Re: [gentoo-dev] Portage news announcement review

2015-02-03 Thread Brian Dolbec
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On Tue, 3 Feb 2015 13:25:39 -0500
Rich Freeman  wrote:

> On Tue, Feb 3, 2015 at 11:36 AM, Brian Dolbec 
> wrote:
> >
> > You can't fix crap code to both keep the old crap handling while
> > still giving you new decent handling for the same config.
> >
> 
> I think that makes sense, and certainly many upstreams have made
> changes this large.
> 
> However, it does make sense to clean up the docs as much as possible,
> since this seems likely to have a pretty big impact on everybody.
> Layman isn't really an edge case.
> 
> Your wiki article is definitely getting closer to what we need.  A
> news article doesn't need to be a manpage - it is more important that
> users understand the impact to them, and what they need to do.
> 


OK, latest incarnation of the news item...

Changed:
   auto-sync = yes default

   shortened it up even more, partially as a result of the default
   change.

   re-added more info about the sync-depth option.

   with a3li's help, the wiki page is looking a lot better, is nearly
   complete.

   rich0 is going to add eix config migration instructions due to the
   new auto-sync = yes default. (which in my estimation will likely
   cause more grumbles for users than the few that emerge --sync may not
   work for without the config edit.)
- -- 
Brian Dolbec 

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Re: [gentoo-dev] Portage news announcement review

2015-02-03 Thread Brian Dolbec
On Tue, 3 Feb 2015 20:52:27 +0300
Diamond  wrote:

> On Tue, 3 Feb 2015 08:36:54 -0800
> Brian Dolbec  wrote:
> 
> > > 1. Why autosync is disabled by default? This broke current
> > > default for emerge --sync. And if users added overlays, they
> > > most definitely want them to by synced by default as well.
> > > So I propose to set auto-sync=yes by default.  
> > 
> > 
> > YES, due to lots of "the sky is falling" outcries, I
> > am changing the default to 'yes'.
> 
> What "auto-sync" actually stands for?

if:
auto-sync = true

It means enable the repo to be synced by an "emerge --sync" or 
"emaint sync --auto" command.  It is only for adding the ability to
select repos for syncing inclusion via emerge or emaint sync --auto

if:
[foo]
...
auto-sync = no


It means DO NOT automatically sync this repo until I explicitly tell it
to.  i.e.

"emaint sync --repo foo"


> Does it have something to do
> with "emerge --regen"? Do we need to change documentation about
> metadata cache too there?
> https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Overlay#Metadata_cache

No



> 
> Will it be interfere with 
> 
> # Sync all overlays
> *
> inside /etc/eix-sync.conf ?
> 

Yes, it will cause overlays to be synced twice in a row.  See my other
reply which explains it in detail.

-- 
Brian Dolbec 




Re: [gentoo-dev] Portage news announcement review

2015-02-03 Thread Rich Freeman
On Tue, Feb 3, 2015 at 11:36 AM, Brian Dolbec  wrote:
>
> You can't fix crap code to both keep the old crap handling while still
> giving you new decent handling for the same config.
>

I think that makes sense, and certainly many upstreams have made
changes this large.

However, it does make sense to clean up the docs as much as possible,
since this seems likely to have a pretty big impact on everybody.
Layman isn't really an edge case.

Your wiki article is definitely getting closer to what we need.  A
news article doesn't need to be a manpage - it is more important that
users understand the impact to them, and what they need to do.

-- 
Rich



Re: [gentoo-dev] Portage news announcement review

2015-02-03 Thread Diamond
On Tue, 3 Feb 2015 08:36:54 -0800
Brian Dolbec  wrote:

> > 1. Why autosync is disabled by default? This broke current
> > default for emerge --sync. And if users added overlays, they
> > most definitely want them to by synced by default as well.
> > So I propose to set auto-sync=yes by default.  
> 
> 
> YES, due to lots of "the sky is falling" outcries, I
> am changing the default to 'yes'.

What "auto-sync" actually stands for? Does it have something to do with
"emerge --regen"? Do we need to change documentation about metadata
cache too there?
https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Overlay#Metadata_cache

Will it be interfere with 

# Sync all overlays
*
inside /etc/eix-sync.conf ?



Re: [gentoo-dev] Portage news announcement review

2015-02-03 Thread Brian Dolbec
On Tue, 3 Feb 2015 18:01:21 +0300
Andrew Savchenko  wrote:

> On Tue, 3 Feb 2015 17:37:49 +0300 Andrew Savchenko wrote:
> 
> 4. I don't fully understand how new plugin system is supposed to
> interact with layman.
> 
> I far as I can see, the global goal is to replace layman by new
> sync system: it already supports git and svn, which covers most of
> overlays. For more exotic ones there is a laymanator sync-type.
> 
> If I'm right in my guess above, a question arises: how users should
> maintain overlays via sync plugins then? Right now layman is very
> convenient in adding and removing overlays: user needs only to
> provide overlay name and have a nice list of overlays available.
> With sync-plugins approach one have to enter all sync-uri paths
> manually, which is annoying at least, irritating at last, since
> many parameters have to be entered manually: location, sync-type,
> sync-uri, auto-sync. Is there any tool to manage this stuff in a
> friendly way?
> 
> Best regards,
> Andrew Savchenko


NO, this new code does not, nor was it intended to  __REPLACE__
layman.  It is actually the opposite.  

The old sync code could handle rsync, git, cvs.  It was a cludge mess
of difficult to deal with code.  There were also numerous requests to
merge layman into portage. For portage to be able to handle all repo
types,...

This new plug-in system makes it easy to create and install new
modules, or for other packages to install custom sync modules (AKA
layman and it's laymanator module)  which will let emerge, or more
precisely, emaint sync layman overalys using layman through it's
laymanator module.

The new emaint sync module was modelled after layman's sync functioning.

After all "I am also layman's lead developer", I was the one that had
Devan  create the laymanator module for portage as well as
other improvements.  This was all done as part of his GSOC 2014 project.

Layman's commands are still used to install, remove overlays.  The new
sync does not remove layman's sync capability, just gives it an
alternative interface, simplfying daily/weekly/monthly/... syncing.

Recent layman versions are also fully capable of repos.conf style
configs and does not require the old make.conf style configuration.  It
is capable of both types simultaneously, and of migrating from
make.conf style to repos.conf style with only a few steps on the users
part.  See the wiki page [1] for more detailed migration instructions.

https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Project:Portage/Sync

-- 
Brian Dolbec 



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Re: [gentoo-dev] Portage news announcement review

2015-02-03 Thread Brian Dolbec
On Tue, 3 Feb 2015 17:37:49 +0300
Andrew Savchenko  wrote:

> On Mon, 2 Feb 2015 16:54:37 -0800 Brian Dolbec wrote:
> > Attached is an updated news item.
> [...]
> 
> > Changes:  /etc/portage/repos.conf/*
> > New for all repository types (needed):
> > auto-sync = yes/no, true/false  # default if absent:
> > no/false
> 
> 1. Why autosync is disabled by default? This broke current
> default for emerge --sync. And if users added overlays, they
> most definitely want them to by synced by default as well.
> So I propose to set auto-sync=yes by default.


YES, due to lots of "the sky is falling" outcries, I
am changing the default to 'yes'.


> 
> 2. Why not to keep compatibility with current layman and
> local repositories? On some systems I have about dozen of
> overlays and I bet most users too. Give people time to adapt
> their setups for new changes, e.g. keep support for old
> configs and behaviour for at least several minor version bumps.
> 

You can't fix crap code to both keep the old crap handling while still
giving you new decent handling for the same config.


> 3. I suppose eix-sync will be completely broken with
> portage-2.2.16? That's nuts. Really. Give developers time to
> adapt their software for new API. Be compatible, at least for
> a while.
> 

Another 100% INCORRECT, it does not break eix-sync, eix-sync can be
configured to sync layman overlays or not sync them.  The new portage
sync system also makes emerge capable of syncing layman overlays.

Just configure 1 or the other to do the syncing.  There is no new API to
adapt to for eix.  Actually, the new sync code actually creates a
usable API for external apps to use. 

But due to the first complaint, with auto-sync defaulted to yes, emerge
will now sync everything by default.  So unless you edit either the
repos.conf files or eix's config, syncing will be done twice in a row
for many users for many of their installed repos.

The alternative, don't upgrade portage, don't edit anything.

> Best regards,
> Andrew Savchenko



-- 
Brian Dolbec 



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Re: [gentoo-dev] Portage news announcement review

2015-02-03 Thread Andrew Savchenko
On Tue, 3 Feb 2015 17:37:49 +0300 Andrew Savchenko wrote:
> On Mon, 2 Feb 2015 16:54:37 -0800 Brian Dolbec wrote:
> > Attached is an updated news item.
> [...]
> 
> > Changes:  /etc/portage/repos.conf/*
> > New for all repository types (needed):
> > auto-sync = yes/no, true/false  # default if absent: no/false
> 
> 1. Why autosync is disabled by default? This broke current
> default for emerge --sync. And if users added overlays, they
> most definitely want them to by synced by default as well.
> So I propose to set auto-sync=yes by default.
> 
> 2. Why not to keep compatibility with current layman and
> local repositories? On some systems I have about dozen of
> overlays and I bet most users too. Give people time to adapt

s/most/many/

> their setups for new changes, e.g. keep support for old
> configs and behaviour for at least several minor version bumps.
> 
> 3. I suppose eix-sync will be completely broken with
> portage-2.2.16? That's nuts. Really. Give developers time to
> adapt their software for new API. Be compatible, at least for
> a while.

4. I don't fully understand how new plugin system is supposed to
interact with layman.

I far as I can see, the global goal is to replace layman by new
sync system: it already supports git and svn, which covers most of
overlays. For more exotic ones there is a laymanator sync-type.

If I'm right in my guess above, a question arises: how users should
maintain overlays via sync plugins then? Right now layman is very
convenient in adding and removing overlays: user needs only to
provide overlay name and have a nice list of overlays available.
With sync-plugins approach one have to enter all sync-uri paths
manually, which is annoying at least, irritating at last, since
many parameters have to be entered manually: location, sync-type,
sync-uri, auto-sync. Is there any tool to manage this stuff in a
friendly way?

Best regards,
Andrew Savchenko


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Re: [gentoo-dev] Portage news announcement review

2015-02-03 Thread Andrew Savchenko
On Mon, 2 Feb 2015 16:54:37 -0800 Brian Dolbec wrote:
> Attached is an updated news item.
[...]

> Changes:  /etc/portage/repos.conf/*
> New for all repository types (needed):
> auto-sync = yes/no, true/false  # default if absent: no/false

1. Why autosync is disabled by default? This broke current
default for emerge --sync. And if users added overlays, they
most definitely want them to by synced by default as well.
So I propose to set auto-sync=yes by default.

2. Why not to keep compatibility with current layman and
local repositories? On some systems I have about dozen of
overlays and I bet most users too. Give people time to adapt
their setups for new changes, e.g. keep support for old
configs and behaviour for at least several minor version bumps.

3. I suppose eix-sync will be completely broken with
portage-2.2.16? That's nuts. Really. Give developers time to
adapt their software for new API. Be compatible, at least for
a while.

Best regards,
Andrew Savchenko


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Re: [gentoo-dev] Portage news announcement review

2015-02-03 Thread Ulrich Mueller
> On Tue, 3 Feb 2015, Brian Dolbec wrote:

> New for git sync-type:
> sync-depth = n  where n = {0,1,2,3,...} (optional, default = 1)

What do these values mean? You should either explain them, or don't
mention them at all. Especially, it is not obvious what the value 0
signifies (git {clone,pull} --depth=0 results in a fatal error).

> Primary control of all sync operations has been moved from emerge to
> emaint.  "emerge --sync" now just calls the emaint sync module with the
> --auto option.  The --auto option performs a sync on only those
> repositories with the auto-sync setting set to 'yes' or 'true'.  If it
> is absent, then emerge --sync will not sync the repositorie(s).

As I read this paragraph, it seems to imply that "emerge --sync" won't
sync the Portage tree any more, unless users will manually update
their configuration?

Changing the default behaviour for a command that was constant for
more than a decade and that virtually all our users use shouldn't be
done lightly.

> The 'emaint sync' module operates similar to layman.  It can sync
> single or multiple repos.  See ""emaint --help" or for more details and
> examples see the wiki page listed below.

There is an extra quotation mark in the second line.

Ulrich


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Re: [gentoo-dev] Portage news announcement review

2015-02-03 Thread Brian Dolbec
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On Mon, 2 Feb 2015 16:54:37 -0800
Brian Dolbec  wrote:

> > On 02.02.2015 22:58, Brian Dolbec wrote:
> > > 
> > > sys-apps/portage-2.2.16 is ready for release and is just waiting
> > > for the news announcement about the new plug-in sync system being
> > > used and the changes in it's operation.
> > > 
> 
> Attached is an updated news item.
> 
> changes: 
> - replaced 3rd party with third party
> - re-wrapped text at 72 columns (was at 80) (ulm on irc)
> - Added missed info for native postsync.d and repo.postsync.d
> hooks
> - Minor editing to improve clarity, reduce length
> - Added Migration section.  (rich0)
> 
> - -- 
> Brian Dolbec 
> 
>

After more comments, edits, explaining things better, etc., etc. it was
too long. I've trimmed it down about as brief as I can get it, but still
cover the main points.

I've also spent a good deal of time creating detailed explanations,
descriptions of the changes in the wiki page listed at the end of the
news item.  So hopefully the best of both worlds...

P.S. if someone wants to make the wiki page prettier, go ahead :)
I don't want to spend more time on this news item and wiki page than it
took me to do the initial coding to a working (but rough) plug-in sync
system and rsync module.
- -- 
Brian Dolbec 

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Re: [gentoo-dev] Portage news announcement review

2015-02-02 Thread Brian Dolbec
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On Mon, 02 Feb 2015 23:21:53 +0100
Manuel Rüger  wrote:

> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA512
> 
> On 02.02.2015 22:58, Brian Dolbec wrote:
> > 
> > sys-apps/portage-2.2.16 is ready for release and is just waiting
> > for the news announcement about the new plug-in sync system being
> > used and the changes in it's operation.
> > 
> > Attached is the news announcement for review.
> > 
> > 
> Please replace "3rd party" with "third party" to increase readability.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Manuel

Done.

Attached is an updated news item.

changes: 
- replaced 3rd party with third party
- re-wrapped text at 72 columns (was at 80) (ulm on irc)
- Added missed info for native postsync.d and repo.postsync.d hooks
- Minor editing to improve clarity, reduce length
- Added Migration section.  (rich0)

- -- 
Brian Dolbec 

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Re: [gentoo-dev] Portage news announcement review

2015-02-02 Thread Joseph Booker
Note: not a Gentoo dev, just a confused user

On Mon, Feb 2, 2015 at 7:44 PM, Brian Dolbec  wrote:

> Note:
>If you have default portage settings for location, sync-type then
>it should use the backup defaults and sync the gentoo repo still.
>


What are the 'backup defaults'?
Are you using 'for location, sync-type' as a shorthand for 'for location
and sync-type'?
I'm confused if 'and sync the gentoo repo still' is a mistake or if you
mean 'and still sync the gentoo repo' (I think dropping the 'still'
completely is more clear)


Re: [gentoo-dev] Portage news announcement review

2015-02-02 Thread Brian Dolbec
On Mon, 2 Feb 2015 19:24:38 -0500
Rich Freeman  wrote:

> On Mon, Feb 2, 2015 at 4:58 PM, Brian Dolbec 
> wrote:
> >
> > sys-apps/portage-2.2.16 is ready for release and is just waiting
> > for the news announcement about the new plug-in sync system being
> > used and the changes in it's operation.
> >
> > Attached is the news announcement for review.
> 
> You might want to give specific instructions on how to migrate.  If
> somebody just uses /usr/portage without anything fancy, do they have
> to do anything?  How about if they have 15 layman repos installed
> using layman -a?  What if they have a local overlay?
> 
> If the answer is that everything that used to work still works, it
> might not hurt to just say that.
> 
> --
> Rich
> 

I can and partially did already.

quote:
  
Operation:
Primary control of all sync operations has been moved from emerge to
emaint.  "emerge --sync" now just calls the emaint sync module with
the --auto option.  This --auto option performs a sync on only those
repositories with the auto-sync setting set to 'yes' or 'true'.
If it is absent, then emerge --sync may not sync anything.

Note:
   If you have default portage settings for location, sync-type then
   it should use the backup defaults and sync the gentoo repo still.


I'll add the bit for layman overlays, but with the changes suggested
here and irc it is at 100 lines now.  I'll keep it short.

P.S. caught me just in time, I was about to send the updated version.

-- 
Brian Dolbec 




Re: [gentoo-dev] Portage news announcement review

2015-02-02 Thread Rich Freeman
On Mon, Feb 2, 2015 at 4:58 PM, Brian Dolbec  wrote:
>
> sys-apps/portage-2.2.16 is ready for release and is just waiting for the
> news announcement about the new plug-in sync system being used and the
> changes in it's operation.
>
> Attached is the news announcement for review.

You might want to give specific instructions on how to migrate.  If
somebody just uses /usr/portage without anything fancy, do they have
to do anything?  How about if they have 15 layman repos installed
using layman -a?  What if they have a local overlay?

If the answer is that everything that used to work still works, it
might not hurt to just say that.

--
Rich



Re: [gentoo-dev] Portage news announcement review

2015-02-02 Thread Manuel Rüger
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On 02.02.2015 22:58, Brian Dolbec wrote:
> 
> sys-apps/portage-2.2.16 is ready for release and is just waiting
> for the news announcement about the new plug-in sync system being
> used and the changes in it's operation.
> 
> Attached is the news announcement for review.
> 
> 
Please replace "3rd party" with "third party" to increase readability.

Cheers,

Manuel
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[gentoo-dev] Portage news announcement review

2015-02-02 Thread Brian Dolbec
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sys-apps/portage-2.2.16 is ready for release and is just waiting for the
news announcement about the new plug-in sync system being used and the
changes in it's operation.

Attached is the news announcement for review.

- -- 
Brian Dolbec 

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sync.news
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