RE: [gentoo-dev] Re: bug-wrangling (was: [warning] the bug queue has 111 bugs)
Ian Stakenvicius wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA256 On 17/04/15 12:13 PM, Franz Fellner wrote: Alex Alexander wrote: Our bug queue has 111 bugs! If you have some spare time, please help assign/sort a few bugs. To view the bug queue, click here: http://bit.ly/m8PQS5 Thanks! Is there something non-devs could do? Would it be OK to just CC HERD mail from epkginfo (as I am not allowed to reassign). Because I at least once a day browse the bug database and could at least CC some of the new bugs. A few years before I became I dev, I did a short stint as a bug-wrangler -- iirc all you need to do is train yourself via the bug-wrangling guide and find someone to vouch for you in order to obtain write-access to bugzilla. I don't know who you would talk to about this right now (NP-Hardass maybe??) but I'm sure that we could use the help, if you wanted to lend a hand. Ian, thx for your answer! I thought about it if I really want to become a DEV, and I still don't know. I think I will just go and contact bug-wranglers and look what's happending ;) It just hurts to see those daily messages about un-assigned bugs :/ -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2 iF4EAREIAAYFAlUxSJgACgkQ2ugaI38ACPCQJwD9HCxFXXsnUXR5WU3dHBsvO93Z v7u2nzotdNAREAOBRekBAKRpu8xdSfxeE5GIBF0KOEGBqNMZ3Mtl2jjluN7EQZfs =qR8R -END PGP SIGNATURE-
[gentoo-dev] Re: bug-wrangling (was: [warning] the bug queue has 111 bugs)
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA256 On 17/04/15 12:13 PM, Franz Fellner wrote: Alex Alexander wrote: Our bug queue has 111 bugs! If you have some spare time, please help assign/sort a few bugs. To view the bug queue, click here: http://bit.ly/m8PQS5 Thanks! Is there something non-devs could do? Would it be OK to just CC HERD mail from epkginfo (as I am not allowed to reassign). Because I at least once a day browse the bug database and could at least CC some of the new bugs. A few years before I became I dev, I did a short stint as a bug-wrangler -- iirc all you need to do is train yourself via the bug-wrangling guide and find someone to vouch for you in order to obtain write-access to bugzilla. I don't know who you would talk to about this right now (NP-Hardass maybe??) but I'm sure that we could use the help, if you wanted to lend a hand. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2 iF4EAREIAAYFAlUxSJgACgkQ2ugaI38ACPCQJwD9HCxFXXsnUXR5WU3dHBsvO93Z v7u2nzotdNAREAOBRekBAKRpu8xdSfxeE5GIBF0KOEGBqNMZ3Mtl2jjluN7EQZfs =qR8R -END PGP SIGNATURE-
[gentoo-dev] Re: Bug wrangling
Diego 'Flameeyes' Pettenò wrote: Donnie Berkholz [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Would it be possible to add the tree categories as products and the packages as components thereof? It makes moving a bug from one package to another quite a complex task though, as it requires two confirmation screens... and trust me that happens often enough. Shouldn't that just be scripted via pybugz? A GUI for that would be nice; perhaps as a pida[1] module. Frankly it appals me that y'all have so much time to write bash scriptlets and none to develop tools for your own use. Plus that would work fine if we had a bugzilla for ebuilds only, but would you really mix categories together with Infra, Portage, Gentoo Hosted Projects, ... ? Who cares? It's more organisation than you have now, and as I understand Duncan's suggestion it's first about adding a category above pkgs within Ebuilds foo (though I think he mixed up interface and tables a bit, sorry Duncan ;) Tree is the most fundamental work, besides portage. I guess a tag cloud would be nice tho. No reason you can't build associated metadata webapps on another host (cf beandog's portage postgres db[2].) [1] http://pida.co.uk/ [2] http://packages.larrythecow.org/ there's a FF plugin at: http://mycroft.mozdev.org/download.html?name=larrythecow -- gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
[gentoo-dev] Re: Bug wrangling
Steve Long [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: It makes moving a bug from one package to another quite a complex task though, as it requires two confirmation screens... and trust me that happens often enough. Shouldn't that just be scripted via pybugz? A GUI for that would be nice; perhaps as a pida[1] module. Frankly it appals me that y'all have so much time to write bash scriptlets and none to develop tools for your own use. I like Bugzilla for the very reason I can look, comment and in general manage bugs with decency without needing client software beside a webbrowser, and I'm rarely without a webbrowser, heck, I had one at hand even while I was hospitalised (not in the ICU though, that was boring). Anything that requires me an extra software is something that I'm more likely _not_ going to use. Plus that would work fine if we had a bugzilla for ebuilds only, but would you really mix categories together with Infra, Portage, Gentoo Hosted Projects, ... ? Who cares? Uh, I do, as I tend to report a lot of bugs and I don't want to have to use the find command of my browser to see where the heck should I report it. Don't even get me started on template bugs that I use to mass-report problems. And probably most users would find the huge and long product list to choose from most likely confusing. Users can't get it right already with the short list we have, reporting bugs on Bugzilla product which have nothing to do with Bugzilla... -- Diego Flameeyes Pettenò http://blog.flameeyes.eu/ pgpLxXSM4xO5z.pgp Description: PGP signature
[gentoo-dev] Re: Bug wrangling
Diego 'Flameeyes' Pettenò wrote: Steve Long [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: It makes moving a bug from one package to another quite a complex task though, as it requires two confirmation screens... and trust me that happens often enough. Shouldn't that just be scripted via pybugz? A GUI for that would be nice; perhaps as a pida[1] module. Frankly it appals me that y'all have so much time to write bash scriptlets and none to develop tools for your own use. I like Bugzilla for the very reason I can look, comment and in general manage bugs with decency without needing client software beside a webbrowser, and I'm rarely without a webbrowser, heck, I had one at hand even while I was hospitalised (not in the ICU though, that was boring). Anything that requires me an extra software is something that I'm more likely _not_ going to use. OK so you'd like a webapp version as well. [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Users regularly offer help in this kind of area, simply because they use the same interfaces as the devs, only for it to fall at the second or third dev they interact with, if they're lucky. ] Plus that would work fine if we had a bugzilla for ebuilds only, but would you really mix categories together with Infra, Portage, Gentoo Hosted Projects, ... ? Who cares? Uh, I do, as I tend to report a lot of bugs and I don't want to have to use the find command of my browser to see where the heck should I report it. Don't even get me started on template bugs that I use to mass-report problems. And probably most users would find the huge and long product list to choose from most likely confusing. Users can't get it right already with the short list we have, reporting bugs on Bugzilla product which have nothing to do with Bugzilla... Yeah but the point of hierarchy is so that you do one step at a time (if you want) via category - package or just file the way you're used to. We're still only talking about a small part, in data structural terms, of bugzilla's schema, however much storage is allocated to the base level bugs. Keeping existing workflow would seem to be a requirement. -- gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Bug wrangling
Steve Long a écrit : Mark Loeser wrote: Making an actual bug wrangling team (subproject of QA) is something I've been toying around with in my head. I'd love to get an actual team set up so we can encourage users to help us get the information we need in bugs so it is less work for us. Several other distributions have such projects, so we have something we can use as a template. Getting a team is an excellent idea. Jakub is one of those folks that turn a boring yet essential activity into a craft (with the best possible meaning of the word craft). We all know which devs/herds bugs should be assigned to, we all know most bugs aren't complete if emerge --info is not provided, that sort of things. But Real Bug Masters (tm) know all the dupes, know all the current problems in our various trees and arches, and act as bug-spam filters for the herds. So while we can and do *survive* without Jakub, his role is invaluable and having a proper team can only help us in the long term. That requires non-technical things (*cough* follow-up) like a sense of teamwork, and not looking down on people who don't have cvs commit access. FWIW, Jakub never had CVS commit access, and specifically refused it. He's only ever worked with Bugzilla and IRC (to ping, poke or harass devs :) ) Cheers Rémi -- gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Bug wrangling
On 08:03 Tue 13 May , Rémi Cardona wrote: We all know which devs/herds bugs should be assigned to, we all know most bugs aren't complete if emerge --info is not provided, that sort of things. But Real Bug Masters (tm) know all the dupes, know all the current problems in our various trees and arches, and act as bug-spam filters for the herds. Would it be possible to add the tree categories as products and the packages as components thereof? That would significantly increase the odds of correct assignment, because we could save the per-package assignees in the database. Thanks, Donnie -- gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
[gentoo-dev] Re: Bug wrangling
Donnie Berkholz [EMAIL PROTECTED] posted [EMAIL PROTECTED], excerpted below, on Mon, 12 May 2008 23:47:49 -0700: Would it be possible to add the tree categories as products and the packages as components thereof? That would significantly increase the odds of correct assignment, because we could save the per-package assignees in the database. ++ I've wondered since I first began working with Gentoo why we couldn't just do something simple like that. The way it's setup now has got to be the most obtuse, non-intuitive organization for a simple user to try to navigate and actually get right, that I've ever seen. Something simple like cat/pkg would definitely be easier for the newbie user than having everything (well, pretty much everything a user's going to file bugs on, anyway) under Gentoo Linux /except/ a few things like portage, and then trying to figure out whether (say) a non-core KDE sound app goes in KDE, apps, sound, or ebuilds because it's an ebuild bug, or what. What would it take to make it tri-level? Then put just two choices at the top level, like so: Level 1: package-tree, all-other Level 2: 2-tree: cat 2-other: infra, admin, docs, rel-media Level 3: 3-cat: pkg 3-infra: mirrors, website, bugz, infra-other 3-admin: userrel, devrel, recruitement, admin-other 3-docs: doc-trans, docs-gentoo, docs-not-gentoo 3-rel-media: ... If we went 4-level we could then add what's currently components under some of the top-level stuff. To me, that'd be about the most logical and intuitive layout possible, but it'd take at least three levels to do right. The two-way tree/non- tree split at the top, and cat/pkg on the tree side, would /vastly/ simplify bug filing for most users. I know the first few times I filed a Gentoo bug, I was asking myself if Gentoo /deliberately/ made it obtuse, because I couldn't figure out how it could /possibly/ be that unintuitive by mere accident. The product as a separate page did make things easier, but all one has to do is take a look at the notes on the page to see it's still anything but intuitive. -- Duncan - List replies preferred. No HTML msgs. Every nonfree program has a lord, a master -- and if you use the program, he is your master. Richard Stallman -- gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
[gentoo-dev] Re: Bug wrangling
Donnie Berkholz [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Would it be possible to add the tree categories as products and the packages as components thereof? It makes moving a bug from one package to another quite a complex task though, as it requires two confirmation screens... and trust me that happens often enough. Plus that would work fine if we had a bugzilla for ebuilds only, but would you really mix categories together with Infra, Portage, Gentoo Hosted Projects, ... ? -- Diego Flameeyes Pettenò http://blog.flameeyes.eu/ pgpvHLX3kZ64t.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Bug wrangling
Donnie Berkholz wrote: On 08:03 Tue 13 May , Rémi Cardona wrote: We all know which devs/herds bugs should be assigned to, we all know most bugs aren't complete if emerge --info is not provided, that sort of things. But Real Bug Masters (tm) know all the dupes, know all the current problems in our various trees and arches, and act as bug-spam filters for the herds. Would it be possible to add the tree categories as products and the packages as components thereof? That would significantly increase the odds of correct assignment, because we could save the per-package assignees in the database. Thanks, Donnie I've wondered about this myself countless times over the years. -- gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
[gentoo-dev] Re: Bug wrangling
Denis Dupeyron schrieb: That he comes back or not is of no importance to bug wrangling. Or at least it should be. It is a mistake to solely rely on a developer for such a task. Developers come and go without warning, he just proved it, so ideally we need a team of 2 or 3 to handle bug wrangling. Also, one single developer handling this puts him/her in such a prominent position that it is bad for him/her, our users, other developers and the entire project. We had too many examples of this. Fully with you, yet the other people who do bug wrangling occasionally didn't do it as good as him mainly because he followed all major mailinglists and knew the common issues around. I have nowhere an idea how much time he put into his bugwrangling but I bet that reaches at least 5-6 hours a day. Replacing that is simply hard work and nothing else and I'd love to see people stepping up to help with that task. -Jokey -- gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
[gentoo-dev] Re: Bug wrangling
Markus Ullmann [EMAIL PROTECTED] posted [EMAIL PROTECTED], excerpted below, on Mon, 12 May 2008 15:49:30 +0200: Fully with you, yet the other people who do bug wrangling occasionally didn't do it as good as him mainly because he followed all major mailinglists and knew the common issues around. I have nowhere an idea how much time he put into his bugwrangling but I bet that reaches at least 5-6 hours a day. Replacing that is simply hard work and nothing else and I'd love to see people stepping up to help with that task. Yes. He knows his stuff and puts in quite a bit of time. Theoretical problems with relying on one person or not, that just can't be easily or well substituted, in practice, however much it might be a good idea not to rely solely on one person. Like it or not, he is a central enough cog in the machine that when he stops working, even with other cogs in place to try to do the same duty, the entire machine gets glitchy. So thanks, Jakob. We miss you! =8^) -- Duncan - List replies preferred. No HTML msgs. Every nonfree program has a lord, a master -- and if you use the program, he is your master. Richard Stallman -- gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
[gentoo-dev] Re: Bug wrangling
Mark Loeser wrote: Making an actual bug wrangling team (subproject of QA) is something I've been toying around with in my head. I'd love to get an actual team set up so we can encourage users to help us get the information we need in bugs so it is less work for us. Several other distributions have such projects, so we have something we can use as a template. I brought this up last year[1][2] wrt WINE triage. GNOME has a similar thing ofc, so Gentoo devs are used to working with this model. Irrespective, it doesn't preclude the need for a good bugmaster[3] but should be seen as complementary to that person (it's rarely more than one apparently) iow to support that person in their work. That requires non-technical things (*cough* follow-up) like a sense of teamwork, and not looking down on people who don't have cvs commit access. Of course those also make it more likely that people will want to volunteer for triage, or indeed anything else (which can be a virtuous circle.) I'd moot Patrick as a useful bod because he can automate much of this. [1] http://article.gmane.org/gmane.linux.gentoo.devel/46855 [2] http://article.gmane.org/gmane.linux.gentoo.devel/49546 [3] http://tieguy.org/talks/LCA-2005-paper-html/index.html -- gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
