Hi all, Our team just had a meeting. We discussed the following topics:
o Upcoming 2005.1 o Reveiwing our default use flags o Deprecation of 2004.3 o Access to our new dev boxes o QA regarding old bugs o Find alternatives for meetings o status of amd64 donations o #gentoo-amd64 cleanup Timestamps in the log are UTC+2, for those who wonder. Enjoy, -- Simon Stelling Gentoo/AMD64 Operational Co-Lead [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Jul 02 20:03:51 * blubb has changed the topic to: Prerelease stages in pitr:/releases/2005.1 DO NOT DISTRUBUTE | Please test gentoo-sources-2.6.12-r2 | http://uberslacks.com/gentoo/amd64/ is down, see plasmaroo for mirror | Next Meeting: NOW Jul 02 20:04:14 LizB *yawn* Of course I could go back to bed...but. Jul 02 20:04:17 blubb Kugelfang: you start with 2005.1? Jul 02 20:04:20 Kugelfang surely Jul 02 20:04:38 Kugelfang i'm pleased to announce that the prerelease snapshot finally resulted in prerelease stages Jul 02 20:04:46 Herbs yay Jul 02 20:04:49 KingTaco Kugelfang, yo Jul 02 20:04:54 LizB oooh Jul 02 20:04:55 Kugelfang prerelease was meant by releng to test out build process Jul 02 20:04:57 Flameeyes wow Jul 02 20:05:22 Kugelfang rocket and wolf has some work to fix up catalyst, and /me had some problems with the 2005.0 seed stage Jul 02 20:05:32 Kugelfang but it worked finally Jul 02 20:05:46 Kugelfang i'd be glad if everybody could test the hell out of those stage Jul 02 20:05:47 Kugelfang s Jul 02 20:05:51 blubb Kugelfang: there won't be any stage2 for the end-user, right? Jul 02 20:05:52 eradicator nice to hear =) Jul 02 20:05:58 Kugelfang blubb: right, no stage2 Jul 02 20:06:06 blubb okay Jul 02 20:06:15 Kugelfang you'll find my latest stages always on pitr in /releases/2005.1 Jul 02 20:06:38 Kugelfang also, i will copy the installcd/packagecd isos over there once they are ready Jul 02 20:06:58 Kugelfang ah yes: GRP is done too, worked like a charm after setting X in USE Jul 02 20:07:00 eradicator what kernel is on it? Jul 02 20:07:05 Kugelfang eradicator: 2.6.12 Jul 02 20:07:29 Kugelfang i've today successfuly built stage1 of a livecd, but i still need stage2 Jul 02 20:07:38 Kugelfang which had slight problems, most of them already fixed Jul 02 20:07:46 LizB mmkay Jul 02 20:07:49 * blubb hopes there is a gentoo-em64t kernel ;) Jul 02 20:07:57 Kugelfang blubb: there will be one Jul 02 20:08:03 LizB heh Jul 02 20:08:05 Kugelfang and this time, a working one Jul 02 20:08:10 blubb heh Jul 02 20:08:10 KingTaco heheh Jul 02 20:08:18 * Kugelfang hides ashamed Jul 02 20:08:22 blubb . o O ( note: boot entry != kernel ) Jul 02 20:08:25 Flameeyes Kugelfang, the livecd are the usual glibc based? Jul 02 20:08:29 Kugelfang Flameeyes: yes Jul 02 20:08:44 Kugelfang Flameeyes: it looks like we'll be using glibc based livecds for all arches Jul 02 20:08:52 Flameeyes k :) just to be sure nobody is going to hate me if something goes wrong with libiconv :P Jul 02 20:09:07 Kugelfang beejay tried long to have a uclibc based livecd, but it didn't work like he wanted it to work Jul 02 20:09:21 Kugelfang Flameeyes: hah... embedded will kill ya :-P Jul 02 20:09:56 Flameeyes Kugelfang, i offered them the maintainership and refused :P Jul 02 20:09:58 Kugelfang like i said: I'm eager on feedback re stages and (upcoming) isos Jul 02 20:10:19 blubb i'll test the livecds next time i screw up my box ;) Jul 02 20:10:25 Kugelfang heh, deal Jul 02 20:10:32 KingTaco how many hours is that? Jul 02 20:10:36 KingTaco :p Jul 02 20:10:38 blubb :P Jul 02 20:10:51 Kugelfang it would be very helpful if we could trace all possible installations Jul 02 20:10:59 dang Kugelfang: What's the difference between the pre and the seed stages? Jul 02 20:11:00 Kugelfang a) upgrades from 2005.0/2004.3 Jul 02 20:11:06 Flameeyes i'll test a a stage after the sys-auth move is complete, i wish to restart working on openpam/linux Jul 02 20:11:07 Kugelfang b) new installation w/o network Jul 02 20:11:15 KingTaco Kugelfang, I have access to a compaq R3000 LT on which I could test Jul 02 20:11:21 Kugelfang c) new install with network in stable and in testing Jul 02 20:11:28 Kugelfang KingTaco: great Jul 02 20:11:43 Kugelfang FYI: these prerelease stages _still_ use the 2005.0 profile Jul 02 20:11:58 blubb uh, why's that? Jul 02 20:12:00 Kugelfang i will switch to 2005.1 as soon as i have positive feedback on the currentttos Jul 02 20:12:09 Kugelfang blubb: i want to know they work Jul 02 20:12:18 allanw i can test also if you guys need to, but someone will have to give me the iso Jul 02 20:12:32 dang No iso yet. Jul 02 20:13:06 eradicator Kugelfang: 2005.1 is pretty much identical to 2005.0 profile Jul 02 20:13:16 Herbs can we give AT's access to pitr? Jul 02 20:13:33 Herbs to make available the stages and release media? Jul 02 20:13:39 KingTaco Herbs, we'll talk about that later Jul 02 20:13:50 KingTaco but yes, it's possible Jul 02 20:13:50 Kugelfang blubb: there is not much change in 2005.0 -> 2005.1 profile transition, so i want to reduce possible sources for bugs Jul 02 20:13:57 Kugelfang eradicator: yes, that's why i still use 2005.0 :-) Jul 02 20:14:11 Kugelfang like i said, the stages of next week will use 2005.1 profile Jul 02 20:14:34 Kugelfang ah, profiles: Jul 02 20:15:09 Kugelfang i think i'm messing up with blubb's items, but i'd like to speak of our default useflags right now Jul 02 20:15:33 blubb heh, they're not mines Jul 02 20:15:38 Kugelfang :-) Jul 02 20:15:45 Kugelfang i mean the items for the meeting Jul 02 20:15:50 blubb yeah, i know Jul 02 20:16:10 blubb Kugelfang: what do you want to change? Jul 02 20:16:23 Kugelfang is there yet any tool to check cascaded profiles on redundancy ? Jul 02 20:16:36 eradicator i don't believe so Jul 02 20:16:38 * blubb thinks they're quite okay Jul 02 20:16:44 Kugelfang i don't think so Jul 02 20:17:15 Kugelfang especially the useflags are redundant among the levels: default-linux, amd64 and 2005.1 Jul 02 20:17:31 Kugelfang at least that was my first impression when i recently looked at them Jul 02 20:17:42 KingTaco I'd like us to get away from desktop flags Jul 02 20:17:51 eradicator i agree Jul 02 20:17:53 Kugelfang KingTaco: that's another thing: Jul 02 20:17:54 KingTaco provide a more neutral set of flags Jul 02 20:18:05 Kugelfang what about introducing something like: Jul 02 20:18:12 Kugelfang DESKTOP_USE="..." Jul 02 20:18:17 Kugelfang SERVER_USE="..." Jul 02 20:18:24 KingTaco ah Jul 02 20:18:27 Kugelfang as an intermediate solution until use groups Jul 02 20:18:28 KingTaco I see where you're going Jul 02 20:18:39 KingTaco there is a GLEP on grouping use flags Jul 02 20:18:42 Kugelfang in make.conf, you can easily do: USE="${DESKTOP_USE} ..." Jul 02 20:18:43 blubb Kugelfang: you mean GLEP 29? Jul 02 20:18:47 KingTaco I don't kow it's status though Jul 02 20:18:51 Kugelfang blubb: right Jul 02 20:18:58 blubb it's dead imho, like most GLEPs Jul 02 20:19:00 blubb glep-- Jul 02 20:19:07 Kugelfang blubb-- glep++ Jul 02 20:19:13 Kugelfang let's revive it... Jul 02 20:19:17 KingTaco ok Jul 02 20:19:38 KingTaco anyone against that? Jul 02 20:20:03 Kugelfang nope Jul 02 20:20:03 blubb i don't bother. i think everybody should be able to customize his use flags for his needs Jul 02 20:20:18 KingTaco blubb, this is for defaults Jul 02 20:20:19 blubb i don't need it, but it's probably a nice idea Jul 02 20:20:43 Kugelfang okay, i got 7 minutes till i have to go Jul 02 20:20:48 KingTaco ok, who is going to spearhead the reincarnation of GLEP29 Jul 02 20:20:55 Kugelfang have i forgotten to mention anything important? :_) Jul 02 20:21:10 KingTaco don't everyone speak up at the same time.... Jul 02 20:21:11 Kugelfang KingTaco: always the one who asks :-) Jul 02 20:21:16 blubb KingTaco: :P Jul 02 20:21:21 KingTaco hah Jul 02 20:21:35 KingTaco ok, I can make it happen, but not for 2005.1 Jul 02 20:21:57 Kugelfang KingTaco: right... i'll try to thin out 2005.1 useflags a bit Jul 02 20:22:09 Kugelfang KingTaco: but, just as an information: GRP currently _needs_ USE=X Jul 02 20:22:14 * hparker ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) has joined #gentoo-amd64-dev Jul 02 20:22:14 * ChanServ gives channel operator status to hparker Jul 02 20:22:26 blubb hi hparker Jul 02 20:22:51 hparker lo blubb, everyone Jul 02 20:23:48 KingTaco Kugelfang, arn't there specific GRP useflags? Jul 02 20:23:59 Kugelfang KingTaco: jupp, there are Jul 02 20:24:07 Kugelfang GRP_STAGE23_USE Jul 02 20:24:08 KingTaco problem solved Jul 02 20:24:18 Kugelfang heh, no problem, just a FYI :_) Jul 02 20:24:35 KingTaco ok, moving on... Jul 02 20:24:41 KingTaco Kugelfang, anything else? Jul 02 20:24:47 Kugelfang nothing from my side Jul 02 20:24:56 KingTaco ok, blubb: next topic Jul 02 20:24:56 Kugelfang if i forgot anything then it wasn't important Jul 02 20:25:05 jeeves http://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=97748 [EMAIL PROTECTED]>[EMAIL PROTECTED], When unmaximizing any maximized window in kde i get an info box saying: Unmaximize Jul 02 20:25:11 KingTaco hparker, btw, I have some treats for you Jul 02 20:25:26 blubb ok, let's talk about 2004.3 first Jul 02 20:25:31 KingTaco ok Jul 02 20:25:45 hparker KingTaco: Cool, I haven't eaten yet today ;) Jul 02 20:25:52 blubb probably most of you already got it, eradicator has a new upgrade script Jul 02 20:26:25 blubb i tested it and it still fails for some strange reasons Jul 02 20:26:38 blubb i could need some help with testing Jul 02 20:26:48 eradicator what stage does it die in? Jul 02 20:27:12 blubb eradicator: it doesn't die at all, that's the biggest problem ;) Jul 02 20:27:17 eradicator oh hmm Jul 02 20:27:25 blubb eradicator: but it'd probably be stage3 Jul 02 20:27:46 blubb well, i try to keep a current version on amd64.g.o, just have a look at cvs Jul 02 20:27:53 blubb s/current/recent Jul 02 20:27:59 Kugelfang KingTaco: sorry to interrrupt: http://dev.gentoo.org/~nigoro/ppc64/make-ppc64.conf Jul 02 20:28:26 KingTaco Kugelfang, ok Jul 02 20:28:27 Herbs blubb: the error is the "cannot compute size of long double.." issue? Jul 02 20:28:39 blubb Herbs: that's one, yes Jul 02 20:28:55 dang That's a fun error. Jul 02 20:29:05 dang I've never seen it be the same problem twice. Jul 02 20:29:14 Kugelfang okay dudes, /me has to go now... sorry :-( Jul 02 20:29:22 blubb cu Kugelfang Jul 02 20:29:29 KingTaco l8r Jul 02 20:29:31 Herbs cu Kugelfang Jul 02 20:29:33 eradicator that's generally because it doesn't have a multilib sandbox installed Jul 02 20:29:43 blubb anyway, i'd like to deprecate 2004.3 as soon as possible Jul 02 20:29:53 Herbs agreed Jul 02 20:29:53 eradicator not until the script is tested well... Jul 02 20:29:58 dang eradicator: The error definitely predates a separate sandbox. Jul 02 20:30:06 eradicator yes, it does Jul 02 20:30:10 KingTaco blubb, I don't agree Jul 02 20:30:14 Herbs current baselayout has issues with 2004.3 Jul 02 20:30:16 dang That's the first test that fails because of lack of running binaries. Jul 02 20:30:20 blubb KingTaco: why not? Jul 02 20:30:27 KingTaco I think we should stager the deprecation and release dates Jul 02 20:30:29 Herbs it does not create lib lib64 symlinks Jul 02 20:30:35 blubb eradicator: well, that's included in "as soon as possible" Jul 02 20:30:37 KingTaco it will help spread out the bugs that we are going to get Jul 02 20:30:51 KingTaco if only by a couple of weeks Jul 02 20:31:33 blubb KingTaco: yeah, but we need a working upgrade script before 2005.1 is released Jul 02 20:31:42 blubb otherwise, #g-amd64 will be like hell again Jul 02 20:31:49 KingTaco blubb, what does that have to do with 2004.3 being deprecated? Jul 02 20:32:06 * KristinG ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) has joined #gentoo-amd64-dev Jul 02 20:32:06 * ChanServ gives voice to KristinG Jul 02 20:32:26 * KristinG ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) has left #gentoo-amd64-dev ("Leaving") Jul 02 20:32:38 blubb KingTaco: nothing to be honest, but i fear a little detail may be different from 2005.0 and many users will fail again upgrading Jul 02 20:33:41 blubb i still don't like the current way of upgrading, although i don't know a real alternative, since eradicator pointed out that binpkg may screw up everything as well Jul 02 20:33:45 KingTaco blubb, I think we have a misunderstanding, I only think we should stager 2004.3 dep from 2005.1 release by a couple of weeks;we still need a working script Jul 02 20:34:30 blubb KingTaco: nono, i got you right, just wanted to mention it Jul 02 20:34:36 KingTaco oh, ok Jul 02 20:34:41 KingTaco ]anywho Jul 02 20:34:46 KingTaco back on topic Jul 02 20:35:48 blubb next item? Jul 02 20:35:51 KingTaco sure Jul 02 20:35:58 eradicator also... the older deprecated profiles can now be removed since yesterday was the date we listed for their removal Jul 02 20:35:58 KingTaco anyone? Jul 02 20:36:09 blubb eradicator: i already rm'd them Jul 02 20:36:13 eradicator ok Jul 02 20:36:32 blubb 2005-07-01 21:00 ;) Jul 02 20:37:27 KingTaco next topic? Jul 02 20:37:29 blubb ok, next item: our boxes Jul 02 20:37:40 KingTaco thats me, right? Jul 02 20:37:45 blubb KingTaco: yep Jul 02 20:38:07 KingTaco ok, pitr is online Jul 02 20:38:19 KingTaco dustpuppy is at MSI being RMAed Jul 02 20:38:36 plasmaroo KingTaco: Any news from them? Jul 02 20:38:41 plasmaroo Other than the RMA number :) Jul 02 20:38:45 blubb heh Jul 02 20:38:48 KingTaco plasmaroo, "In Processing" Jul 02 20:38:52 plasmaroo Heh.\ Jul 02 20:38:58 Herbs what's dustpuppy going to be used for? similar to pitr? Jul 02 20:39:03 KingTaco no Jul 02 20:39:04 plasmaroo Compile power Jul 02 20:39:05 dang distcc Jul 02 20:39:07 KingTaco distcc Jul 02 20:39:16 KingTaco and testing experemntal kernels Jul 02 20:39:20 KingTaco and patches Jul 02 20:39:35 plasmaroo KingTaco: The latter might be a problem without a BMC... :/ Jul 02 20:39:37 blubb it's only connected to the intern gigE-switch, iirc Jul 02 20:39:37 KingTaco dustpuppy is discless, so it's pretty hard to screw it up Jul 02 20:39:52 dang netboot Jul 02 20:40:02 KingTaco plasmaroo, I'm going to have them hook up a serial cable Jul 02 20:40:24 KingTaco but it's main job is to distcc Jul 02 20:40:45 KingTaco so, now about access to external developers Jul 02 20:40:54 KingTaco heres how I think it should go Jul 02 20:41:07 KingTaco 1. only recognized upstream developers Jul 02 20:41:45 KingTaco this means that 1) the package must be listed in portage and 2) we must be able to verify that the developer is upstream Jul 02 20:42:00 KingTaco 2. no chroot Jul 02 20:42:29 KingTaco only shell access, nd quotas/limits are put in place to help preserve resources for gentoo Jul 02 20:42:46 KingTaco 3. an expiration on the account Jul 02 20:43:06 KingTaco upstream devs are only granted access to the box for a specified time Jul 02 20:43:28 KingTaco blubb, am I missing anything? Jul 02 20:43:33 KingTaco comments? Jul 02 20:43:36 blubb don't think so Jul 02 20:43:40 Herbs sounds good to me Jul 02 20:43:46 Herbs AT access? Jul 02 20:43:50 KingTaco yeah Jul 02 20:44:09 KingTaco ATs can be easily added w/o chroot Jul 02 20:44:19 KingTaco comments on giving chroot? Jul 02 20:44:24 KingTaco or ATs in general Jul 02 20:44:44 KingTaco com'on, don't everyone speak at once... Jul 02 20:44:49 blubb i don't think we need one Jul 02 20:44:54 Herbs heh, all sounds fine to me Jul 02 20:44:57 blubb since we all have our own amd64 boxes Jul 02 20:45:09 KingTaco s/we/ATs? Jul 02 20:45:09 blubb pitr is pretty heavy-loaded sometimes Jul 02 20:45:17 blubb KingTaco: devs+ats in general Jul 02 20:45:23 dang If they don't get chroot, then it only gives them access to stages. Jul 02 20:45:26 KingTaco blubb, it's to get access to prerelease stages Jul 02 20:45:28 blubb KingTaco: amd64 devs i mean Jul 02 20:45:40 hparker Works for me Jul 02 20:45:45 blubb KingTaco: yes, i know. i was talking about chroots, not access, sorry Jul 02 20:45:46 Astinus weeeeeeeeee Jul 02 20:45:51 KingTaco oh yeah Jul 02 20:45:54 KingTaco ok Jul 02 20:45:55 Herbs I just mentioned it as the test stages and release media will be on there so it would be good to give AT's access to them Jul 02 20:46:00 * Astinus arrives with a bang, crash and EM64T-driven wallop. Jul 02 20:46:11 blubb pitr lately had load average of 8 and higher :/ Jul 02 20:46:16 blubb it's quite popular Jul 02 20:46:17 KingTaco so AT's == upstream here? Jul 02 20:46:29 dang No expiration. Jul 02 20:46:30 dang ? Jul 02 20:46:32 KingTaco blubb, thats a good thing Jul 02 20:46:38 blubb yeah, no expiration Jul 02 20:46:46 KingTaco ok Jul 02 20:47:26 KingTaco plasmaroo, wanna say anything about poiseden? Jul 02 20:47:42 plasmaroo KingTaco: No, Chris is working on toughening it up Jul 02 20:47:54 KingTaco ok Jul 02 20:48:14 KingTaco allright, any questions? Jul 02 20:48:19 KingTaco anything I forget? Jul 02 20:48:41 blubb KingTaco: somebody asked me if he may use distcc lately Jul 02 20:48:56 blubb i think they're expected to, right? Jul 02 20:49:09 KingTaco blubb, well, our only other distcc box atm is the releng box Jul 02 20:49:21 KingTaco and given it's releng time, I would say no Jul 02 20:49:44 KingTaco when we get dustpuppy online, we can do it Jul 02 20:49:46 blubb ok, but when we get dustpuppy up? Jul 02 20:49:49 blubb ah :) Jul 02 20:49:55 plasmaroo As soon as MSI hurries the hell up :) Jul 02 20:49:58 KingTaco I'll create a script to setup the chroot to do that Jul 02 20:50:23 KingTaco plasmaroo, I'm hoping next week Jul 02 20:50:28 plasmaroo Aye. Jul 02 20:50:35 * Astinus has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) Jul 02 20:50:40 * Windpaw ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) has joined #gentoo-amd64-dev Jul 02 20:50:41 * ChanServ gives channel operator status to Windpaw Jul 02 20:50:47 KingTaco ok, so I'll send out announcements about the new access to amd64 boxen Jul 02 20:51:10 KingTaco anything else about pitr? Jul 02 20:51:39 KingTaco ... Jul 02 20:51:39 blubb what about the chroot() stuff? Jul 02 20:51:43 KingTaco oh Jul 02 20:51:59 KingTaco blubb, the stuff I'm working on, or whats in place now? Jul 02 20:52:04 * Windpaw is now known as Astinus Jul 02 20:52:09 blubb KingTaco: both :P Jul 02 20:52:38 KingTaco well, I'm trying to find a "safe" chroot similar to BSDs jail() call Jul 02 20:53:05 KingTaco when/if that gets figured out, giving chroot to upstream might be more feasable Jul 02 20:53:30 KingTaco right now though Jul 02 20:53:33 blubb i still don't think it's necessary Jul 02 20:53:41 KingTaco blubb, it may not be Jul 02 20:53:57 KingTaco blubb, they would have to prove it nesessary Jul 02 20:54:06 blubb yep Jul 02 20:54:24 KingTaco for the moment though Jul 02 20:54:39 KingTaco chroots go in your home directory Jul 02 20:55:04 KingTaco and, you must bind mount 2 directories(unless you have good reason not to do so): Jul 02 20:55:30 KingTaco * Give a hoot, don't pollute! Unless you have a specific reason not to do Jul 02 20:55:30 KingTaco so, please bind mount /usr/portage into your chroot by doing the following: Jul 02 20:55:30 KingTaco sudo mount /usr/portage /path/to/chroot/usr/portage -o bind,ro Jul 02 20:55:30 KingTaco *** We have moved distfiles to /usr/portage-distfiles, please also bind Jul 02 20:55:30 KingTaco mount it. *** Jul 02 20:55:51 KingTaco you can bind mount /usr/portage-distfiles rw(you have to.....) Jul 02 20:56:22 blubb bind-mounting /dev /sys and /proc might be a good idea, too. ;) Jul 02 20:56:28 KingTaco the tree gets synced once a day Jul 02 20:56:36 KingTaco blubb, /sys is usualy unnessesary Jul 02 20:56:48 KingTaco proc is needed, but doesn't take up any ram Jul 02 20:56:52 blubb not if you want to reboot the box *running* Jul 02 20:57:09 KingTaco and dev I think the stages provide Jul 02 20:57:17 KingTaco not that you couldn't mount it if needed Jul 02 20:57:53 KingTaco you could also bind mount [/var]/tmp Jul 02 20:57:58 * Astinus has quit ("Gotta run, places to be and people to see!") Jul 02 20:58:13 * Astinus ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) has joined #gentoo-amd64-dev Jul 02 20:58:14 * ChanServ gives channel operator status to Astinus Jul 02 20:58:17 KingTaco ok, anything else? Jul 02 20:58:43 KingTaco ... Jul 02 20:58:49 KingTaco blubb, next topic Jul 02 20:58:54 blubb okay Jul 02 20:59:02 blubb QA regarding old bugs Jul 02 20:59:02 KingTaco danke Jul 02 20:59:12 KingTaco who is that? Jul 02 20:59:16 * blubb <-- Jul 02 20:59:22 KingTaco *nod* Jul 02 20:59:54 blubb i recently saw that nearly a quarter of our bugs were not touched for over a month Jul 02 21:00:17 blubb i trimmed it down to 21, but i'm pretty sure the number will increase again Jul 02 21:00:29 dang I looked at some of them, and many of them are not things we can really work on. Jul 02 21:01:04 blubb i know Jul 02 21:01:07 eradicator then CANTFIX them Jul 02 21:01:20 blubb eradicator: it's more that we're waiting for other heards Jul 02 21:01:22 blubb grml Jul 02 21:01:25 blubb s/heards/herds Jul 02 21:01:27 eradicator ah Jul 02 21:01:32 eradicator reassign them, then Jul 02 21:01:34 dang Or access to appropriate hardware. Jul 02 21:01:50 blubb anyway, just a friendly reminder to check old bugs from time to time :) Jul 02 21:01:53 dang "Driver foo works." "But no one has foo" Jul 02 21:02:15 blubb i've made a query which lists bugs older than 30 days: http://tinyurl.com/7nrbg Jul 02 21:02:25 blubb where old = nobody touched it Jul 02 21:02:29 dang Or wxhaskell. How am I supposed to debug haskell problems? Jul 02 21:03:05 hparker dang: At that point, we mark them testing, and trust our users.. Just did it to nwn-ded.. I could start the server, but didn't have the game to test it Jul 02 21:03:24 blubb hparker: ack Jul 02 21:03:35 hparker ? Jul 02 21:04:02 blubb hparker: just mark it is fine then Jul 02 21:04:23 blubb it's still better than a dead bug and a frustrated user who thinks we didn't even notice him Jul 02 21:04:52 hparker testing == ~ not TESTED ;) Jul 02 21:05:06 blubb heh Jul 02 21:05:41 blubb well, that's all from my side Jul 02 21:05:45 blubb next item? Jul 02 21:06:21 blubb ... Jul 02 21:07:04 blubb "Find alternatives for meetings" Jul 02 21:07:23 blubb i'm really curious what the solution is on this :) Jul 02 21:07:31 eradicator ? Jul 02 21:07:33 dang What's wrong with our current meetings? Jul 02 21:08:07 KingTaco back up for a second Jul 02 21:08:08 blubb they're only once a month, they're long, it's hard to have the majority of the team beeing present... Jul 02 21:08:15 KingTaco http://tinyurl.com/d4ysu Jul 02 21:08:29 KingTaco thats a bugs report of every bug that hasn't been touched in a month Jul 02 21:09:03 blubb um, how do you get 95? Jul 02 21:09:10 eradicator yeah, but i don't think there's a good alternative Jul 02 21:09:19 KingTaco blubb, thats the report... Jul 02 21:09:34 KingTaco blubb, it may be incorrect Jul 02 21:09:35 dang I see 154... Jul 02 21:09:59 dang Oh. Jul 02 21:10:27 blubb KingTaco: that's a list of bugs which were opened for over a month Jul 02 21:10:44 KingTaco blubb, yeah, I guess so Jul 02 21:10:45 blubb s/for//, a month ago Jul 02 21:10:48 KingTaco ok, lemme try again Jul 02 21:12:14 KingTaco here we go Jul 02 21:12:16 KingTaco 41 Jul 02 21:12:18 KingTaco http://tinyurl.com/a7ae3 Jul 02 21:12:26 dang I see 43 Jul 02 21:12:49 KingTaco Total 41 Jul 02 21:12:57 blubb it should be 20 Jul 02 21:13:08 dang I just sorted by last-changed-date Jul 02 21:13:18 KingTaco blubb, edit the report then Jul 02 21:13:22 KingTaco see what I missed Jul 02 21:13:34 dang Not all of mine are actually assigned to us, tho. Jul 02 21:13:50 KingTaco no Jul 02 21:13:50 dang All are CC'd to us, at least, tho. Jul 02 21:13:55 KingTaco if we are in cc as well Jul 02 21:14:01 blubb ah, yes, i didn't count the ones where we are cc'ed Jul 02 21:14:20 blubb because most of them aren't really for us, but we want to be noticed when they're fixed Jul 02 21:14:50 * KingTaco has changed the topic to: Prerelease stages in pitr:/releases/2005.1 DO NOT DISTRUBUTE | Please test gentoo-sources-2.6.12-r2 | http://uberslacks.com/gentoo/amd64/ is down, see plasmaroo for mirror | Next Meeting: NOW | bugs that need lovin': http://tinyurl.com/a7ae3 Jul 02 21:15:10 blubb :) Jul 02 21:15:27 KingTaco ok, back to the topic at hand Jul 02 21:15:39 KingTaco meetings was it? Jul 02 21:15:42 blubb yep Jul 02 21:16:09 LizB^2 uh huh Jul 02 21:16:13 KingTaco so anyone have an idea as to how to make our meetings less painful? Jul 02 21:16:32 blubb we could either make them more frequently, or abandon them Jul 02 21:16:35 dang I've only been in on two, but they were fine for me. Jul 02 21:16:50 KingTaco I don't think we should kill them Jul 02 21:16:50 blubb and use something different as replacement Jul 02 21:16:55 KingTaco oh Jul 02 21:17:00 hparker More frequently would shorten them Jul 02 21:17:02 KingTaco well, you didn't say that........ Jul 02 21:17:17 KingTaco what about subproject meetings? Jul 02 21:17:24 blubb personally, i like mailing lists Jul 02 21:17:25 dang Do we have subprojects? Jul 02 21:17:31 KingTaco sure Jul 02 21:17:37 KingTaco and we can create more Jul 02 21:18:00 blubb there, everybody (not just the ones present) could read and push their ideas in Jul 02 21:18:19 KingTaco blubb, problem is, it takes weeks to get the simplest thing done..... Jul 02 21:18:20 LizB^2 hmmn Jul 02 21:18:26 KingTaco otherwise ppl can't get their ideas in Jul 02 21:18:45 blubb KingTaco: currently, it takes a month to get the simplest thing done :P Jul 02 21:18:55 blubb KingTaco: because we only have 1 meeting per month Jul 02 21:19:11 KingTaco semi-monthly Jul 02 21:19:21 blubb with ml, we could discuss the problem when it is new Jul 02 21:19:47 blubb also, we don't have the problem of time zones Jul 02 21:20:10 KingTaco we could start using the ML more often and keep the meetings Jul 02 21:20:21 blubb that'd be even better Jul 02 21:20:22 KingTaco the meetings would be shorter Jul 02 21:20:23 dang What's wrong with both? Jul 02 21:20:32 blubb dang? Jul 02 21:20:53 dang Discuss on ML, keep meetings for important/contraversial decisions. Jul 02 21:21:31 MetalGODin create a new -dev ml Jul 02 21:21:34 blubb i'm fine with that Jul 02 21:21:47 dang MetalGODin: We have one. It's amd64@ Jul 02 21:21:52 blubb currently, [EMAIL PROTECTED] is just a place for bugspam and announcements Jul 02 21:22:07 hparker s/bug// Jul 02 21:22:09 blubb i don't think we need another adress for it Jul 02 21:22:09 dang Right, but it's a mailing address that goes to all devs and ATs. :) Jul 02 21:22:20 blubb hparker: yeah :( Jul 02 21:22:26 KingTaco dang whats wrong with that? Jul 02 21:22:27 MetalGODin amd64-dev for example Jul 02 21:22:42 dang KingTaco: Nothing. I was proposing we use it, rather than create a new list. Jul 02 21:22:51 KingTaco hehe Jul 02 21:22:52 KingTaco ok Jul 02 21:23:47 KingTaco ok, any objections? Jul 02 21:23:49 blubb solar: keep the meetings, but move traffic to ml Jul 02 21:23:56 blubb doh, f*ing xchat Jul 02 21:24:08 blubb so : keep the meetings, but move traffic to ml Jul 02 21:24:20 KingTaco yeah Jul 02 21:24:33 KingTaco try to keep meetings under 30 minutes Jul 02 21:24:42 blubb uh, that's hard :P Jul 02 21:25:00 KingTaco grrr Jul 02 21:25:03 blubb (hint: we're now talking for 1:30 and there are still 2 topics) Jul 02 21:25:03 KingTaco damn cat Jul 02 21:25:38 KingTaco ok Jul 02 21:25:43 blubb next? Jul 02 21:25:46 dang blubb: Yeah, but a lot of this (2005.1 for example) could have been done on ML. Jul 02 21:25:46 KingTaco yup Jul 02 21:25:56 blubb dang: full ack Jul 02 21:26:04 blubb "status of amd64 donations" Jul 02 21:26:21 blubb Kugelfang proposed this item, i don't know what to say about it :P Jul 02 21:26:30 KingTaco no, I did Jul 02 21:26:34 blubb oh, sorry Jul 02 21:26:42 * blubb always mixes up the names Jul 02 21:26:50 KingTaco ok, so we have $100.47 left in our funds Jul 02 21:27:14 hparker Party at KingTaco's tonight! Jul 02 21:27:27 KingTaco I want to hold onto it for a bit until we get the nvidia box incase we have to purchase something, but baring that, what should we do with it? Jul 02 21:27:29 dang Well, dual-core athlon FX is only $1299... Jul 02 21:27:29 blubb hparker: lol Jul 02 21:27:39 KingTaco party sounds like a fine idea Jul 02 21:27:42 * Tester_ ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) has joined #gentoo-amd64-dev Jul 02 21:27:42 * ChanServ gives voice to Tester_ Jul 02 21:27:45 KingTaco :) Jul 02 21:27:52 dang mmmm.... Beeeer.... Jul 02 21:27:58 * KingTaco gives channel operator status to Tester_ Jul 02 21:28:01 blubb KingTaco: i think that's up to the ones who donated the money Jul 02 21:28:10 KingTaco blubb, we did Jul 02 21:28:15 * blubb not :/ Jul 02 21:28:21 KingTaco no? Jul 02 21:28:23 blubb no Jul 02 21:28:24 KingTaco oh Jul 02 21:28:25 blubb no $$$ Jul 02 21:28:31 KingTaco well then you don't count Jul 02 21:28:33 KingTaco :p Jul 02 21:28:34 Tester_ hmm.. I missed the meeting right ;) Jul 02 21:28:35 blubb heh Jul 02 21:28:47 KingTaco Tester_, at the end atm Jul 02 21:28:51 Tester_ ok Jul 02 21:29:04 KingTaco so, we could possibly buy another drive for pitr Jul 02 21:29:07 hparker That's ok, we can hash it out on the ml ;) Jul 02 21:29:16 dang Tester_: Nothing important. We just voted to drop amd64 and join ppc. Jul 02 21:29:24 blubb lol Jul 02 21:29:32 hparker KingTaco: I agree, hold onto it till all the boxes are running, and go from there Jul 02 21:29:45 KingTaco ok, but start thinking about what you want to do with it Jul 02 21:29:50 KingTaco next item Jul 02 21:29:56 Tester_ dang: oh great.. Jul 02 21:30:02 blubb "#gentoo-amd64 cleanup" Jul 02 21:30:15 KingTaco ah, me again Jul 02 21:30:20 dang Do we have an acceptable use doc yet? Jul 02 21:30:33 KingTaco dang, working on getting one from infra Jul 02 21:30:38 dang 'k Jul 02 21:30:40 KingTaco supposedly one exists.... Jul 02 21:30:59 dang It'd be nice if we had a consistent doc to point ot. Jul 02 21:31:01 dang er to. Jul 02 21:31:10 KingTaco workin on it Jul 02 21:31:37 KingTaco ok, so I want to increase developer presence in #-amd64 and the amd64 forums Jul 02 21:31:52 blubb uuuh, the forums Jul 02 21:31:53 KingTaco also, I want to clean up the slum that #-amd64 has become Jul 02 21:31:56 dang Following the forums is a full time job. :( Jul 02 21:31:57 blubb you don't get me there :P Jul 02 21:32:17 KingTaco I said increase, not everyone has to do it Jul 02 21:32:31 KingTaco so, about #-amd64 Jul 02 21:32:38 dang I drop into #-amd64 whenever I can, but I'm hesitant to kick people without the doc. Jul 02 21:32:55 KingTaco we have deathstar, and with him comes the ability to have mods Jul 02 21:33:10 KingTaco mods can /kick and +q users Jul 02 21:33:18 * Tester_ is always in -amd64 Jul 02 21:33:23 KingTaco I think ATs should be mods Jul 02 21:33:28 KingTaco but more to the point Jul 02 21:33:48 KingTaco that channel is the "official" representation of us on irc Jul 02 21:33:51 KingTaco and I'm ashamed Jul 02 21:34:04 blubb #gentoo-ricers, heh Jul 02 21:34:07 KingTaco it's a cess pool of filth Jul 02 21:34:13 KingTaco so lets try to clean it up Jul 02 21:34:26 Tester_ do you want to make it into a specialised #gentoo ? Jul 02 21:34:30 KingTaco everything that goes on in there should be related to amd64 development Jul 02 21:34:35 KingTaco Tester_, hell no Jul 02 21:34:41 KingTaco it's becomeing that Jul 02 21:34:50 KingTaco I want to stop it from happening Jul 02 21:35:02 hparker So, no off topic discussions at all? Jul 02 21:35:04 Tester_ shouldnt it be about helping amd64 users ? Jul 02 21:35:40 blubb KingTaco: i agree, but i see a few problems: Jul 02 21:35:59 blubb 1. sometimes it's hard for users to know whether their problems are amd64-specific or not Jul 02 21:36:00 KingTaco hparker, thats what we are going to decide Jul 02 21:36:24 Tester_ I think we should accept any gentoo related question for ppl running on amd64 Jul 02 21:36:49 KingTaco I think we may also want to adopt the "clean language" rules in there Jul 02 21:37:00 blubb Tester_: the problem is, it's too big Jul 02 21:37:05 KingTaco again, it's what outsider see when they look at amd64 Jul 02 21:37:07 Tester_ blubb: is it ? Jul 02 21:37:13 blubb Tester_: following #g-amd64 is hard Jul 02 21:37:19 Tester_ we have here for pure development Jul 02 21:37:25 blubb Tester_: it's the primary reason we have this channel Jul 02 21:37:43 blubb Tester_: yeah, but how many devs do read #g-amd64? Jul 02 21:37:52 blubb i read it sometimes, but most of the time, i just idle Jul 02 21:38:06 blubb so users are "alone" if they have a problem Jul 02 21:38:24 dang When I'm there, I try and read. Jul 02 21:38:24 Tester_ I read it "often" Jul 02 21:38:36 blubb the relationship between users and devs could be better Jul 02 21:38:47 blubb imho Jul 02 21:38:50 KingTaco plasmaroo, can you rig DeathStar to be more like genbot in #gentoo for #-amd64? Jul 02 21:39:10 KingTaco the S/N ratio is way to low Jul 02 21:39:19 blubb S/N? Jul 02 21:39:21 hparker I try to help when I can.. And come recruit help when I can't Jul 02 21:39:27 KingTaco signal/noise Jul 02 21:39:33 blubb ah Jul 02 21:39:34 hparker Just not sure about banning all off topic discussions Jul 02 21:39:41 KingTaco and thats what drove us away in the first place Jul 02 21:40:07 KingTaco hparker, it's not about banning all off topic discussion Jul 02 21:40:21 KingTaco it's about making it a nice enough place so that we actually want to be in there Jul 02 21:40:42 blubb heh, that's hard Jul 02 21:40:43 * LizB^2 has quit ("This computer has gone to sleep") Jul 02 21:40:48 KingTaco no doubt Jul 02 21:40:50 dang KingTaco: For me it's not S/N, it's pure volume. Jul 02 21:40:56 KingTaco but I think we need to do it Jul 02 21:41:07 KingTaco dang, cut down the noise and the volume is lower Jul 02 21:41:08 dang I don't mind being in there at all, but there's too much of it for me to follow when I'm at work. Jul 02 21:41:11 Tester_ dang: volume comes from succes Jul 02 21:41:26 * MacGrrl ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) has joined #gentoo-amd64-dev Jul 02 21:41:34 KingTaco so, I'm open to ideas on how to cut down the noise Jul 02 21:42:01 Tester_ we can randomly kick some users ? Jul 02 21:42:04 KingTaco ok Jul 02 21:42:05 blubb lol Jul 02 21:42:16 blubb we could make it invite-only ;) Jul 02 21:42:34 KingTaco I think if we had genbot/deathstar on patrol, that would help a lot Jul 02 21:42:42 blubb sorry, i don't know a serious way to reduce volume and keep everybody happy Jul 02 21:42:50 dang KingTaco: I haven't noticed a language problem in there. Jul 02 21:43:09 KingTaco dang, I could quote from last night Jul 02 21:43:16 hparker Every now and then.. Like last night Jul 02 21:43:19 KingTaco every other word was "fuck" Jul 02 21:43:25 hparker But, it's not often Jul 02 21:43:34 hparker At least from what I've seen Jul 02 21:43:37 KingTaco so lets stick genbot in there to clean up the language Jul 02 21:43:50 blubb biggest problem to me is all the generic gentoo stuff Jul 02 21:44:12 blubb i'm not interested in a random java app just because it's in portage Jul 02 21:44:17 Tester_ do we really want to forbit that ? Jul 02 21:44:26 KingTaco what? swearing? Jul 02 21:44:33 dang No, generic gentoo stuff. Jul 02 21:44:37 KingTaco oh Jul 02 21:44:44 blubb Tester_: no, i know that wouldn't be good, but it should be reduced Jul 02 21:44:49 dang A lot of people come in installing gentoo for the first time on an amd64, so they come here. Jul 02 21:44:57 KingTaco only if it pertains to amd64 Jul 02 21:45:07 dang It doesn't, but they're running amd64 Jul 02 21:45:13 KingTaco i have a suspicion that we are getting users from #gentoo Jul 02 21:45:36 Tester_ you think #gentoo is refering users ? Jul 02 21:45:36 blubb KingTaco: sure we are. #gentoo is terrible Jul 02 21:45:44 blubb you can't read it with just 2 eyes Jul 02 21:45:47 dang I think #gentoo is *way* too full. Jul 02 21:46:32 hparker dang: Agreed Jul 02 21:46:33 blubb yeah, and in near future, the same will happen to #g-amd64 :( Jul 02 21:46:53 dang We're too successful. Jul 02 21:47:00 KingTaco amd64 is an explosion Jul 02 21:47:02 blubb heh Jul 02 21:47:07 dang I'm not sure there's any solution, tho. Jul 02 21:47:17 KingTaco we have to prepare ourselves for massive influx of users Jul 02 21:47:17 dang People are going to come in and ask questions. Jul 02 21:47:39 hparker #g-a-beginner, #g-a-install, #g-a-advanced Jul 02 21:47:50 KingTaco so, lets get genbot to patrol, and take it up at the next meeting Jul 02 21:47:57 blubb KingTaco: if i wanted to read #g-amd64 all the time, i wouldn't be able to read my mails anymore :( Jul 02 21:47:59 dang hparker: And which one will you watch? Jul 02 21:48:16 KingTaco hparker, not so good, I don't want 4 more channels to watch Jul 02 21:48:16 blubb dang: heh, good question Jul 02 21:48:27 KingTaco and maintain Jul 02 21:48:28 hparker dang: heh.. Uh.. Yea, that could be a problem Jul 02 21:48:38 blubb what about #g-a-speed? Jul 02 21:48:45 blubb then i'd read #g-a again Jul 02 21:48:51 hparker lol Jul 02 21:48:53 KingTaco so, resolved: get genbot to help out and see where that gets up Jul 02 21:48:55 dang blubb: Kick ricers. Jul 02 21:48:57 KingTaco s/up/us Jul 02 21:49:13 blubb KingTaco: i don't think it will really cut down traffic Jul 02 21:49:15 allanw genbot would only kick spammers/cursers.. i dont see how that would help Jul 02 21:49:15 KingTaco #-amd64-ricer if at all Jul 02 21:49:20 KingTaco blubb, you may be right Jul 02 21:49:24 blubb KingTaco: it may help, but it wont be enough Jul 02 21:49:42 KingTaco but we can take it up at a later date Jul 02 21:49:45 KingTaco on the ML Jul 02 21:49:49 blubb heh Jul 02 21:49:59 KingTaco we don't have any solutions then Jul 02 21:50:02 KingTaco s/then/now Jul 02 21:50:19 KingTaco blubb, any more topics? Jul 02 21:50:22 dang I'm not sure there *are* any. There aren't enough of us to help all the potential amd64 users. Jul 02 21:50:34 KingTaco dang, users help users Jul 02 21:50:48 blubb KingTaco: yes: "Anything not mentioned above" Jul 02 21:51:03 KingTaco ok, general discussion time Jul 02 21:51:09 KingTaco anyobne got anything? Jul 02 21:51:09 Tester_ maybe we could ask the ml ? Jul 02 21:51:28 KingTaco Tester_, you mean the general ml? Jul 02 21:52:07 Tester_ yep Jul 02 21:52:12 KingTaco hrm Jul 02 21:52:13 dang x86 just pushed out experimental 2005.1 Jul 02 21:52:16 dang Should we? Jul 02 21:52:24 KingTaco I don't know that we would get any response Jul 02 21:52:32 KingTaco dang, thats up to kugelfang Jul 02 21:52:41 dang 'k, I guess we wait then. Jul 02 21:52:41 KingTaco plus it's not ready yet Jul 02 21:53:52 dang Yay! Gnome-python-extras, finally! Jul 02 21:53:54 KingTaco Tester_, but we can try Jul 02 21:54:32 Tester_ if we dont have any good idea Jul 02 21:54:41 KingTaco sure Jul 02 21:54:45 KingTaco it won't hurt Jul 02 21:54:51 KingTaco will you take care of that? Jul 02 21:56:02 plasmaroo KingTaco: Eh? Jul 02 21:56:07 Tester_ I can Jul 02 21:56:22 KingTaco plasmaroo, can you make DeathStar patrol #-amd64 like genbot does in #gentoo Jul 02 21:56:37 dang For language. Jul 02 21:56:43 KingTaco and spam Jul 02 21:56:52 KingTaco and -fricer Jul 02 21:56:58 plasmaroo Um. Guess so; what sort of patrolling you looking for? Jul 02 21:57:14 plasmaroo Send me an email with all the stuff that qualifies as 'spanky' and we can cook something up.\ Jul 02 21:57:21 KingTaco plasmaroo, we have to work that out, just wanted to know if it was possible Jul 02 21:57:25 plasmaroo Sure. Jul 02 21:57:31 blubb we have to put ppc on that list *running* Jul 02 21:57:38 KingTaco Tester_, danke Jul 02 21:57:48 KingTaco blubb, heh, I'm getting a ppc soon Jul 02 21:57:57 KingTaco ok, anything else? Jul 02 21:58:31 blubb nope Jul 02 21:58:37 blubb finish log? Jul 02 21:58:37 * Tester_ like to read of the log of what I've missed Jul 02 21:58:44 KingTaco yah Jul 02 21:58:48 blubb Tester_: i'll send it in a few minutes
