Re: [gentoo-dev] Monthly Gentoo Council Reminder for April

2009-04-06 Thread Fabian Groffen
Ciaran, On 02-04-2009 15:47:05 +0100, Ciaran McCreesh wrote: On Thu, 2 Apr 2009 11:53:47 +0200 Fabian Groffen grob...@gentoo.org wrote: While the first variable (EPREFIX) can be set using an eclass, the latter two need to be set by the package manager. In particular ED, because the value of

Re: [gentoo-dev] Monthly Gentoo Council Reminder for April

2009-04-06 Thread Ciaran McCreesh
On Mon, 6 Apr 2009 19:24:41 +0200 Fabian Groffen grob...@gentoo.org wrote: You seem to suggest there are issues, do you have any specific concerns that we can address? I've still not seen a full description of the problem you're trying to solve with prefix. The last time we tried this there

Re: [gentoo-dev] Monthly Gentoo Council Reminder for April

2009-04-02 Thread Ciaran McCreesh
On Thu, 2 Apr 2009 11:53:47 +0200 Fabian Groffen grob...@gentoo.org wrote: While the first variable (EPREFIX) can be set using an eclass, the latter two need to be set by the package manager. In particular ED, because the value of D might not be known. EROOT and ED are convenience variables.

[gentoo-dev] Monthly Gentoo Council Reminder for April

2009-04-01 Thread Mike Frysinger
This is your monthly friendly reminder ! Same bat time (typically the 2nd Thursday at 2000 UTC / 1600 EST), same bat channel (#gentoo-council @ irc.freenode.net) ! If you have something you'd wish for us to chat about, maybe even vote on, let us know ! Simply reply to this e-mail for the whole

Re: [gentoo-dev] Monthly Gentoo Council Reminder for April

2009-04-01 Thread David Leverton
2009/4/1 Mike Frysinger vap...@gentoo.org: If you have something you'd wish for us to chat about, maybe even vote on, let us know !  Simply reply to this e-mail for the whole Gentoo dev list to see. I would like the Council to discuss the matter of Portage repeatedly changing behaviour in

Re: [gentoo-dev] Monthly Gentoo Council Reminder for April

2009-04-01 Thread Ulrich Mueller
On , 01 Apr 2009, Mike Frysinger wrote: If you have something you'd wish for us to chat about, maybe even vote on, let us know ! Simply reply to this e-mail for the whole Gentoo dev list to see. Since EAPI 3 is on the agenda already, I would ask the council to consider inclusion of mtime

Re: [gentoo-dev] Monthly Gentoo Council Reminder for April

2008-04-10 Thread Raúl Porcel
I win, as always *g* -- gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-dev] Monthly Gentoo Council Reminder for April

2008-04-08 Thread Roy Bamford
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 2008.04.07 21:37, Petteri Räty wrote: Petteri Räty kirjoitti: I checked the current slacker script and it checks for having at least one commit in last 60 days. We could of course just change the slacker script to list the activity

Re: [gentoo-dev] Monthly Gentoo Council Reminder for April

2008-04-08 Thread Robin H. Johnson
On Tue, Apr 08, 2008 at 06:30:17PM +0100, Roy Bamford wrote: That's worrying, I'm not supposed to have commit access to the tree. trustees docs, yes but that's the limit. To my knowledge, I've never made a commit there either. That's for ALL of CVS. Not just gentoo-x86. -- Robin Hugh Johnson

Re: [gentoo-dev] Monthly Gentoo Council Reminder for April

2008-04-07 Thread Petteri Räty
Petteri Räty kirjoitti: I checked the current slacker script and it checks for having at least one commit in last 60 days. We could of course just change the slacker script to list the activity for everyone during the last 60 days and leave the interpretation to undertakers. Regards,

Re: [gentoo-dev] Monthly Gentoo Council Reminder for April

2008-04-07 Thread Mike Pagano
On Monday 07 April 2008 04:37:18 pm Petteri Räty wrote: Petteri Räty kirjoitti: So I wrote a new slacker script that gets the active developers from LDAP and checks the activity for the last 60 days. One repoman commit should equal a couple entries on history but not sure on that. robbat2

Re: [gentoo-dev] Monthly Gentoo Council Reminder for April

2008-04-07 Thread Jan Kundrát
Petteri Räty wrote: 26767 ingmar 41523 philantrop Go KDE go! :) Cheers, -jkt -- cd /local/pub more beer /dev/mouth signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: [gentoo-dev] Monthly Gentoo Council Reminder for April

2008-04-07 Thread Petteri Räty
Mike Pagano kirjoitti: On Monday 07 April 2008 04:37:18 pm Petteri Räty wrote: Petteri Räty kirjoitti: So I wrote a new slacker script that gets the active developers from LDAP and checks the activity for the last 60 days. One repoman commit should equal a couple entries on history but not

Re: [gentoo-dev] Monthly Gentoo Council Reminder for April

2008-04-07 Thread Robin H. Johnson
On Tue, Apr 08, 2008 at 03:10:03AM +0300, Petteri R??ty wrote: Guess I wasn't clear enough. There is no filtering in that list based on the developer role in Gentoo. It's all Gentoo developers marked as active in LDAP. We first need to add the LDAP attributes before we can add the filter to

Re: [gentoo-dev] Monthly Gentoo Council Reminder for April

2008-04-04 Thread Bo Ørsted Andresen
On Thursday 03 April 2008 14:55:43 Patrick Lauer wrote: But if you don't trust anyone there is no reason why you would even try to interact with Gentoo. So at some point you will have to decide to arbitrarily trust a few entities, be it devs or servers or cryptographic keys ... Uh huh,

Re: [gentoo-dev] Monthly Gentoo Council Reminder for April

2008-04-04 Thread Peter Volkov
В Чтв, 03/04/2008 в 18:56 +0300, Petteri Räty пишет: Petteri Räty wrote: Defining required amount of activity for ebuild devs. I would like us to raise the required amount of activity for ebuild devs. I checked the current slacker script and it checks for having at least one commit in

Re: [gentoo-dev] Monthly Gentoo Council Reminder for April

2008-04-03 Thread Fabian Groffen
On 02-04-2008 21:21:25 -0400, Richard Freeman wrote: Would it make more sense to just make a policy that failure to maintain packages that you're maintainer on will result in getting removed as the maintainer, with said packages going up for grabs? Devs who keep claiming packages only to

Re: [gentoo-dev] Monthly Gentoo Council Reminder for April

2008-04-03 Thread Ciaran McCreesh
On 01 Apr 2008 05:30:01 Mike Frysinger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If you have something you'd wish for us to chat about, maybe even vote on, let us know ! Simply reply to this e-mail for the whole Gentoo dev list to see. I'd like initial comments from the Council on PMS please. We're reaching

Re: [gentoo-dev] Monthly Gentoo Council Reminder for April

2008-04-03 Thread Petteri Räty
Jorge Manuel B. S. Vicetto kirjoitti: Petteri Räty wrote: I agree with the above point. Also, as I recall, both Pettery (betelgeuse) and Denis (calchan) have stated before that we no longer have any queue of people waiting on recruiters to join Gentoo. I'm not seeing an avalanche of new blood

Re: [gentoo-dev] Monthly Gentoo Council Reminder for April

2008-04-03 Thread Petteri Räty
Fabian Groffen kirjoitti: On 02-04-2008 21:21:25 -0400, Richard Freeman wrote: Would it make more sense to just make a policy that failure to maintain packages that you're maintainer on will result in getting removed as the maintainer, with said packages going up for grabs? Devs who keep

Re: [gentoo-dev] Monthly Gentoo Council Reminder for April

2008-04-03 Thread Jorge Manuel B. S. Vicetto
Petteri Räty wrote: Jorge Manuel B. S. Vicetto kirjoitti: Petteri Räty wrote: As others have commented, I don't agree with this point. Also, you're forgetting we have quite a few people working on this project and that we have many different roles. And you are assuming that undertakers

Re: [gentoo-dev] Monthly Gentoo Council Reminder for April

2008-04-03 Thread Ciaran McCreesh
On Thu, 03 Apr 2008 11:35:20 + Jorge Manuel B. S. Vicetto [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: True, but with some acls we could also have a different model where people worked on parts of the tree and where commit privileges didn't pose so many security risks. With the current practice of doing work

Re: [gentoo-dev] Monthly Gentoo Council Reminder for April

2008-04-03 Thread Arfrever Frehtes Taifersar Arahesis
2008-04-03 13:35 Jorge Manuel B. S. Vicetto [EMAIL PROTECTED] napisał(a): Petteri Räty wrote: Jorge Manuel B. S. Vicetto kirjoitti: As a final thought, I think this point is a tangent to the old debate about tree-wide commit privileges and or the scm of the tree. Afterall, if gentoo-x86

Re: [gentoo-dev] Monthly Gentoo Council Reminder for April

2008-04-03 Thread Petteri Räty
Ciaran McCreesh kirjoitti: On Thu, 03 Apr 2008 11:35:20 + Jorge Manuel B. S. Vicetto [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: True, but with some acls we could also have a different model where people worked on parts of the tree and where commit privileges didn't pose so many security risks. With the

Re: [gentoo-dev] Monthly Gentoo Council Reminder for April

2008-04-03 Thread Mike Auty
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Petteri Räty wrote: | Yeah, you only need access to one ebuild to do whatever you want to | user's systems. Perhaps then we should direct more of our efforts towards the GPG package signing system, so that when a dev becomes a libability, their keys

Re: [gentoo-dev] Monthly Gentoo Council Reminder for April

2008-04-03 Thread Ciaran McCreesh
On Thu, 03 Apr 2008 12:56:59 +0100 Mike Auty [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Petteri Räty wrote: | Yeah, you only need access to one ebuild to do whatever you want to | user's systems. Perhaps then we should direct more of our efforts towards the GPG package signing system, so that when a dev

Re: [gentoo-dev] Monthly Gentoo Council Reminder for April

2008-04-03 Thread Mike Auty
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Ciaran McCreesh wrote: | | Signing offers no protection against a malicious developer. | I had envisaged a system whereby when the tree was synced, as was some kind of master signed list of all acceptable dev-keys. Every package would also be

Re: [gentoo-dev] Monthly Gentoo Council Reminder for April

2008-04-03 Thread Mike Auty
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 William L. Thomson Jr. wrote: | It's about quality not quantity maybe? It's about both, and getting the balance right is effectively what this boils down to (as do many discussions on -dev). There's those devs who want high levels of QA and those

Re: [gentoo-dev] Monthly Gentoo Council Reminder for April

2008-04-03 Thread Ciaran McCreesh
On Thu, 03 Apr 2008 13:17:51 +0100 Mike Auty [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ciaran McCreesh wrote: | Signing offers no protection against a malicious developer. I had envisaged a system whereby when the tree was synced, as was some kind of master signed list of all acceptable dev-keys. Every

Re: [gentoo-dev] Monthly Gentoo Council Reminder for April

2008-04-03 Thread Patrick Lauer
Ciaran McCreesh wrote: On Thu, 03 Apr 2008 13:17:51 +0100 Mike Auty [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ciaran McCreesh wrote: | Signing offers no protection against a malicious developer. I had envisaged a system whereby when the tree was synced, as was some kind of master signed list of all

Re: [gentoo-dev] Monthly Gentoo Council Reminder for April

2008-04-03 Thread Patrick Lauer
Mike Auty wrote: Ciaran McCreesh wrote: | | Signing offers no protection against a malicious developer. | I had envisaged a system whereby when the tree was synced, as was some kind of master signed list of all acceptable dev-keys. Every package would also be signed, and would only be

Re: [gentoo-dev] Monthly Gentoo Council Reminder for April

2008-04-03 Thread Ciaran McCreesh
On Thu, 03 Apr 2008 14:29:10 +0200 Patrick Lauer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Nope. In fact, using such a system, there are ways of getting in code that doesn't get triggered until someone's key gets invalidated. By this reasoning you shouldn't use passwords ... The idea is to limit the

Re: [gentoo-dev] Monthly Gentoo Council Reminder for April

2008-04-03 Thread Patrick Lauer
Ciaran McCreesh wrote: On Thu, 03 Apr 2008 14:29:10 +0200 Patrick Lauer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Nope. In fact, using such a system, there are ways of getting in code that doesn't get triggered until someone's key gets invalidated. By this reasoning you shouldn't use passwords ...

Re: [gentoo-dev] Monthly Gentoo Council Reminder for April

2008-04-03 Thread Ciaran McCreesh
On Thu, 03 Apr 2008 14:44:45 +0200 Patrick Lauer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: and then, from that design space, select the option(s) that have the best behaviour. If you get bored you can read the not-yet-GLEPs robbat2 has written with the help of a few others, which would cut out a large part of

Re: [gentoo-dev] Monthly Gentoo Council Reminder for April

2008-04-03 Thread Patrick Lauer
Ciaran McCreesh wrote: On Thu, 03 Apr 2008 14:44:45 +0200 Patrick Lauer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: and then, from that design space, select the option(s) that have the best behaviour. If you get bored you can read the not-yet-GLEPs robbat2 has written with the help of a few others, which

Re: [gentoo-dev] Monthly Gentoo Council Reminder for April

2008-04-03 Thread Ciaran McCreesh
On Thu, 03 Apr 2008 14:55:43 +0200 Patrick Lauer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Uh huh, which is what my original reply to Mike was all about. We're way ahead of you here... Or so you think. So now that you've tried to label me as a dimwit we're past that stage and can now return to

Re: [gentoo-dev] Monthly Gentoo Council Reminder for April

2008-04-03 Thread Richard Freeman
Mike Auty wrote: So the still unanswered question appears to be, would we like Gentoo to have fewer packages and less choice but greater QA, stability and a feel of professionalism, or would we like to have more packages and choice but a worse QA record, make some mistakes, and have a more

Re: [gentoo-dev] Monthly Gentoo Council Reminder for April

2008-04-03 Thread Thomas Anderson
On 11:35 Thu 03 Apr , Jorge Manuel B. S. Vicetto wrote: Petteri R??ty wrote: Jorge Manuel B. S. Vicetto kirjoitti: Petteri R??ty wrote: As others have commented, I don't agree with this point. Also, you're forgetting we have quite a few people working on this project and that we have

Re: [gentoo-dev] Monthly Gentoo Council Reminder for April

2008-04-03 Thread Wulf C. Krueger
If we used git, proxy maintaining would be easier. Many things would be easier then. I'm all for switching to git. -- Best regards, Wulf pgpextitGtwiV.pgp Description: PGP Digital Signature

RE: [gentoo-dev] Monthly Gentoo Council Reminder for April

2008-04-03 Thread Chrissy Fullam
Petteri Räty wrote: Mike Frysinger kirjoitti: This is your monthly friendly reminder ! Same bat time (typically the 2nd Thursday at 2000 UTC / 1600 EST), same bat channel (#gentoo-council @ irc.freenode.net) ! If you have something you'd wish for us to chat about, maybe even vote

Re: [gentoo-dev] Monthly Gentoo Council Reminder for April

2008-04-03 Thread Petteri Räty
Chrissy Fullam kirjoitti: Petteri Räty wrote: Mike Frysinger kirjoitti: This is your monthly friendly reminder ! Same bat time (typically the 2nd Thursday at 2000 UTC / 1600 EST), same bat channel (#gentoo-council @ irc.freenode.net) ! If you have something you'd wish for us to chat about,

RE: [gentoo-dev] Monthly Gentoo Council Reminder for April

2008-04-03 Thread Chrissy Fullam
Petteri Räty wrote: I checked the current slacker script and it checks for having at least one commit in last 60 days. We could of course just change the slacker script to list the activity for everyone during the last 60 days and leave the interpretation to undertakers. Interesting

Re: [gentoo-dev] Monthly Gentoo Council Reminder for April

2008-04-03 Thread Donnie Berkholz
On 09:53 Thu 03 Apr , Thomas Anderson wrote: On 11:35 Thu 03 Apr , Jorge Manuel B. S. Vicetto wrote: Petteri R??ty wrote: Recalling previous discussions about work on gentoo and some of the existing roles, what will you do to AT folks, release members or QA members? Are they

Re: [gentoo-dev] Monthly Gentoo Council Reminder for April

2008-04-03 Thread Chris Gianelloni
On Thu, 2008-04-03 at 13:49 +0200, Arfrever Frehtes Taifersar Arahesis wrote: If we used git, proxy maintaining would be easier. True, but with some acls we could also have a different model where people worked on parts of the tree and where commit privileges didn't pose so many

Re: [gentoo-dev] Monthly Gentoo Council Reminder for April

2008-04-03 Thread Chris Gianelloni
On Thu, 2008-04-03 at 09:21 -0400, Richard Freeman wrote: Regardless, as long as devs actually follow policy I don't see any need to boot them. Maybe very long periods of inactivity should result in having accounts locked as a security measure (so that we don't end up with hundreds of ssh

Re: [gentoo-dev] Monthly Gentoo Council Reminder for April

2008-04-02 Thread Wulf C. Krueger
On Wednesday, 02. April 2008 22:46:16 Petteri Räty wrote: How does having the average time between commits be at most a week sound and if it goes under that, undertakers will get a notification? It sounds like you're trying to get rid of someone. -- Best regards, Wulf signature.asc

Re: [gentoo-dev] Monthly Gentoo Council Reminder for April

2008-04-02 Thread Petteri Räty
Mike Frysinger kirjoitti: This is your monthly friendly reminder ! Same bat time (typically the 2nd Thursday at 2000 UTC / 1600 EST), same bat channel (#gentoo-council @ irc.freenode.net) ! If you have something you'd wish for us to chat about, maybe even vote on, let us know ! Simply reply

Re: [gentoo-dev] Monthly Gentoo Council Reminder for April

2008-04-02 Thread joshua jackson
Wulf C. Krueger wrote: On Wednesday, 02. April 2008 22:46:16 Petteri Räty wrote: How does having the average time between commits be at most a week sound and if it goes under that, undertakers will get a notification? It sounds like you're trying to get rid of someone.

Re: [gentoo-dev] Monthly Gentoo Council Reminder for April

2008-04-02 Thread Mike Auty
Petteri Räty wrote: Defining required amount of activity for ebuild devs. I would like us to raise the required amount of activity for ebuild devs. Given that the low number of developers is ranked as our number one problem in Donnie's informal survey[1], taking any kind of action against

Re: [gentoo-dev] Monthly Gentoo Council Reminder for April

2008-04-02 Thread Petteri Räty
Mike Auty kirjoitti: Petteri Räty wrote: Defining required amount of activity for ebuild devs. I would like us to raise the required amount of activity for ebuild devs. Given that the low number of developers is ranked as our number one problem in Donnie's informal survey[1], taking any kind

Re: [gentoo-dev] Monthly Gentoo Council Reminder for April

2008-04-02 Thread Jan Kundrát
Petteri Räty wrote: If you can't manage weekly commits, you can't respond to security issues either. This means that you should have devaway on. That assumption is false. If there was a need to do weekly commits and the dev in question couldn't manage it, it would be wise to expect that he

Re: [gentoo-dev] Monthly Gentoo Council Reminder for April

2008-04-02 Thread Mike Auty
Petteri Räty wrote: If you can't manage weekly commits, you can't respond to security issues either. I can see your point, I was more thinking about developers who have maybe one or two small packages that don't have many version bumps or bugs. They may be entirely able to respond to

Re: [gentoo-dev] Monthly Gentoo Council Reminder for April

2008-04-02 Thread Petteri Räty
Wulf C. Krueger kirjoitti: On Wednesday, 02. April 2008 22:46:16 Petteri Räty wrote: How does having the average time between commits be at most a week sound and if it goes under that, undertakers will get a notification? It sounds like you're trying to get rid of someone. I don't have

Re: [gentoo-dev] Monthly Gentoo Council Reminder for April

2008-04-02 Thread Richard Brown
On Wed, Apr 2, 2008 at 10:26 PM, Petteri Räty [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If you can't manage weekly commits, you can't respond to security issues either. This means that you should have devaway on. So if you don't maintain enough packages to commit on average once a week, you're not worth

Re: [gentoo-dev] Monthly Gentoo Council Reminder for April

2008-04-02 Thread Petteri Räty
Mike Auty kirjoitti: Petteri Räty wrote: If you can't manage weekly commits, you can't respond to security issues either. I can see your point, I was more thinking about developers who have maybe one or two small packages that don't have many version bumps or bugs. They may be entirely

Re: [gentoo-dev] Monthly Gentoo Council Reminder for April

2008-04-02 Thread William L. Thomson Jr.
On Wed, 2008-04-02 at 22:19 +0100, Mike Auty wrote: Petteri Räty wrote: Defining required amount of activity for ebuild devs. I would like us to raise the required amount of activity for ebuild devs. Given that the low number of developers is ranked as our number one problem in

Re: [gentoo-dev] Monthly Gentoo Council Reminder for April

2008-04-02 Thread Richard Freeman
Jan Kundrát wrote: Petteri Räty wrote: If you can't manage weekly commits, you can't respond to security issues either. This means that you should have devaway on. That assumption is false. If there was a need to do weekly commits and the dev in question couldn't manage it, it would be wise

Re: [gentoo-dev] Monthly Gentoo Council Reminder for April

2008-04-02 Thread Jorge Manuel B. S. Vicetto
Petteri Räty wrote: Mike Auty kirjoitti: Petteri Räty wrote: Defining required amount of activity for ebuild devs. I would like us to raise the required amount of activity for ebuild devs. Given that the low number of developers is ranked as our number one problem in Donnie's informal

Re: [gentoo-dev] Monthly Gentoo Council Reminder for April

2007-04-10 Thread Paul de Vrieze
Seemant Kulleen wrote: On Thu, 2007-04-05 at 13:29 +0200, Denis Dupeyron wrote: Why not simply allow trustees to veto a council decision ? This does not give trustees enough power to be a second council, but would permit them to stop something that they believe will damage Gentoo. This is very

Re: [gentoo-dev] Monthly Gentoo Council Reminder for April

2007-04-05 Thread Ciaran McCreesh
On Wed, 4 Apr 2007 01:51:56 -0400 Mike Frysinger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: - PMS: - status update from spb - moving it to Gentoo svn - schedule for getting remaining issues settled Same question as last time this came up: Can you name any other projects where the Council

Re: [gentoo-dev] Monthly Gentoo Council Reminder for April

2007-04-05 Thread Denis Dupeyron
On 4/5/07, Alexandre Buisse [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well, the thing is, vote happens only once a year, and quite a lot of things can be done during that time. I just think that not having any rule at all concerning limitations to the council is tying our hands in our back. If the council never

Re: [gentoo-dev] Monthly Gentoo Council Reminder for April

2007-04-05 Thread Ciaran McCreesh
On Wed, 4 Apr 2007 15:17:18 -0500 Grant Goodyear [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Alexandre Buisse wrote: [Wed Apr 04 2007, 02:36:43PM CDT] I won't take this to the council myself, but I think this should be discussed at the very least: we need a way to limit the council power, since it seems there

Re: [gentoo-dev] Monthly Gentoo Council Reminder for April

2007-04-05 Thread Wernfried Haas
On Thu, Apr 05, 2007 at 09:26:41AM +0100, Ciaran McCreesh wrote: Unfortunately, what the GLEP doesn't do is prevent the Council from having secret meetings and refusing to discuss not only the content of those meetings but even the topic. Perhaps a requirement that any Council meeting logs be

Re: [gentoo-dev] Monthly Gentoo Council Reminder for April

2007-04-05 Thread Wernfried Haas
On Wed, Apr 04, 2007 at 12:27:09PM -0400, Mike Frysinger wrote: sorry, due to the thread (things for Council to talk about), i thought the work you were talking about was stuff for the Council to discuss ... that seems to not be the case Ah, sorry about that. As you said, right now there is

Re: [gentoo-dev] Monthly Gentoo Council Reminder for April

2007-04-05 Thread Seemant Kulleen
On Thu, 2007-04-05 at 13:29 +0200, Denis Dupeyron wrote: Why not simply allow trustees to veto a council decision ? This does not give trustees enough power to be a second council, but would permit them to stop something that they believe will damage Gentoo. This is very little red tape IMHO.

Re: [gentoo-dev] Monthly Gentoo Council Reminder for April

2007-04-05 Thread Christopher Sawtell
On Fri, 06 Apr 2007 00:09:12 Wernfried Haas wrote: On Thu, Apr 05, 2007 at 09:26:41AM +0100, Ciaran McCreesh wrote: Unfortunately, what the GLEP doesn't do is prevent the Council from having secret meetings and refusing to discuss not only the content of those meetings but even the topic.

Re: [gentoo-dev] Monthly Gentoo Council Reminder for April

2007-04-05 Thread Chris Gianelloni
On Thu, 2007-04-05 at 13:29 +0200, Denis Dupeyron wrote: On 4/5/07, Alexandre Buisse [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well, the thing is, vote happens only once a year, and quite a lot of things can be done during that time. I just think that not having any rule at all concerning limitations to the

Re: [gentoo-dev] Monthly Gentoo Council Reminder for April

2007-04-05 Thread Chris Gianelloni
On Thu, 2007-04-05 at 08:19 -0400, Seemant Kulleen wrote: On Thu, 2007-04-05 at 13:29 +0200, Denis Dupeyron wrote: Why not simply allow trustees to veto a council decision ? This does not give trustees enough power to be a second council, but would permit them to stop something that they

Re: [gentoo-dev] Monthly Gentoo Council Reminder for April

2007-04-05 Thread Ciaran McCreesh
On Thu, 5 Apr 2007 14:09:12 +0200 Wernfried Haas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, Apr 05, 2007 at 09:26:41AM +0100, Ciaran McCreesh wrote: Unfortunately, what the GLEP doesn't do is prevent the Council from having secret meetings and refusing to discuss not only the content of those

Re: [gentoo-dev] Monthly Gentoo Council Reminder for April

2007-04-05 Thread Matti Bickel
Ciaran McCreesh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If they want to have sekrit meetings with sekrit handshakes, let them. If enough people think this is not acceptable, they'll be gone on the next election. Which is all very well, but it's kind of hard to evaluate the effectiveness of Council

Re: [gentoo-dev] Monthly Gentoo Council Reminder for April

2007-04-05 Thread Chris Gianelloni
On Thu, 2007-04-05 at 14:51 +0100, Ciaran McCreesh wrote: details can remain private if necessary, but publishing a brief summary along the lines of we discussed x and y and decided z *has* to be less harmful than the current mess where people are deleting their work and considering

Re: [gentoo-dev] Monthly Gentoo Council Reminder for April

2007-04-05 Thread Ciaran McCreesh
On Thu, 05 Apr 2007 10:47:37 -0400 Chris Gianelloni [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I mean, all this the Council is hiding something conspiracy theory is bullshit. Then why are certain Council members, you included, threatening to remove other Council members' and Gentoo developers' access if logs of

Re: [gentoo-dev] Monthly Gentoo Council Reminder for April

2007-04-05 Thread Chris Gianelloni
On Thu, 2007-04-05 at 16:00 +0100, Ciaran McCreesh wrote: Honestly, the only reason there is any suggestion of a conspiracy is because of the threats being made by certain people to keep a certain log a secret... The log contains information that was given to us in confidence. How much

Re: [gentoo-dev] Monthly Gentoo Council Reminder for April

2007-04-05 Thread Josh Saddler
Chris Gianelloni wrote: On Thu, 2007-04-05 at 16:00 +0100, Ciaran McCreesh wrote: Honestly, the only reason there is any suggestion of a conspiracy is because of the threats being made by certain people to keep a certain log a secret... The log contains information that was given to us in

Re: [gentoo-dev] Monthly Gentoo Council Reminder for April

2007-04-05 Thread Chris Gianelloni
On Thu, 2007-04-05 at 09:04 -0700, Josh Saddler wrote: Chris Gianelloni wrote: On Thu, 2007-04-05 at 16:00 +0100, Ciaran McCreesh wrote: Honestly, the only reason there is any suggestion of a conspiracy is because of the threats being made by certain people to keep a certain log a

Re: [gentoo-dev] Monthly Gentoo Council Reminder for April

2007-04-05 Thread Mike Doty
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Donnie Berkholz wrote: Mike Doty wrote: apparent decline of QA in our packages. Anyone got numbers for that? Talking opinions, as in the SCM discussion, isn't real meaningful. Thanks, Donnie What metric would you use? the number of stages

Re: [gentoo-dev] Monthly Gentoo Council Reminder for April

2007-04-05 Thread Ciaran McCreesh
On Thu, 05 Apr 2007 09:04:09 -0700 Josh Saddler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Here's how it appears to someone reading all this, though: Ciaran *already knows* what's going on, which means that some person(s) who *were* privy to those meetings have talked, plain and simple. If that's true, then

Re: [gentoo-dev] Monthly Gentoo Council Reminder for April

2007-04-05 Thread Ciaran McCreesh
On Thu, 05 Apr 2007 12:24:06 -0400 Chris Gianelloni [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well, from what I can gather, he only *thinks* he knows what was going on and he's filled in the blanks himself with whatever ideas he's come up with on his own. If he really does have the logs, he wouldn't be

Re: [gentoo-dev] Monthly Gentoo Council Reminder for April

2007-04-05 Thread Mike Frysinger
On Sunday 01 April 2007, Mike Frysinger wrote: If you have something you'd wish for us to chat about, maybe even vote on, let us know ! Simply reply to this e-mail for the whole Gentoo dev list to see. another one i had mentioned earlier: - a time frame on moving gentoo-core to public

Re: [gentoo-dev] Monthly Gentoo Council Reminder for April

2007-04-05 Thread Danny van Dyk
Am Donnerstag, 5. April 2007 14:09 schrieb Wernfried Haas: If they want to have sekrit meetings with sekrit handshakes, let them. If enough people think this is not acceptable, they'll be gone on the next election. Especially as there are council members who don't rely like any privacy in that

Re: [gentoo-dev] Monthly Gentoo Council Reminder for April

2007-04-05 Thread Mike Frysinger
On Thursday 05 April 2007, Ciaran McCreesh wrote: Unfortunately, what the GLEP doesn't do is prevent the Council from having secret meetings and refusing to discuss not only the content of those meetings but even the topic. Perhaps a requirement that any Council meeting logs be made public

Re: [gentoo-dev] Monthly Gentoo Council Reminder for April

2007-04-05 Thread William L. Thomson Jr.
On Thu, 2007-04-05 at 15:20 -0400, Mike Frysinger wrote: On Sunday 01 April 2007, Mike Frysinger wrote: If you have something you'd wish for us to chat about, maybe even vote on, let us know ! Simply reply to this e-mail for the whole Gentoo dev list to see. another one i had mentioned

Re: [gentoo-dev] Monthly Gentoo Council Reminder for April

2007-04-05 Thread Danny van Dyk
Am Donnerstag, 5. April 2007 21:20 schrieb Mike Frysinger: On Sunday 01 April 2007, Mike Frysinger wrote: If you have something you'd wish for us to chat about, maybe even vote on, let us know ! Simply reply to this e-mail for the whole Gentoo dev list to see. another one i had mentioned

Re: [gentoo-dev] Monthly Gentoo Council Reminder for April

2007-04-05 Thread Chris Gianelloni
On Thu, 2007-04-05 at 22:15 +0200, Danny van Dyk wrote: Am Donnerstag, 5. April 2007 14:09 schrieb Wernfried Haas: If they want to have sekrit meetings with sekrit handshakes, let them. If enough people think this is not acceptable, they'll be gone on the next election. Especially as there

Re: [gentoo-dev] Monthly Gentoo Council Reminder for April

2007-04-05 Thread Mike Frysinger
On Thursday 05 April 2007, Danny van Dyk wrote: Am Donnerstag, 5. April 2007 21:20 schrieb Mike Frysinger: On Sunday 01 April 2007, Mike Frysinger wrote: If you have something you'd wish for us to chat about, maybe even vote on, let us know ! Simply reply to this e-mail for the whole

Re: [gentoo-dev] Monthly Gentoo Council Reminder for April

2007-04-05 Thread Ned Ludd
On Thu, 2007-04-05 at 15:20 -0400, Mike Frysinger wrote: On Sunday 01 April 2007, Mike Frysinger wrote: If you have something you'd wish for us to chat about, maybe even vote on, let us know ! Simply reply to this e-mail for the whole Gentoo dev list to see. another one i had

Re: [gentoo-dev] Monthly Gentoo Council Reminder for April

2007-04-05 Thread Denis Dupeyron
On 4/5/07, Chris Gianelloni [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I just find this whole situation hysterical since you have so many people saying the Council needs to grow a pair and actually try to enact some good, and when we do, you hear a few vocal individuals running around screaming like we killed

Re: [gentoo-dev] Monthly Gentoo Council Reminder for April

2007-04-05 Thread Petteri Räty
Ned Ludd kirjoitti: On Thu, 2007-04-05 at 15:20 -0400, Mike Frysinger wrote: On Sunday 01 April 2007, Mike Frysinger wrote: If you have something you'd wish for us to chat about, maybe even vote on, let us know ! Simply reply to this e-mail for the whole Gentoo dev list to see. another

Re: [gentoo-dev] Monthly Gentoo Council Reminder for April

2007-04-05 Thread Wernfried Haas
On Thu, Apr 05, 2007 at 02:18:40PM -0700, Ned Ludd wrote: I object and hope this is never done. There are things said on core that I do not wish to be public. I've sent mails myself that if they were ever going to be published publicly I would of never sent them. As far i remember the idea

Re: [gentoo-dev] Monthly Gentoo Council Reminder for April

2007-04-05 Thread Mike Frysinger
On Thursday 05 April 2007, Wernfried Haas wrote: On Thu, Apr 05, 2007 at 02:18:40PM -0700, Ned Ludd wrote: I object and hope this is never done. There are things said on core that I do not wish to be public. I've sent mails myself that if they were ever going to be published publicly I

Re: [gentoo-dev] Monthly Gentoo Council Reminder for April

2007-04-04 Thread Mike Doty
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Mike Frysinger wrote: some topics off the top of my head: - unaddressed CoC issues: - add a mission statement - fix wording to have a positive spin - what else ? - sync Social Contract with Gentoo Foundation statement

Re: [gentoo-dev] Monthly Gentoo Council Reminder for April

2007-04-04 Thread Donnie Berkholz
Mike Doty wrote: apparent decline of QA in our packages. Anyone got numbers for that? Talking opinions, as in the SCM discussion, isn't real meaningful. Thanks, Donnie -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-dev] Monthly Gentoo Council Reminder for April

2007-04-04 Thread Bryan Østergaard
On Wed, Apr 04, 2007 at 01:51:56AM -0400, Mike Frysinger wrote: some topics off the top of my head: - unaddressed CoC issues: - add a mission statement - fix wording to have a positive spin - what else ? We need quite a few more people on the CoC team. One reason being that

Re: [gentoo-dev] Monthly Gentoo Council Reminder for April

2007-04-04 Thread Wernfried Haas
Since i tried to get things running for the last week or two, i need to throw in my 2 cents here. On Wed, Apr 04, 2007 at 10:18:17AM +0200, Bryan Østergaard wrote: On Wed, Apr 04, 2007 at 01:51:56AM -0400, Mike Frysinger wrote: some topics off the top of my head: - unaddressed CoC issues:

Re: [gentoo-dev] Monthly Gentoo Council Reminder for April

2007-04-04 Thread Mike Frysinger
On Wednesday 04 April 2007, Wernfried Haas wrote: Since i tried to get things running for the last week or two, i need to throw in my 2 cents here. On Wed, Apr 04, 2007 at 10:18:17AM +0200, Bryan Østergaard wrote: On Wed, Apr 04, 2007 at 01:51:56AM -0400, Mike Frysinger wrote: -

Re: [gentoo-dev] Monthly Gentoo Council Reminder for April

2007-04-04 Thread Wernfried Haas
On Wed, Apr 04, 2007 at 05:55:56AM -0400, Mike Frysinger wrote: On Wednesday 04 April 2007, Wernfried Haas wrote: Since i tried to get things running for the last week or two, i need to throw in my 2 cents here. On Wed, Apr 04, 2007 at 10:18:17AM +0200, Bryan Østergaard wrote: On Wed,

Re: [gentoo-dev] Monthly Gentoo Council Reminder for April

2007-04-04 Thread Mike Frysinger
On Wednesday 04 April 2007, Wernfried Haas wrote: I compiled a list of things that i think need to be done such as defining some general guidelines for work, snip sorry, due to the thread (things for Council to talk about), i thought the work you were talking about was stuff for the Council to

Re: [gentoo-dev] Monthly Gentoo Council Reminder for April

2007-04-04 Thread Alexandre Buisse
On Sun, Apr 1, 2007 at 12:32:06 +0200, Mike Frysinger wrote: This is your monthly friendly reminder ! Same bat time (typically the 2nd Thursday at 2000 UTC / 1500 EST), same bat channel (#gentoo-council @ irc.freenode.net) ! If you have something you'd wish for us to chat about, maybe

Re: [gentoo-dev] Monthly Gentoo Council Reminder for April

2007-04-04 Thread Grant Goodyear
Alexandre Buisse wrote: [Wed Apr 04 2007, 02:36:43PM CDT] I won't take this to the council myself, but I think this should be discussed at the very least: we need a way to limit the council power, since it seems there is nothing to this effect in the metastructure glep. For what it's worth,

Re: [gentoo-dev] Monthly Gentoo Council Reminder for April

2007-04-04 Thread Donnie Berkholz
Alexandre Buisse wrote: I won't take this to the council myself, but I think this should be discussed at the very least: we need a way to limit the council power, since it seems there is nothing to this effect in the metastructure glep. I'm not going to write an essay because I don't have the

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