Re: [gentoo-dev] Default useflag cleanups: -apm -foomaticdb -fortran -imlib -motif -oss -xmms
On Mon, Jun 05, 2006 at 08:58:46PM +0100, Luis Medinas wrote: Xmms will be removed soon... Lot's of users still use xmms mostly because it has many plugins that others don't. Xmms is still stable but the upstream is dead so it won't take our patchset. In the end of this year i would like to remove xmms and all plugins but before i need to prepare users for this changes and clean some maintainer-wanted bugs for plugins. Provide migration options for the plugins - some of the code is out there, it's not in the tree yet, three that I actively use are xosd (the XMMS plugin is with the xosd package), xmms-realrandom and xmms-morestate. There are SUSE rpms for audacious-xosd, but I haven't found the SRPM or other source anywhere. In the past, the base xmms plugins were all split to be seperate packages, could something similar happen with audacious? It is possible to reduce some of the memory overhead? Comparing a clean start of xmms to a clean start of audacious with my playlist takes twice as much virt space, and 50% more resident memory - long term the numbers look even worse for audacious. -- Robin Hugh Johnson E-Mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED] GnuPG FP : 11AC BA4F 4778 E3F6 E4ED F38E B27B 944E 3488 4E85 pgpp58HRKkcGu.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] Default useflag cleanups: -apm -foomaticdb -fortran -imlib -motif -oss -xmms
On Monday 05 June 2006 15:58, Luis Medinas wrote: On Mon, 2006-06-05 at 21:22 +0200, Wernfried Haas wrote: On Mon, Jun 05, 2006 at 07:03:57PM +0200, Stefan Schweizer wrote: today I would like to propose a few default keywords for removal. They are outdated and no longer needed on current systems: What do you want to remove, the use flags themselves or just turn them off in the profiles? -xmms - xmms depends on gtk-1 and has been superseeded by audacious/bmpx xmms is still in the tree? People (ok, at least me ;-) ) still use it? I don't mind if it has to go and there are alternatives, but why would you just want to remove its use flag and not the package itself? If it needs to go, either dump all of it or nothing. Xmms will be removed soon... Lot's of users still use xmms mostly because it has many plugins that others don't. Xmms is still stable but the upstream is dead so it won't take our patchset. In the end of this year i would like to remove xmms and all plugins but before i need to prepare users for this changes and clean some maintainer-wanted bugs for plugins. i think removing xmms is inappropriate at this time or in the near future -mike pgpnzk17tQbeq.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] Default useflag cleanups: -apm -foomaticdb -fortran -imlib -motif -oss -xmms
On Thu, 2006-06-08 at 01:30 -0700, Robin H. Johnson wrote: On Mon, Jun 05, 2006 at 08:58:46PM +0100, Luis Medinas wrote: Xmms will be removed soon... Lot's of users still use xmms mostly because it has many plugins that others don't. Xmms is still stable but the upstream is dead so it won't take our patchset. In the end of this year i would like to remove xmms and all plugins but before i need to prepare users for this changes and clean some maintainer-wanted bugs for plugins. Provide migration options for the plugins - some of the code is out there, it's not in the tree yet, three that I actively use are xosd (the XMMS plugin is with the xosd package), xmms-realrandom and xmms-morestate. There are SUSE rpms for audacious-xosd, but I haven't found the SRPM or other source anywhere. Yes we will provide migrations to the plugins. Audacious is currently the only player on the tree that supports xmms plugins. Maybe it's time to develop some plugins or start packaging. In the past, the base xmms plugins were all split to be seperate packages, could something similar happen with audacious? It is possible to reduce some of the memory overhead? Comparing a clean start of xmms to a clean start of audacious with my playlist takes twice as much virt space, and 50% more resident memory - long term the numbers look even worse for audacious. Ask Audacious upstream but since it's build with gtk+-2 you can find it a little bit slower. -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] Default useflag cleanups: -apm -foomaticdb -fortran -imlib -motif -oss -xmms
On Tuesday 06 June 2006 02:13, Harald van Dijk wrote: On Tue, Jun 06, 2006 at 01:48:37AM -0400, Mike Frysinger wrote: you dont use alsa-driver with 2.6 kernels and the 2006.1 profiles are 2.6 based You can use alsa-driver with 2.6 kernels. ok, but imho that's enough of a use case to warrant oss by default -mike pgpOif22GaR0E.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] Default useflag cleanups: -apm -foomaticdb -fortran -imlib -motif -oss -xmms
On Tue, Jun 06, 2006 at 01:48:37AM -0400, Mike Frysinger wrote: On Tuesday 06 June 2006 01:31, Harald van Dijk wrote: On Tue, Jun 06, 2006 at 12:07:42AM -0400, Mike Frysinger wrote: On Monday 05 June 2006 21:23, Chris Gianelloni wrote: On Mon, 2006-06-05 at 18:03 +0200, Stefan Schweizer wrote: -oss - oss is a legacy audio interface that has been superseeded by alsa in most current installs, a default use flag is no longer needed There are *many* applications in the tree that do not use ALSA, but work only via the OSS emulation. Removing this is a bad idea and it would definitely be blocked by the games team. Probably half of the packages that I maintain require OSS capabilities. do we really need the USE flag though ? i was under the impression that you need to enable the OSS compat layer in the kernel and that's enough ... and the USE flag doesnt affect kernel build options ... It depends on whether you use the kernel drivers or the alsa-driver package, I think. you dont use alsa-driver with 2.6 kernels and the 2006.1 profiles are 2.6 based You can use alsa-driver with 2.6 kernels. -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] Default useflag cleanups: -apm -foomaticdb -fortran -imlib -motif -oss -xmms
On Monday 05 June 2006 23:13, Harald van Dijk wrote: On Tue, Jun 06, 2006 at 01:48:37AM -0400, Mike Frysinger wrote: On Tuesday 06 June 2006 01:31, Harald van Dijk wrote: On Tue, Jun 06, 2006 at 12:07:42AM -0400, Mike Frysinger wrote: On Monday 05 June 2006 21:23, Chris Gianelloni wrote: On Mon, 2006-06-05 at 18:03 +0200, Stefan Schweizer wrote: -oss - oss is a legacy audio interface that has been superseeded by alsa in most current installs, a default use flag is no longer needed There are *many* applications in the tree that do not use ALSA, but work only via the OSS emulation. Removing this is a bad idea and it would definitely be blocked by the games team. Probably half of the packages that I maintain require OSS capabilities. do we really need the USE flag though ? i was under the impression that you need to enable the OSS compat layer in the kernel and that's enough ... and the USE flag doesnt affect kernel build options ... It depends on whether you use the kernel drivers or the alsa-driver package, I think. you dont use alsa-driver with 2.6 kernels and the 2006.1 profiles are 2.6 based You can use alsa-driver with 2.6 kernels. I use alsa-driver with 2.6 kernels. I forget exactly why (this was almost two years ago), but I actually switched _away_ from the in-kernel-tree drivers to alsa-driver for some particular reason. I have the oss useflag turned off, and then turned back on for alsa-driver in package.use. -- # # electronerd, the electronerdian from electronerdia # pgpa5PBuL3EH2.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] Default useflag cleanups: -apm -foomaticdb -fortran -imlib -motif -oss -xmms
On Mon, 05 Jun 2006 21:23:58 -0400, Chris Gianelloni [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: There are *many* applications in the tree that do not use ALSA, but work only via the OSS emulation. Removing this is a bad idea and it would definitely be blocked by the games team. Probably half of the packages that I maintain require OSS capabilities. I think the problem is that the oss flag is used for (at least) two slighlty different things: - in alsa-driver, it adds OSS capabilities. That's something most people want, and should be enable by default. - in most (all?) other packages, it enables optionnal OSS output. That's something most people don't use and don't wan't enabled by default. Imho, when there is no good global value for a flag, it means it shouldn't be a single global flag (at least, until there is some kind of per-package defaults support in Portage). So, what about a local oss-emulation flag instead in alsa-drivers, which would be the only one turned on in profiles? Wouldn't it makes everyone happy? -- TGL. -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] Default useflag cleanups: -apm -foomaticdb -fortran -imlib -motif -oss -xmms
Mike Frysinger wrote: -fortran - Do we really need this outdated language as a default in gcc? fortran 4 eva -mike Mike, Are you flashing fortran gang signs at us? -- Doug Goldstein [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://dev.gentoo.org/~cardoe/ signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] Default useflag cleanups: -apm -foomaticdb -fortran -imlib -motif -oss -xmms
On Tuesday 06 June 2006 04:45, Andrew Muraco wrote: Sorry for the offtopic of this, but what would a user set as the useflags to have GTK-2 used by default, and GTK-1 for apps that only support it? (but not build GTK-2-capable apps with GTK-1) Just the gtk use flag. Carsten pgp2dKgmdERfv.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] Default useflag cleanups: -apm -foomaticdb -fortran -imlib -motif -oss -xmms
On Tuesday 06 June 2006 06:07, Mike Frysinger wrote: mikmod is the only one i'd keep ... people generally want mikmod whether or not they know it ;) I'd say 99,9% don't want mikmod. Arguments please, not vague assertions. :) Carsten pgpMnmHuAbjLA.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] Default useflag cleanups: -apm -foomaticdb -fortran -imlib -motif -oss -xmms
On Tuesday 06 June 2006 11:17, Carsten Lohrke wrote: I'd say 99,9% don't want mikmod. Arguments please, not vague assertions. :) SDL based games requires mikmod quite often. I suppose Mike knows what he's saying. -- Diego Flameeyes Pettenò - http://farragut.flameeyes.is-a-geek.org/ Gentoo/Alt lead, Gentoo/FreeBSD, Video, AMD64, Sound, PAM, KDE pgp5k7lnsFXCV.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] Default useflag cleanups: -apm -foomaticdb -fortran -imlib -motif -oss -xmms
On Tuesday 06 June 2006 08:34, John Myers wrote: I use alsa-driver with 2.6 kernels. I forget exactly why (this was almost two years ago), but I actually switched _away_ from the in-kernel-tree drivers to alsa-driver for some particular reason. There are a few issues with in-kernel driver when they are not in-sync with the userland, ALSA does not assure compatibility between versions. -- Diego Flameeyes Pettenò - http://farragut.flameeyes.is-a-geek.org/ Gentoo/Alt lead, Gentoo/FreeBSD, Video, AMD64, Sound, PAM, KDE pgpg3hG1xnqEh.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] Default useflag cleanups: -apm -foomaticdb -fortran -imlib -motif -oss -xmms
On Tuesday 06 June 2006 11:25, Diego 'Flameeyes' Pettenò wrote: SDL based games requires mikmod quite often. I suppose Mike knows what he's saying. It's a difference to know that, compared to share ones thoughts, which Mike missed to do. Carsten pgp1iJ8Y6QlGG.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] Default useflag cleanups: -apm -foomaticdb -fortran -imlib -motif -oss -xmms
On Tue, 2006-06-06 at 00:07 -0400, Mike Frysinger wrote: There are *many* applications in the tree that do not use ALSA, but work only via the OSS emulation. Removing this is a bad idea and it would definitely be blocked by the games team. Probably half of the packages that I maintain require OSS capabilities. do we really need the USE flag though ? i was under the impression that you need to enable the OSS compat layer in the kernel and that's enough ... and the USE flag doesnt affect kernel build options ... Only if you use the in-kernel ALSA. If you use the external alsa-driver, then the OSS support is controlled by the USE flag. umm, add back in fortran there bub I never touched it. It's in default-linux, not in my profile. So does anyone have any objections to the others being removed? (apm imlib mikmod motif xmms) mikmod is the only one i'd keep ... people generally want mikmod whether or not they know it ;) I was wondering if we should keep it. There are quite a few packages that we know of that require it to be built into sdl-mixer, but I think we're currently masking a lot of the bugs in the ebuilds because it is set as default. At any rate, I've added it back to the keep pile. -- Chris Gianelloni Release Engineering - Strategic Lead x86 Architecture Team Games - Developer Gentoo Linux signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: [gentoo-dev] Default useflag cleanups: -apm -foomaticdb -fortran -imlib -motif -oss -xmms
On Tue, 2006-06-06 at 08:40 +0200, Thomas de Grenier de Latour wrote: On Mon, 05 Jun 2006 21:23:58 -0400, Chris Gianelloni [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: There are *many* applications in the tree that do not use ALSA, but work only via the OSS emulation. Removing this is a bad idea and it would definitely be blocked by the games team. Probably half of the packages that I maintain require OSS capabilities. I think the problem is that the oss flag is used for (at least) two slighlty different things: - in alsa-driver, it adds OSS capabilities. That's something most people want, and should be enable by default. - in most (all?) other packages, it enables optionnal OSS output. That's something most people don't use and don't wan't enabled by default. Imho, when there is no good global value for a flag, it means it shouldn't be a single global flag (at least, until there is some kind of per-package defaults support in Portage). So, what about a local oss-emulation flag instead in alsa-drivers, which would be the only one turned on in profiles? Wouldn't it makes everyone happy? It would satisfy my requirements/needs. -- Chris Gianelloni Release Engineering - Strategic Lead x86 Architecture Team Games - Developer Gentoo Linux signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: [gentoo-dev] Default useflag cleanups: -apm -foomaticdb -fortran -imlib -motif -oss -xmms
Am Montag, 5. Juni 2006 18:03 schrieb Stefan Schweizer: today I would like to propose a few default keywords for removal. keywords? They are outdated and no longer needed on current systems: -fortran - Do we really need this outdated language as a default in gcc? Remove this and you'll break merging of approx. 30% of the ebuild in scientific herd. As long as there is no use-based deps, fortran should stay in default. Danny -- Danny van Dyk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Gentoo/AMD64 Project, Gentoo Scientific Project -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] Default useflag cleanups: -apm -foomaticdb -fortran -imlib -motif -oss -xmms
On Wed, 2006-06-07 at 01:05 +0200, Danny van Dyk wrote: Am Montag, 5. Juni 2006 18:03 schrieb Stefan Schweizer: today I would like to propose a few default keywords for removal. keywords? They are outdated and no longer needed on current systems: -fortran - Do we really need this outdated language as a default in gcc? Remove this and you'll break merging of approx. 30% of the ebuild in scientific herd. As long as there is no use-based deps, fortran should stay in default. I had no intentions of touching anything in the default-linux/make.defaults, as they are all there for a reason. -- Chris Gianelloni Release Engineering - Strategic Lead x86 Architecture Team Games - Developer Gentoo Linux signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: [gentoo-dev] Default useflag cleanups: -apm -foomaticdb -fortran -imlib -motif -oss -xmms
Stefan Schweizer wrote: [Mon Jun 05 2006, 11:03:57AM CDT] -fortran - Do we really need this outdated language as a default in gcc? Although outdated, there are still a lot of applications that use it. More importantly, there are a lot of well-tested numerical libraries that exist in fortran that really aren't worth porting to another language, so a lot of stuff in our tree still requires a fortran compiler. (I don't have good statistics on exactly how much of the tree does, however, so if somebody wants to compile some) Until use-based dependencies arrive, I think it's still required. -motif - is unmaintained in portage and rather outdated, does not look good. Should not be default for optional interfaces I believe that flag is mainly there to reduce the Hey, my xpdf package lacks the xpdf binary bugs. -g2boojum- -- Grant Goodyear Gentoo Developer [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.gentoo.org/~g2boojum GPG Fingerprint: D706 9802 1663 DEF5 81B0 9573 A6DC 7152 E0F6 5B76 pgpvktp4GzQDp.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] Default useflag cleanups: -apm -foomaticdb -fortran -imlib -motif -oss -xmms
Stefan Schweizer wrote: -fortran - Do we really need this outdated language as a default in gcc? I am not on the toolchain team, but I _think_ the reason this is on by default is because fortran is considered part of a standard gcc installation (by upstream, etc). -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] Default useflag cleanups: -apm -foomaticdb -fortran -imlib -motif -oss -xmms
On Mon, Jun 05, 2006 at 06:03:57PM +0200, Stefan Schweizer wrote: Hi, today I would like to propose a few default keywords for removal. They are outdated and no longer needed on current systems: -imlib - imlib depends on gtk-1, which imo should not be installed in a default gentoo installation - there should be no legacy depends for a plain emerge kde. I see imlib doesn't forcibly depend on gtk1 in the 1.9.15 version. It's been in the tree for a year, but never unmasked apparently. Maybe that would be a better idea than removing this flag as a default? (Honest question, I'm not sure.) -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] Default useflag cleanups: -apm -foomaticdb -fortran -imlib -motif -oss -xmms
On Monday 05 June 2006 18:03, Stefan Schweizer wrote: I would like to make the changes in a new 2006.1 profile, how do I go about that? I think the current profiles should not be touched, since some users may still be using the flags. Yes, 2006.1. Any comments/objections - any outdated useflags I forgot? Have a look at /usr/portage/profiles/default-linux/x86/2006.0/make.defaults for the list of current default use flags. I think gtk2 should be finally removed¹ from all packages and from make.defaults as well, before the 2006.1 release. Maintainers, who explicitly want to allow building against using Gtk 1, should default their ebuilds to Gtk 2 and add a (local) gtk1 use flag instead. Is there a good reason, why mikmod is a enabled by default? [1] https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=106560 Carsten pgp87dCwsaOKF.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] Default useflag cleanups: -apm -foomaticdb -fortran -imlib -motif -oss -xmms
On Mon, Jun 05, 2006 at 06:59:22PM +0200, Carsten Lohrke wrote: Any comments/objections - any outdated useflags I forgot? Have a look at /usr/portage/profiles/default-linux/x86/2006.0/make.defaults for the list of current default use flags. I think gtk2 should be finally removed¹ from all packages and from make.defaults as well, before the 2006.1 release. Maintainers, who explicitly want to allow building against using Gtk 1, should default their ebuilds to Gtk 2 and add a (local) gtk1 use flag instead. No, the decision with the gtk/gtk2 USE flag mess was to have package maintainers decide for each ebuild whether to support only gtk1 or only gtk2, but not have support for both in a single ebuild. The decision before that (and one with more support, IIRC) was to have one flag for gtk1, and one flag for gtk2. But what you're proposing now is getting back to the old mess, except defaulting to gtk2 instead of gtk1. That not only doesn't fix anything, but even says that gtk1 support was removed from a bunch of ebuilds for no benefit whatsoever. Please don't do that. -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] Default useflag cleanups: -apm -foomaticdb -fortran -imlib -motif -oss -xmms
Monday, 5. June 2006 18:03, Stefan Schweizer Ви написали: -fortran - Do we really need this outdated language as a default in gcc? Which one, Fortran-99 or Fortran-2006? ;) (Well, Ok, gfortran in gcc does not do 2006 yet, but still..) On the usage side: if you do that (i.e. remove it) you will be amazed by how many packages need it and how many users will cry foul because some dependency of their favorite app requires Fortran and now they have to rebuild gcc (or they even have no idea where to get Fortran from; yea, that happened too). It is for this precise reason that this useflag was *added* to default profiles not so long ago (well, about two years now :)). And this is like the 3rd time somebody wants to rip it off, just because this is some kind of outdated language ;). Can we please leave it alone finally? Pretty please? :). George -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] Default useflag cleanups: -apm -foomaticdb -fortran -imlib -motif -oss -xmms
On Mon, 2006-06-05 at 18:03 +0200, Stefan Schweizer wrote: I would like to make the changes in a new 2006.1 profile, how do I go about that? I think the current profiles should not be touched, since some users may still be using the flags. Considering most architectures already have a 2006.1 profile in development, you talk with Release Engineering or the arch teams to get the profile changes made. Any comments/objections - any outdated useflags I forgot? Yeah. Don't touch the x86 2006.1 profiles. Once the merit of removing/adding any flags has been discussed here, I'll make the changes to the development 2006.1 profile for x86. Have a look at /usr/portage/profiles/default-linux/x86/2006.0/make.defaults for the list of current default use flags. No. Have a look at /usr/portage/profiles/default-linux/x86/dev/2006.1/desktop/make.defaults for the list of what will be the default USE flags. Please be sure to actually talk to the teams in question before making such requests as this in the future. It really helps if you work with the teams rather than going all rogue with this stuff. Thanks, -- Chris Gianelloni Release Engineering - Strategic Lead x86 Architecture Team Games - Developer Gentoo Linux signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: [gentoo-dev] Default useflag cleanups: -apm -foomaticdb -fortran -imlib -motif -oss -xmms
On Mon, Jun 05, 2006 at 07:03:57PM +0200, Stefan Schweizer wrote: today I would like to propose a few default keywords for removal. They are outdated and no longer needed on current systems: What do you want to remove, the use flags themselves or just turn them off in the profiles? -xmms - xmms depends on gtk-1 and has been superseeded by audacious/bmpx xmms is still in the tree? People (ok, at least me ;-) ) still use it? I don't mind if it has to go and there are alternatives, but why would you just want to remove its use flag and not the package itself? If it needs to go, either dump all of it or nothing. cheers, Wernfried -- Wernfried Haas (amne) - amne at gentoo dot org Gentoo Forums: http://forums.gentoo.org IRC: #gentoo-forums on freenode - email: forum-mods at gentoo dot org pgp55p4VPF3NW.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] Default useflag cleanups: -apm -foomaticdb -fortran -imlib -motif -oss -xmms
On Monday 05 June 2006 20:08, Harald van Dijk wrote: No, the decision with the gtk/gtk2 USE flag mess was to have package maintainers decide for each ebuild whether to support only gtk1 or only gtk2, but not have support for both in a single ebuild. I know about the decision of the Gnome team, but there also was a thread with maintainers refusing to remove optional gtk1|2 support, if I recall correctly. Personally I couldn't care less, as long as the gtk2 flag is history. Carsten pgpE5mi6hfQyp.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] Default useflag cleanups: -apm -foomaticdb -fortran -imlib -motif -oss -xmms
On Monday 05 June 2006 20:52, Chris Gianelloni wrote: Have a look at /usr/portage/profiles/default-linux/x86/2006.0/make.defaults for the list of current default use flags. I think it's a bad idea to have win32codecs in make.defaults. There's quite a number of codecs in the package and I'm not so sure, that we even notice, when there are any vulnerable ones. Also the licensening and distribution question is everything else than clear. btw.: We don't even have a avi use flag in the tree anymore. Carsten pgpFldGsBUj3v.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] Default useflag cleanups: -apm -foomaticdb -fortran -imlib -motif -oss -xmms
On Mon, 2006-06-05 at 21:22 +0200, Wernfried Haas wrote: On Mon, Jun 05, 2006 at 07:03:57PM +0200, Stefan Schweizer wrote: today I would like to propose a few default keywords for removal. They are outdated and no longer needed on current systems: What do you want to remove, the use flags themselves or just turn them off in the profiles? -xmms - xmms depends on gtk-1 and has been superseeded by audacious/bmpx xmms is still in the tree? People (ok, at least me ;-) ) still use it? I don't mind if it has to go and there are alternatives, but why would you just want to remove its use flag and not the package itself? If it needs to go, either dump all of it or nothing. Xmms will be removed soon... Lot's of users still use xmms mostly because it has many plugins that others don't. Xmms is still stable but the upstream is dead so it won't take our patchset. In the end of this year i would like to remove xmms and all plugins but before i need to prepare users for this changes and clean some maintainer-wanted bugs for plugins. -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] Default useflag cleanups: -apm -foomaticdb -fortran -imlib -motif -oss -xmms
On Mon, Jun 05, 2006 at 09:58:46PM +0100, Luis Medinas wrote: xmms is still in the tree? People (ok, at least me ;-) ) still use it? I don't mind if it has to go and there are alternatives, but why would you just want to remove its use flag and not the package itself? If it needs to go, either dump all of it or nothing. Xmms will be removed soon... Lot's of users still use xmms mostly because it has many plugins that others don't. Xmms is still stable but the upstream is dead so it won't take our patchset. In the end of this year i would like to remove xmms and all plugins but before i need to prepare users for this changes and clean some maintainer-wanted bugs for plugins. I see, in that case it does make sense to remove the use flag at some point, too. Thanks for clearing it up. cheers, Wernfried -- Wernfried Haas (amne) - amne at gentoo dot org Gentoo Forums: http://forums.gentoo.org IRC: #gentoo-forums on freenode - email: forum-mods at gentoo dot org pgpEfG8KKV51C.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] Default useflag cleanups: -apm -foomaticdb -fortran -imlib -motif -oss -xmms
On Mon, 2006-06-05 at 21:57 +0200, Carsten Lohrke wrote: On Monday 05 June 2006 20:52, Chris Gianelloni wrote: Have a look at /usr/portage/profiles/default-linux/x86/2006.0/make.defaults for the list of current default use flags. I think it's a bad idea to have win32codecs in make.defaults. There's quite a number of codecs in the package and I'm not so sure, that we even notice, when there are any vulnerable ones. Also the licensening and distribution question is everything else than clear. Well, it doesn't affect stages, and GRP stuff is done w/ USE=bindist, so again, this is a non-issue. btw.: We don't even have a avi use flag in the tree anymore. Again, I haven't been in the habit of removing anything I haven't seen a bug about. I'll remove avi now. -- Chris Gianelloni Release Engineering - Strategic Lead x86 Architecture Team Games - Developer Gentoo Linux signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: [gentoo-dev] Default useflag cleanups: -apm -foomaticdb -fortran -imlib -motif -oss -xmms
On Monday 05 June 2006 23:25, Chris Gianelloni wrote: Well, it doesn't affect stages, and GRP stuff is done w/ USE=bindist, so again, this is a non-issue. Well, I didn't mean our binary releases, but being held liable for making property of others available by default, without the permission to do so. Probably not the point, though, since if this argument would be tested, it would already suffice, that the ebuilds are in Portage. My main point is the security status anyways. I don't think we can ensure, that we'll catch known vulnerabilitis for these codecs. I strongly suggest to remove the use flag. Again, I haven't been in the habit of removing anything I haven't seen a bug about. I'll remove avi now. Wasn't a reproach (in case you took it for that). Just noticed it. Carsten pgp2I4M9mOFw6.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] Default useflag cleanups: -apm -foomaticdb -fortran -imlib -motif -oss -xmms
On Mon, 2006-06-05 at 18:03 +0200, Stefan Schweizer wrote: -foomaticdb - foomaticdb is only used for development foomatic xml files. SInce most of our users do not develop printer drivers I suggest making ppds a default use flag instead. Should we have ppds in the 2006.1 profile, or 2006.1/desktop? -oss - oss is a legacy audio interface that has been superseeded by alsa in most current installs, a default use flag is no longer needed There are *many* applications in the tree that do not use ALSA, but work only via the OSS emulation. Removing this is a bad idea and it would definitely be blocked by the games team. Probably half of the packages that I maintain require OSS capabilities. As for the others, they all seem reasonable. I've removed them from the main USE cluster in the x86/dev/2006.1/desktop profile, and into a separate grouping, so they can be easily removed, if that ends up being the decision. So does anyone have any objections to the others being removed? (apm imlib mikmod motif xmms) I won't, of course, do this retroactively, just for the 2006.1 and higher profiles. -- Chris Gianelloni Release Engineering - Strategic Lead x86 Architecture Team Games - Developer Gentoo Linux signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: [gentoo-dev] Default useflag cleanups: -apm -foomaticdb -fortran -imlib -motif -oss -xmms
Carsten Lohrke wrote: On Monday 05 June 2006 20:08, Harald van Dijk wrote: No, the decision with the gtk/gtk2 USE flag mess was to have package maintainers decide for each ebuild whether to support only gtk1 or only gtk2, but not have support for both in a single ebuild. I know about the decision of the Gnome team, but there also was a thread with maintainers refusing to remove optional gtk1|2 support, if I recall correctly. Personally I couldn't care less, as long as the gtk2 flag is history. Sorry for the offtopic of this, but what would a user set as the useflags to have GTK-2 used by default, and GTK-1 for apps that only support it? (but not build GTK-2-capable apps with GTK-1) Just wondering, because I know that gmplayer is from the mplayer package's gtk flag.. its gtk-1 so its not the optimal, but since i don't know of a gtk2 version (i do have kmplayer tho.. so its sorta a moot point for me.. i think its time i clean my install..) Anyways, I agree that some of the defaults are a bit more liberal then i would perfer, but hey, i can change anything i want (thats the power of gentoo) Thanks, Andrew -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] Default useflag cleanups: -apm -foomaticdb -fortran -imlib -motif -oss -xmms
On Monday 05 June 2006 12:16, Patrick McLean wrote: Stefan Schweizer wrote: -fortran - Do we really need this outdated language as a default in gcc? I am not on the toolchain team, but I _think_ the reason this is on by default is because fortran is considered part of a standard gcc installation (by upstream, etc). pretty much ... fortran is expected to be part of the default build thus it is i personally disable fortran on all my machines though ;) -mike pgpiBe3mciBTR.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] Default useflag cleanups: -apm -foomaticdb -fortran -imlib -motif -oss -xmms
On Monday 05 June 2006 12:03, Stefan Schweizer wrote: -apm -imlib -motif kill em ! -fortran - Do we really need this outdated language as a default in gcc? fortran 4 eva -mike pgpZ84k1Z4HDK.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] Default useflag cleanups: -apm -foomaticdb -fortran -imlib -motif -oss -xmms
On Monday 05 June 2006 21:23, Chris Gianelloni wrote: On Mon, 2006-06-05 at 18:03 +0200, Stefan Schweizer wrote: -oss - oss is a legacy audio interface that has been superseeded by alsa in most current installs, a default use flag is no longer needed There are *many* applications in the tree that do not use ALSA, but work only via the OSS emulation. Removing this is a bad idea and it would definitely be blocked by the games team. Probably half of the packages that I maintain require OSS capabilities. do we really need the USE flag though ? i was under the impression that you need to enable the OSS compat layer in the kernel and that's enough ... and the USE flag doesnt affect kernel build options ... As for the others, they all seem reasonable. I've removed them from the main USE cluster in the x86/dev/2006.1/desktop profile, and into a separate grouping, so they can be easily removed, if that ends up being the decision. umm, add back in fortran there bub So does anyone have any objections to the others being removed? (apm imlib mikmod motif xmms) mikmod is the only one i'd keep ... people generally want mikmod whether or not they know it ;) -mike pgpGgc2ayavrr.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] Default useflag cleanups: -apm -foomaticdb -fortran -imlib -motif -oss -xmms
On Tue, Jun 06, 2006 at 12:07:42AM -0400, Mike Frysinger wrote: On Monday 05 June 2006 21:23, Chris Gianelloni wrote: On Mon, 2006-06-05 at 18:03 +0200, Stefan Schweizer wrote: -oss - oss is a legacy audio interface that has been superseeded by alsa in most current installs, a default use flag is no longer needed There are *many* applications in the tree that do not use ALSA, but work only via the OSS emulation. Removing this is a bad idea and it would definitely be blocked by the games team. Probably half of the packages that I maintain require OSS capabilities. do we really need the USE flag though ? i was under the impression that you need to enable the OSS compat layer in the kernel and that's enough ... and the USE flag doesnt affect kernel build options ... It depends on whether you use the kernel drivers or the alsa-driver package, I think. -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] Default useflag cleanups: -apm -foomaticdb -fortran -imlib -motif -oss -xmms
On Tuesday 06 June 2006 01:31, Harald van Dijk wrote: On Tue, Jun 06, 2006 at 12:07:42AM -0400, Mike Frysinger wrote: On Monday 05 June 2006 21:23, Chris Gianelloni wrote: On Mon, 2006-06-05 at 18:03 +0200, Stefan Schweizer wrote: -oss - oss is a legacy audio interface that has been superseeded by alsa in most current installs, a default use flag is no longer needed There are *many* applications in the tree that do not use ALSA, but work only via the OSS emulation. Removing this is a bad idea and it would definitely be blocked by the games team. Probably half of the packages that I maintain require OSS capabilities. do we really need the USE flag though ? i was under the impression that you need to enable the OSS compat layer in the kernel and that's enough ... and the USE flag doesnt affect kernel build options ... It depends on whether you use the kernel drivers or the alsa-driver package, I think. you dont use alsa-driver with 2.6 kernels and the 2006.1 profiles are 2.6 based -mike pgpPVpHq02df6.pgp Description: PGP signature