Re: [gentoo-dev] [News item review v4] Python preference to follow PYTHON_TARGETS

2021-01-25 Thread Philip Webb
210125 Michał Górny wrote:
> Changed eselect-python dep removal date to July 2021.
> Not sure if there's a reason to display it to stable users today,
> or delay until the stable request is actually filed.

I've been using Gentoo since 2003 , happily enough most of the time ;
I'm an ordinary desktop user without any special requirements.
Python versions have been one of the reasons for the exceptions.
I finally managed to remove 2.7 from my system yesterday.

I do appreciate your work in this area,
but I can make no sense of the news item below.

> Title: Python preference to follow PYTHON_TARGETS
> Author: Michał Górny 
> Posted: 2021-01-24
> Revision: 1
> News-Item-Format: 2.0
> 
> On 2021-02-01 stable users will switch to a new method of updating
> the preferred Python versions that employs the configuration update
> mechanism in order to follow PYTHON_TARGETS.

What are "preferred Python versions" ?  Why are they multiple, not one ?
What is the "configuration update mechanism",
how does it "follow PYTHON_TARGETS" & why are they both needed ?

> We will also deprecate app-eselect/eselect-python,
> and it will stop being installed by default after 2021-07-01.

Why has there been this 3rd method of managing Python versions ?
Why might it still be needed by users ?

> If you wish to use the newest Python version present
> in your PYTHON_TARGETS, you only have to accept configuration changes.

Why doesn't Python behave like most other packages,
ie use the latest installed version ?  Why does PYTHON_TARGETS exist ?
Why are the "targets" ? -- it sounds as if they may not be achieved.
What are the "configuration changes" ?
Do you mean those in  /etc/python-exec ?

> If you wish to customize the behavior, read on.

I have no wish to customise Python.  I don't use it to develop programs ;
it is installed only as a requirement for other packages, eg Portage.
I do use it for a small script to work as a CLI calculator.
Given this, I won't comment on the rest of the news item,
but it makes even less sense to me than the section above.

In  /etc/portage/make.conf , I have

  USE_PYTHON="2.7 3.5 3.6"
  PYTHON_TARGETS="python3_7"
  PYTHON_SINGLE_TARGET="python3_7"

'eselect python list' gives

  Available Python interpreters, in order of preference:
  [1]   python3.7
  [2]   python3.6 (uninstalled)

 /etc/python-exec/  contains  1  file 'python-exec.conf',
which says (besides many lines of comment) :

  python3.7
  python3.6

'eix python' shows

  [I] dev-lang/python
 Available versions:  
 (2.7)  2.7.18-r5 ~2.7.18-r6
 (3.6)  3.6.12-r1(3.6/3.6m)^t ~3.6.12-r2(3.6/3.6m)^t
 (3.7)  3.7.9-r1(3.7/3.7m)^t ~3.7.9-r2(3.7/3.7m)^t
 (3.8)  3.8.6-r1^t ~3.8.7-r1^t
 (3.9)  3.9.0-r1^t ~3.9.1-r1^t
 (3.10) ~3.10.0_alpha3-r1^t ~3.10.0_alpha4^t
  {-berkdb bluetooth build examples gdbm hardened ipv6 libressl +ncurses 
+readline sqlite +ssl test +threads tk verify-sig +wide-unicode wininst +xml 
ELIBC="uclibc"}
  Installed versions:  3.7.9-r1(3.7/3.7m)^t([2021-01-24 23:26:15])(gdbm ncurses 
readline sqlite ssl tk xml -bluetooth -build -examples -hardened -ipv6 
-libressl -test -wininst) 3.8.6-r1(3.8)^t([2021-01-24 23:28:48])(gdbm ncurses 
readline sqlite ssl tk xml -bluetooth -build -examples -hardened -ipv6 
-libressl -test -wininst) 3.9.0-r1(3.9)^t([2021-01-24 23:31:53])(gdbm ncurses 
readline sqlite ssl tk xml -bluetooth -build -examples -hardened -ipv6 
-libressl -test -wininst)

I can't understand why there are so many ways to control Python
nor which one users are supposed to use nor how to reconcile them.
I would be very happy simply to use 3.9 for all Python purposes.

Thanks again for your hard work on this + other areas of Gentoo.

-- 
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Re: [gentoo-dev] Last rites: x11-misc/rss-glx

2021-01-17 Thread Philip Webb
210117 Jonas Stein wrote:
> # Jonas Stein  (2021-01-17)
> # Removal in 30 days.
> # Fails to compile Bug #765697.
> x11-misc/rss-glx

Can you please take a 2nd look at this ?
There's a comment on the bug today :

   Alex Belits 2021-01-17 07:57:52 UTC
   Compiles just fine with GCC 9.3.0.
   Bugs are mostly lack of compatibility with non-Linux platforms
   and hanging with bad OpenGL implementations.

I just remerged it on my stable system without any problems.
The latest Gentoo update was 2020-12-05 .

It provides a set of extra screesavers for Xscreensaver
which are attractive enough to be worth keeping available.

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Re: [gentoo-dev] Last Rites: app-eselect/eselect-opengl

2020-08-11 Thread Philip Webb
200811 Matt Turner wrote:
> # Matt Turner  (2020-08-11)
> # Replaced by media-libs/libglvnd.
> # Masked for removal in 30 days. Bug #728286
> app-eselect/eselect-opengl

root:552 ~> emerge -cpv eselect-opengl
Calculating dependencies... done!
  app-eselect/eselect-opengl-1.3.1-r4 pulled in by:
media-libs/mesa-20.0.8 requires >=app-eselect/eselect-opengl-1.3.0
x11-base/xorg-server-1.20.8-r1 requires >=app-eselect/eselect-opengl-1.3.0

'mesa' is installed with USE="egl", which perhaps needs changing :

root:554 ~> eixe mesa
[I] media-libs/mesa
 Available versions:  20.0.8^t ~20.1.4^t ~20.1.5^t ***l^t {+X +classic 
d3d9 debug +dri3 +egl +gallium +gbm gles1 +gles2 +libglvnd +llvm lm-sensors 
opencl osmesa selinux test unwind vaapi valgrind vdpau vulkan vulkan-overlay 
wayland xa xvmc +zstd ABI_MIPS="n32 n64 o32" ABI_RISCV="lp64 lp64d" 
ABI_S390="32 64" ABI_X86="32 64 x32" KERNEL="linux" VIDEO_CARDS="freedreno i915 
i965 intel iris lima nouveau panfrost r100 r200 r300 r600 radeon radeonsi vc4 
virgl vivante vmware"}
 Installed versions:  20.0.8^t([2020-06-20 09:13:08])(X egl gallium gbm 
wayland -classic -d3d9 -debug -dri3 -gles1 -gles2 -libglvnd -llvm -lm-sensors 
-opencl -osmesa -selinux -test -unwind -vaapi -valgrind -vdpau -vulkan 
-vulkan-overlay -xa -xvmc -zstd ABI_MIPS="-n32 -n64 -o32" ABI_RISCV="-lp64 
-lp64d" ABI_S390="-32 -64" ABI_X86="64 -32 -x32" KERNEL="linux" 
VIDEO_CARDS="nouveau -freedreno -i915 -i965 -intel -iris -lima -panfrost -r100 
-r200 -r300 -r600 -radeon -radeonsi -vc4 -virgl -vivante -vmware")

but there is no similar flag on 'xorg-server' :

root:553 ~> eix xorg-server
[I] x11-base/xorg-server
 Available versions:  1.20.8(0/1.20.8) 1.20.8-r1(0/1.20.8) **(0/)*l 
{debug dmx doc (+)elogind ipv6 kdrive +libglvnd libressl minimal selinux 
static-libs (+)suid systemd +udev unwind wayland xcsecurity xephyr xnest xorg 
xvfb}
 Installed versions:  1.20.8-r1(0/1.20.8)([2020-08-09 20:16:16])(elogind 
udev xorg -debug -dmx -doc -ipv6 -kdrive -libglvnd -libressl -minimal -selinux 
-static-libs -suid -systemd -unwind -wayland -xcsecurity -xephyr -xnest -xvfb)

Before I do anything damaging, can you advise how to handle the above ?

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Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: News item: xorg-server dropping default suid

2020-06-22 Thread Philip Webb
200622 Piotr Karbowski wrote:
> On 22/06/2020 06.03, Philip Webb wrote:
> [...]
>> I don't want to use 'systemd', as I want to run a traditional UNIX version
>> of Linux + KDE (or Fluxbox) for a simple single-user desktop system.
> Then... don't use systemd !  I officially give you my approval for that.
> Read what you quoted in your email, elogind is standalone package.
> Elogind does work normally in the configuration with OpenRC and startx.

Ah, it cb used with 'startx', which is vital for me.

>> So again : Why is running 'xorg-server' as root "heavily discouraged" ?
> It's common sense to run software with the least privileges they require,
> so if new attack vector is discovered,
> perhaps there will be no escalation surface to make use of it.

OK, understood.  It doesn't look as if there's any genuine danger
in continuing to use 'xorg-server' with 'suid' on my single-user system,
but if it really is as straightforward to use 'elogind' instead,
I may decide to change to that method for the reason you offer.

Thanks for your explanation & to all the devs for their unpaid labors.

-- 
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Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: News item: xorg-server dropping default suid

2020-06-21 Thread Philip Webb
200621 Matt Turner wrote:
> On Sun, Jun 21, 2020 at 4:53 PM Philip Webb  wrote:
>> I've been running xorg-server as root for  > 16 yr  without any problems.
>> AFAIK there are no problems re exploits via I/net browsers,
>> which are started by my user as all such user software always is.
>> What might go wrong, if I continue to 'startx'
>> with 'xorg-server' merged with 'suid -elogind'
>> & without the '.xinitrc' line show above in the Wiki ?
> For the majority of users -- those that use a graphics driver
> with kernel modesetting support -- , X only needs root access
> for a small set of things : accessing the DRM device node,
> accessing the input device nodes and some stuff around VTs.
> The rest of the time, X doesn't need root access.
> With elogind, those bits are handled in a small daemon
> and X no longer needs to run as root.  Most people find that valuable,
> especially with the knowledge that there have been
> a number of security vulnerabilities that would allow arbitrary code
> execution in the xserver over the years [1].

The latest of those was announced in 2018
& all of them seem to involve privilege escalation by local users ;
those marked 'remote' all seem to be via off-site logins.
There doesn't appear ever to have been a genuine remote threat,
so single-user systems have never been threatened by xorg-server as root.

> [1] 
> https://www.cvedetails.com/vulnerability-list/vendor_id-88/product_id-8600/X.org-Xorg-server.html

So i ask again : Why is running 'xorg-server' as root "heavily discouraged" ?

There was a similar issue a few years ago,
when the game Nethack was threatened with removal from Gentoo
due to a security problem which affected only multi-user systems.
Is there any difference in this case of xorg-server ?

-- 
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Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: News item: xorg-server dropping default suid

2020-06-21 Thread Philip Webb
200621 Piotr Karbowski wrote:
> Title: xorg-server dropping default suid
...
> The Gentoo X11 Team is announcing that starting with 15th of July,
> the x11-base/xorg-server will no longer default to suid
> and will default to using logind interface instead.  This change
> makes xorg-server run as regular user rather than root by default,
> however those who do not have any logind interface provider
> -- either systemd or elogind -- will need to enable either
> to make it possible to run X session as unprivileged user.
> No action is required from systemd and desktop profile users,
> since systemd provides logind interface
> and desktop profile already enables 'elogind' USE flag globally.
> Rest of the non-systemd users is required to globally enable
> 'elogind' USE flag and apply it by 'emerge --newuse @world',
> after which, re-login is required so that PAM can allocate seat.
> One can confirm that a seat has been assigned upon login by running:
> $ loginctl user-status
> Those who for whatever reason want to preserve current state,
> while heavily discouraged,
> can still use x11-base/xorg-server with 'suid -elogind'.

Gentoo Wiki says :

  elogind is the systemd project's logind, extracted to a standalone package.
  It's designed for users who prefer a non-systemd init system,
  but still want to use popular software such as KDE/Wayland or GNOME
  that otherwise hard-depends on systemd. 

  startx integration : To have an elogind session created
  when using startx to start the X server (instead of a display manager),
  add the following to the user's ~/.xinitrc file : FILE ~/.xinitrc
   exec dbus-launch --exit-with-session 
  WINDOW_MANAGER in the above example needs to be replaced
  by a window manager or a single application. 

I want to use 'startx' to start X , because I don't want to be trapped
if some problem arises with X or KDE or the login manager
& I need to change config files or remerge pkgs (etc) to rescue myself.
With 'startx' I can do all that work from raw TTYs with no problems,
as I am not forced to go into an X session if I don't want to.

I don't want to use 'systemd', as I want to run a traditional UNIX version
of Linux + KDE (or Fluxbox) for a simple single-user desktop system.

Why is running 'xorg-server' as root "heavily discouraged" ?
-- I've been doing that with Gentoo for  > 16 yr  without any problems.
AFAIK there are no problems re exploits via I/net browsers,
which are started by my user as all such user software always is.
What might go wrong, if I continue to 'startx'
with 'xorg-server' merged with 'suid -elogind'
& without the '.xinitrc' line show above in the Wiki ?

Are there any other Gentoo users who have the same preferences as me ?

-- 
,,====
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Re: [gentoo-dev] Graphics Project disbanded [pkgs up for grabs]

2020-06-07 Thread Philip Webb
200607 Pacho Ramos wrote:
> I think this is the list of completely unmaintained packages now,
> indeed most of them, around 100.
 
-- extract from list --

> media-gfx/imagemagick : 200516
> media-libs/giflib : 200312
> media-libs/libjpeg-turbo : 200328
> media-libs/openjpeg : 200328
> virtual/jpeg : 200606

There have been upgrades of all these in recent months :
dates when I upgraded on my desktop system are added (the last yesterday).
Surely, that means someone is maintaining them.
Perhaps the culprits could own up (smile).

As a long-time user, I find it disturbing
that a huge list of packages should suddenly be declared unmaintained,
esp as some of them -- eg above -- are likely needed by most users.

-- 
,,
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Re: [gentoo-dev] x11-base/xorg-server: No longer enabling suid by default.

2020-05-26 Thread Philip Webb
200526 Piotr Karbowski wrote:
> On 26/05/2020 00.34, Philip Webb wrote:
>> I'ld rather you didn't.
> You didn't provided any rationale for that.

I thought I did (smile).

> Running X as root is anti-pattern, especially nowadays
> when so little effort is required to not have to run it as root.

I've never run X as root : it's not the UNIX way.

> You can either enable elogind

Why would anyone want to abandon the long-successful UNIX method
& adopt some complex replacement ?

> or you can enable suid if you want to preserve your status quo,
> we're talking here about defaults
> that user can change if he has a reason to do so.

Yes, this is a regular problem which is unavoidable :
what should the default be ? -- I want the default to be
what it's always been & what matches basic UNIX principles.
I can add 'suid' to 'xorg-server' in  package.use ,
but why should I have to ? -- over to you for a rationale (smile).

Perhaps others can weigh in  CAD 0,02  (choose your currency) at a time.

-- 
,,====
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Re: [gentoo-dev] x11-base/xorg-server: No longer enabling suid by default.

2020-05-25 Thread Philip Webb
200525 Piotr Karbowski wrote:
> There are 3 common ways the xorg-server is started:
 ...
> - via `startx`,

That's how I've always started Xorg.

> if systemd or elogind are present,

I don't use those.

> can work without suid, without them, suid is required.
 ...
> What do you think about turning the current possible opt-out of Xorg as root
> into possible opt-in for running Xorg as root ?
 ...

I'ld rather you didn't.

-- 
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Re: [gentoo-dev] Migrate away from python-2 or not

2019-11-24 Thread Philip Webb
191124 Benda Xu wrote:
> Bug 684962 (dev-python/ipython-7.5.0: package conflicts) has demonstrated
> a painful consequence when upstream start to release python3 only versions.
> Upstream has dropped python-2.7 support in dev-python/ipython-7.5.0,
> thus there is no python_targets_python2_7 USE flag for the ebuild.
> dev-python/qtconsole, a dependant of dev-python/ipython,
> still supports python-2.7.  When qtconsole get emerged
> with USE="python_targets_python2_7 python_targets_python3_6" for example,
> old dev-python/ipython-5.8.0-r1 is drawn, resulting in conflict
> against dev-python/ipython-7.5.0.  USE=python_targets_python2_7
> had to be removed from dev-python/qtconsole to avoid it.
> If one package drops python-2.7, all its dependants
> have to drop python-2.7 even if they can work with python-2.7.
> Given the python-2 countdown deadline being 2020-01-01, a month away,
> shall we get rid of python-2?

As a user, I wb delighted to see the end of it.
It's a constant hindrance when updating some pkgs.

> If the answer is yes,
> we will need to decide on the following python-2-only packages.
> 
> ,
> | $ comm -23 <(equery -qC h python_targets_python2_7 | sort ) <(equery -qC h 
> python_targets_python3_6 | sort) 
> | dev-lang/yasm-1.3.0
> | dev-libs/libxslt-1.1.33-r1
> | dev-python/backports-functools-lru-cache-1.5
> | dev-python/enum34-1.1.6-r1
> | dev-python/functools32-3.2.3
> | dev-python/futures-3.2.0
> | dev-python/pygobject-2.28.6-r55
> | dev-python/pygtk-2.24.0-r4
> | dev-python/subprocess32-3.2.7
> | dev-util/boost-build-1.70.0
> | dev-vcs/subversion-1.12.2
> | gnome-base/libglade-2.6.4-r2
> | net-analyzer/nmap-7.70
> | sys-devel/clang-8.0.1
> | x11-wm/xpra-2.4.3
> `

On my system, I get

  root:588 portage> emerge -cpv python:2.7

  Calculating dependencies... done!
  dev-lang/python-2.7.15 pulled in by:
dev-lang/spidermonkey-60.5.2_p0-r2 requires 
>=dev-lang/python-2.7.5-r2:2.7[ncurses,sqlite,ssl,threads]
dev-qt/qtwebkit-5.212.0_pre20190629 requires >=dev-lang/python-2.7.5-r2:2.7
net-libs/nodejs-8.12.0 requires >=dev-lang/python-2.7.5-r2:2.7[threads]
net-mail/fetchmail-6.3.26-r4 requires >=dev-lang/python-2.7.5-r2:2.7[tk]
sys-devel/clang-8.0.1 requires >=dev-lang/python-2.7.5-r2:2.7
sys-devel/llvm-8.0.1 requires >=dev-lang/python-2.7.5-r2:2.7
www-client/firefox-68.2.0 requires 
dev-lang/python:2.7[ncurses,sqlite,ssl,threads(+)]

Is there eg an easy replacement for Fetchmail ?
Is there an easy way to avoid the other requirements ?

> If the answer is no, to avoid holding back new versions having only python3,
> such as bug 671796 for dev-python/matplotlib bump,
> old versions with python_targets_python2_7 and new versions without
> should be co-installable into different SLOTs.

-- 
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Re: [gentoo-dev] What means bup?

2018-07-18 Thread Philip Webb
180718 Johannes Huber wrote:
> English is not my mother language, so please clarify what 'bup' means, 
> just seen here : 
> https://gitweb.gentoo.org/repo/gentoo.git/commit/?id=ee0e0401478cf30b3ced0405f6b89391e05d2397

Surely, it's a typo for 'bump'.

As a native speaker, I've never seen it & Dictionary.com doesn't know it.
The OED is the ultimate authority on such matters,
but I don't have free access : perhaps someone else does.

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Re: [gentoo-dev] Upcoming posting restrictions on the gentoo-dev mailing list

2018-01-09 Thread Philip Webb
180109 Andreas K. Huettel wrote:
> During the last Gentoo council meeting, the decision was made
> to implement changes to the gentoo-dev mailing list [1].
> These changes affect only the gentoo-dev mailing list
> and will come into effect on 23 January 2018.
> 
> * Subscribing to the list and receiving list mail remains as it is now.
> * Posting to the list will only be possible to Gentoo developers and
>   whitelisted additional participants.
> * Whitelisting requires that one developer vouches for you. We intend this
>   to be as unbureaucratic as possible.
> * Obviously, repeated off-topic posting as well as behaviour against the
>   Code of Conduct [2] will lead to revocation of the posting permission.
> 
> If, as a non-developer, you want to participate in a discussion
> on gentoo-dev, 
> - either reply directly to the author of a list mail and ask him/her to 
> forward your message,
> - or ask any Gentoo developer of your choice to get you whitelisted.
> [1] https://projects.gentoo.org/council/meeting-logs/20171210-summary.txt
> [2] https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Project:Council/Code_of_conduct

I'm very sorry that Council approved this proposal
& hope that it will soon see sense & rescind it.
As an ordinary user since 2003, I've subscribed to user + dev lists
& have rarely encountered bad behaviour on either :
it looks as if a sledge-hammer is being used to crack a nut.
I followed the recent discussion here, but didn't offer comment,
as there seemed to be little rationale or evidence behind the proposal
& I didn't expect Council to pay any attention.

That said, I would like to be able to offer my views on the dev list,
which is likely to be rarely & will always be polite,
as I have done occasionally during the past  15 years .

Is one of the devs willing to sponsor me ?

-- 
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Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: No more stable keywords for Games

2017-11-19 Thread Philip Webb
171119 James Le Cuirot wrote:
> On Sun, 19 Nov 2017 08:50:20 -0500
> Philip Webb <purs...@ca.inter.net> wrote:
>> 171118 David Seifert wrote:
>>> As the Games team does not have enough manpower to keep tabs on all
>>> games packages, we have dropped all games-* ebuilds to unstable
>>> keywords (modulo those required by stable non-games packages).
>> Isn't this overkill in the absence of widespread bug reports for games ?
>> 'Stable' doesn't mean well-maintained,
>> but in the tree for some time & no serious bug reports.
> There are plenty of bug reports for games.

What percentage of games pkgs have bugs ?

Eg I amuse myself with  games-puzzle/sgt-puzzles ;
it is maintained upstream with regular updates.
The only unresolved bug appears to be 602696
which relates to version 20161207, which is no longer in the tree :
why is the bug still marked 'confirmed' ?  Shouldn't it be 'resolved' ?

What justification is there for marking this pkg 'unstable' ?
My guess is that there are other games pkgs with no valid bug.

Marking all games 'unstable' still seems to be overkill.

-- 
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[gentoo-dev] Re: No more stable keywords for Games

2017-11-19 Thread Philip Webb
171118 David Seifert wrote:
> As the Games team does not have enough manpower to keep tabs on all
> games packages, we have dropped all games-* ebuilds to unstable
> keywords (modulo those required by stable non-games packages).
> 
> While I accept that this will cause some irritation for the community,
> pretending we have a well supported games collection by having a wealth
> of stable games packages is misleading at best. By having 99% of games
> be unstable, we convey the expectation users should have - namely that
> games in Gentoo are not part of crucial Tier 1 packages.
> 
> We welcome contributions from outsiders willing to polish up the games
> landscape in Gentoo.

Isn't this overkill in the absence of widespread bug reports for games ?
'Stable' doesn't mean well-maintained,
but in the tree for some time & no serious bug reports.

-- 
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Re: [gentoo-dev] [RFC] Restricted version of gentoo-dev mailing list

2017-05-23 Thread Philip Webb
170523 Michał Górny wrote:
> Sadly, it is not uncommon for threads on that mailing list to turn into
> trollfests, get deranged or hijacked into completely different topics.
> Things are so bad that the mailing list stops serving its purpose. It
> involves a number of consequences:

As a user, I've been subscribed to this list since 2003
& can't remember any recent occasion -- and very few not recent --
when any such bad or damaging behaviour has happened.

Is this proposal itself not just a waste of valuable developer time
in moderating, censoring & deciding who is a sheep & who is a goat ?

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[gentoo-dev] several global use flags sb local

2016-10-10 Thread Philip Webb
161010 Andy wrote :
> On 9 October 2016 at 23:28, Mike Gilbert <flop...@gentoo.org> wrote:
>> On Sun, Oct 9, 2016 at 1:31 PM, Ayush <sixpointz...@protonmail.com> wrote:
>>> I've already raised a bug report about this issue over here [1].
>>> There are several global USE flags defined here [2] that should be local
>>> according to the this [3] definition. Some of these USE flags are -
>>>
>>> 3dfx
>>> pcntl
>>> inifile
>>> sharedmem
>>> simplexml
>>> wddx
>>> oci8-instant-client
>>> qdbm
>>> tokenizer
>>>
>>> Shouldn't these USE flags be local ?
>>> Most of them are applicable to only 2-3 packages
>>> or sometimes even a single package.
>> This would be a reasonable topic for discussion
>> on the gentoo-dev mailing list.
> I'm actually surprised those USE flags are not local.
> Except for 3dfx, I have never seen them.
> And yes, I agree, this is a topic for gentoo-dev.
> Can someone move it there somehow ?

HTH

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Re: [gentoo-dev] the graveyard overlay

2016-07-09 Thread Philip Webb
160708 Alec Warner wrote:
> On Fri, Jul 8, 2016 at 1:21 PM, Philip Webb <purs...@ca.inter.net> wrote:
>> (1) The fact that a pkg has little or no upstream support
>> or that it doesn't have an active Gentoo maintainer
>> is not a reason for removing it from the regular tree.
> So basically what you are advocating for is:
> "Having completely unmaintained packages in the tree is OK".
> And honestly, I do not buy that premise.

I went on to point out :
>> One basic reason some software is no longer being actively developed
>> is simply that they work perfectly well as they now are,
>> eg the file manager Krusader & the desktop manager Fluxbox :
>> both of these are very useful & have no drop-in replacements,
>> but very little development has occurred for several years.
>> The same is true of Xcdroast & Nethack, which have been threatened,
>> but which have been rescued after some small patches have been applied.
>> This is likely to be true of more + more pkgs, as time passes :
>> even changes in the kernel these days rarely affect desktop users.

My point here is that lack of upstream development doesn't necessarily mean
that an app is "dead", but may simply result from it's being completed.
Xcdroast simply works & had  1  obscure security problem, now fixed.
The problem with other burners is that they demand sound software,
which I have no need for on my system, so I want to go on using
the simple reliable app which has always got the job done.

> No one is trying to remove Flubox, which had a release in 2015
> and had activity in its git repo as recently as last week.

Not yet, they're not, but changes have been minimal for a long time.
Krusader had an update in Git 24 hours ago,
but the latest version is 3 years old.
It's an excellent file manager, which I rely on regularly,
but it's only "semi-alive" upstream.

> Xcdroast for example, hasn't had a release in 8 years
> and I can't even find its source tracker in Sourceforge.
> These are the sorts of packages I think are not great to have in the tree
> and for Xcdroast, if I were treecleaner lead, I would probably advocate
> for working around the security bug (dropped SUID) instead of removal.
> I do not necessarily want to remove software that people are using.

So you are saying -- perhaps correctly -- that the problem here
was not bad tree-cleaning policy, but incompetent tree-cleaning
(I don't mean to criticise whoever did it : I make mistakes too).

> That being said, I do not want unmaintained software in the tree either.

This is not black vs white : a package can be 'lightly maintained',
ie there's no regular maintainer, but equally there are no real problems
& those which exist could be fixed fairly easily, if need be.
That was the case with Xcdroast & earlier with Nethack.

So another suggestion from me for Gentoo policy
-- like recognising different categories of user --
is to create a new class of pkg called 'lightly maintained',
which would include older but still useable software,
which is no longer being actively developed, as it is largely complete.

>> (2) There are  3  basic categories of Gentoo user :
>> (a) server-farm managers, (b) multi-user sysadmins, (c) single-users.
>> Each of these have different security concerns :
>> (a) need to be alert to the many threats from all over the Internet ;
>> (b) need (among other things) to prevent privilege escalation ;
>> (c) are largely immune to those types of threat,
>> though a few of the Internet variety can affect them.
> I appreciate the argument you are trying to make,
> but I do not think it should drive Gentoo Security Policy.

Surely, it's very relevant for the reasons I have listed :
eg I don't have to worry re privilege escalation,
as I can escalate my privileges anytime I want by opening a root terminal
(no-one else has physical access to my machine).

> As my security manager used to say "security is not a race to the bottom".

Obviously true, but that's not in question here.

> Suppose :
> 1) It appears that no Gentoo developers want to maintain a package.
> 2) The software package has no active upstream.
> 3) The software has open bugs.
> 4) We mask it for years, because it has bugs and no active maintainer.
> 5) No one volunteers to proxy-maintain the software.
> You advocate we keep such software in the tree,
> because users are "too busy" or "too old" to maintain it themselves ?

Yes, I do, depending on how serious the bugs are : in the cases
of Xcdroast + Nethack, they were not serious on single-user systems.
Nor do I accept your scare quotes : most users are too busy
to be able to become developers nor should they be asked to ;
the average age of Gentoo developers seems to be around 30 years,
so

Re: [gentoo-dev] the graveyard overlay

2016-07-08 Thread Philip Webb
160708 William Hubbs wrote:
> On Fri, Jul 08, 2016 at 05:56:04PM +0300, Andrew Savchenko wrote:
>> IMO the criteria should be whether they work or not,
>> not whether upstream is more or less active.
>> If they're blockers on other work, by all means cull them.
>> However, if the biggest problem with them is
>> that they're using a few inodes in the repo, they should probably stay.
> There is an overlay for packages that are removed from the official tree
> -- https://github.com/gentoo/graveyard --
> and that is where old software should go,
> if it doesn't have an active maintainer.

A lot of this lengthy discussion is missing some basic points,
though a few people have mentioned them in passing.
As someone who has used Gentoo exclusively since 2003
& who raised the objections to removal of Xcdroast + Nethack,
let me try to get you all to focus on the real-life issues.

(1) The fact that a pkg has little or no upstream support
or that it doesn't have an active Gentoo maintainer
is not a reason for removing it from the regular tree.

One basic reason some software is no longer being actively developed
is simply that they work perfectly well as they now are,
eg the file manager Krusader & the desktop manager Fluxbox :
both of these are very useful & have no drop-in replacements,
but very little development has occurred for several years.
The same is true of Xcdroast & Nethack, which have been threatened,
but which have been rescued after some small patches have been applied.
This is likely to be true of more + more pkgs, as time passes :
even changes in the kernel these days rarely affect desktop users.

(2) There are  3  basic categories of Gentoo user :
(a) server-farm managers, (b) multi-user sysadmins, (c) single-users.
Each of these have different security concerns :
(a) need to be alert to the many threats from all over the Internet ;
(b) need (among other things) to prevent privilege escalation ;
(c) are largely immune to those types of threat,
though a few of the Internet variety can affect them.

The security objections raised against Xcdroast + Nethack
were both problems which would arise only on multi-user systems,
yet single-users were also to be deprived of access to them.
Perhaps part of the problem is that many Gentoo developers
also earn their livings as sysadmins with many users or many servers :
the simpler happier world of single-users escapes their attention.

(3) Users generally don't want to be developers : they're too busy or too old.
Asking them "Are you willing to maintain it yourself ?" is a silly excuse ;
offering them the chance to dig around in a graveyard is even worse ;
even maintaining an overlay is a nuisance : I tried it with KDE Sunset.
Neither Xcdroast nor Nethack belong in a graveyard of any kind :
once the obscure security problems have been fixed,
they belong in the regular tree marked 'stable',
like many other pkgs whose development has been completed.

Users all do -- or should -- appreciate the unpaid work of the developers,
but developers also need to realise that without non-developer users
Gentoo would very quickly die & their justified pride + satisfaction die too.

(4) I have  3  simple recommendations to fix the everyday problems.

(a) the justification for tree-cleaning should be explicitly
that a pkg either (i) won't compile, (ii) crashes when run
or (iii) has a serious security hole which affects all  3  types of user.

(b) there needs to be a developer role 'General Maintainer',
who should be available to look at pkgs which have no regular maintainer,
but which compile, run properly & are generally secure :
their job would be to step in, like Mr Savchenko -- thanks again -- ,
to fix small problems which would otherwise be neglected ;
less formally, all developers might see it as part of their role
to help out occasionally with such small problems.

(c) Gentoo's rules + policies need explicitly to reflect the fact
that there are  3  types of user, as described :
eg some pkgs might be marked as 'not safe for multi-user systems' ;
that would recognise real distinctions which are now being ignored.

HTH & thanks as always to all of you for making Gentoo work since 2003.

-- 
,,====
SUPPORT ___//___,   Philip Webb
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TRANSIT`-O--O---'   purslowatchassdotutorontodotca




Re: [gentoo-dev] usr merge

2016-04-09 Thread Philip Webb
160409 Canek Peláez Valdés wrote:
> On Sat, Apr 9, 2016 at 2:49 PM, Philip Webb <purs...@ca.inter.net> wrote:
>> I've always used Lilo, which is simple + reliable :
>> I never see questions re it here, but there are many re Grub.
>> I do use recent hardware, a cutting-edge machine I built  6 mth ago .
>> When setting it up, I suppressed UEFI in the BIOS settings :
>> isn't that what anyone not running M$ would do ?
> I just disabled secure boot, although it's possible to use it with Linux.
> However, it would require to manually sign everything from boot loader
> to kernel modules, since Gentoo has no infrastructure to do that.
> I don't "supress" UEFI, since it's *obviously* so much better than BIOS
> and since bootctl (the program formerly known as gummiboot)
> it's incredible easy to use. You don't even notice it's there.

Sorry, I meant "suppress secure boot".  My mobo doesn't have UEFI.

> I believe there are motherboards where you don't have the option
> to "supress" UEFI, since they simply don't have BIOS anymore.
> Seriously, UEFI is s much better.

Thanks for the enlightment (smile).

Can you or anyone else answer my other question re the origin of the thread ?
-- ie is this a revival of not putting  /usr  on its own partition
or is it a new proposal to alter the file system in some other way ?

-- 
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Re: [gentoo-dev] usr merge

2016-04-09 Thread Philip Webb
160409 Canek Peláez Valdés wrote:
> You use LILO : that means, you don't use UEFI :
> that means, almost certainly, you don't use recent hardware.

I've always used Lilo, which is simple + reliable :
I never see questions re it here, but there are many re Grub.
I do use recent hardware, a cutting-edge machine I built  6 mth ago .
When setting it up, I suppressed UEFI in the BIOS settings :
isn't that what anyone not running M$ would do ?
 
> Gentoo devs only are saying that if by having separated /usr
> without an initramfs, you risk screwing your system.

I haven't been reading this long thread -- merely skimming some of it -- ,
& I missed or didn't understand what is being proposed or imposed.
There was an issue earlier re not having  /use  on a separate partition
& both my machines have it on the same partition as  / .
Is this thread re that earlier matter or is it a new item ?

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Re: [gentoo-dev] tcltk herd empty

2015-10-02 Thread Philip Webb
Daniel Campbell <z...@gentoo.org> napisał(a):
> I know next to nothing about tcl/tk but it's been an idle curiosity.
> Are there any particularly important packages that run on them?

All my pkgs which requre it have USE flag 'tk' set (compare Dale's list).
I have it set in  make.conf  for whatever reason (something long ago ? ).
Perhaps if I dropped it there, everything would work just as well.

-- 
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Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Automated Package Removal and Addition Tracker, for the week ending 2015-09-06 23:59 UTC

2015-09-08 Thread Philip Webb
Robin H. Johnson posted on Mon, 07 Sep 2015 23:54:36 + as excerpted:
> I've been travelling a lot the past month (Helsinki, LA, Seattle)
> and it's on my list of stuff to do
> along with finalize and announce the migrated git history.

Others may have concerns, but I'm simply grateful for what Gentoo devs do,
esp the demanding + critical work of migrating to Git.

I envy your travels & hope you had time
to appreciate Helsinki's trams, LA's LRT & Seattle's trolleybuses (smile).

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Re: [gentoo-dev] Automated Package Removal and Addition Tracker, for the week ending 2015-08-23 23:59 UTC

2015-08-25 Thread Philip Webb
150825 malc wrote:
 On Tue, Aug 25, 2015 at 4:17 AM, Philip Webb purs...@ca.inter.net wrote:
 Is there any possibility they could be sorted alphabetically ?
 Yup, good suggestion. Updated wrapper attached - output now looks like:

-- snip --

Thanks.

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Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Excessive rsync time after git migration

2015-08-22 Thread Philip Webb
150815 Holger Hoffstätte wrote:
 On Sat, 15 Aug 2015 15:29:21 -0400, Joshua Kinard wrote:
 I've been super-busy as of late and just recently ran 'emerge --sync'
 on my main dev box for the first time after the git migration.
 I just synced my main dev box again, ~10 hours after the last sync,
 but it looks like the 'Manifest' files for *every* package in the tree
 are getting downloaded with each sync.
 https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=557192

I've just done my weekly 'eix-sync', which took  c 2 min :
it seems smoother than in CVS days  lack the lengthy 'metadata' list.
The problem seems to have been solved : thanks to whoever fixed it.

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Re: [gentoo-dev] last rites: obsolete Perl virtuals virtual/perl-CGI virtual/perl-Module-Build virtual/perl-Module-Pluggable

2015-06-14 Thread Philip Webb
150614 Andreas K. Huettel wrote:
 # * If you have any of these virtuals installed, uninstall
 #   (depclean) them.
 # * If the virtuals are required by some overlay package, that is
 #   a bug in the overlay; the overlay ebuild should now depend on
 #   the new dev-perl ebuild.
 virtual/perl-Module-Build

root:500 ~ emerge -cpv perl-Module-Build

Calculating dependencies... done!
  virtual/perl-Module-Build-0.420.500-r2 pulled in by:
dev-perl/Error-0.170.210 requires =virtual/perl-Module-Build-0.420.500-r2, 
=virtual/perl-Module-Build-0.390.0
dev-perl/File-BaseDir-0.30.0-r1 requires virtual/perl-Module-Build, 
=virtual/perl-Module-Build-0.420.500-r2
dev-perl/File-DesktopEntry-0.40.0-r1 requires 
=virtual/perl-Module-Build-0.420.500-r2, virtual/perl-Module-Build
dev-perl/File-MimeInfo-0.210.0 requires 
=virtual/perl-Module-Build-0.420.500-r2, virtual/perl-Module-Build
media-gfx/graphite2-1.2.4-r1 requires 
=virtual/perl-Module-Build-0.420.500-r2, virtual/perl-Module-Build

root:501 ~ emerge -cpv Error File-BaseDir File-DesktopEntry File-MimeInfo 
graphite2

Calculating dependencies... done!
  dev-perl/Error-0.170.210 pulled in by:
dev-vcs/git-2.3.6 requires dev-perl/Error

  dev-perl/File-BaseDir-0.30.0-r1 pulled in by:
dev-perl/File-DesktopEntry-0.40.0-r1 requires =dev-perl/File-BaseDir-0.03
dev-perl/File-MimeInfo-0.210.0 requires =dev-perl/File-BaseDir-0.03

  dev-perl/File-DesktopEntry-0.40.0-r1 pulled in by:
dev-perl/File-MimeInfo-0.210.0 requires =dev-perl/File-DesktopEntry-0.04

  media-gfx/graphite2-1.2.4-r1 pulled in by:
app-office/libreoffice-4.4.3.2 requires media-gfx/graphite2

  dev-perl/File-MimeInfo-0.210.0 pulled in by:
x11-misc/xdg-utils-1.1.0_rc2 requires dev-perl/File-MimeInfo

Any further advice ?

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Re: [gentoo-dev] last rites: obsolete virtual/perl-Module-Build

2015-06-14 Thread Philip Webb
150614 Andreas K. Huettel wrote:
 Am Sonntag, 14. Juni 2015, 21:53:35 schrieb Philip Webb:
 * either switch dynamic dependencies back on (you have it off, right?)
 * or make a global emerge --changed-deps ... run
 -- output --
 root:502 ~ emerge --changed-deps -p world
 These are the packages that would be merged, in order:
 Calculating dependencies... done!
 [...]
 [blocks B  ] kde-base/libkdegames (kde-base/libkdegames is blocking
 kde-apps/libkdegames-4.14.3)
 Not related, and I fear there's not much we can do here.
 libkdegames got moved to kde-apps everywhere else,
 also preparing the migration towards KF 5 and I have absolutely no clue
 how to keep kde-sunset functional with these recent main tree changes.

Yes, this is a quite separate issue, wh came up recently in another thread.
3.5.10 continues to work in its old dir :

  root:507 ~ eix libkdegames
[?] kde-apps/libkdegames
Available versions:  (4) 4.14.3(4/4.14) {aqua debug openal}
Installed versions:  3.5.10(3.5)[1]([2012-10-30 21:28:23])(-debug 
-kdehiddenvisibility ELIBC=-FreeBSD) 4.14.3(4)([2014-12-13 20:50:26])(-aqua 
-debug -openal)

but there wb a problem, if I tried to re-install it :

  root:509 ~ emerge -pv =kde-base/libkdegames-3.5.10
These are the packages that would be merged, in order:
Calculating dependencies... done!
  [ebuild  N ] kde-base/libkdegames-3.5.10:3.5::kde-sunset  USE=-debug 
-kdehiddenvisibility 0 KiB
  [blocks B  ] kde-base/libkdegames (kde-base/libkdegames is blocking 
kde-apps/libkdegames-4.14.3)
Total: 1 package (1 new), Size of downloads: 0 KiB
Conflict: 1 block (1 unsatisfied)
  * Error: The above package list contains packages which cannot be
  * installed at the same time on the same system.
  (kde-apps/libkdegames-4.14.3:4/4.14::gentoo, installed) pulled in by
  =kde-apps/libkdegames-4.14.3:4[aqua=] 
(=kde-apps/libkdegames-4.14.3:4[-aqua]) required by 
(kde-apps/kshisen-4.14.3:4/4.14::gentoo, installed)

  (kde-base/libkdegames-3.5.10:3.5/3.5::kde-sunset, ebuild scheduled for 
merge) pulled in by
  =kde-base/libkdegames-3.5.10
  =kde-base/libkdegames-3.5.10:3.5 required by 
(kde-base/ksokoban-3.5.10:3.5/3.5::kde-sunset, installed)

So leave well alone for now  see what cb done when I build a new machine.

 There's no mention here of Libreoffice, which requires Graphite2,
 which requires  virtual/perl-Module-Build ,
 as shown in the complete output I pasted into my previous msg.
 I guess you don't have to re-emerge libreoffice,
 but you would have to re-emerge graphite2.
 (The only point of the re-emerging here is to update
 the metadata (dependencies) stored in the VDB.)
 Maybe this works better if you add a -D to the emerge call ?
 I have no experience with --changed-deps,
 since I've been running dynamic-deps all the time. 

I tried dynamic-deps earlier, but it led to even more confusing output.

I can only repeat my --  others' -- plea to all the devs
to try to make Emerge output more understandable for ordinary users.

Thanks for your prompt + patient replies (smile).

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Re: [gentoo-dev] last rites: obsolete virtual/perl-Module-Build

2015-06-14 Thread Philip Webb
150614 Andreas K. Huettel wrote:
 Am Sonntag, 14. Juni 2015, 17:19:11 schrieb Philip Webb:
 150614 Andreas K. Huettel wrote:
 # * If you have any of these virtuals installed, uninstall
 #   (depclean) them.
 # * If the virtuals are required by some overlay package, that is
 #   a bug in the overlay; the overlay ebuild should now depend on
 #   the new dev-perl ebuild.
 virtual/perl-Module-Build
 root:500 ~ emerge -cpv perl-Module-Build
 Calculating dependencies... done!
   virtual/perl-Module-Build-0.420.500-r2 pulled in by:
 dev-perl/Error-0.170.210 requires
 =virtual/perl-Module-Build-0.420.500-r2,
 =virtual/perl-Module-Build-0.390.0 dev-perl/File-BaseDir-0.30.0-r1
 * either switch dynamic dependencies back on (you have it off, right?)
 * or make a global emerge --changed-deps ... run

-- output --

root:502 ~ emerge --changed-deps -p world
These are the packages that would be merged, in order:
Calculating dependencies... done!
[ebuild   R] sys-apps/baselayout-2.2 
[ebuild  N ] games-misc/games-envd-0 
[ebuild  N ] sys-apps/iproute2-3.19.0  USE=-atm -berkdb -iptables -ipv6 
-minimal (-selinux) 
[ebuild   R] sys-devel/binutils-2.24-r3 
[ebuild   R] x11-misc/xearth-1.1-r1 
[ebuild UD ] app-editors/vim-core-7.4.273 [7.4.622]
[ebuild  N ] virtual/service-manager-0  USE=(-prefix) 
[ebuild   R] net-mail/fetchmail-6.3.26-r2 
[ebuild   R] virtual/modutils-0 
[ebuild UD ] app-editors/vim-7.4.273 [7.4.622] 
PYTHON_SINGLE_TARGET=-python2_7% -python3_3% python3_4%* 
[ebuild   R] app-portage/gentoolkit-0.3.0.9-r2 
[ebuild UD ] app-editors/gvim-7.4.273 [7.4.622] 
PYTHON_SINGLE_TARGET=-python2_7% -python3_3% python3_4%* 
[ebuild   R] app-editors/leafpad-0.8.18.1 
[ebuild   R] net-dialup/ppp-2.4.7 
[ebuild   R] games-puzzle/sgt-puzzles-9861 
[ebuild   R] games-misc/gtklife-5.1 
[ebuild   R] app-admin/gkrellm-2.3.5-r3 
[ebuild   R] app-portage/layman-2.0.0-r3 
[ebuild   R] virtual/dev-manager-0 
[ebuild   R] sys-fs/udev-216 
[ebuild   R] games-board/pasang-emas-3.1.0 
[ebuild   R] games-sports/foobillard-3.0a 
[ebuild   R] net-print/hplip-3.14.10  USE=-kde* 
[ebuild  N ] kde-base/libkdegames-3.5.10  USE=-debug -kdehiddenvisibility 
[ebuild   R] kde-base/ksokoban-3.5.10 
[ebuild   R] kde-misc/krename-4.0.9-r3 
[ebuild   R] kde-apps/kuiserver-4.14.3 
[ebuild   R] kde-apps/filelight-4.14.3 
[ebuild   R] kde-apps/kruler-4.14.3 
[ebuild   R] kde-apps/kdebase-kioslaves-4.14.3 
[ebuild   R] kde-apps/keditbookmarks-4.14.3 
[ebuild   R] kde-apps/kwrite-4.14.3 
[ebuild   R] kde-apps/kshisen-4.14.3 
[ebuild   R] kde-misc/krusader-2.4.0_beta3-r1 
[ebuild   R] kde-apps/kwordquiz-4.14.3 
[ebuild   R] kde-apps/okular-4.14.3 
[ebuild   R] kde-apps/konsole-4.14.3 
[ebuild   R] kde-apps/gwenview-4.14.3 
[ebuild   R] www-client/rekonq-2.4.2-r1  USE=-kde* 
[blocks B  ] kde-base/libkdegames (kde-base/libkdegames is blocking 
kde-apps/libkdegames-4.14.3)

 * Error: The above package list contains packages which cannot be
 * installed at the same time on the same system.

  (kde-base/libkdegames-3.5.10:3.5/3.5::kde-sunset, ebuild scheduled for merge) 
pulled in by
=kde-base/libkdegames-3.5.10:3.5 required by 
(kde-base/ksokoban-3.5.10:3.5/3.5::kde-sunset, ebuild scheduled for merge)

  (kde-apps/libkdegames-4.14.3:4/4.14::gentoo, installed) pulled in by
=kde-apps/libkdegames-4.14.3:4[aqua=] 
(=kde-apps/libkdegames-4.14.3:4[-aqua]) required by 
(kde-apps/kshisen-4.14.3:4/4.14::gentoo, ebuild scheduled for merge)

-- end of output --

There's no mention here of Libreoffice, which requires Graphite2,
which requires  virtual/perl-Module-Build ,
as shown in the complete output I pasted into my previous msg.
Therefore, it looks as if my system would still require that virtual,
even after going thro' the lengthy exercise above.

(The KDE block seems odd, as libkdegames-3.5.10 is in Kde-Sunset overlay :
I assume that block isn't relevant to my query re the Perl virtual)

Please remember that users often find emerge output difficult to interpret,
even if it's all perfectly clear to a well-trained dev (smile).

-- 
,,
SUPPORT ___//___,   Philip Webb
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TRANSIT`-O--O---'   purslowatchassdotutorontodotca




Re: [gentoo-dev] LFS QA warnings coming soon to a build near you

2015-05-31 Thread Philip Webb
150531 Diego Elio Pettenò wrote:
 Mike, thanks for doing this, it has been a pain in my shoe since 2008
 https://blog.flameeyes.eu/2008/11/who-wants-to-support-largefile.

Do users with 64-bit systems have to pay attention to this ?

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[gentoo-dev] shouldn't eselect be in app-eselect ?

2015-04-04 Thread Philip Webb
I read the recent thread re the new app-eselect.
Doing my weekly system update,
it strikes me that 'eselect' itself sb there too.

Time to paint the bikesheds again ... (smile)

-- 
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Re: [gentoo-dev] shouldn't eselect be in app-eselect ?

2015-04-04 Thread Philip Webb
150404 Alex Brandt wrote:
 On Saturday, April 04, 2015 14:41:37 Philip Webb wrote:
 I read the recent thread re the new app-eselect.
 Doing my weekly system update,
 it strikes me that 'eselect' itself sb there too.
 Time to paint the bikesheds again ... (smile)
 I don't disagree but will simply point out that if this becomes true,
 we should also move dev-lang/python to dev-python,
 dev-lang/ruby to dev-ruby  dev-lang/perl to dev-perl (not exhaustive).

No (and to the other objectors' lists):
there are many computer languages, but there is only  1  'eselect'.
The eselect set-up is unique within Gentoo,
which makes it natural to put it all under  1  category.

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Re: [gentoo-dev] qa last rites -- long list

2015-01-07 Thread Philip Webb
150106 William Hubbs wrote:
 Many packages have been masked in the tree for months - years
 with no signs of fixes.  I am particularly concerned
 about packages with known security vulnerabilities
 staying in the main tree masked.  If people want to keep those packages,
 I don't want to stop them, but packages like this should be in an overlay,
 not the main tree.

-- snip --

 # Tavis Ormandy tav...@gentoo.org (21 Mar 2006)
 # masked pending unresolved security issues #125902
 games-roguelike/nethack

-- snip --

This one is perfectly safe on a single-user system : please leave it there.

-- 
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Re: [gentoo-dev] qa last rites -- long list

2015-01-07 Thread Philip Webb
150107 William Hubbs wrote:
 On Wed, Jan 07, 2015 at 06:49:56AM -0500, Philip Webb wrote:
 150106 William Hubbs wrote:
 Many packages have been masked in the tree for months - years
 with no signs of fixes.  I am particularly concerned
 about packages with known security vulnerabilities
 staying in the main tree masked.  If people want to keep those packages,
 I don't want to stop them, but packages like this should be in an overlay,
 not the main tree.
 -- snip --
  # Tavis Ormandy tav...@gentoo.org (21 Mar 2006)
  # masked pending unresolved security issues #125902
  games-roguelike/nethack
 -- snip --
 This one is perfectly safe on a single-user system : please leave it there.
 I'm not opposed to it staying in the tree under one of these conditions:
 1) fix it and remove the mask or

I'm a user, not a dev or a programmer.

 2) remove the mask and add ewarns to the ebuild

That looks more reasonable  something a dev could easily do.

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Re: [gentoo-dev] Are users forced to use PAM?

2014-10-05 Thread Philip Webb
141005 Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
 In bug 524074 (https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=524074),
 Joshua Kinard mentioned that Gentoo cannot support systems
 where PAM isn't installed.  I'd like to know whether this is true or not,
 especially since no part of the system seems to actually require it.
 The issue at hand is that sudo links against -lshadow,
 which should not happen
 and therefore that link command sb removed from the build.

I don't have Pam installed nor Sudo.
I start my USE flags with '-*' (yes, I know ... (smile)).

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Re: [gentoo-dev] Packages looking for new maintainers.

2014-05-14 Thread Philip Webb
140515 Chema Alonso wrote:
 On Thu, May 08, 2014 at 07:07:33AM +0300, Alex Alexander wrote:
 I've dropped myself from the maintainer list in the following packages.
 Feel free to pick them up if you use them, they deserve better :)
 app-misc/vifm
 I'll take this one.

Thanks from a user : Vifm is quick  quite versatile.

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Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Request of news item review: 2013-03-29-udev-predictable-network-interface-names.en.txt : SOLVED

2013-04-01 Thread Philip Webb
130401 Markos Chandras wrote:
 On 1 April 2013 02:56, Philip Webb purs...@ca.inter.net wrote:
 I have sent a msg to gentoo-user describing how to solve this problem.
 Perhaps it needs to be mentioned in the news item or wiki entry.
 So you broke the threading on the original email,
 you deleted all the previous content,
 you did not write an appropriate title for your e-mail
 and then you claim you solved a problem
 without mentioning what the problem was.

Your response is completely out of place  very impolite.
I am trying to help improve Gentoo documentation
 help other users who may face the same problem,
but without taking unnecessary space on the dev-list.
I am not happy with the way the Udev-200 update has been documented,
but I haven't criticised the developer responsible.

Please take the trouble to read what I sent to the user-list :

  Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2013 21:54:08 -0400
  From: Philip Webb purs...@ca.inter.net
  To: Gentoo User gentoo-u...@lists.gentoo.org
  Subject: [gentoo-user] Udev 200 : dhcpcd problem + solution
  Message-ID: 20130401015408.ga...@ca.inter.net

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Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Request of news item review: 2013-03-29-udev-predictable-network-interface-names.en.txt

2013-03-31 Thread Philip Webb
130331 Samuli Suominen offered prompt + polite help re Udev 200 :

Thanks.  In fact, it's a bit more complex than I thought yesterday.
After moving the '70 80' files into a subdirectory  restarting, I get :

  root:501 ~ dhcpcd
dhcpcd[830]: version 5.6.4 starting
... [nothing happens for  10 s ]
^C
... [long delay till machine responds]
dhcpcd[830]: no interfaces have a carrier
dhcpcd[830]: forked to background, child pid 857
  root:502 ~ dhcpcd
dhcpcd[864]: version 5.6.4 starting
dhcpcd[864]: enp5s0: sending IPv6 Router Solicitation
dhcpcd[864]: enp5s0: rebinding lease of 192.168.1.2
dhcpcd[864]: enp5s0: NAK: from 192.168.1.1
dhcpcd[864]: enp5s0: sending IPv6 Router Solicitation
dhcpcd[864]: enp5s0: broadcasting for a lease
dhcpcd[864]: enp5s0: offered 192.168.1.2 from 192.168.1.1
dhcpcd[864]: enp5s0: acknowledged 192.168.1.2 from 192.168.1.1
dhcpcd[864]: enp5s0: checking for 192.168.1.2
dhcpcd[864]: enp5s0: sending IPv6 Router Solicitation
dhcpcd[864]: enp5s0: leased 192.168.1.2 for 86400 seconds
dhcpcd[864]: forked to background, child pid 888
 
The same happens if I try 'dhcpcd enp5s0',
except that the 1st reply is enp5s0 : removing interface.
The name 'enp5s0' has shown up after   1  restart,
so that seems to be what my kernel (gentoo-sources 3.5.3) calls it.

So I've done what I understand to be recommended,
but have to go thro' a stutter before I can get the I/net working.

I really don't want to have to spend an hour or more
reading docs which are largely irrelevant to my very simple case,
ie  1  network card accessing an ordinary ISP.

Further advice is very welcome  I hope I'm helping clarify things
for others trying who try to follow the news item
 also helping the developer improve his docs.

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Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Request of news item review: 2013-03-29-udev-predictable-network-interface-names.en.txt : SOLVED

2013-03-31 Thread Philip Webb
I have sent a msg to gentoo-user describing how to solve this problem.
Perhaps it needs to be mentioned in the news item or wiki entry.

-- 
,,
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Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Request of news item review: 2013-03-29-udev-predictable-network-interface-names.en.txt

2013-03-30 Thread Philip Webb
130329 Samuli Suominen wrote:
 Attached new version again, more generic than before.

I find this difficult to decipher.  Who is it aimed at ?

I've just updated to Udev 200 .  Following the news item,
I renamed  /etc/udev/rules.d/70-persistent-net.rules :
my script to start my I/net connection with DHCP failed.
I restored the file to its old name  all works as usual :
it has 'NAME=eth0'.

I am always aware of  grateful for the unpaid efforts of Gentoo devs,
but I'm not pleased with confused or confusing news items.

The first thing any news item should make clear is its audience :
If you are using ABC or belong to the group describable as DEF,
then you need to do GHI.  Clearly, I don't fall into the group
at whom the Udev news item is aimed, perhaps those with   1  net card.
What proportion of Gentoo users fall into that group ?

HTH improve news items.

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[gentoo-dev] licensing query : Splice

2013-03-29 Thread Philip Webb
I noticed a couple of games which have been added to the tree
 thought it worth giving them a try.  One of them resulted in this :

  root:512 ~ emerge -pv games-puzzle/splice
These are the packages that would be merged, in order:
Calculating dependencies... done!
[ebuild  N F   ] games-puzzle/splice-20121120  298,671 kB
Total: 1 package (1 new), Size of downloads: 298,671 kB
Fetch Restriction: 1 package (1 unsatisfied)
Fetch instructions for games-puzzle/splice-20121120:
* Please buy  download splice-linux-1353389454.tar.gz from:
*   http://www.cipherprime.com/games/splice/
* and move it to /usr/portage/distfiles

I've never seen this before in  10 years  using Gentoo.
Has anyone verified that Splice's licence is compatible with Gentoo ?

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Re: [gentoo-dev] New install isos needed

2013-03-24 Thread Philip Webb
130324 Ben de Groot wrote:
 On 24 March 2013 09:17, Dale rdalek1...@gmail.com wrote:
 Andreas K. Huettel wrote:
 Seriously. SystemRescueCD is more or less exactly what we would need.
 I must confess, I have not used the official Gentoo ISOs in ages.
 I use the SystemRescueCD from a USB stick all the time.
 Me too. Our minimal CD is too minimal for my tastes

For my latest install 2012-09 I used SRCD + Stage3 + Portage-latest.
SRCD has all the tools anyone might need.

 Maybe we could do a co-branded edition once in a while?

That wb an excellent come-on to get new people to try Gentoo.

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Re: [gentoo-dev] /var/run or /run for init scripts?

2013-02-06 Thread Philip Webb
130206 Diego Elio Pettenò wrote:
 On 06/02/2013 14:58, Markos Chandras wrote:
 Would it made sense to symlink /var/run - /run
 so we don't end up with stable entries in /var/run directory?
 I would say that we should have that symlink
 and I told WilliamH so before.

FWIW I have :

  root:505 ~ ls -l /var/run
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 4 Jun 20  2012 /var/run - /run
  root:506 ~ equery b /var/run
* Searching for /var/run ...
sys-apps/dbus-1.6.8 (/var/run)

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Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Please stop useless removals

2013-02-01 Thread Philip Webb
130201 Rich Freeman wrote:
 On Fri, Feb 1, 2013 at 10:51 AM, Richard Yao r...@gentoo.org wrote:
 The actual reason for removal is the following:
   https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=425298
 I'm perfectly fine with masking/removing packages
 that do not have valid SRC_URIs
 and if somebody wants to host the tarball somewhere
 and submit a patch to fix it we shouldn't have a problem
 with a dev committing that patch and prolonging the package a bit longer.
 Bottom line is that we shouldn't drop packages
 simply because they're unmaintained or lack an upstream.

+1

 Missing SRC_URIs on unmaintained packages are fair game, however,
 as are other serious issues.  I have no desire
 to make the mirror maintainers sort thro log noise on something like this.

If a mere user may comment (smile),
I use  = 1  pkg which hasn't been updated for a long time, Apwal,
but is in fact an excellent little app which deserves wider knowledge.
It's one of those apps which needs no further development.

There are also pkgs like Nethack, which is hard-masked
because there's a serious security bug on multi-user systems,
but which offers no problems on a single-user desktop.

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Re: [gentoo-dev] news item for udev 197-r3 upgrade (yes, I know, it's late)

2013-01-23 Thread Philip Webb
130123 Samuli Suominen wrote:
 please review this news item, seems we need one after all
 ...
 - The need of CONFIG_DEVTMPFS=y in the kernel; need to verify the fstype for
   possible /dev line in /etc/fstab is devtmpfs (and not, for example, tmpfs)
 ...

I have  2  such lines :

  tmpfs /tmptmpfs   
defaults,noatime,mode=1777  0 0
  none  /dev/shmtmpfs   defaults
0 0

Are either or both involved ? -- if so, what to do ?

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Re: [gentoo-dev] USE flags dri, cups, pppd

2013-01-19 Thread Philip Webb
On Sat, Jan 19, 2013 at 3:18 AM, Ben de Groot yng...@gentoo.org wrote:
 I'm not sure whether we need to keep cups at all.
 I haven't printed anything from my personal PC or laptop in years.

As a user, I'ld say this wb a very unpopular move with some of us.
I rarely use my 2nd-hand 1995 printer, but sometimes it is essential :
eg I now need to print letters to  2  friends abroad who don't have e-mail
 occasionally I need to print forms downloaded from the Internet
for tax purposes or to get mail-in refunds on things I bought.
I don't have access to an office printer
 when last asked, my neighbour reported his printer broken.

Please continue to support Cups.

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Re: [gentoo-dev] RFC: new qt category

2013-01-19 Thread Philip Webb
130119 Ben de Groot wrote:
 On 19 January 2013 21:46, Patrick Lauer patr...@gentoo.org wrote:
 Maybe lib-qt ? dev-qt sounds confusing to me too, what's dev about it?
 These are libraries and applications
 that are used by developers of end-user applications.

They are also encountered by users when updating KDE etc.

 If there is too much opposition to a simple qt category
 -- at least there seems to be some quite vocal opposition -- ,
 then dev-qt is in my eyes the next best alternative.

'qt' alone is inconsistent with the rest of the tree.

 A third option we came up with is qt-framework.

Too long to type  again no parallel in the existing tree.

 Somewhat comparable categories in the current tree
 are dev-dotnet and gnustep-{base,libs}.

Flame-eyes' suggestion is simple, consistent  involves least change :
'x11-qt/qt-core' 'x11-qt/qt-gui' etc.  Please do it like that.

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Re: [gentoo-dev] UEFI secure boot and Gentoo

2012-06-15 Thread Philip Webb
120615 Greg KH wrote:
 On Fri, Jun 15, 2012 at 01:48:05AM -0400, Philip Webb wrote:
 Does this affect those of us who build our own machines ?
 Yes, it will be on your new motherboard in a matter of months.

I am going to build a new machine some time in the next  12 mth ,
but it looks as if all I will have to do is reset the BIOS ,
which I'm likely to have to do for other features in any case.

 Is there likely to be any Gentoo user
 who is reluctant to change the default BIOS setting ?
 Probably lots.

That surprises me, but we'll find out.

 How can UEFI be required for Arm without running into anti-trust ?
 Different countries have different rules here.

Discussion + news items in the press do suggest
that it's not anti-trust as long as it's not benefitting  1  company.
Anyway, I'm not likely to be using ARM, let alone jailbreaking it.

 How far is this basically a problem for those in the USA,
 the rest of us having a different attitude to security issues ?
 Everyone in all countries are going to have to deal with this,
 as all motherboard manufacturers are going to be supporting this
 by the end of 2012 at the latest, due to the Windows 8 requirements.

As with other similar issues in the past,
we can expect the EU antitrust people to take a close look at it
 they may start demanding that computers are easily unlockable,
if not actually required to be sold with UEFI disabled by default.
Despite current scare stories out of London  New York,
the EU is by no means finished as a political entity
 no-one in USA should assume the EU will follow their lead
or even that Canada will, despite our current Conservative government.

I see a need for careful thought at Gentoo, but no need for panic.

Thanks for your horse's mouth (smile).

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Re: [gentoo-dev] UEFI secure boot and Gentoo

2012-06-14 Thread Philip Webb
120614 Greg KH wrote:
 So, anyone been thinking about this?  I have, and it's not pretty.
 Should I worry about this and how it affects Gentoo
 or not worry about Gentoo right now and just focus on the other issues?
 Minor details like, do we have a 'company' that can pay Microsoft
 to sign our bootloader? is one aspect from the non-technical side.
 I did a lot of UEFI secure boot work in the past at SUSE
 and should be soon a member of the UEFI organization
 through my work at the Linux Foundation, so I do have a basic grasp
 of the issues involved and have a chance to get changes made,
 if needed and possible, to the spec itself.

Does this affect those of us who build our own machines ?
Is there likely to be any Gentoo user
who is reluctant to change the default BIOS setting ?
How can UEFI be required for Arm without running into anti-trust ?
How far is this basically a problem for those in the USA,
the rest of us having a different attitude to security issues ?

-- 
,,
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Re: [gentoo-dev] Last rites: x11-apps/xsetmode x11-apps/xsetpointer

2012-04-22 Thread Philip Webb
120422 Michał Górny wrote:
 # Michał Górny mgo...@gentoo.org (22 Apr 2012)
 # Obsolete and unmaintained. Their functions are provided by
 # x11-apps/xinput nowadays ('xinput set-mode' and 'xinput set-pointer'
 # respectively). Bug #411999. Masked for removal in 30 days.
 x11-apps/xsetmode
 x11-apps/xsetpointer
 =x11-base/xorg-x11-7.4-r1

Do I go ahead  'emerge -C xsetmode' ?  Will  xorg-x11  survive ?

root:554 linux emerge -cpv xsetmode

Calculating dependencies... done!
  x11-apps/xsetmode-1.0.0 pulled in by:
x11-base/xorg-x11-7.4-r1

root:555 linux eix xorg-x11
[I] x11-base/xorg-x11
 Available versions:  7.4-r1
 Installed versions:  7.4-r1([2009-10-04 19:10:48])

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Re: [gentoo-dev] Last rites: x11-apps/xsetmode x11-apps/xsetpointer

2012-04-22 Thread Philip Webb
120422 Samuli Suominen wrote:
 xorg-x11 is a empty 'meta package' which doesn't install anything
 you don't even need it -- most people just install xorg-server thesedays 
 to avoid dozens of unnecessary dependencies

So it is.  Thanks.  I've removed both pkgs.

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Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Let's redesign the entire filesystem!

2012-03-14 Thread Philip Webb
120314 Greg KH wrote:
 if you have /usr on a different filesystem today, with no initrd,
 your machine could be broken and you don't even know it.

Whatever do you mean ? -- if it were truly broken,
it wouldn't perform in some important  obvious respect.
Do you mean insecure ? -- if so, what is the threat ?

 greg why is this thread still alive k-h

Your dismissive response is perhaps one reason ...

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Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Dropping localepurge

2012-01-31 Thread Philip Webb
120130 »Q« wrote:
 I'll start filing bugs (as time permits - this doesn't seem like an
 urgent issue to me) and see what happens.
 Today's offender was webkit, putting a lot of stuff
 in /usr/share/locale/*/LC_MESSAGES/

I've filed bugs 401525 + 401563 for Rekonq + Sane-backends.
I plan to run 'localepurge' every week after I've done a system update
 submit further bugs for each offending pkg.

At least for now, 'localepurge' makes this process much easier,
so it should remain available until all offenders have been reported.

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Re: [gentoo-dev] Dropping localepurge

2012-01-30 Thread Philip Webb
120129 Mike Frysinger wrote:
 On Sunday 29 January 2012 00:01:50 Philip Webb wrote:
 Below is the output from 'localepurge' after this week's system update.
 Please don't drop it till 'should' does = 'does'.
 the vast majority of that output comes from like 3 or 4 packages.

All of it comes from  6  packages which I recently installed/updated :
 evince gdk-pix-buf rekonq xkeyboard-config gnome-doc-utils sane-backends
The total rubbish cleaned out for these  6  was   9 MB .
The last  3  belong to major projects -- X Gnome Sane -- ,
which suggests that other pkgs they manage may suffer the same defect.

 file bugs if you want things to actually get fixed.

No, that's not the way it should be handled.
Filing bugs --  6  of them in this case -- is no guarantee of attention even,
let alone action to fix the problem.  Moreover, if it's fixable by Gentoo,
the dev involved should do it as a matter of course without needing a bug.

There is a perfectly effective script which cleans up the mess
 the only problem with it seems to be temporary lack of a maintainer,
who is not essential anyway if there's nothing which needs fixing
 should not be difficult to replace with a simple request for a volunteer.

Please leave 'localepurge' where it is.

-- 
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SUPPORT ___//___,   Philip Webb
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Re: [gentoo-dev] Dropping localepurge

2012-01-30 Thread Philip Webb
120130 Mart Raudsepp wrote:
 Do you even have LINGUAS set in /etc/make.conf or something?
 Because at least evince, gdk-pixbuf, xkeyboard-config and
 gnome-doc-utils DO honor LINGUAS.
 
 All GNOME packages that use intltool (that is pretty much everything
 except a few low-level libraries) honor LINGUAS much more than
 localepurge would ever be able clean afterwards. For example, .desktop
 files only have translation lines for languages listed in LINGUAS. Same
 for gconf and dconf schemas. Also all end-user documentation
 in /usr/share/gnome/help/appname/lang_code/
 
 Per above, we would close at least 4 of those bugs as INVALID or at
 least OBSOLETE (if some older version had it wrong).
 At least in GNOME we feel quite strong about things properly honoring
 LINGUAS per old standard GNU conventions. This means installing ALL
 translations if LINGUAS is unset, and none if LINGUAS is set to an empty
 string.
 
 Above said, I also do find a use on some systems for localepurge, to
 catch the packages that don't honor it.
 Though for embedded deployments I might as well not include the
 non-interesting language directories in the image.

Thanks for the useful  polite response.  I will look into LINGUAS.
How to set it is not mentioned in  make.conf.example  or in  man make.conf :
where is it documented ?

-- 
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Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Dropping localepurge

2012-01-30 Thread Philip Webb
120130 Mart Raudsepp wrote:
 On E, 2012-01-30 at 06:56 -0500, Philip Webb wrote:
 Thanks for the useful  polite response.  I will look into LINGUAS.
 How to set it is not mentioned in  make.conf.example  or in  man make.conf :
 where is it documented ?
  http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/guide-localization.xml#doc_chap3
 I presume you only have things set in /etc/locale.nopurge
 and wrongly expect packages to honor it.
 Specific packages do not and can not look at that file,
 as it's localepurge specific
 and upstream projects shouldn't have any knowledge of it.
 LINGUAS is the standard environment variable for this
 with gettext based systems, and intltool honors it as well.
 I remember a longer description of it in some info file,
 but right now only found
  http://www.gnu.org/software/gettext/manual/html_node/Installers.html
 Bugs are hopefully appreciated by maintainers for packages
 that don't honor that environment variable set via /etc/make.conf.

I added a line 'LINGUAS=en' to  make.conf   rebooted,
emerged the  6  pkgs I listed in a previous msg  ran 'localepurge' again.
This time, only 'rekonq'  'sane-backends' offended.

 If an upstream doesn't honor it, they are probably just not using
 the standard autoconf/automake glue for it correctly
 or use a different build system support for it wrongly
 or the build system is suboptimal on this.

I'm surprised at 'sane-backends', which is a longstanding app,
but 'rekonq' is a recent invention  may need informing re the issue.

 Some Gentoo packages also have a LINGUAS USE_EXPAND,
 so show up in emerge --verbose --ask world and similar outputs.
 This is typically used when extra downloads are necessary for the languages
 (e.g firefox or libreoffice per-language packs)
 and often don't honor the LINGUAS unset == all languages convention.
 Packages that don't need any extra downloads or long building time
 do not expose this as USE_EXPAND USE flags and just silently work it out
 in their build system, and that's the most reasonable approach for us.

Yes, I've seen it in output for 'emerge -pv' for FF  LO.

 Hope this helps,

Yes, that's exactly the kind of response users need:
LINGUAS is some way down the doc you refer to  I assumed LANG was enough.

I also realised that as 'localepurge' is a script,
I can move it to  /usr/local/bin/ , if it does fall out of the tree.

I will file bugs for the  2  offending pkgs above
 leave the hard-working devs to get on with their other affairs.

-- 
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Re: [gentoo-dev] Dropping localepurge

2012-01-28 Thread Philip Webb
/share/locale/rw/LC_MESSAGES/xkeyboard-config.mo'
removed `/usr/share/locale/sk/LC_MESSAGES/evince.mo'
removed `/usr/share/locale/sk/LC_MESSAGES/gdk-pixbuf.mo'
removed `/usr/share/locale/sk/LC_MESSAGES/gnome-doc-utils.mo'
removed `/usr/share/locale/sk/LC_MESSAGES/xkeyboard-config.mo'
removed `/usr/share/locale/sk/LC_MESSAGES/rekonq.mo'
removed `/usr/share/locale/sl/LC_MESSAGES/evince.mo'
removed `/usr/share/locale/sl/LC_MESSAGES/gdk-pixbuf.mo'
removed `/usr/share/locale/sl/LC_MESSAGES/gnome-doc-utils.mo'
removed `/usr/share/locale/sl/LC_MESSAGES/xkeyboard-config.mo'
removed `/usr/share/locale/sl/LC_MESSAGES/rekonq.mo'
removed `/usr/share/locale/sq/LC_MESSAGES/evince.mo'
removed `/usr/share/locale/sq/LC_MESSAGES/gdk-pixbuf.mo'
removed `/usr/share/locale/sq/LC_MESSAGES/gnome-doc-utils.mo'
removed `/usr/share/locale/sq/LC_MESSAGES/xkeyboard-config.mo'
removed `/usr/share/locale/sr/LC_MESSAGES/evince.mo'
removed `/usr/share/locale/sr/LC_MESSAGES/gdk-pixbuf.mo'
removed `/usr/share/locale/sr/LC_MESSAGES/gnome-doc-utils.mo'
removed `/usr/share/locale/sr/LC_MESSAGES/xkeyboard-config.mo'
removed `/usr/share/locale/sr/LC_MESSAGES/rekonq.mo'
removed `/usr/share/locale/sr@ije/LC_MESSAGES/gdk-pixbuf.mo'
removed `/usr/share/locale/sv/LC_MESSAGES/evince.mo'
removed `/usr/share/locale/sv/LC_MESSAGES/gdk-pixbuf.mo'
removed `/usr/share/locale/sv/LC_MESSAGES/gnome-doc-utils.mo'
removed `/usr/share/locale/sv/LC_MESSAGES/xkeyboard-config.mo'
removed `/usr/share/locale/sv/LC_MESSAGES/rekonq.mo'
removed `/usr/share/locale/sv/LC_MESSAGES/sane-backends.mo'
removed `/usr/share/locale/ta/LC_MESSAGES/evince.mo'
removed `/usr/share/locale/ta/LC_MESSAGES/gdk-pixbuf.mo'
removed `/usr/share/locale/ta/LC_MESSAGES/gnome-doc-utils.mo'
removed `/usr/share/locale/te/LC_MESSAGES/evince.mo'
removed `/usr/share/locale/te/LC_MESSAGES/gdk-pixbuf.mo'
removed `/usr/share/locale/te/LC_MESSAGES/gnome-doc-utils.mo'
removed `/usr/share/locale/th/LC_MESSAGES/evince.mo'
removed `/usr/share/locale/th/LC_MESSAGES/gdk-pixbuf.mo'
removed `/usr/share/locale/th/LC_MESSAGES/gnome-doc-utils.mo'
removed `/usr/share/locale/th/LC_MESSAGES/rekonq.mo'
removed `/usr/share/locale/tk/LC_MESSAGES/gdk-pixbuf.mo'
removed `/usr/share/locale/tr/LC_MESSAGES/evince.mo'
removed `/usr/share/locale/tr/LC_MESSAGES/gdk-pixbuf.mo'
removed `/usr/share/locale/tr/LC_MESSAGES/gnome-doc-utils.mo'
removed `/usr/share/locale/tr/LC_MESSAGES/xkeyboard-config.mo'
removed `/usr/share/locale/tr/LC_MESSAGES/rekonq.mo'
removed `/usr/share/locale/tt/LC_MESSAGES/gdk-pixbuf.mo'
removed `/usr/share/locale/ug/LC_MESSAGES/gdk-pixbuf.mo'
removed `/usr/share/locale/ug/LC_MESSAGES/gnome-doc-utils.mo'
removed `/usr/share/locale/ug/LC_MESSAGES/rekonq.mo'
removed `/usr/share/locale/uk/LC_MESSAGES/evince.mo'
removed `/usr/share/locale/uk/LC_MESSAGES/gdk-pixbuf.mo'
removed `/usr/share/locale/uk/LC_MESSAGES/gnome-doc-utils.mo'
removed `/usr/share/locale/uk/LC_MESSAGES/xkeyboard-config.mo'
removed `/usr/share/locale/uk/LC_MESSAGES/rekonq.mo'
removed `/usr/share/locale/uk/LC_MESSAGES/sane-backends.mo'
removed `/usr/share/locale/uz/LC_MESSAGES/gdk-pixbuf.mo'
removed `/usr/share/locale/vi/LC_MESSAGES/evince.mo'
removed `/usr/share/locale/vi/LC_MESSAGES/gdk-pixbuf.mo'
removed `/usr/share/locale/vi/LC_MESSAGES/gnome-doc-utils.mo'
removed `/usr/share/locale/vi/LC_MESSAGES/xkeyboard-config.mo'
removed `/usr/share/locale/wa/LC_MESSAGES/evince.mo'
removed `/usr/share/locale/wa/LC_MESSAGES/gdk-pixbuf.mo'
removed `/usr/share/locale/wa/LC_MESSAGES/gnome-doc-utils.mo'
removed `/usr/share/locale/xh/LC_MESSAGES/gdk-pixbuf.mo'
removed `/usr/share/locale/yi/LC_MESSAGES/gdk-pixbuf.mo'
removed `/usr/share/locale/zh_CN/LC_MESSAGES/evince.mo'
removed `/usr/share/locale/zh_CN/LC_MESSAGES/gdk-pixbuf.mo'
removed `/usr/share/locale/zh_CN/LC_MESSAGES/gnome-doc-utils.mo'
removed `/usr/share/locale/zh_CN/LC_MESSAGES/xkeyboard-config.mo'
removed `/usr/share/locale/zh_CN/LC_MESSAGES/rekonq.mo'
removed `/usr/share/locale/zh_HK/LC_MESSAGES/evince.mo'
removed `/usr/share/locale/zh_HK/LC_MESSAGES/gdk-pixbuf.mo'
removed `/usr/share/locale/zh_HK/LC_MESSAGES/gnome-doc-utils.mo'
removed `/usr/share/locale/zh_TW/LC_MESSAGES/evince.mo'
removed `/usr/share/locale/zh_TW/LC_MESSAGES/gdk-pixbuf.mo'
removed `/usr/share/locale/zh_TW/LC_MESSAGES/gnome-doc-utils.mo'
removed `/usr/share/locale/zh_TW/LC_MESSAGES/xkeyboard-config.mo'
removed `/usr/share/locale/zh_TW/LC_MESSAGES/rekonq.mo'
 * localepurge: Disk space freed in /usr/share/locale: 9656K
 * localepurge: processing locale files in /usr/local/share/locale ...
 * localepurge: processing locale files in /usr/kde/3.5/share/locale ...
 * localepurge: processing locale files in /usr/lib/locale ...
 * localepurge: processing man pages in /usr/share/man ...
 * localepurge: Disk space freed in /usr/share/man: 44K
 * localepurge: processing man pages in /usr/local/share/man ...
root:503 ~ 

-- 
,,
SUPPORT ___//___,   Philip Webb

Re: [gentoo-dev] RFC: news item for sys-apps/systemd - /usr migration

2012-01-05 Thread Philip Webb
120106 Michał Górny wrote:
 I'm going to move systemd completely to /usr soonish
 and thus I'd like to submit the following news item for review.
 I'd appreciate any comments and suggestions.
 -- NEWS ITEM FOLLOWS --
...
 For this reason, a new revisions of all systemd versions have been
   ^^ delete (plural follows)
 added to the tree and all users are advised to upgrade ASAP to make
 the transition as painless as possible ...

-- 
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Re: [gentoo-dev] RFC: splitting virtual/

2011-08-15 Thread Philip Webb
110815 Patrick Lauer wrote:
 On 08/15/11 21:55, Michał Górny wrote:
 Considering the number of different virtuals in this category,
 maybe it would be a good idea to split it a little?
 -- maybe creating some kind of '*-virtual' categories.
 For example, half of the current virtuals are prefixed with 'perl-'.
 Maybe they could be transformed into 'perl-virtual/*'?
 right now all virtuals are easily recognizable
 and nicely grouped into one category.

If you're going to take that route, which mb a small improvement,
it sb 'virtual-perl', 'virtual-java' etc.
It would help users see more clearly what sundry virtuals are for:
the present size of the category is less important than clarity.

-- 
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Re: [gentoo-dev] Thoughts about broken package handling

2011-06-26 Thread Philip Webb
110626 Stuart Longland wrote re his concept:
 Tool will be written in separate modules to handle:
 - ELF soname change breakage
 - Python module updates
 - Perl module updates
 - other checks that can cause broken packages...
 Each check is run in order,
 generating a list of packages that should be rebuilt.
 Having generated this list, it is then evaluated to sort the candidate
 packages into a suitable order for rebuilding.
 This is then passed to the package manager... three modes for rebuilds:
 - All-in-one-hit rebuild: What the tools presently do now.
 - One-by-one rebuild: For each package in the list, build each one
 individually... useful if Portage coughs up an error otherwise
 - Dump the list: allows people to handle it with their own tools

From a long-time user : +1 .

-- 
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[gentoo-dev] a virtual advantage ?

2011-06-26 Thread Philip Webb
Yesterday, I upgraded 'xorg-drivers' to the latest stable 1.10
 then found upon rebooting that X failed to recognise the keyboard.
Yes, it's happened before  I was not surprised:
I had to switch the machine off, reboot, login as root
-- experience long ago made me avoid booting directly into a GUI -- 
 recompile 'xf86-input-evdev', after which everything returned to normal.
Yes, there's a warning after the new 'xorg-drivers' has been installed,
but I wasn't sure exactly which pkg(s) needed remerging, so took the chance.

My point is that it looks -- to a naive user -- like a good opportunity
for another 'virtual', which wb satisfied by Evdev or equivalent.
This would avoid the problem when busy users miss the warning notice
(see a current users' thread).

Perhaps this would in turn need an extension of the 'virtual' concept,
to require rebuilding of the relevant pkg to satisfy the main emerge.
There is another thread today re 'revdep-rebuild' + Python + Perl,
which seems to cover a bit of the same ground.

Thanks as always to the devs for their conscientious unpaid efforts.

-- 
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Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: a virtual advantage ?

2011-06-26 Thread Philip Webb
110626 Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
 On 06/26/2011 06:54 PM, Philip Webb wrote:
 Yesterday, I upgraded 'xorg-drivers' to the latest stable 1.10
   then found upon rebooting that X failed to recognise the keyboard.
 Yes, it's happened before  I was not surprised:
 I had to switch the machine off, reboot, login as root
 -- experience long ago made me avoid booting directly into a GUI --
   recompile 'xf86-input-evdev', after which everything returned to normal.
 Yes, there's a warning after the new 'xorg-drivers' has been installed,
 but I wasn't sure exactly which pkg(s) needed remerging, so took the chance.
 it gives you an actual command that will emerge all x11-drivers/*.

Yes, but it's not precise enough :

  root:534 xorg-server qlist -I -C x11-drivers/
x11-drivers/nvidia-drivers
x11-drivers/xf86-input-evdev
x11-drivers/xf86-video-nv
x11-drivers/xf86-video-vesa

The only one I needed to remerge is the 2nd in the list.

-- 
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Re: [gentoo-dev] openrc-0.8.1 stable candidate

2011-04-18 Thread Philip Webb
110418 Marijn wrote:
 On 04/16/11 18:05, William Hubbs wrote:
 - news item release on 5/1
 - stabilization on 5/8.
 Please, to avoid confusion, use month names instead of numbers
 or include the year so people don't have to deduce the ordering.

Seconded.  In fact,
has Gentoo not adopted the international standard date format ?
It is  -mm-dd   sb used for all docs  discussions.  So here it wb

  news item release 2011-05-01
  stabilization 2011-05-08

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Re: [gentoo-dev] 'State of Gentoo' BoF session, Linux Symposium 2010.

2010-07-09 Thread Philip Webb
100709 Robin H. Johnson wrote:
 I'm running a BoF session during Linux Symposium 2010 in Ottawa next week,
 entitled 'State of Gentoo'.
 http://www.linuxsymposium.org/2010/view_abstract.php?content_key=75
 Questions about progress on specific topics are warmly welcomed.

Good to know something useful is happening in our capital this year (grin).

There is still a serious misperception out there among non-users
that Gentoo is about performance.  This needs to be corrected:
I believe we all use it for the choice  control it offers.

Perhaps there's also a disadvantage in that Gentoo doesn't receive
the commercial publicity behind Ubuntu, Fedora  Suse,
nor does it have the ancient history of Slackware  Debian.

I continue to be as happy a user as I have always been since 2003 .

HTH

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Re: [gentoo-dev] KDE3 deprecation news item. [ the GLEP 42 based variant ]

2009-10-30 Thread Philip Webb
091030 Tomáš Chvátal wrote re:
 Title: KDE3 will be masked and removed from portage

Can someone explain -- or point to the relevant docs which explain --
how to use the KDE 3 overlay ?  Perhaps this sb in the news announcement.

I've successfully installed most of KDE 4.3.1 ,
but without the desktop stuff, for which I have adopted Fluxbox.
I still have remnants of KDE 3.5.10 (details from my personal pkg list):

  W 090501 kde-base/kdeartwork-kworldclock-3.5.10 
090606 kde-base/kdelibs-3.5.10-r6 [ 16 min ]
  W 080924 kde-base/kmahjongg-3.5.10
  W 080924 kde-base/ksokoban-3.5.10
  W 090501 kde-base/kworldclock-3.5.10
080924 kde-base/libkdegames-3.5.10 [for kmahjongg etc]

Kmahjongg 4 lacks the removed-tiles display (it's promised);
Ksokoban hasn't been ported to KDE 4 (someone's working on it);
Kworldclock shows local times around the globe,
which Marble should show, but doesn't (yet?).
Everything still works  nothing (3  4) interferes with anything else.

Hopefully, it won't be difficult for users to keep KDE 3 items
as long as they need them  don't cause any other problems.

-- 
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Re: [gentoo-dev] Anyone intrested in maintaining Midnight Commander?

2009-10-03 Thread Philip Webb
091003 Alex Alexander wrote:
 On Fri, Oct 2, 2009 at 21:57, Samuli Suominen ssuomi...@gentoo.org wrote:
 The latest version is now patch free, 4.7.0_pre3,
 and there's only 1 bug open. So I'm basically done with it.
 If any of you actually use it, feel free to substitute me
 from the metadata.xml, I just picked it up because nobody else did.
 /me uses it
 I'll take it off your hands, thanks for taking care of it for so long.

I don't use MC currently, but it has recently been taken up seriously
by a new team of MC devs, 4.7.0 being their 1st basic update.
Hopefully, they are aiming for a really new 5.0.0 ,
which may get a lot of people using it again,
so it deserves to have a dedicated maintainer among Gentoo devs.

Thanks as always to the devs for their volunteer work.

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Re: [gentoo-dev] Last rites: opengl-manpages, xorg-docs, xorg-sgml-doctools

2009-09-22 Thread Philip Webb
090922 Rémi Cardona wrote:
 # Rémi Cardona r...@gentoo.org (19 Sep 2009)
 # Outdated and useless X doc packages
 # Masked for removal in 30 days
 app-doc/opengl-manpages
 app-doc/xorg-sgml-doctools
 app-doc/xorg-docs
 Before anyone asks, opengl-manpages is a snapshot for Dec '00.
 The online documentation at opengl.org is much much more up-to-date.

On my generally upto-date system :

  root:503 ~ equery d xorg-docs
  [ Searching for packages depending on xorg-docs... ]
  x11-base/xorg-x11-7.2 (=app-doc/xorg-docs-1.3)

Is it safe for users simply to remove this pkg ?

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Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Devaway for me, for a whole year period(military service)

2009-08-11 Thread Philip Webb
090811 Markos Chandras wrote:
 Now, it is my time to say goodbye ( but not forever ) .
 I am *forced* to join the Greek army from 16/8/2009 until May 2010.
 When I come back, I expect a more shiny Gentoo
 So long people. It was a pleasure to work with you so far. See you in May :)

Lots of sympathy: UK abolished National Service in time for me to escape it;
France ended it, has Germany yet ?  Canada has never had such a thing:
Canadians are very tough fighters when they're needed, but as volunteers.

So think of one of the greatest soldiers  heroes of all time, Leonidas,
 let's hope you don't have to emulate what he did ... (grin)

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Re: [gentoo-dev] New app-eselect category?

2009-05-26 Thread Philip Webb
090526 Ulrich Mueller wrote:
 We could move the 27 eselect-* packages to a new app-eselect category;
 eselect itself would stay in app-admin.
 I hate package moves, so is it really *really* necessary?
 Of course it is only a matter of organisation (as most package moves are).
 Since there's also no agreement on the name of the category,
 let's postpone it.  Maybe the situation will be clearer
 after the release of the Universal Select Tool.

As a mere user who tries to keep track of his pkgs,
may I register a '+1' for keeping categories reasonably small
 for retaining the 'major-minor' syntax of the dir names ?
So the new category should help us users slightly
 'app-select' looks like the most appropriate name for the new dir.

-- 
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Re: [gentoo-dev] RFC: Gentoo Support Everywhere

2009-05-19 Thread Philip Webb
090519 Jesús Guerrero wrote:
 This is a request for comments on a new project Gentoo Support Everywhere.
   http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/gse/
 this forum thread might be more clarifying:
   http://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-762914.html
 The initial aim is to provide some support to these lost souls
 that wander around the LQ forums and to create a Gentoo subforum at LQ

What is LQ ?

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Re: [gentoo-dev] RFC: Gentoo Support Everywhere

2009-05-19 Thread Philip Webb
090519 Justin Lecher wrote:
 Philip Webb schrieb:
 090519 Jesús Guerrero wrote:
 The initial aim is to provide some support to these lost souls
 that wander around the LQ forums and to create a Gentoo subforum at LQ
  What is LQ ?
 LinuxQuestions

What is LinuxQuestions ? -- really, if you want help  support,
you have to explain what you're talking about.

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Re: [gentoo-dev] GLI Officially Deprecated

2009-01-15 Thread Philip Webb
090114 Donnie Berkholz wrote:
 On 15:23 Wed 14 Jan 2009, Ben de Groot wrote:
 Also, will we have an announcement on the www.gentoo.org frontpage?
 This seems to me an important enough issue to inform our users about.
 Yeah, I'll get something up. I've got a few pending now.

I've been using Gentoo since 2003  have installed it in  2  machines.
I've also felt it necessary more than once to comment in LWN
in response to scare stories then circulating about the death of Gentoo
 how it was no longer putting out new versions reliably or on time.
The fact that 'version' doesn't mean the same for Gentoo as other distros
is not clear to the many people who haven't used Gentoo.

I just had a look at the Gentoo home page,
as if I were a newcomer wanting to find out how to get started.
The 'about' page says nothing about the basic installation process,
so I went to 'installation docs', where the 1st 'installation resource'
is the 'Gentoo Handbook', which led me to get 'Gentoo AMD64 Handbook',
then 'about the Gentoo Linux installation'.
This emphasises that I can install Gentoo in many ways,
the 1st of which listed is 'from one of our installation CDs'.

May I suggest that the 'about' page needs an additional 3rd section
entitled 'How do I go about installing Gentoo ?'.
I'm sure DB is capable of writing whatever is needed,
but it could be something like the following:

  Unlike most distributions, which rely on binary packages
  and create a new version of the whole system at regular intervals,
  Gentoo is installed once and thereafter kept upto-date by the user
  by means of Portage (as above).  Installing Gentoo is not difficult,
  but it does require a bit more time  attention from the user,
  which we at Gentoo consider to be a useful exercise for her or him
  to get to know better how a Linux system really works under the hood.
  All you typically need is a live CD and a copy of the Gentoo Handbook,
  which you can find by following the link to 'installation docs' above.

It might be an idea also to amend the line in the Handbook above,
so that 'one of our installation CDs' is not quite so prominent.

HTH

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Re: [gentoo-dev] reorganization of /var/lib gentoo-related files

2008-12-30 Thread Philip Webb
081231 Fabio Rossi wrote:
 I'm proposing to reorganize the files related to Gentoo inside /var/lib.
 Currently we have this situation (at least on my system):
   /var/lib/eselect  --  here
   /var/lib/gentoo/enews
   /var/lib/herdstat/
   /var/lib/module-rebuild  --  here
   /var/lib/portage  --  here
 
 The main dir should be something like  /var/lib/gentoo ,
 so I'd see all gentoo-related files as
 
   /var/lib/gentoo/eselect
   /var/lib/gentoo/enews
   /var/lib/gentoo/herdstat/
   /var/lib/gentoo/module-rebuild
   /var/lib/gentoo/portage
 
 What do you think about?

It looks neater  simpler to understand in the long run,
provided it doesn't break anyone's system in the short run.
BTW I have only the  3  entries I have marked above.

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Re: [gentoo-dev] Name change s/drac/ssuominen/ for people wondering.

2008-11-29 Thread Philip Webb
081129 Samuli Suominen wrote:
 This is for the people wondering who I am.
 I used to go around with nick drac, but I was MIA for some months
 because I was sick which made me so depressed,
 I left my job and everything went downhill from there.
 I'm now in the road of recovering
 and have started with Gentoo, which I still love, again.

Good to hear you're recovering.  'Suomi' = 'Funland', doesn't it (grin) ?
(I'm a very long-time fan of Sibelius)

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Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Projects without a homepage, and valid contents of HOMEPAGE (per bug 239268)

2008-10-05 Thread Philip Webb
081005 Ryan Hill wrote:
 5 Oct 2008 Robin H. Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 For projects where the upstream has vanished off the face of the planet
 but ... the code works fine still, there's problems
 with either the requirements of HOMEPAGE or the repoman check.
 Either we need special cases to declare it no longer has a homepage
 or we need to allow the empty HOMEPAGE.
 I'd rather see unknown or something that implies I looked, no luck
 rather than I forgot to fill this in.

As a user who sometimes checks the upstream site for further info,
I strongly support eg 'Unknown' or 'No support site can be found'.
Leaving it blank is ambiguous  might even encourage a buzy dev
not to bother trying to find a changed upstream site.

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Re: [gentoo-dev] FHS compliant KDE install and multi-version support

2008-09-07 Thread Philip Webb
080907 Jorge Manuel B. S. Vicetto wrote:
 ignoring FHS ... are not valid solutions to this problem.

Why ?  Who is demanding FHS compliance  for what reasons ?
Gentoo is not like other distros  sometimes needs to find its own way.
Given the well-known problems with KDE 4.0  (still) 4.1 ,
I'ld like to be able to have the option of multiple versions available.

I really do appreciate the hard volunteer work the KDE team donates
 have nothing but thanks to them all, but shouldn't your priority be
to get KDE 4.1 into 'testing', so that users can actually try it out ?
There's also 3.5.10 , which has been released, but isn't in Gentoo yet.

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Re: [gentoo-dev] FHS compliant KDE install and multi-version support

2008-09-07 Thread Philip Webb
080907 Marcus D. Hanwell wrote:
 The slotting of KDE 3.* and KDE 4.* was never a question
 but whether we really need to keep slotting of minor KDE versions
 in the new 4.* line, i.e. KDE 4.1 and 4.2 slotted on the same system.

Yes, I understood that (smile).

 It is no real issue to be able to run a slotted KDE 4.2 install
 alongside an FHS install of KDE 4.* via an overlay.

In that case, much of my unease disappears:
users should be willing to learn how to use overlays.

 This helps to make the normal KDE install much simpler to maintain
 with less gradual build up of cruft over the years,
 ie multiple older slots the user is no longer using.
 It also brings us into line with the FHS compliant Qt 4 ebuilds

Yes, if there is a genuine improvement in maintainability for the devs,
that's a real reason for making the change.

In another msg, you said nothing will change till 4.2 ( 0901xx )
 by then hopefully KDE 4 will have settled down to normal usability.

 The purpose of these posts was to solicit further feedback
 before things are pushed to the main tree.

Well, you have mine (grin).

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Re: [gentoo-dev] IBM article of interest ?

2008-07-17 Thread Philip Webb
080716 Josh Saddler wrote:
 Philip Webb wrote:
 I'm not sure whether anyone among Gentoo officials cares about this,
 but IBM has an article
   http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/linux/library/l-awk1.html
 whose byline is very misleading  may infringe on Gentoo's IP.
 I have submitted a comment to IBM via their form.
 Uh, this article really *was* written by drobbins some time ago.
 It's okay.  It's all perfectly legal; in fact, check out 
 http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/articles/

Yes, it looks as if someone at IBM simply copied it from there,
where it is indeed marked updated.

 I and some other folks GuideXMLified the original developerWorks articles 
 and republished them on gentoo.org with permission, eg the URL you posted: 
 http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/articles/l-awk1.xml

Yes, that's it.

 No need for the alarm, folks. Simmahdownah.

There remains an error in the IBM page above  the Gentoo doc version,
ie the URL given for 'Gentoo Technologies Inc' is 'www.gentoo.org'.
Whether the author still maintains GTI in New Mexico isn't clear
(there's another 'GTI' in Blacksburg VA , which makes databases etc),
but even if so, its Internet site is not the same as Gentoo Foundation's:
this needs to be corrected by the maintainer of Gentoo docs  by IBM.

One would also assume that the author has a more direct e-address
than the forwarding address at Gentoo still given in the article
 the personal details seem to be 8 years old (eg new baby):
those also would better be updated or deleted.

In contrast with traditional printed media -- press or advertising --
the Internet is often less precise  therefore can be seriously misleading:
there is a lot of out-of-date information lying around
 no-one to take responsibility for it.

So no alarm, but cause for a couple of updates when time permits.

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Re: [gentoo-dev] IBM article of interest ?

2008-07-17 Thread Philip Webb
080717 Josh Saddler wrote:
 Philip Webb wrote:
 There remains an error in the IBM page above  the Gentoo doc version,
 ie the URL given for 'Gentoo Technologies Inc' is 'www.gentoo.org'.
 Whether the author still maintains GTI in New Mexico isn't clear
 (there's another 'GTI' in Blacksburg VA , which makes databases etc),
 but even if so, its Internet site is not the same as Gentoo Foundation's:
 this needs to be corrected by the maintainer of Gentoo docs  by IBM.
 One would also assume that the author has a more direct e-address
 than the forwarding address at Gentoo still given in the article
  the personal details seem to be 8 years old (eg new baby):
 those also would better be updated or deleted.
 In contrast with traditional printed media -- press or advertising --
 the Internet is often less precise  therefore can be seriously 
 misleading: there is a lot of out-of-date information lying around
  no-one to take responsibility for it.
 these articles are snapshots of how things used to be.
 We don't need to wipe out everything that's old, do we?
 Why not leave the information there so people can get some history?

Neither an e-mail address nor an Internet URL is some history:
they are a means of contacting a person  a link to a site
 as such they should be upto-date or deleted.

 What if people don't want more recent information shared
 and don't want a new email for all to see?

In that case, as I said in my previous message, they should be deleted.

 Seriously, nothing needs to be done on the IBM side, nor on ours.
 It's not an issue.  please just let it go.

Well, I have much more important things to do today (smile),
but you are missing the point.  Any newspaper or magazine editor knows
that when they reprint an article, some details may need updating
or at least a clear disclaimer needs adding to warn readers
that This article was first published in 2000  is reprinted as was.
In the current case neither IBM nor Gentoo docs has done either.

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Re: [gentoo-dev] IBM article of interest ?

2008-07-17 Thread Philip Webb
080717 Jan Kundrát wrote:
 01 Dec 2000 Updated 03 Jul 2008 [2]
 [2] http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/linux/library/l-awk1.html

The '03 Jul 2008' has been added since I sent my comment to them yesterday !
However, the incorrect URL for Gentoo Technologies -- www.gentoo.org --
is still there, probably because I didn't mention it in my comment,
so I'll try sending them another.

 *Nothing* needs changing.  Better stick to the more important things.

Yes, where professional standards  peer review mean something (wry smile).

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Re: [gentoo-dev] IBM article of interest ?

2008-07-17 Thread Philip Webb
080717 Jeremy Olexa wrote:
 Philip Webb wrote:
 [2] http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/linux/library/l-awk1.html
 '03 Jul 2008' has been added since I sent my comment to them yesterday !
 However, the incorrect URL for Gentoo Technologies -- www.gentoo.org --
 is still there, probably because I didn't mention it in my comment,
 so I'll try sending them another.
 I don't know all the details or the 'proper' way to handle
 what you are doing. But I wanted to say thanks for spending time on this.

Thanks (big smile) !  It's good to have a bit of encouragement.

There's really no more to say here: my initial message was about IBM
 I reacted as might any casual reader of their page,
wondering why they were including 8-year-old information re its author.
I did not remember that it was also included in Gentoo docs, but now do.

It's clear to me by now that Gentoo does the correct  sensible thing:
reproduce the original as it was in 2000 with a prominent disclaimer.
It's IBM which is not doing that  needs prodding: I've sent another comment.

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[gentoo-dev] IBM article of interest ?

2008-07-16 Thread Philip Webb
I'm not sure whether anyone among Gentoo officials cares about this,
but IBM has an article

  http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/linux/library/l-awk1.html

whose byline is very misleading  may infringe on Gentoo's IP.
I have submitted a comment to IBM via their form at the bottom of the page.

HTH

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Re: [gentoo-dev] packages up for grabs

2008-05-31 Thread Philip Webb
080531 Mike Frysinger wrote:
 many of these are low maintence ...
 i'd forgotten i was even listed under them 
 as i havent seen a bug report in a long time.
 some i added (well probably too many) on a lark,
 so if they do end up being crappy and no one cares,
 i guess that's why we have a tree cleaners group.
...
 net-misc/ntp

This is rather basic, isn't it ?  It keeps your clock accurate.
Is there any alternative ?

 media-gfx/feh

This is an excellent app  seems usually bug-free.
I hope someone keeps an eye on it.

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Re: [gentoo-dev] debianutils: system worthy ?

2008-01-30 Thread Philip Webb
080128 Mike Frysinger wrote:
 now that the mktemp binary has been moved out of debianutils
 and integrated straight into coreutils,
 perhaps it's time to ask how important this package is to everyone.
 current debianutils is part of system and provides:
  - installkernel
  - run-parts
  - tempfile
  - savelog
  - mkboot
 do people consider these things critical ?
 i dont know the last time i personally needed/wanted any of these ...

'equery d debianutils' gives me 

  app-admin/sysklogd-1.4.2_pre20061230 (sys-apps/debianutils)
  app-portage/gentoolkit-0.2.3-r1 (userland_GNU? sys-apps/debianutils)
  sys-apps/mktemp-1.5 (=sys-apps/debianutils-2.16.2)

The 2nd cb ignored, but the others seem important.
I have Mktemp-1.5 installed, so what do you mean by your lines 1-2 ?
Sysklogd seems to be an important pkg too.
What am I missing (smile) ?

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Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Concerns about WIPE_TMP change [offtopic]

2008-01-21 Thread Philip Webb
080121 Caleb Cushing wrote:
 last time I checked open office only required ~2GB to compile

OO 2.3.1 needed  3,25 GB  here, which was less than in the past IIRC.
You're correct that that is far more than any other pkg needs.

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Re: [gentoo-dev] OT: Request to participate in a survey for a doctoral thesis about Project Communities

2007-12-05 Thread Philip Webb
071205 Marius Mauch wrote:
 On Wed, 5 Dec 2007 Bj?rn Benz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 http://dissertation.bjoern-benz.de/output/project_community/
 b) the page doesn't load for me, seems to be a redirection loop
 between index.php, form.php  login.php (maybe because I disabled cookies)

Lynx  Dillo show a blank page, but Firefox opens it ok with cookies:
probably it uses Javascript, which the former can't handle.
I had a look at the 1st page of questions, but didn't go further.

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Re: [gentoo-dev-announce] Re: [gentoo-dev] Packages of for grabs

2007-09-05 Thread Philip Webb
070905 Christian Heim wrote:
 On Wednesday 29 August 2007 21:41:07 Christian Heim wrote:
 Here's the first bunch of packages sadly up for grabs
 maintainer-needed: ...
  - x11-wm/ion2 (twp) ...

Wasn't that going to be removed due to a dispute re its licence ?
Perhaps that got resolved without my noticing (smile).

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Re: [gentoo-dev] Packages of for grabs

2007-09-05 Thread Philip Webb
070905 Matti Bickel wrote:
 On Wednesday 29 August 2007 21:41:07 Christian Heim wrote:
 maintainer-needed: - x11-wm/ion2 (twp)
 Will have last-rites this week. 
 With the advent of ion3 stable in my overlay there's no use to keep it.

Perhaps you should consult Mr Mola, who seems to have a different view:

  On 9/5/07, Philip Webb [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
   070905 Christian Heim wrote:
   Here's the first bunch of packages sadly up for grabs
   maintainer-needed: ...
- x11-wm/ion2 (twp) ...
   Wasn't that going to be removed due to a dispute re its licence ?
   Perhaps that got resolved without my noticing (smile).
  There's no problem with ion2. That's with ion3.

  Santiago M. Mola = [EMAIL PROTECTED]

I mean to be helpful (smile).

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Re: [gentoo-dev] Getting -project started

2007-07-17 Thread Philip Webb
070717 Robin H. Johnson wrote:
 On Tue, Jul 17, 2007 at 10:04:55AM +0300, Petteri R??ty wrote:
 I have seen no real opposition for the creation of the -project list
 so how about we just get that mailing list going right now
 and let the rest of it fall into place later.
 My guess is that if we would have had -project for ages,
 the need for moderating -dev would have never come about.
 The list is created now, along with other pending list requests:
   gentoo-project
   gentoo-lisp
   gentoo-vdr
   gentoo-dev-announce

To this user since 2003, who plans to install Gentoo in the new machine
which I am presently designing, this sounds like a very welcome development.
I shall continue to subscribe to -dev , but not to -project.
Should I also subscribe to -dev-announce
or will its msgs be duplicated on -dev ?

Hopefully, all the devs can now get back to making Gentoo even better,
for which volunteer work I continue always to be grateful.

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Re: [gentoo-dev] Feedback req: Confirm/thank on bug fix or is that unwanted bug spam?

2007-07-06 Thread Philip Webb
070707 Duncan wrote:
 When I open or CC on a bug that then gets fixed,
 I often feel like adding a thanks to the bug.
 However, while it may be polite in other circumstances,
 in this case it could be viewed as bug spam, so I've hesitated.  
 I'm wondering, what's the general opinion?

I try to remember to thank devs whenever they've done something for me,
incl when they fix a bug I've contributed to.
Gentoo development seems to be a very hot kitchen,
from which brave men occasionally flee screaming
(tho' even more replace them), so any thanks from us users sb welcome.

And a big general thankyou to the devs again  a (big smile).

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Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Hiatus (sort of)

2007-06-25 Thread Philip Webb
070625 Paul de Vrieze wrote:
 Now from Hobart, Tasmania (Australia)

Don't let the wolves  devils get you (grin).

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Re: [gentoo-dev] Keeping closed source pkgs (Was: Re: QA issue: No stable skype in Tree)

2007-06-14 Thread Philip Webb
070614 Steve Long wrote:
 why is ion3 gone again?
 That was good software, with total source availability.

Licensing.  Look in the archive for the gruesome details.

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Re: [gentoo-dev] [RFC]: gentoo-politics ML

2007-06-07 Thread Philip Webb
070607 Ilya A. Volynets-Evenbakh wrote:
 people with ability to say move this to gentoo-politics or else..
 for non-technical threads, as well as stop failing to use logic
 in your technical discussion or else... with power
 to temporarily ban people for non-compliance could be a useful thing.

I've also previously thought a 'gentoo-pol' list wb an improvement,
leaving 'gentoo-dev' for genuine development discussions  announcements.
The former should have fairly free speech, but some users/devs might choose
not to subscribe, if the noise tended to outweigh the messages.
Its principal attraction wb to relieve '-dev', as you describe.

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Re: [gentoo-dev] [RFC]: gentoo-politics ML

2007-06-07 Thread Philip Webb
070607 Kumba wrote:
 what should we call it?  Vote on this!

If users have votes ...

 gentoo-politics

... that gets mine: let's keep it quite clear what it is.

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Re: [gentoo-dev] Last rites: app-misc/gfontview

2007-04-07 Thread Philip Webb
070407 Stefan Schweizer wrote:
 # masked for removal: no release since 2001, build broken, bug 154671
 app-misc/gfontview

I have added a comment to the bug.
If you want to remove this package, please provide a better explanation.

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Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Last rites: app-misc/gfontview

2007-04-07 Thread Philip Webb
070407 Stefan Schweizer wrote:
 Philip Webb wrote:
 070407 Stefan Schweizer wrote:
 # masked for removal: no release since 2001, build broken, bug 154671
 app-misc/gfontview
 If you want to remove this package, please provide a better explanation.
 right you are. The bug is invalid: he unmerged some libraries
 he used earlier in depends and did not rebuild those depends.
 Have unmasked it again for you :)

Thanks: I've added a comment  thankyou to the bug.

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Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Distrowatch

2007-03-19 Thread Philip Webb
070319 Michael Krelin wrote:
 someone wrote :
 Seriously.
 Everybody go to distrowatch and click on the little Gentoo on the right
 I mistook seriously as relating to the rest of your letter

Your name suggests you're not a native speaker.
It's a common trick of stand-up comedians
to introduce their next joke with But seriously, folks ...  (smile).

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Re: [gentoo-dev] KDE needs your help

2007-03-15 Thread Philip Webb
070315 Caleb Tennis wrote:
 The KDE team is still grossly understaffed.
 Bugs are piling up, patches are waiting and package versions need bumped.
 I simply don't have the time to keep up with it anymore.
 I've been doing this for over 4 years now
 and my interests have shifted to other things.

Certainly, a big thanks for your volunteer work.

 If you are a user who wants to help, becoming active in the forums

I find the forums rather juvenile with a high noise/signal ratio.

 and with open bugs reports is a good way to get yourself noticed.

Could you give a bit more detail of the kind of help
a user might offer with bug reports (apart from making them: smile) ?

 I would hate to see Gentoo dropping KDE all together
 because nobody has the time to maintain it.

KDE is very well-maintained upstream
 I've been using 3.5.6 since 070217 without any problems,
so perhaps there needs to be a clearer sense of priorities
for handling whatever bugs etc people are reporting.

Dropping KDE would be catastrophic for Gentoo:
I would probably go elsewhere, tho' very reluctantly.
I could install it in  /usr/local ,
but I doubt if that would be adequate for long.

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Re: [gentoo-dev] Introducing the Proctors - Draft Code of Conduct for Gentoo

2007-03-13 Thread Philip Webb
070314 Marius Mauch wrote:
 Why does this have to be rushed so quickly?
 Just to fight the bad PR caused by the distrowatch article?

As a user for 3.5 years  an observer who has read this thread,
but started deleting the original abusive thread as soon as it got going,
I'ld say Council has handled the matter correctly
 that there's no need for further action on this occasion.

The incident involved two men, one of whom was not a dev at all,
the other very recently returned as a dev after a long absence
 apparently had no notion of the major changes which have happened meanwhile
(I am aware of his original role in Gentoo  of his abortive job at Microsoft).
Except for basically telling both of them to stop their fight,
no-one among the regular hard-working Gentoo devs was involved in it.
The prodigal has left again, presumably for good,
 everyone else can carry on as they were before his re-appearance.

The matter was correctly summed up in 2 lines in last week's GWN
 5 words in LWN (I don't subscribe, so haven't read the full report).

As for Distrowatch, I was shocked at its ignorance  ranting hostility:
whoever wrote it has a personal axe of some sort to grind
 was setting out to try to make a lot more of the incident that it deserved
(he started by saying CM is a Gentoo dev, which he is not).
No-one should be influenced by it, except as a black mark against Distrowatch.

Council does need to be firm in dealing with the occasional disruptive person,
but in the two recent cases it has been firm enough without being brutal.
Its members deserve thanks  support.

It's time everyone returned to what they were doing a month ago.

BTW proctors are the 2 ancient officials at Oxford U whose responsibility
is to keep order among the student population: they are Senior  Junior
and are elected (OU is a democracy, like Gentoo) from among the faculty.
They were usually to be seen only on Guy Fawkes night when I was there 1960-71
(any Gentooer with more recent knowledge can update this).

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Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: How others handle bad behaviour on mailinglists

2007-03-09 Thread Philip Webb
070309 Stephen Bennett wrote:
 On Fri, 9 Mar 2007 10:41:57 -0500 Philip Webb [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Always be parliamentary;
 never be personal; have a point to make; know when to stop.
 'Parliamentary' means 'follow the rules for MPs in Ottawa or Westminster'.
 If you've seen what goes on in the House of Commons on occasion,
 you'd know that those two are contradictory.

That's the popular picture, but there are definite lines you can't cross
(OTOH some parliaments, eg in Australia  Israel, are notoriously abusive).
Eg if one member calls another a liar  refuses to withdraw,
s/he is promptly marched out of the chamber by a couple of sergeants-at-arms.

Anyway, my own rule above is to follow the rules of those parliaments,
which are set out at great length in written handbooks,
not to imitate the actual behaviour of the members thereof (grin).

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Re: [gentoo-dev] Last rites: Various packages, see inside

2007-03-08 Thread Philip Webb
070308 Ra?l Porcel wrote:
 www-servers/aolserver
 www-misc/nscache
 www-misc/nsopenssl
 www-misc/nssha1
 www-misc/nsxml
 app-emulation/tiger
 sys-apps/evkeyd
 media-libs/libuta
 net-misc/cipe
 app-text/biblestudy

This applies to anyone else (smile) who prepares these lists,
eg those which appear in GWN: please list things alphabetically !  ie

 app-emulation/tiger
 app-text/biblestudy
...
 www-servers/aolserver

Thanks as always to the devs for their volunteer efforts.

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Re: [gentoo-dev] Automated Package Removal and Addition Tracker, for the week ending 2006-12-17 23:59 UTC

2006-12-18 Thread Philip Webb
061218 Robin H. Johnson wrote:
 On Mon, Dec 18, 2006 at 09:33:59AM -0600, Yuri Vasilevski wrote:
 It should also include the Homepage(s) and Description of the packages
 so readers could easily check what that additions are all about.
 The homepage and description are inside ebuilds
 Sure it's doable, but it's a lot more work.

All anyone needs to do is 'eix pkg-spec via clipboard'.
I just checked the new 'app-editors/tea' that way.

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