibbs

2006-05-17 Thread Christel Dahlskjaer
On Tue, 2006-05-16 at 13:14 -0500, Mike Doty wrote:
 -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
 Hash: SHA1
 
 All-
 
 Take a moment to welcome our newest staffer, beandog.  Steve will be
 helping dsd with planet/universe administration.
 
 In his own words, Hi there, I'm Steve from Utah.  Lots of Linux users
 out here, and I'm just one of them.  I started using Linux about three
 to four years ago, and Gentoo has been the only one I've been able to
 get working for more than three weeks.  I've been happy ever since.
 
 I work full time as an IT manager at a call center, where we get to do
 fun stuff like rewrite legacy ASP webpages.  When I'm in school I'm
 studying psychology, and I split all my free time between Gentoo,
 coding, and watching movies. :)
 
 I'm pretty excited to help out with Gentoo maintenance.  I've been
 writing wiki articles for a while now, and trolling in the forums longer
 than that.  Let me know if I can be of any help!

Welcome onboard Steve, and I'm happy to see another psych student
around.


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Re: [gentoo-dev] RFC - Gentoo Knowledge Base

2006-05-17 Thread Christel Dahlskjaer
On Tue, 2006-05-16 at 19:33 +0200, Sven Vermeulen wrote:
 Hi all,
 
 For some time now, the idea of a Gentoo Knowledge Base, like RedHat [1]
 and Microsoft [2] do, has been brewing in Andrés Pereira and my minds. Not
 only that, but a feature request was also filed some time ago [3] and just
 recently a forum thread was started for it [4].
 
 So, what is this about?
 
 A Knowledge Base provides answers to specific questions and problems that
 users (or developers) might encounter. It is easily searchable and
 maintained by developers who are knowledgeable in the topic. The knowledge
 base entries (topics as I like to call them) are not documentation guides,
 but very specific to a particular environment and question. They should
 leave absolutely *no* room for different interpretations.

I think that sounds excellent and like it certainly could fill some gaps
and be useful for users (and developers). 





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Re: [gentoo-dev] Alternative Gentoo package managers discussion request (for the council)

2006-05-17 Thread Christel Dahlskjaer
On Wed, 2006-05-17 at 17:38 -0400, Mark Loeser wrote:
 As the latest long thread has shown, there seems to be a split (it is hard to
 tell exactly) on whether or not alternative package managers, that support
 Gentoo ebuilds to some degree, should be added to the tree and supported.
 Supported in this case means having their own profiles which may or may not
 work with Portage.  There are currently a few different Portage rewrites, or
 alternatives, whatever you want to call them, and all of them have their own
 unique features being added to them which make them incompatible with Portage.
 Some don't even emulate Portage's broken behaviour which could also cause
 QA problems for us if we add the package to the tree.  If a package is in the
 tree, it is implicitly stating that we are going to offer some level of
 support for that application, and it increases workload for everyone that
 may have an ebuild that works with one package manager and not another.
 
 Therefore, I am requesting at the next Council meeting that they discuss
 and decide on how we want to handle problems like this in general.  This
 is not going to be the last time that someone wants to add their rewrite/
 alternative of Portage to the tree.  It should be decided if it is really
 in the best interests of Gentoo, its users, and developers to be adding
 these new managers to our own tree, instead of having them host their
 altered work on their own infrastructure.
 
 As the QA lead, I am requesting that until the Council convenes and decides
 on how we should proceed, that we not add anything else to the tree
 for the sole reason of supporting another package manager's features.
 This includes profiles or any other packages.  This will reduce
 headaches for all of us, and hopefully cut down on needless arguments
 that get us no where.

Good call Mark. I second this request.


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Re: [gentoo-dev] Alternative Gentoo package managers discussion request (for the council)

2006-05-17 Thread Christel Dahlskjaer
On Thu, 2006-05-18 at 00:23 +0100, Christel Dahlskjaer wrote:
 On Wed, 2006-05-17 at 17:38 -0400, Mark Loeser wrote:
  As the latest long thread has shown, there seems to be a split (it is hard 
  to
  tell exactly) on whether or not alternative package managers, that support
  Gentoo ebuilds to some degree, should be added to the tree and supported.
  Supported in this case means having their own profiles which may or may not
  work with Portage.  There are currently a few different Portage rewrites, or
  alternatives, whatever you want to call them, and all of them have their own
  unique features being added to them which make them incompatible with 
  Portage.
  Some don't even emulate Portage's broken behaviour which could also cause
  QA problems for us if we add the package to the tree.  If a package is in 
  the
  tree, it is implicitly stating that we are going to offer some level of
  support for that application, and it increases workload for everyone that
  may have an ebuild that works with one package manager and not another.
  
  Therefore, I am requesting at the next Council meeting that they discuss
  and decide on how we want to handle problems like this in general.  This
  is not going to be the last time that someone wants to add their rewrite/
  alternative of Portage to the tree.  It should be decided if it is really
  in the best interests of Gentoo, its users, and developers to be adding
  these new managers to our own tree, instead of having them host their
  altered work on their own infrastructure.
  
  As the QA lead, I am requesting that until the Council convenes and decides
  on how we should proceed, that we not add anything else to the tree
  for the sole reason of supporting another package manager's features.
  This includes profiles or any other packages.  This will reduce
  headaches for all of us, and hopefully cut down on needless arguments
  that get us no where.
 
 Good call Mark. I second this request.

Maybe I should have ellaborated on that, I do believe that the current
thread has been somewhat educational for a 'newbie' like myself, but I
also think that for the future it would be beneficial for people to know
how to go about similar. :)


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Re: [gentoo-dev] I'm retiring

2006-05-17 Thread Christel Dahlskjaer
On Wed, 2006-05-17 at 12:56 -0700, Rob Holland wrote:
 Hey all,
 
 As I've done very little Gentoo work in last few months and have
 generally lost interest in Gentoo, I'll be retiring.
 
 If you need to reach me you can find me at [EMAIL PROTECTED], or on
 IRC where I'll continue to sit in #gentoo-audit.
 
 Credit to the security/audit team for being fun and interesting enough
 that this didn't happen earlier, despite my lack of enthusiasm for
 Gentoo as a distribution now. I'll continue to sit in the sec/audit
 channels and generally be available there as best I can.
 
 Please close any accounts I have, and if possible, change my bugzilla
 account to be [EMAIL PROTECTED] All email/home stuff can go.
 
 Thanks, and maybe cya around :)

I'm sad to see you go Rob, but confident I'll see you around and I'll
take it that drinks in Dublin will still be on the cards ;)


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Re: [gentoo-dev] Gentoo: State of the Union + suggestion for global dev conference (at bottom, if you want to skip)

2006-05-03 Thread Christel Dahlskjaer
On Wed, 2006-05-03 at 11:43 +0200, Paul de Vrieze wrote:
 On Sunday 30 April 2006 03:55, Lance Albertson wrote:
 
  Here's an idea I had tonight. Since we're going to be doing the Google
  SoC this summer, perhaps a great project would be having someone work
  on this migration (or at least do an unbiased test implementation). I'd
  be willing to provide an infra server for testing/development. I don't
  see much problem at least trying to work out all the details. I don't
  think infra will go with any change unless there is a clear, detailed
  migration plan with proper back-out plans also. The tree is the most
  important part of our distribution and I'm not going to let such a
  migration go by without proper planning and testing. After the test
  implementation is done and has been fully tested, perhaps the council
  could make the final decision if infra is happy with the
  implementation/migration details.
 
 I think that is a good idea. It's a perfect google SoC project as it has a 
 clear boundary. Limited prerequisite knowledge is required, and it is 
 something we would really benefit from.
 
 Paul
 
 ps. Perhaps the SoC project could include fixing up the migration tools 
 (for example including the hypothesis that all ebuilds for a package 
 descend from eachother) and other coding necessary to make things work 
 perfectly.

Hiya, 

If one of you drop us a line of what you want included on the ideas
page, or pop into #gentoo-soc on irc.freenode.net we'll get it up
there. :)

Keep in mind, student applications close on the 8th of May, so the
sooner the better.

Christel


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Re: [gentoo-dev] Gentoo: State of the Union

2006-04-28 Thread Christel Dahlskjaer
 with the project, or find
 something else.  This solution just works.

I am not entirely certain what your definition of conflict is, but in a
group as large as ours there will no doubt be a conflict of interests
and beliefs. People can't be expected to agree 100% all the time, and
lets be realistic, if we did we would be going absolutely nowhere and
this would be terribly boring. 

Now, I believe that having a votes only system in place could be quite
dangerous and could easily be abused. Say Developer X annoyed me, so I
decided to ensure that there was a vote, I could easily fabricate some
reason for why I thought he was bad for the project and I could
certainly win people over on my side to ensure that he was voted out. 

Now, admittedly the current policy for dealing with conflicts of the
sort of nature where action needs to be taken against a developer has
been proven to give more headache than what it's worth and therefor
Devrel are attempting to work on changing the way they deal with this.
Now, the discussion about this has been open on the gentoo-devrel@ ML
for a few days and it appears that no-one has any input on the proposed
new policy at all. 

Personally I would like to see a change, I would like us to be able to
avoid having to go through things such as a hearing process. I would
like for trolling/flaming and personal attacks to be discouraged and
stomped down on as and when they occur rather than when they have become
the sort of problem that affects the morale and motivation for all of
us. But that's a different discussion for a different time and a
different mailing list.


 Gentoo should be a fun environment.  The previous paragraph should be taken as
 a last resort.

Quite. It's supposed to be fun, too. Now, personally I find Gentoo to
be primarily fun. I am involved with some incredibly awesome teams and I
deal with people who just plain kick arse. And I know that for many they
find the same within their projects/teams/whatevers... It's just a shame
we can't make it global yet ;)

Cheers,
Christel Dahlskjaer





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Re: [gentoo-dev] New Developer: squinky86

2006-04-18 Thread Christel Dahlskjaer

 A few words from the horses mouth:
 
 I'm Jon Hood from Huntsville, AL. I was a Gentoo developer before, but
 some problems came up and now I'm returning. All my spare time is put
 into developing applications for voip (esp. Asterisk), Gentoo, and last
 but DEFINITELY not least, my wonderful girlfriend, Caitlyn (who KingTaco
 wanted to make a dev instead of me).
 I am good with c++, java, assembly, php, and sql. Feel free to ask me
 about Asterisk, too. It's good to be returning to Gentoo!

Welcome back Jon. 
I was slightly concerned for a moment as I skimmed through the e-mail
and brain stopped at my wonderful girlfriend, KingTaco...

Christel.


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Re: [gentoo-dev] Improving Gentoo User Relations

2006-04-08 Thread Christel Dahlskjaer
On Sat, 2006-04-08 at 14:07 -0500, lnxg33k wrote:
 Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
 snip
  * If we're looking to increase the flow of end users - super users -
  developers, perhaps we should focus more upon improving development
  tools or development documentation.
 
 I'm a little late jumping into this and I haven't read all the threads yet, 
 however I agree with Ciaran here. From a user who wishes to progress, this 
 particular point is something I can relate to. Consolidating docs into a 
 single 
 place, getting rid of stale stuff, and updating the old would do a lot to 
 bring 
 users up-to-speed. By providing docs, users who wish to take the initiative 
 can 
 do so. Once they learn the lingo and system, they can better offer their 
 services and it would decrease frustration on the devs part concerning 
 ignorant 
 (not demeaning, but fact) users.
 
 Improving development tools helps, but also making them available where 
 applicable. I'm thinking more along the lines of scripts located on dev 
 spaces 
 as applications like catalyst are already available. Stuff that normally is 
 considered developer only should be opened up so that users can get a 
 better 
 sense of what is actually going on; this would lessen the degree of naiveness.

Yes, making information (such as documentation etc) more accessible,
easier to find and centralized is certainly something that would be
beneficial. As is making sure that it is all up to date. 

Thank you for pointing it out. 


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Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Improving Gentoo User Relations (fwd)

2006-04-08 Thread Christel Dahlskjaer
On Sun, 2006-04-09 at 00:40 +, S. Lockwood-Childs wrote:
 I apologize if this is a resend, but it seemed to me like the 1st attempt
 didn't get through (can't imagine why it would take longer than a couple
 of days to get to a gentoo-hosted mailing list from a gentoo-hosted mail
 account...
[snip]

Thank you for your suggestion(s), it's moved to my 'ideas to discuss at
upcoming meeting' list and we'll definately look into it.

Christel


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Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Improving Gentoo User Relations

2006-04-07 Thread Christel Dahlskjaer
Heya Chris, 

Thank you for responding!

On Fri, 2006-04-07 at 09:51 +0100, Christopher O'Neill wrote:
 As a Gentoo user, one thing that I'd very much like to see is improved
 communication between the dev teams and the users.  At the moment it
 feels pretty much like I am in the dark as regarding to how we are
 progressing on certain things.  Let me pick some examples:


So, if we somehow ensured we kept up to date with projects and where
they were at and maybe worked closely with our GWN liaison to maybe do a
'whats hot' type section of what's brewing? 
Now, as there is constant change I don't think we could make sure that
we could keep you updated on every single detail but we could certainly
entertain the thought of looking into ways of giving a brief update on
various projects progress.

 . A few days ago someone posted on the dev list asking about KDE3.5.x
 and it's current masked status.  As a KDE user myself I was also
 interested in the answer to his question, but to my dismay his first
 response was less than helpful! Although he did eventually get a
 satisfactory response, wouldn't it have been better if he hadn't had
 to ask at all? I'm sure many more people are wondering the same and
 probably aren't subscribed to this list.

I watched that thread with much interest. And yes, we need to improve
developer to user communication/information on other mediums as well.
Mind, a decent number of developers make good use of their planet. blogs
and they are always good to keep an eye on.

 
 . I notice certain other popular distros are now running GCC4 (and
 have been for some time), yet we are still running 3.4.6 (on ~x86). I
 know it's a lot of work ensuring that all packages compile properly
 with GCC4 and that there are no introduced bugs, but I have no idea
 how we are progressing on this - and wouldn't even like to ask for
 fear of asking in the wrong place..

Yes, I think the fear issue is quite a big one for many users, and for
some developers and prevent them from both asking questions and piping
in with ideas. And we certainly need to work on making people feel more
welcome again. 

 
 . How's portage 2.1 getting along? I notice it gets frequent updates.
 
 I am not asking for answers for those questions, they are merely
 examples (I could think of many more, so please don't single these
 out).  The point I am making is how we (the users) are in the dark on
 how Gentoo is progressing. This is the main reason I have subscribed
 to this mailing list (as well as Gentoo-Users) in an attempt to keep
 track of what's happening, but without much success).

We will look at what other ways we have of keeping people informed, and
see how we can make various projects work together on making sure we
reach as many users as possible.

 Ideally, what I'd like is for the various dev teams to compile a
 weekly status report, which could then be compiled into the weekly
 newsletter (which currently seems to be lacking much useful
 information).  It would be great if we (the users) could find out
 what's going on behind the scenes of our favourite distribution.

That is a pretty decent idea, however I suspect many developers already
invest whatever time they have in to the work they currently do and
won't be looking to take on yet another task. We may however look at
ways of keeping updated with various projects and doing something with
GWN to keep you more up to date. It's certainly something we are happy
to toy with to try find a way of doing this that works both for
$rand_project, User Relations, GWN and the target userbase.

 Anyway Christel, I hope this is the sort of response you are looking for.

Again, Thank you very much Chris. It was certainly the sort of response
I was after! If you have anything to add, don't hesitate to grab us!

Christel


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Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Improving Gentoo User Relations

2006-04-07 Thread Christel Dahlskjaer
On Fri, 2006-04-07 at 10:07 +0100, Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
 On Fri, 7 Apr 2006 09:51:58 +0100 Christopher O'Neill
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 | Ideally, what I'd like is for the various dev teams to compile a
 | weekly status report, which could then be compiled into the weekly
 | newsletter (which currently seems to be lacking much useful
 | information).  It would be great if we (the users) could find out
 | what's going on behind the scenes of our favourite distribution.
 
 The problem with this is... Once someone says we're working on $x,
 they're continuously pestered about it by users asking when it will be
 ready. Given how few of us are paid to work specific hours on Gentoo
 things, it's very easy for provisional release dates to be missed --
 and when half of a developer's time is spent responding to questions
 about where $x is and why an early test of $x pulled out of a
 supposedly not for end users repo broke their system and the other
 half is spent writing status updates it's pretty much impossible to get
 anything out consistently.

So, from a developer pov Ciaran; if we could come up with some way of
keeping up to date with what you guys do (without eating up any of your
time or getting in your way) and then keep the masses informed, would
that be more attractive? Obviously making sure that information is kept
to a not exactly bare minimum, but presented in such a way that it
doesn't in any way halt progress or potential change of direction? 
 
 Hence why some of us don't announce non-trivial projects on public
 mailing lists, and instead keep any discussion on -core and sekrit IRC
 channels. That's how what's now known as eselect was developed, and
 it turned out far nicer than the XML-laden aborted gentoo-config
 project precisely because of the lack of end user 'input'.

In more of a informative 'these are the exciting things we're doing'
sort of way rather than a 'tell us why you disagree' sort of way maybe.

 I mean, as a purely hypothetical example... Could you imagine just how
 many dumb feature requests, questions and requests for code from the
 unwashed masses someone would get if they admitted to having an early
 alpha of an alternative to Portage that didn't require Python? Having
 to deal with the noise would be more than enough to ensure that no more
 development would ever get done...

Purely hypothetically I suspect you'd be better suited for answering
that question than I am. 


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Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Improving Gentoo User Relations

2006-04-07 Thread Christel Dahlskjaer
On Fri, 2006-04-07 at 11:33 +0200, Grobian wrote:
 On 07-04-2006 11:07:28 +0100, Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
[let's pretend I snipped a bit here, oh wait, I did!]

 Maybe user-rel should, together with GWN bridge this problem by keeping
 the source of news anonymous?  Just to use it as teasers of what kind of
 things are being done in Gentoo's kitchen?
 Of course this only holds for new projects like in your hypothetical
 example.

Yes, that is quite similar to the idea that went through my head after
reading Christophers response. And I quite like it.

 Existing projects, like KDE and GCC probably already deal with questions
 from users, and giving a status update once a month would in my opinion
 help them to keep users both informed and interested, which is what the
 original poster meant I think.  From a user-rel perspective the
 information is used to inform the users that they're not waiting in vain
 for something not to happen, as well as why they are waiting, for
 example.

I'll bring this up at our upcoming userrel meeting and I'll also tease
our GWN liaison with the idea. And of course, I will be welcoming
feedback from developers and users. Ideas are welcome, and if someone
has any thoughts on how they think this could be done without eating
valuable developer time then I'd be more than happy to hear them!

Thank you Grobian!

Christel


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Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Improving Gentoo User Relations

2006-04-07 Thread Christel Dahlskjaer
On Fri, 2006-04-07 at 13:32 +0200, Patrick Lauer wrote:
 On Fri, 2006-04-07 at 11:33 +0200, Grobian wrote:
  Maybe user-rel should, together with GWN bridge this problem by keeping
  the source of news anonymous?  Just to use it as teasers of what kind of
  things are being done in Gentoo's kitchen?
  Of course this only holds for new projects like in your hypothetical
  example.
 GWN has a section Future Zone where any Gentoo project can announce
 new ideas, roadmaps or previews. It is not used that often, but if
 anyone wants some testing of a pre-release version or some user feedback
 on ideas ... just tell the GWN :-)

I'm about to reply to your e-mail in a second, and then I may grab you
to discuss a couple of these things. That cool? 
And from what you're saying it sounds like provisions are already in
place from GWNs side and thus convincing you to work with us on this
shouldn't pose a problem! Excellent!

Christel




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Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Improving Gentoo User Relations

2006-04-07 Thread Christel Dahlskjaer
On Fri, 2006-04-07 at 02:33 -0700, Donnie Berkholz wrote:
[snip]

 The general case of the above is that if you want information, you need
 to find the right spot for it. That's generally either a specific
 relevant list or Bugzilla. The information doesn't come looking for you.

That may have been the case up until this point, but again, lets keep in
mind that one of userrels main focuses is improving communication and
information flow, so I see no reason why we shouldn't look at other ways
of keeping users somewhat up to date. We have the resources in place for
keeping people updated, we just need to make use of them in a way that
benefits both camps. 

Christel


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Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Improving Gentoo User Relations

2006-04-07 Thread Christel Dahlskjaer
On Fri, 2006-04-07 at 11:37 +0100, Jonathan Coome wrote:
 On Fri, 07 Apr 2006 02:33:07 -0700
 Donnie Berkholz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  The general case of the above is that if you want information, you 
  need to find the right spot for it. That's generally either a specific
  relevant list or Bugzilla. The information doesn't come looking for 
  you.
 
 This, I think is exactly the point of what Christopher was saying.
 Currently, a lot of information is simply not available unless you know
 exactly where to look and who to ask, and that means that you have to
 spend a while around Gentoo before you can even ask the questions.
 
 I think planet.gentoo.org helps in this regard, but there could be a
 lot more done to keep end users aware of what's going on.

Thank you John, 
that is my view too. We have the resources that could be used for this,
we just need to utilize them! And thats exactly the sort of thing we
(userrel) is all about! 

Christel


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Re: [gentoo-dev] Improving Gentoo User Relations

2006-04-07 Thread Christel Dahlskjaer
On Fri, 2006-04-07 at 10:21 +0100, Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
 On Fri, 07 Apr 2006 03:30:10 +0100 Christel Dahlskjaer
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 | What do you believe could make Gentoo more attractive
 | to new users and to current users?
 
 Something that's often missed in these discussions... The only serious
 interaction between Gentoo and nearly all of our end users is through
 the tree, package manager and related tools and our documentation. Most
 of our users don't regularly read mailing lists, use IRC or the forums,
 so the only thing they really see is what happens when they emerge
 --sync and install things.

Nod, I may have dreamt this, but I believe I saw mention of some sort of
implemented news reader-esque idea. Is that something you know if people
have given any thought? Discussed? Is it an idea that could be worth
looking at again? 


 I'm not entirely sure how bugzilla fits into all this. I suspect that
 it's nowhere near as widely used by end users as it could be.

As for using bugzilla for information, I am not entire sure. As for the
sort of stuff that has been brought up bugzilla wise are things like
'Better how-to's to ensure it's easier for users to write good bug
reports and less time demanding for devs to respond to them (This is
already being worked on by cwp et al)

Other ideas are things such as introducing bugzillas voting system.

 Three things I can think of that can be drawn from this:
 
 * GLEP 42

Ding! The 'news reader esque' idea I thought I had dreamt may very well
have been just that, I read through all the GLEPs the other day, and I
suspect that may be where I got it from. Thank you.

 * All the pretty pink unicorns in the world aren't going to make a
 scrap of difference if the tree keeps breaking.

Ack, however much I love pretty pink unicorns (and pretty pink portage,
and pretty pink baselayout and most other things that are well, pretty
and pink) I agree with you there. 

Personally, I like the idea of such things as higher standards, more
direction, code reviews, developing coding standards, document
functions, getting the proper comments in place in code (I'm quite
astonished by the dearth of comments and how it looks like it hasn't
been reviewd for quite some time in places). However, this may be better
off in a different discussion and not on a userrel thread.

 * If we're looking to increase the flow of end users - super users -
 developers, perhaps we should focus more upon improving development
 tools or development documentation.

Perhaps that is somewhere else we need to look.


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Re: [gentoo-dev] Improving Gentoo User Relations

2006-04-07 Thread Christel Dahlskjaer
On Fri, 2006-04-07 at 07:32 -0400, Thomas Cort wrote:
 Perhaps we should have a page explaining all of the ways someone can 
 help / contribute to Gentoo. There is no central place (that I know of) 
 for finding out what you can do as a user to make your favorite 
 distribution become even better. The Free Software Foundation has a nice 
 page here: http://www.gnu.org/help/help.html I was thinking we could 
 have something similar to that for Gentoo. The list would include stuff 
 like becoming an AT/HT, becoming a dev, writing documentation, 
 translating docs, linking to Gentoo.org from your blog/website, telling 
 your friends, starting a Gentoo user group, fixing bugs, writing good 
 bug reports, answering questions on the forums/irc/ml, giving away 
 Gentoo CDs, buying t-shirts from the Gentoo store, etc, etc.

That is certainly an idea, we do have a small 'Getting involved' section
on the userrel page, but the section certainly could be improved on and
maybe even linked to or copied to somewhere where it is easier to find.

We'll have a good look at the link you provided and see if they have any
ideas we may be able to steal! Thank you.


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Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Improving Gentoo User Relations

2006-04-07 Thread Christel Dahlskjaer
On Fri, 2006-04-07 at 15:35 +0200, Martin Ehmsen wrote:
[snip]

 How about a website/blog hosted on www.gentoo.org pr. project and a 
 little tool for posting on such a website (ala echangelog). I don't have 
 the time to set something like that up on my own, but I would use it if 
 it was given to me.
 I work in text-markup and we don't do much high profile development, but 
   I would like a way to tell users about what we are doing even though 
 it would only mean a post pr. month or so.
 But if I need to spend time and energy on setting such a thing up, then 
 it will never happen.

Excellent. Thank you Ehmsen.
If it looks like there is a bit more interest from both camps I will
certainly make sure we look into what we as userrel can do to implement
something, and in which ways we can make it easy to use, and non time
consuming.


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Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Improving Gentoo User Relations

2006-04-07 Thread Christel Dahlskjaer
On Fri, 2006-04-07 at 08:20 -0500, Grant Goodyear wrote:
[snip]
 On the other hand, this problem does have a solution--another level of
 indirection.  Anybody who wishes, dev or user, could spend time 
 tracking Gentoo development (through bugs and the mailing lists) and
 submit status reports to the GWN.  Care to volunteer?  I'd be happy to
 provide pointers on how to get started.

I may grab you on IRC later and see if you can tell me your pointers, I
like his idea and I'd like to look into it! 

Thanks Grant.


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Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Improving Gentoo User Relations

2006-04-07 Thread Christel Dahlskjaer
On Fri, 2006-04-07 at 14:43 +0100, Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
 On Fri, 07 Apr 2006 15:19:35 +0100 Christel Dahlskjaer
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 | So, from a developer pov Ciaran; if we could come up with some way of
 | keeping up to date with what you guys do (without eating up any of
 | your time or getting in your way) and then keep the masses informed,
 | would that be more attractive? Obviously making sure that information
 | is kept to a not exactly bare minimum, but presented in such a way
 | that it doesn't in any way halt progress or potential change of
 | direction? 
 
 If it's information on things that are fine being public but aren't
 simply because of lack of time to write them up, then that would be
 great. If it's things that're being kept quiet purposefully, however,
 then the last thing we want is to start telling people things.

Yes, I agree with that entirely. If things are being kept quiet for a
reason we will have no wish to attempt to push for these to be made
public before the decision to do so is reached by the development teams
in question. 

 
 |  Hence why some of us don't announce non-trivial projects on public
 |  mailing lists, and instead keep any discussion on -core and sekrit
 |  IRC channels. That's how what's now known as eselect was developed,
 |  and it turned out far nicer than the XML-laden aborted gentoo-config
 |  project precisely because of the lack of end user 'input'.
 | 
 | In more of a informative 'these are the exciting things we're doing'
 | sort of way rather than a 'tell us why you disagree' sort of way
 | maybe.
 
 See, that doesn't work. There's this strange notion that because we're
 open source, users somehow have a right to a) see the code, b) make
 suggestions, c) demand new features, d) get support and e) annoy other
 developers or upstream when they break something that has a knock-on
 effect of breaking an unrelated package.

I was rather unclear, I think your previous passage had me rather spot
on for what I was wanting to do. 


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Re: [gentoo-dev] Improving Gentoo User Relations

2006-04-07 Thread Christel Dahlskjaer
On Fri, 2006-04-07 at 11:42 -0400, Alec Warner wrote:
 Thomas de Grenier de Latour wrote:
  On Fri, 7 Apr 2006 10:21:54 +0100,
  Ciaran McCreesh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  
  
 * If we're looking to increase the flow of end users - super users -
 developers, perhaps we should focus more upon improving development
 tools or development documentation.
  
  
  I would also suggest creation of a gentoo-dev-help@ mailing-list.
  Something similar to what, i guess, the homonym IRC chan is, but for
  people who don't like IRC.  Maybe i'm wrong and that's not the
  intention, but after 4 years of reading on gentoo-dev@ (yeah, today is
  anniversary of my subscription - yik, that's more than 36K emails in
  this maildir) , my feeling is that it's not the right place for users
  to ask technical questions about development/contributing (ebuilds
  writing, etc.).  It's not that i fear this ML, but i see it mainly as a
  place for dev-to-dev communication on general/important topics (gleps
  discussion, common sense reminders, random flamewars, etc.), and thus i
  see the occasional How {c,sh}ould i do something? messages about
  small details as somehow off-topic, and i tend to avoid posting some.
  
  Seeing how more numerous this kind of messages are on Portage 
  Programming forums, or on gentoo-user*@ lists, i guess i'm not the
  only user with such feeling.  But forums or users MLs are not really
  satisfactory for non-obvious questions, because the devs/users rate
  there is too low.
  
  So, what i usualy do when i'm not sure about something, in an ebuild i
  wrote for instance, is to post  it as-is on bugs.g.o, with the
  questions left open in my report. But they will stay unanswered if
  the bug falls in the maintainer-wanted@ oubliettes, or if the
  assignee is too short in time to explain me why he choosed one solution
  rather than an other. And even if i get my answer, it will be from a
  single dev, whereas others might have had a different views on the
  topic.
  
  Finally, i think such a mainling list could give good hints on what to
  improve in the documentation. Some legitimate questions may point to
  real lacks in the documentation, and some answers could be starting
  point for new chunks to add to the official or unofficial handbooks.
  
  --
  TGL.
 
 +1, plus the ML is archived unlike IRC, and users can search archives
 and we could more easily compile a FAQ about ebuild writing and such.

What Alec said, however, this would require that we have interested
developers who would subscribe and be active when they can, to avoid it
becoming another -user. 

But yes, I like that idea too! Thank you.


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[gentoo-dev] Improving Gentoo User Relations

2006-04-06 Thread Christel Dahlskjaer
 and over again as something
people would like us to look at is bugzilla, both users and developers
have been bringing this up on a daily basis for some time. It has also
been suggested we look at working with developer relations on revamping
the recruitment process. It has been suggested we ensure there is female
cut t-shirts in the gentoo store. It has been suggested we take the
initiative for creating a project similar to that of Debian Women[2] and
a host of other interesting things. We do of course welcome your views
on all of the above, as well as anything else you think we should do.

As well as interacting with us by replying to this e-mail you are of
course welcome to join us on irc (irc.freenode.net) in the
#gentoo-userrel channel. And we have a mailinglist[3] for those who wish
to partake on that. 

I hope my e-mail wasn't too vague, I also hope that I will wake up and
find my inbox full of exciting ideas and suggestions from all of you!

¡Viva la revolución!

Christel Dahlskjaer

[1] http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/devrel/user-relations/
[2] http://women.alioth.debian.org/about/
[3] [EMAIL PROTECTED]



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Re: [gentoo-dev] How many users? [WAS] Improving Gentoo User Relations

2006-04-06 Thread Christel Dahlskjaer
On Thu, 2006-04-06 at 19:17 -0700, Donnie Berkholz wrote:
 Christel Dahlskjaer wrote:
  So now we are faced with the challenge of resurrecting the project and
  making it the best it can be. We have a blank page to colour in in such
  a way it becomes attractive to the majority of our ~200,000 users, and
 
 Have we lost 100,000? The last estimate I saw was 50% higher.

300,000 would be even better! 200K was the number I was given after
asking a bunch of people, well, it was the highest number (other
suggestions was 'over ten') and as I understand it the data they had
were rather old, so if your 300K is newer and more accurate then that is
even more fantastic!

C.


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Re: [gentoo-dev] New Staffer: Christel Dahlskjaer

2006-03-13 Thread Christel Dahlskjaer
On Mon, 2006-03-13 at 14:49 +0100, Jochen Maes wrote:
 /me gives a hot welcome hump to christel
 
 now yer branded :-)

Is this where I say Yeah, I like it like that? :)

Thanks SeJo! :)

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Re: [gentoo-dev] New Staffer: Christel Dahlskjaer

2006-03-13 Thread Christel Dahlskjaer
On Mon, 2006-03-13 at 14:43 +0100, Boris Fersing wrote:
[snip]
 Welcome Christel !! ;)
 
 Boris.

Thank you Boris!

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Re: [gentoo-dev] New Staffer: Christel Dahlskjaer

2006-03-13 Thread Christel Dahlskjaer
On Mon, 2006-03-13 at 15:02 +0100, Andrej Kacian wrote:
[snip]
 I don't remember you branding *me* when I was new. :))
 
 Anyway, welcome, Christel!

Thank you!

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