Re: [gentoo-dev] introspection use flag
On Saturday 07 of May 2011 01:18:57 Nirbheek Chauhan wrote:
On Fri, May 6, 2011 at 11:34 PM, Maciej Mrozowski reave...@gmail.com
wrote:
On Friday 06 of May 2011 15:18:20 Marijn wrote:
And what happened to the proposed description:
introspection: Add gobject-introspection support, allowing for the
dynamic generation of bindings for various languages
No.
http://www.mail-archive.com/gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org/msg40069.html
It's things like this that convinced us that there's no real advantage
in having it as a global use-flag. Maybe 3 years later when there is
*still* nothing else in the tree that uses introspection besides
gobject-introspection, we'll revisit this and finally make it a global
use-flag.
Nirbheek... and what's particularly wrong with 'introspection' global USE flag
having implementation-agnostic Enable runtime API introspection description?
Nobody sees anything wrong with overly vague 'xml' global USE flag and my
proposition isn't worse ('Add support for XML files' ... you mean what
support? import/export or just expat vs libxml2?)
--
regards
MM
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Re: [gentoo-dev] introspection use flag
On Mon, May 9, 2011 at 2:18 AM, Maciej Mrozowski reave...@gmail.com wrote:
On Saturday 07 of May 2011 01:18:57 Nirbheek Chauhan wrote:
On Fri, May 6, 2011 at 11:34 PM, Maciej Mrozowski reave...@gmail.com
wrote:
On Friday 06 of May 2011 15:18:20 Marijn wrote:
And what happened to the proposed description:
introspection: Add gobject-introspection support, allowing for the
dynamic generation of bindings for various languages
No.
http://www.mail-archive.com/gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org/msg40069.html
It's things like this that convinced us that there's no real advantage
in having it as a global use-flag. Maybe 3 years later when there is
*still* nothing else in the tree that uses introspection besides
gobject-introspection, we'll revisit this and finally make it a global
use-flag.
Nirbheek... and what's particularly wrong with 'introspection' global USE flag
having implementation-agnostic Enable runtime API introspection description?
The reasoning I had in mind was as follows:
* I prefer use-flag descriptions to give the required information to
the user as far as possible in one sentence (or two if necessary).
* metadata.xml must be used for this if the global use-flag
description is too generic.
Following these two, it would mean that the global USE-flag
description you are proposing would be too generic, and would require
local use-flag descriptions for all the current uses of
USE=introspection in the tree. This would not change the status quo.
This will of course change if/when some other tool comes up which does
a similar job, and is toggleable in a similar way. One of our
proposals (back then) was that we add the specific description now,
and switch over to the generic one when that situation comes to be.
However, that was rejected, and we ended up going with the local
use-flag descriptions.
At this point, adding a global use-flag with that generic description
would only mean that some packages (whose maintainers are a bit lazy)
will have inconsistent use-flag descriptions, which will cause
confusion to users.
So, I see no point adding a generic global use-flag description right
now. It can either be added when another such tool comes up, or the
current description can be made global when it looks like
gobject-introspection will be the only such tool.
PS: Apologies if I sounded harsh in my earlier mail. I felt like I was
reliving the old discussion, and it sort of heated me up.
Nobody sees anything wrong with overly vague 'xml' global USE flag and my
proposition isn't worse ('Add support for XML files' ... you mean what
support? import/export or just expat vs libxml2?)
--
regards
MM
--
~Nirbheek Chauhan
Gentoo GNOME+Mozilla Team
[gentoo-dev] introspection use flag
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Dear all, I was just looking into the meaning of the introspection use-flag and there are many ebuilds that use it so perhaps it should be globalized, which would also give us a chance to improve the naming/description. Current descriptions are: Use dev-libs/gobject-introspection for introspection Enable GObject introspection. Currently it is hard to tell which functionality is enabled through this flag and the meaning of the descriptions for when the flag is off are even more unclear. Does it mean that introspection will not be used or will some other way of introspection be used? Either way, perhaps the people in the know could shed some light on this issue? Thanks, Marijn -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.17 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk3DtAYACgkQp/VmCx0OL2xtgwCfaHiq5xVxQ5w6XOlGqpYVvPMa jLwAn3m51MltrAz7k6QU5v6IuCv5vGHy =9rX7 -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: [gentoo-dev] introspection use flag
Le vendredi 06 mai 2011 à 10:40 +0200, Marijn a écrit : -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Dear all, I was just looking into the meaning of the introspection use-flag and there are many ebuilds that use it so perhaps it should be globalized, which would also give us a chance to improve the naming/description. Current descriptions are: Use dev-libs/gobject-introspection for introspection Enable GObject introspection. Currently it is hard to tell which functionality is enabled through this flag and the meaning of the descriptions for when the flag is off are even more unclear. Does it mean that introspection will not be used or will some other way of introspection be used? Either way, perhaps the people in the know could shed some light on this issue? Thanks, Marijn See original thread on this mailing list: From: Arun Raghavan ford_pref...@gentoo.org Subject:[gentoo-dev] New global USE flag: introspection Date: Sun, 20 Jun 2010 20:12:58 +0530 (20/06/2010 16:42:58) Message-ID: aanlktimjjigw6k5vqcx-wryeyy_fputqprn7jmw4x...@mail.gmail.com -- Gilles Dartiguelongue e...@gentoo.org Gentoo
Re: [gentoo-dev] introspection use flag
On Fri, May 6, 2011 at 2:10 PM, Marijn hk...@gentoo.org wrote: Current descriptions are: Use dev-libs/gobject-introspection for introspection Enable GObject introspection. Currently it is hard to tell which functionality is enabled through this flag and the meaning of the descriptions for when the flag is off are even more unclear. Does it mean that introspection will not be used or will some other way of introspection be used? Either way, perhaps the people in the know could shed some light on this issue? All uses of this USE-flag are identical, and mean that Introspection girs and typelibs will be built using gobject-introspection for usage with bindings, etc. If the use-flag is off, this data is not built. -- ~Nirbheek Chauhan Gentoo GNOME+Mozilla Team
Re: [gentoo-dev] introspection use flag
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 05/06/11 14:25, Gilles Dartiguelongue wrote: Le vendredi 06 mai 2011 à 10:40 +0200, Marijn a écrit : -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Dear all, I was just looking into the meaning of the introspection use-flag and there are many ebuilds that use it so perhaps it should be globalized, which would also give us a chance to improve the naming/description. Current descriptions are: Use dev-libs/gobject-introspection for introspection Enable GObject introspection. Currently it is hard to tell which functionality is enabled through this flag and the meaning of the descriptions for when the flag is off are even more unclear. Does it mean that introspection will not be used or will some other way of introspection be used? Either way, perhaps the people in the know could shed some light on this issue? Thanks, Marijn See original thread on this mailing list: From: Arun Raghavan ford_pref...@gentoo.org Subject: [gentoo-dev] New global USE flag: introspection Date: Sun, 20 Jun 2010 20:12:58 +0530 (20/06/2010 16:42:58) Message-ID: aanlktimjjigw6k5vqcx-wryeyy_fputqprn7jmw4x...@mail.gmail.com Thanks for the pointer![1] Having just read that discussion it seems that even back then many developers found that the name introspection is too broad/imprecise. Several alternatives were proposed, like gintrospection, gobject-introspection, gir, api-introspection. I think any of these would have been better than the current name. And what happened to the proposed description: introspection: Add gobject-introspection support, allowing for the dynamic generation of bindings for various languages which at least contains a hint of what the purpose is of this flag? But maybe someone can do even better than that now that this technology has been in use for a while? Marijn [1]:http://marc.info/?l=gentoo-devm=127704501818312w=2 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.17 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk3D9RwACgkQp/VmCx0OL2wFYwCffN8xniGaK1ExXCsi90hPX3pJ SlkAn3yScPxj88ttiycYABe36ZVaJ46g =kd6G -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: [gentoo-dev] introspection use flag
Le vendredi 06 mai 2011 à 15:18 +0200, Marijn a écrit : -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 05/06/11 14:25, Gilles Dartiguelongue wrote: Le vendredi 06 mai 2011 à 10:40 +0200, Marijn a écrit : -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Dear all, I was just looking into the meaning of the introspection use-flag and there are many ebuilds that use it so perhaps it should be globalized, which would also give us a chance to improve the naming/description. Current descriptions are: Use dev-libs/gobject-introspection for introspection Enable GObject introspection. Currently it is hard to tell which functionality is enabled through this flag and the meaning of the descriptions for when the flag is off are even more unclear. Does it mean that introspection will not be used or will some other way of introspection be used? Either way, perhaps the people in the know could shed some light on this issue? Thanks, Marijn See original thread on this mailing list: From: Arun Raghavan ford_pref...@gentoo.org Subject:[gentoo-dev] New global USE flag: introspection Date: Sun, 20 Jun 2010 20:12:58 +0530 (20/06/2010 16:42:58) Message-ID: aanlktimjjigw6k5vqcx-wryeyy_fputqprn7jmw4x...@mail.gmail.com Thanks for the pointer![1] Having just read that discussion it seems that even back then many developers found that the name introspection is too broad/imprecise. Several alternatives were proposed, like gintrospection, gobject-introspection, gir, api-introspection. I think any of these would have been better than the current name. The gnome team agreed to disagree. There is no point in renaming a flag that is widely used across gnome packages for a single common purpose and not anywhere else in the tree. All alternatives are based on a what-if but months later, what-ifs are still nowhere to be found. And what happened to the proposed description: introspection: Add gobject-introspection support, allowing for the dynamic generation of bindings for various languages which at least contains a hint of what the purpose is of this flag? But maybe someone can do even better than that now that this technology has been in use for a while? That can be applied, it would of course be easier to manage if the flag was global. -- Gilles Dartiguelongue e...@gentoo.org Gentoo
Re: [gentoo-dev] introspection use flag
On Friday 06 of May 2011 15:18:20 Marijn wrote: On 05/06/11 14:25, Gilles Dartiguelongue wrote: Le vendredi 06 mai 2011 à 10:40 +0200, Marijn a écrit : -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Dear all, I was just looking into the meaning of the introspection use-flag and there are many ebuilds that use it so perhaps it should be globalized, which would also give us a chance to improve the naming/description. Current descriptions are: Use dev-libs/gobject-introspection for introspection Enable GObject introspection. Currently it is hard to tell which functionality is enabled through this flag and the meaning of the descriptions for when the flag is off are even more unclear. Does it mean that introspection will not be used or will some other way of introspection be used? Either way, perhaps the people in the know could shed some light on this issue? Thanks, Marijn See original thread on this mailing list: From: Arun Raghavan ford_pref...@gentoo.org Subject:[gentoo-dev] New global USE flag: introspection Date: Sun, 20 Jun 2010 20:12:58 +0530 (20/06/2010 16:42:58) Message-ID: aanlktimjjigw6k5vqcx-wryeyy_fputqprn7jmw4x...@mail.gmail.com Thanks for the pointer![1] Having just read that discussion it seems that even back then many developers found that the name introspection is too broad/imprecise. Several alternatives were proposed, like gintrospection, gobject-introspection, gir, api-introspection. I think any of these would have been better than the current name. And what happened to the proposed description: introspection: Add gobject-introspection support, allowing for the dynamic generation of bindings for various languages No. http://www.mail-archive.com/gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org/msg40069.html which at least contains a hint of what the purpose is of this flag? But maybe someone can do even better than that now that this technology has been in use for a while? Marijn [1]:http://marc.info/?l=gentoo-devm=127704501818312w=2 -- regards MM signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: [gentoo-dev] introspection use flag
On Fri, May 6, 2011 at 11:34 PM, Maciej Mrozowski reave...@gmail.com wrote: On Friday 06 of May 2011 15:18:20 Marijn wrote: And what happened to the proposed description: introspection: Add gobject-introspection support, allowing for the dynamic generation of bindings for various languages No. http://www.mail-archive.com/gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org/msg40069.html It's things like this that convinced us that there's no real advantage in having it as a global use-flag. Maybe 3 years later when there is *still* nothing else in the tree that uses introspection besides gobject-introspection, we'll revisit this and finally make it a global use-flag. -- ~Nirbheek Chauhan Gentoo GNOME+Mozilla Team
