Re: [gentoo-dev] GLEP 42 (Was: Getting Important Updates To Users)

2005-11-01 Thread Jason Stubbs
On Tuesday 01 November 2005 08:46, Brian Harring wrote:
 On Tue, Nov 01, 2005 at 08:36:23AM +0900, Chris White wrote:
  Attached in plain text form is glep 42 for the discussed thread.
  emerge --news support
  -
 
  As already mentioned by Stuart, in this way users are bound to the one
  thing guaranteed on their system: Portage.  Through portage, the same
  location where etc-update notifications are displayed (after emerge
  --sync and at the finish of an emerge), will contain a notice about news
  updates.  These news updates should come in the form of a file contained
  within the portage tree for users that want news updates on a networkless
  system. Should the user run these items in the background or send the
  output to /dev/null for any reason, a --news option should also be
  avaliable in emerge for them to review the news at a convient time.

 And this file is what format?  How is the format going to be
 structured so that emerge can know what entries to ignore?  How is
 emerge going to pull those entries again?

 What restrictions are there for what goes into this file, to keep the
 signal to noise ratio sane?
 Etc.

 Details man, details.

But before details, what is the reasoning in turning emerge into an offline 
news reader? So that admins that don't care enough to source news information 
via other supported means are covered? What's the functional difference 
between this emerge --news and the existing emerge --changelog? I'd like 
bugs to be better described; should a tutorial be added to emerge as well?

--
Jason Stubbs
-- 
gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list



[gentoo-dev] GLEP 42 (Was: Getting Important Updates To Users)

2005-10-31 Thread Chris White
Attached in plain text form is glep 42 for the discussed thread.

It's rather long, but I hope it details any sort of questions that may be 
brought up.

Chris White
GLEP: 42
Title: Centralized User Updates
Version: $
Last-Modified: $
Author: Chris White [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Status: Draft
Type: Standards Track
Content-Type: text/x-rst
Created: 31-October-2005
Post-History: 31-October-2005


Credits
===

Ideas presented here are a collection of those presented in the gentoo-dev
mailing list, and were headstarted by a planet blog entry by Stuart.

Abstract


This GLEP covers the current state of providing users with a centralized source
of news acquisition.  The centralized areas of information will propigate from a
single source and be distributed through multiple points of user outreach.

Motivation
==

Motivation for the creation of this GLEP lies within the present state of afairs
in providing mission critical update notices to our (Gentoo) user base.
Currently, there are several de-centralized mediums of providing information.
These include:

1. The GWN
2. The Gentoo forums
3. The Gentoo Developer mailing list
4. Other assorted mailing lists

In the current state of affairs, the previously mentioned mediums have the
distinct issue of being seldomly inter-linked.  This means that if a user does
not take part in a certain medium used for distributing important notices, they
will be unable to take action on the information.  This could mean the swift
difference between a working and unusable system.  Examples of this
include:

1. Major kernel upgrades
2. Server updates
3. Major server extension updates
4. Base system layout updates (expecially in the area of networking)

Real world examples of this already exist in the Kernel 2.4 to 2.6 updates,
Apache layout changes, PHP restructuring, and networking support updates.  While
these stated examples could have performed reasonably well, they could of done
better, leading into the implementation of this GLEP.

Implementation
==

First off, it's best one start with the main centralized medium of information,
the gentoo.org front page.

Front Page
--

When a new user first is introduced to Gentoo, they are frequently redirected to
the gentoo.org front page.  Here is where users first get a glimpse of what
Gentoo is, how it works, and most importantly, where to recieve information on
updates.  If a user notices a large number of upgrade and maintainance reports
on the gentoo.org front page, they are more likely to return to it as their
source of information.  With the current system, users have no solid centralized
form of information.  They are told that we (Gentoo) have support avaliable from
our forums, mailing lists, irc channel, and GWN.  However, it does not tell them
where critical updates can be found.  This is why the front page should have
news updates on critical information.  However, while users may see the page and
know the news is there, they might not have the time to actively monitor it.
This leads to the next form of interaction: RSS feeds.

RSS Feeds
-

Currently, the main front page provides an RSS feed for users.  This would
benifit users who want updates propigated to them in a non-interactive manner.
One would come back and find new updates automatically provided to them through
their rss aggregator of choice.  Now users are more likely to obtain their news,
as it is a rather non-obtrusive method of information.  While the RSS feed is
definately a non-obtrusive way to reach users, another more widely read medium
is also avaliable, the forums.

Gentoo Forums
-

The forums happen to be one of the largest support forums on the web.  That
said, they are widely read by Gentoo users for troubleshooting and other forms
of information.  The front page news should most definately be accessed through
the forums as well.  This ensures a large audience to updates.  A News  
Announcements forum already exists for this purpose, and can be utilized
accordingly. However, some people may already be signed up on various mailing 
lists, and want information provided there instead.  One such list is 
gentoo-announce.  

gentoo-announce mailing list


The gentoo-announce mailing list's main function is to provide important
announcements to users.  These important announcements can be considered the
same as those that should be displayed on the main page.  That said, the main
page news feeds should also be sent to gentoo-announce.  This can either be done
through script automation or manual posting.  However, there is also an inherit
problem of users that don't use the internet that frequently, or an rss
aggregator is not a suitable option for them.  This leads to the next form of
implementation: Portage.

emerge --news support
-

As already mentioned by Stuart, in this way users are bound to 

Re: [gentoo-dev] GLEP 42 (Was: Getting Important Updates To Users)

2005-10-31 Thread Ciaran McCreesh
On Tue, 1 Nov 2005 08:36:23 +0900 Chris White [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
| Attached in plain text form is glep 42 for the discussed thread.

This isn't a GLEP. It's a list of vague ideas that doesn't propose
anything concrete or discussable.

-- 
Ciaran McCreesh : Gentoo Developer (Vim, Shell tools, Fluxbox, Cron)
Mail: ciaranm at gentoo.org
Web : http://dev.gentoo.org/~ciaranm



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