Re: [gentoo-dev] New project: Gentoo Seeds

2006-09-24 Thread Paul de Vrieze
On Wednesday 20 September 2006 23:06, Ciaran McCreesh wrote: A GLEP doesn't have to be bureaucracy. It can be nothing more than a way of ensuring that the correct technical decisions are made. For a project that could end up affecting a lot of people, getting the design right and determining

Re: [gentoo-dev] New project: Gentoo Seeds

2006-09-22 Thread Alin Nastac
Dice R. Random wrote: What control mechanisms are there within the Gentoo community to keep a few bad apples from spoiling the whole barrel, as it were? I do not wish to name any names, but it seems to me from having skimmed this list for the past few years that there are a couple people who

Re: [gentoo-dev] New project: Gentoo Seeds

2006-09-22 Thread Simon Stelling
Alin Nastac wrote: Our civilized disputes are taken place in public because we are an open organization. If this looks bad in the eyes of some, so be it, but please keep your opinions out of this list. Except that they're not always that civilized, which was his entire point. -- Kind

Re: [gentoo-dev] New project: Gentoo Seeds

2006-09-21 Thread Nick Rout
On Wed, 20 Sep 2006 23:53:39 +0100 Ciaran McCreesh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wed, 20 Sep 2006 18:42:13 -0400 Alec Warner [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: | As Donnie said; if this is the thanks one gets for trying out a new | idea; then why try at all. The complaints are not that Stuart tried a

Re: [gentoo-dev] New project: Gentoo Seeds

2006-09-21 Thread Alec Warner
However the behaviour displayed in this list, and in particular this thread are downright embarassing. I used to be proud of being a gentoo user and following a group of dedicated and clever developers. Now I just want to find a quick and easy way to get rid of it. You have had your antics

Re: [gentoo-dev] New project: Gentoo Seeds

2006-09-21 Thread Nick Rout
On 9/21/2006, Alec Warner [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: However the behaviour displayed in this list, and in particular this thread are downright embarassing. I used to be proud of being a gentoo user and following a group of dedicated and clever developers. Now I just want to find a quick

Re: [gentoo-dev] New project: Gentoo Seeds

2006-09-21 Thread Dice R. Random
On 9/21/06, Wernfried Haas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Please keep in mind that only a few of the approximately 300 Gentoo developers are taking part in this discussion and only a few of them actually seem to get a bit more heated than it should be. If you think they are behaving poorly, feel free

Re: [gentoo-dev] New project: Gentoo Seeds

2006-09-20 Thread Thomas Cort
On Tue, 19 Sep 2006 21:11:17 -0400 Mike Frysinger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: why does it need to be part of releng ? releng and seeds will be doing similar tasks, releasing stage tarballs. -Thomas pgpIH4JTTufWm.pgp Description: PGP signature

Re: [gentoo-dev] New project: Gentoo Seeds

2006-09-20 Thread Stuart Herbert
On 9/20/06, Daniel Ostrow [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wed, 2006-09-20 at 00:56 +0200, Carsten Lohrke wrote: First step should imho be, that you work with the Portage team on having proper set support implemented. Current meta ebuilds do suck, really. No need for meta ebuilds...stage4 specs +

Re: [gentoo-dev] New project: Gentoo Seeds

2006-09-20 Thread Chris Gianelloni
On Tue, 2006-09-19 at 20:00 +0100, Stuart Herbert wrote: Hi, I've created a new project, called Gentoo Seeds [1]. The aim of the project is to create stage4 tarballs which can be used to 'seed' new boxes with ready-built Gentoo solutions. Uhh... seeds? Until we've gone through a few

Re: Fw: [gentoo-dev] New project: Gentoo Seeds

2006-09-20 Thread Chris Gianelloni
On Tue, 2006-09-19 at 01:05 -0700, Matthew Marlowe wrote: I would see the workflow proceed in the following manner: Releng herd makes available new official gentoo releases Uhh... we aren't a herd. -- Chris Gianelloni Release Engineering Strategic Lead Alpha/AMD64/x86 Architecture Teams

Re: [gentoo-dev] New project: Gentoo Seeds

2006-09-20 Thread Donnie Berkholz
Chris Gianelloni wrote: bring the work to the main tree? As in... duplicate functionality already provided by catalyst for quite some time? Catalyst doesn't provide ongoing maintenance or migration of installed systems ... you need more than just a spec file for one of these seeds. Why

Re: [gentoo-dev] New project: Gentoo Seeds

2006-09-20 Thread Stuart Herbert
On 9/20/06, Chris Gianelloni [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Uhh... seeds? Yes, seeds. Seems to describe what we're working towards as well as any other name. bring the work to the main tree? As in... duplicate functionality already provided by catalyst for quite some time? No. As in, bring

Re: [gentoo-dev] New project: Gentoo Seeds

2006-09-20 Thread Chris Gianelloni
On Tue, 2006-09-19 at 21:11 -0400, Mike Frysinger wrote: why does it need to be part of releng ? GNAP does releases with catalyst, but it's part of embedded We also consider Koon to be a part of Release Engineering and he works with us and we work with him for GNAP. He even has access to

Re: [gentoo-dev] New project: Gentoo Seeds

2006-09-20 Thread Chris Gianelloni
On Wed, 2006-09-20 at 07:04 -0700, Donnie Berkholz wrote: Chris Gianelloni wrote: bring the work to the main tree? As in... duplicate functionality already provided by catalyst for quite some time? Catalyst doesn't provide ongoing maintenance or migration of installed systems ...

Re: [gentoo-dev] New project: Gentoo Seeds

2006-09-20 Thread Chris Gianelloni
On Wed, 2006-09-20 at 15:07 +0100, Stuart Herbert wrote: Why hasn't anybody even *tried* to contact Release Engineering on something like this, considering we already have all of the tools necessary to complete this, as well as the expertise? We have, and folks there have been very

Re: [gentoo-dev] New project: Gentoo Seeds

2006-09-20 Thread Stuart Herbert
On 9/20/06, Chris Gianelloni [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Catalyst doesn't provide ongoing maintenance or migration of installed systems ... you need more than just a spec file for one of these seeds. Like what? It sounds like they aren't providing anything but tarballs. Tarballs, VMware

Re: [gentoo-dev] New project: Gentoo Seeds

2006-09-20 Thread Donnie Berkholz
Chris Gianelloni wrote: I apologise to everyone for my responses to this. Thank you. Donnie signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: [gentoo-dev] New project: Gentoo Seeds

2006-09-20 Thread Ramon van Alteren
Hi, I'm one of the people working on seeds. It's not a new project afaic i produce seed-alike things anyway because I need to run a large serverpark on gentoo and I can't hand-install servers anymore. We generate custom stage4's tailored to our environment. One of the reasons i was/am

Re: [gentoo-dev] New project: Gentoo Seeds

2006-09-20 Thread Mike Frysinger
On Wednesday 20 September 2006 12:38, Alec Warner wrote: I think Chris's primary concern is one of Tell us whats up before it happens. why should he care ? some Gentoo guys take catalyst and produce stage4s directed at certain applications they arent talking about any of the tools releng

Re: [gentoo-dev] New project: Gentoo Seeds

2006-09-20 Thread Jon Portnoy
On Wed, Sep 20, 2006 at 10:49:40AM -0400, Chris Gianelloni wrote: Because it's *REALLY* stupid and shows just how unprofessional we are when we have multiple groups doing the *EXACT* same thing using different policies and procedures and all pushing it as if it were *OFFICIAL* for the

Re: [gentoo-dev] New project: Gentoo Seeds

2006-09-20 Thread Donnie Berkholz
Danny van Dyk wrote: * How do you want to implement the profiles? * Re: the meta-ebuilds you'd been talking about in this thread: Have you yet considered to use the profiles' packages file? I've mentioned this idea to Stuart. Thanks for bringing it up again. Do you think it's the best way

Re: [gentoo-dev] New project: Gentoo Seeds

2006-09-20 Thread Donnie Berkholz
Joshua Jackson wrote: However, as Chris stated loudly, that this is something that falls directly in line with Release Engineerings goal. Its not a top level project that creates something entirely new. Its a extension of the release of images that allow you to install a system. Sure,

Re: [gentoo-dev] New project: Gentoo Seeds

2006-09-20 Thread Andrew Gaffney
Donnie Berkholz wrote: Andrew Gaffney wrote: Mike Frysinger wrote: On Wednesday 20 September 2006 12:38, Alec Warner wrote: I think Chris's primary concern is one of Tell us whats up before it happens. why should he care ? some Gentoo guys take catalyst and produce stage4s directed at

Re: [gentoo-dev] New project: Gentoo Seeds

2006-09-20 Thread Stuart Herbert
On 9/20/06, Matthew Marlowe [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 3) We are where we are at today. Stuart comes up with a great idea for the seeds project which might help address the virtualization address image and it appears releng doesnt like it, so progress could be delayed by another 6 months to year.

Re: [gentoo-dev] New project: Gentoo Seeds

2006-09-20 Thread Steve Dibb
Stuart Herbert wrote: Besides, I'm sure we'll delay our own progress whilst we figure out how to make seeds work well ;-) I think folks are getting carried away here! Let's get stuff working first, eh? I think its also worth mentioning that the whole thing is also currently in *planning*

Re: [gentoo-dev] New project: Gentoo Seeds

2006-09-20 Thread Mike Frysinger
On Wednesday 20 September 2006 15:26, Andrew Gaffney wrote: That's not the issue. The issue is that there should *already* be a releng liason, but nobody from releng seems to know anything about this project. they havent even started releasing anything yet, they're just getting started why are

Re: [gentoo-dev] New project: Gentoo Seeds

2006-09-20 Thread Josh Saddler
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Andrew Gaffney wrote: That's not the issue. The issue is that there should *already* be a releng liason, but nobody from releng seems to know anything about this project. I dunno . . . does releng really need to be involved, except if these

Re: [gentoo-dev] New project: Gentoo Seeds

2006-09-20 Thread Donnie Berkholz
Stuart Herbert wrote: To delay progress, Chris will need to make a formal complaint to the Council. About what? Our own metastructure proposal explicitly says competing projects are allowed. There is no complaint, there's just attempts to convince each other that a formal hierarchy is

Re: [gentoo-dev] New project: Gentoo Seeds

2006-09-20 Thread Ciaran McCreesh
On Wed, 20 Sep 2006 20:27:50 +0100 Stuart Herbert [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: | I was hoping to avoid having to say this - actually I was hoping to | avoid this whole drama - but we _don't_ need releng's approval to do | this. To delay progress, Chris will need to make a formal complaint | to the

Re: [gentoo-dev] New project: Gentoo Seeds

2006-09-20 Thread Stuart Herbert
On 9/20/06, Danny van Dyk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Stuart, The pages are correct. Cool. He didn't called you a liar. You haven't spoken to anyone on the genkernel or catalyst development teams. - was in response to me saying that I had. It's difficult to interpret that as anything

Re: [gentoo-dev] New project: Gentoo Seeds

2006-09-20 Thread Stuart Herbert
On 9/20/06, Danny van Dyk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: As long as we have no package sets support in portage, I do indeed think that this is the best way to go. Didn't realize that you mentioned it, too. @Stuart: What do you think? Right now, I'm not too concerned about the lack of package set

Re: [gentoo-dev] New project: Gentoo Seeds

2006-09-20 Thread Mike Frysinger
On Wednesday 20 September 2006 16:27, Ciaran McCreesh wrote: On Wed, 20 Sep 2006 20:27:50 +0100 Stuart Herbert | I was hoping to avoid having to say this - actually I was hoping to | avoid this whole drama - but we _don't_ need releng's approval to do | this. To delay progress, Chris will

Re: [gentoo-dev] New project: Gentoo Seeds

2006-09-20 Thread Josh Saddler
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Ciaran McCreesh wrote: On Tue, 19 Sep 2006 20:00:59 +0100 Stuart Herbert [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: | I've created a new project, called Gentoo Seeds [1]. The aim of the | project is to create stage4 tarballs which can be used to 'seed' new |

Re: [gentoo-dev] New project: Gentoo Seeds

2006-09-20 Thread Jakub Moc
Ciaran McCreesh wrote: I was under the impression that you were supposed to GLEP anything of this scope and get council approval... The anyone can make a project rule doesn't replace the requirement to GLEP large changes. http://dev.gentoo.org/~chriswhite/xml_source/flame.xml - Code Listing

Re: [gentoo-dev] New project: Gentoo Seeds

2006-09-20 Thread Mike Frysinger
On Wednesday 20 September 2006 15:33, Ciaran McCreesh wrote: On Tue, 19 Sep 2006 20:00:59 +0100 Stuart Herbert [EMAIL PROTECTED] | I've created a new project, called Gentoo Seeds [1]. The aim of the | project is to create stage4 tarballs which can be used to 'seed' new | boxes with

Re: [gentoo-dev] New project: Gentoo Seeds

2006-09-20 Thread Ciaran McCreesh
On Wed, 20 Sep 2006 16:45:24 -0400 Seemant Kulleen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: | On Wed, 2006-09-20 at 20:33 +0100, Ciaran McCreesh wrote: | On Tue, 19 Sep 2006 20:00:59 +0100 Stuart Herbert | [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: | | I've created a new project, called Gentoo Seeds [1]. The aim of | | the

Re: [gentoo-dev] New project: Gentoo Seeds

2006-09-20 Thread Ciaran McCreesh
On Wed, 20 Sep 2006 22:41:11 +0200 Jakub Moc [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: | Ciaran McCreesh wrote: | I was under the impression that you were supposed to GLEP anything | of this scope and get council approval... The anyone can make a | project rule doesn't replace the requirement to GLEP large

Re: [gentoo-dev] New project: Gentoo Seeds

2006-09-20 Thread Chris White
On Wednesday 20 September 2006 13:27, Ciaran McCreesh wrote: I was under the impression that you were supposed to GLEP anything of this scope and get council approval... The anyone can make a project rule doesn't replace the requirement to GLEP large changes. Why? It's in an overlay so it's

Re: [gentoo-dev] New project: Gentoo Seeds

2006-09-20 Thread Michael Cummings
On Wed, 2006-09-20 at 21:27 +0100, Ciaran McCreesh wrote: On Wed, 20 Sep 2006 20:27:50 +0100 Stuart Herbert [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: | I was hoping to avoid having to say this - actually I was hoping to | avoid this whole drama - but we _don't_ need releng's approval to do | this. To delay

Re: [gentoo-dev] New project: Gentoo Seeds

2006-09-20 Thread Jakub Moc
Ciaran McCreesh wrote: On Wed, 20 Sep 2006 22:41:11 +0200 Jakub Moc [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: | Ciaran McCreesh wrote: | I was under the impression that you were supposed to GLEP anything | of this scope and get council approval... The anyone can make a | project rule doesn't replace the

Re: [gentoo-dev] New project: Gentoo Seeds

2006-09-20 Thread Ciaran McCreesh
On Wed, 20 Sep 2006 23:42:02 +0200 Jakub Moc [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: | Not that bugging people w/ pointless paperwork would contribute | anything useful to this new project or get any work done... What | exactly is there to GLEP at this point? A GLEP is not pointless paperwork if done correctly.

Re: [gentoo-dev] New project: Gentoo Seeds

2006-09-20 Thread Jakub Moc
Ciaran McCreesh wrote: On Wed, 20 Sep 2006 23:42:02 +0200 Jakub Moc [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: | Not that bugging people w/ pointless paperwork would contribute | anything useful to this new project or get any work done... What | exactly is there to GLEP at this point? A GLEP is not pointless

Re: [gentoo-dev] New project: Gentoo Seeds

2006-09-20 Thread Josh Saddler
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Ciaran McCreesh wrote: On Wed, 20 Sep 2006 23:42:02 +0200 Jakub Moc [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: | Not that bugging people w/ pointless paperwork would contribute | anything useful to this new project or get any work done... What | exactly is there to

Re: [gentoo-dev] New project: Gentoo Seeds

2006-09-20 Thread Danny van Dyk
Am Mittwoch, 20. September 2006 23:33 schrieb Chris White: On Wednesday 20 September 2006 13:27, Ciaran McCreesh wrote: I was under the impression that you were supposed to GLEP anything of this scope and get council approval... The anyone can make a project rule doesn't replace the

Re: [gentoo-dev] New project: Gentoo Seeds

2006-09-20 Thread Alec Warner
This whole thread is quite disappointing to me. Someone comes up with a new way to use Gentoo; to make it a viable tool for a job; to make it USEFUL. This is what we are about here (or were?). Put another way, the Gentoo philosophy is to create better tools.

Re: [gentoo-dev] New project: Gentoo Seeds

2006-09-20 Thread Ciaran McCreesh
On Wed, 20 Sep 2006 18:42:13 -0400 Alec Warner [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: | As Donnie said; if this is the thanks one gets for trying out a new | idea; then why try at all. The complaints are not that Stuart tried a new idea. Stop trying to spin things that way. The complaints are that he allegedly

Re: [gentoo-dev] New project: Gentoo Seeds

2006-09-20 Thread Mike Frysinger
On Wednesday 20 September 2006 18:53, Ciaran McCreesh wrote: The complaints are that he allegedly did it without consultation, and that he sprang this unexpectedly. he started a new project and he announced, whoopity do stop making a big deal over nothing -mike pgppKe9FuRp5z.pgp Description:

Re: [gentoo-dev] New project: Gentoo Seeds

2006-09-20 Thread Daniel Ostrow
On Wed, 2006-09-20 at 18:42 -0400, Alec Warner wrote: This whole thread is quite disappointing to me. Someone comes up with a new way to use Gentoo; to make it a viable tool for a job; to make it USEFUL. This is what we are about here (or were?). Put another way, the Gentoo philosophy is

Re: [gentoo-dev] New project: Gentoo Seeds

2006-09-20 Thread Luca Barbato
Stuart Herbert wrote: Hi, I've created a new project, called Gentoo Seeds [1]. The aim of the project is to create stage4 tarballs which can be used to 'seed' new boxes with ready-built Gentoo solutions. Interestingly enough releng was planning some stage4 support for the next release and

Re: [gentoo-dev] New project: Gentoo Seeds

2006-09-20 Thread Jakub Moc
Ciaran McCreesh wrote: On Wed, 20 Sep 2006 18:42:13 -0400 Alec Warner [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: | As Donnie said; if this is the thanks one gets for trying out a new | idea; then why try at all. The complaints are not that Stuart tried a new idea. Stop trying to spin things that way. The

Re: [gentoo-dev] New project: Gentoo Seeds

2006-09-20 Thread Seemant Kulleen
In that case, why don't we just consider Stuart's initial mail on this thing to *be* the effing announcement and be done with it? Fact is, no matter how something is brought up, there is a dependable group of people who will have something against it (oh fuck it, we know I'm referring to Ciaran

Re: [gentoo-dev] New project: Gentoo Seeds

2006-09-20 Thread Stephen Bennett
On Thu, 21 Sep 2006 01:29:58 +0200 Jakub Moc [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Oh noes! Someone had an unexpected and unconsulted idea that he wanted to share with others, shoot him!!!111! OMG, so much for inovation and progress... Sharing the idea and looking for consultation is one thing. Saying

Re: [gentoo-dev] New project: Gentoo Seeds

2006-09-20 Thread Josh Saddler
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Oh look, we just got Slashdotted by someone doing their level best to create a smear campaign, or at least to spread FUD: http://linux.slashdot.org/linux/06/09/20/2246231.shtml As I said on IRC, new project, new whiteboard. why don't we leave it up

Re: [gentoo-dev] New project: Gentoo Seeds

2006-09-20 Thread Mike Frysinger
On Wednesday 20 September 2006 19:50, Stephen Bennett wrote: Sharing the idea and looking for consultation is one thing. Saying Gentoo is now doing this, like it or not is quite another. funny, i dont recall him forcing anyone to help him -mike pgp1ZuNPbbA3B.pgp Description: PGP signature

Re: [gentoo-dev] New project: Gentoo Seeds

2006-09-20 Thread Stuart Herbert
On 9/21/06, Luca Barbato [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Could you please planning something about acting as liason between projects touched by seeds? E.G. random guy starts contributing a media seed, I'd like to be notified and maybe have also x11 people notified, just in case the seed overlay is

[gentoo-dev] New project: Gentoo Seeds

2006-09-19 Thread Stuart Herbert
Hi, I've created a new project, called Gentoo Seeds [1]. The aim of the project is to create stage4 tarballs which can be used to 'seed' new boxes with ready-built Gentoo solutions. At the moment, we're working on a basic LAMP Server (which is why we're hanging out in #gentoo-php), and talking

Re: Fw: [gentoo-dev] New project: Gentoo Seeds

2006-09-19 Thread Matthew Marlowe
I've created a new project, called Gentoo Seeds [1]. The aim of the project is to create stage4 tarballs which can be used to 'seed' new boxes with ready-built Gentoo solutions. Can we integrate this somehow with a project (new?) to build ready-to-use vmware or xen images? It would be

Re: Fw: [gentoo-dev] New project: Gentoo Seeds

2006-09-19 Thread Luca Barbato
Matthew Marlowe wrote: I would see the workflow proceed in the following manner: Releng herd makes available new official gentoo releases After a few weeks, the seeds herd takes releng product and creates new application/environment specific stage4 images Then, after

Re: Fw: [gentoo-dev] New project: Gentoo Seeds

2006-09-19 Thread Stuart Herbert
Hi Matt, On 9/19/06, Matthew Marlowe [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Can we integrate this somehow with a project (new?) to build ready-to-use vmware or xen images? It would be silly to duplicate the work, and testing would be much better this way. Sure. For the moment, we're focusing on getting

Re: [gentoo-dev] New project: Gentoo Seeds

2006-09-19 Thread Carsten Lohrke
First step should imho be, that you work with the Portage team on having proper set support implemented. Current meta ebuilds do suck, really. Carsten pgpY3uwbpcikw.pgp Description: PGP signature

Re: [gentoo-dev] New project: Gentoo Seeds

2006-09-19 Thread Daniel Ostrow
On Wed, 2006-09-20 at 00:56 +0200, Carsten Lohrke wrote: First step should imho be, that you work with the Portage team on having proper set support implemented. Current meta ebuilds do suck, really. No need for meta ebuilds...stage4 specs + catalyst. --Dan signature.asc Description: This

Re: [gentoo-dev] New project: Gentoo Seeds

2006-09-19 Thread Thomas Cort
On Tue, 19 Sep 2006 20:00:59 +0100 Stuart Herbert [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [1] http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/seeds/ Why is this being done as a top level project instead of as a subproject of Release Engineering? -Thomas pgpNbVfRl5I2l.pgp Description: PGP signature

Re: [gentoo-dev] New project: Gentoo Seeds

2006-09-19 Thread Mike Frysinger
On Tuesday 19 September 2006 19:32, Thomas Cort wrote: Stuart Herbert [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [1] http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/seeds/ Why is this being done as a top level project instead of as a subproject of Release Engineering? why does it need to be part of releng ? GNAP does