Re: [gentoo-dev] Nominations for council
On Thu, 5 Jun 2008 22:41:40 +0300 Samuli Suominen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Tue, 3 Jun 2008 05:52:35 + > Ferris McCormick <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> kirjoitti: > > > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > > Hash: SHA1 > > > > > > I think nominations are open. I nominate > > Then I'd like to nominate (mostly same ones again) [..] > aballier Thanks, but I decline. Considering all the nominee, I think there are enough people probably more able than I am to run a council. My habit of not getting involved in endless discussions would have probably not helped to get elected anyway ;) Moreover, with all the recent threads here, I don't think I want to be in the group that will have to take the decisions. Regards, Alexis. signature.asc Description: PGP signature
RE: [gentoo-dev] Nominations for council
> >> Except you'd rather veto the ones you don't like. Hehe... It must > >> suck being > >> you, wanting to veto people and not being able to do it :) > > > > I trust the masses to do the sensible thing and not vote for people > > who'd be bad for the project. Hopefully that means we get the Council > > from last year, with one or two new faces? > > Hopefully everyone would be 'new' and only a couple of people (if not > less) repeat. This council hasn't really done anything right. I think we are losing site of the point here, that being council nominations and soliciting those nominees for their views on matters that any of us find relevant. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but how we share those opinions is a privilege not a right. Read: insults, attacks, and abrasive behavior are not acceptable and DevRel will not tolerate this. I encourage someone to talk about what they feel the next council could do better, or even list examples where they feel our current council went wrong, in their eyes; but do so in a manner that provokes civil discussion so we may all be the better for it. Kind regards, Christina Fullam Gentoo Developer Relations Lead | Gentoo Public Relations -- gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] Nominations for council
On 8 Jun 2008, at 14:34, Alex Howells wrote: 2008/6/7 Fernando J. Pereda <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: Except you'd rather veto the ones you don't like. Hehe... It must suck being you, wanting to veto people and not being able to do it :) I trust the masses to do the sensible thing and not vote for people who'd be bad for the project. Hopefully that means we get the Council from last year, with one or two new faces? Hopefully everyone would be 'new' and only a couple of people (if not less) repeat. This council hasn't really done anything right. - ferdy -- gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] Nominations for council
2008/6/7 Fernando J. Pereda <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > Except you'd rather veto the ones you don't like. Hehe... It must suck being > you, wanting to veto people and not being able to do it :) I trust the masses to do the sensible thing and not vote for people who'd be bad for the project. Hopefully that means we get the Council from last year, with one or two new faces? -- gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] Nominations for council
On 7 Jun 2008, at 21:21, Alex Howells wrote: 2008/6/7 Santiago M. Mola <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: ferdy, thanks for the nomination. astinus, thanks for your support and inspiration, which almost convinced me for running for Council. Any time :) In which case I guess maybe Jeroen Roovers (rej / jer) wants that spot on the ticket? ;) I'd like to nominate him too. Looks like we'll have plenty of choice this time around, which can only be a good thing. Except you'd rather veto the ones you don't like. Hehe... It must suck being you, wanting to veto people and not being able to do it :) - ferdy -- gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] Nominations for council
On Sat, 7 Jun 2008 20:21:11 +0100 "Alex Howells" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Any time :) In which case I guess maybe Jeroen Roovers (rej / jer) > wants that spot on the ticket? ;) I'd like to nominate him too. > Looks like we'll have plenty of choice this time around, which can > only be a good thing. Er, I accept. Thanks. Kind regards, JeR -- gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] Nominations for council
2008/6/7 Santiago M. Mola <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > > ferdy, thanks for the nomination. > > astinus, thanks for your support and inspiration, which almost > convinced me for running for Council. Any time :) In which case I guess maybe Jeroen Roovers (rej / jer) wants that spot on the ticket? ;) I'd like to nominate him too. Looks like we'll have plenty of choice this time around, which can only be a good thing. Alex -- gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] Nominations for council
On Thu, Jun 5, 2008 at 9:44 AM, Fernando J. Pereda <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I'd like to nominate: > > ColdWind > ferdy, thanks for the nomination. astinus, thanks for your support and inspiration, which almost convinced me for running for Council. I decline. Regards, -- Santiago M. Mola Jabber ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] Nominations for council
William L. Thomson Jr. wrote: On Tue, 2008-06-03 at 18:17 +0100, Ciaran McCreesh wrote: On Tue, 3 Jun 2008 19:11:44 +0200 Jeroen Roovers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Also, I would have thought there was a requirement to have been a developer for at least a year, just like we require mentors to have been a developer for six months. Thoughts? You're confusing Foundation and Council rules. For the Council, there aren't any restrictions on who can nominate or who can run -- GLEP 39 doesn't even include the restriction on only nominating developers. IMHO the Council should be written into the Foundation Bylaws. Replacing and deprecating GLEP 39. Which one of the first things wrt to the Council that would be mentioned in the Bylaws is the Council has full authority and veto power over the project. That means the board nor officers can dictate to the Council. Council remains on top of it all. Just legally declared, and with other rules, regulations, etc, stipulated in detail. Unlike GLEP 39 Put in a legal document, giving the Council legal power. Not just power per some GLEP or other unofficial doc, being used for a purpose other than it's intention. Much less make it easier to see and understand the structure of Gentoo to an outsider. The Gentoo Foundation and the Gentoo Council are two different entities. For further reference please refer to the FreeBSD Foundation and the FreeBSD Project. What you're implying is that the Gentoo Foundation is over/owns the Gentoo Council. Which is completely and categorically wrong. -- gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] Nominations for council
Tue, 3 Jun 2008 05:52:35 + Ferris McCormick <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> kirjoitti: > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > Hash: SHA1 > > > I think nominations are open. I nominate Then I'd like to nominate (mostly same ones again) flameeyes vapier dberkholz aballier ingmar -- gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] Nominations for council
2008/6/4 Donnie Berkholz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > On 12:07 Tue 03 Jun , Łukasz Damentko wrote: >> Nominations aren't open yet. They will be soon (rather days than >> weeks). But not yet. I have no idea why you guys rushed it but you >> will have nominate again after we open if for real. > > That sounds like pointless bureaucracy ... is there any reason? > > Thanks, > Donnie > -- > gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org mailing list > > You are right. We've decided to accept those nominations that were filed prior to us officially opening the process. To fullfill formality, I will just renominate everybody who was nominated too early: So, I (re-)nominate: welp zlin Ingmar ColdWind and ... myself, since I was nominated too. And I officially decline to run in this election. Regards, Łukasz Damentko
Re: [gentoo-dev] Nominations for council
William L. Thomson Jr. wrote: On Tue, 2008-06-03 at 11:31 +0100, George Prowse wrote: Alex Howells wrote: 2008/6/3 George Prowse <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: Thirded Someone can clarify but don't you need to be a Foundation member to nominate or support nominations? Either way, all of the current Council get my nomination, plus welp gets a second. Anyone can nominate but only members get a vote. Foundation members, and Gentoo Developers are not the same. I do not believe Council elections have anything at all to do with the Foundation. Sorry, my bad. I presumed he was talking about the council -- gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] Nominations for council
On 3 Jun 2008, at 07:52, Ferris McCormick wrote: I think nominations are open. I'd like to nominate: Ingmar ColdWind - ferdy -- gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] Nominations for council
Speaking more officially, less personal opinion. On Wed, 2008-06-04 at 18:49 -0400, Richard Freeman wrote: > > Would this run into any kinds of legal issues? Should prevent any. > If you're not > already familiar with such things you might want to talk to a lawyer. As it pertains we will likely have counsel review the final Bylaws. We will also solicit advice from counsel when needed regarding future Bylaws revisions or other matters. > I'm torn on this. In theory the council and trustees/foundation should > be well-coordinated and they're really just two parts of a single > effort. That's the idea. Two heads, thinking doing different things uncoordinated on same body? :) > If we mix them we either need to formalize more of > what happens, or potentially risk running into legal issues. Really it's a paper formality. Daily operations do not change. Just clarification of duties and separation on paper. In one document :) -- William L. Thomson Jr. amd64/Java/Trustees Gentoo Foundation signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: [gentoo-dev] Nominations for council
William L. Thomson Jr. wrote: Which one of the first things wrt to the Council that would be mentioned in the Bylaws is the Council has full authority and veto power over the project. That means the board nor officers can dictate to the Council. Council remains on top of it all. Just legally declared, and with other rules, regulations, etc, stipulated in detail. Would this run into any kinds of legal issues? Essentially you're creating a non-profit corporation whose governance is subject to what is effectively a board of directors that is very loosely defined/ elected/ etc. I'd think that this would run into issues legally, but I suppose that being a non-public company it might not be an issue. If you're not already familiar with such things you might want to talk to a lawyer. I'm torn on this. In theory the council and trustees/foundation should be well-coordinated and they're really just two parts of a single effort. However, for legal reasons the money-handling parts of the distro are subject to a lot of controls that need not apply to everything else. If we mix them we either need to formalize more of what happens, or potentially risk running into legal issues. If a lawyer doesn't see this as a problem then just disregard everything above. A little more formality might not kill the project, but on the other hand we don't want to create too many barriers to council members who are volunteers. In a more significant corporation like the Red Cross I suspect that board members would be paid to attend meetings. -- gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] Nominations for council
On Tue, 2008-06-03 at 18:17 +0100, Ciaran McCreesh wrote: > On Tue, 3 Jun 2008 19:11:44 +0200 > Jeroen Roovers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Also, I would have thought there was a requirement to have been a > > developer for at least a year, just like we require mentors to have > > been a developer for six months. Thoughts? > > You're confusing Foundation and Council rules. For the Council, there > aren't any restrictions on who can nominate or who can run -- GLEP 39 > doesn't even include the restriction on only nominating developers. IMHO the Council should be written into the Foundation Bylaws. Replacing and deprecating GLEP 39. Which one of the first things wrt to the Council that would be mentioned in the Bylaws is the Council has full authority and veto power over the project. That means the board nor officers can dictate to the Council. Council remains on top of it all. Just legally declared, and with other rules, regulations, etc, stipulated in detail. Unlike GLEP 39 Put in a legal document, giving the Council legal power. Not just power per some GLEP or other unofficial doc, being used for a purpose other than it's intention. Much less make it easier to see and understand the structure of Gentoo to an outsider. -- William L. Thomson Jr. amd64/Java/Trustees Gentoo Foundation signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: [gentoo-dev] Nominations for council
On Tue, 2008-06-03 at 11:31 +0100, George Prowse wrote: > Alex Howells wrote: > > 2008/6/3 George Prowse <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > >> Thirded > > > > Someone can clarify but don't you need to be a Foundation member to > > nominate or support nominations? > > > > Either way, all of the current Council get my nomination, plus welp > > gets a second. > > Anyone can nominate but only members get a vote. Foundation members, and Gentoo Developers are not the same. I do not believe Council elections have anything at all to do with the Foundation. There are similar stipulations for time on board, etc before one can vote in either Foundation or Council elections/votes. But they are different. One needs to only be a developer, that has met time requirements, to vote for Council. Pretty sure same stipulations apply to running for Council position. At this time Foundation Membership has nothing do with developer status, or qualifications to vote in Council elections. In fact I believe a current Gentoo Developer could elect to not be a member of the foundation. They would still retain all status and rights as a developer. Including voting rights on any vote or election put forth by any entity Council, etc other than the Foundation to it's members. -- William L. Thomson Jr. amd64/Java/Trustees Gentoo Foundation signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: [gentoo-dev] Nominations for council
On 12:07 Tue 03 Jun , Łukasz Damentko wrote: > Nominations aren't open yet. They will be soon (rather days than > weeks). But not yet. I have no idea why you guys rushed it but you > will have nominate again after we open if for real. That sounds like pointless bureaucracy ... is there any reason? Thanks, Donnie -- gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] Nominations for council
On Tue, 3 Jun 2008 18:17:05 +0100 Ciaran McCreesh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Tue, 3 Jun 2008 19:11:44 +0200 > Jeroen Roovers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Also, I would have thought there was a requirement to have been a > > developer for at least a year, just like we require mentors to have > > been a developer for six months. Thoughts? > > You're confusing Foundation and Council rules. I'm not confusing anything. I said I would have thought there was such a requirement, which isn't the same as saying I thought there was such a requirement. What I meant to say was - I think there should be such a requirement. JeR -- gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] Nominations for council
On Tue, 3 Jun 2008 19:11:44 +0200 Jeroen Roovers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Also, I would have thought there was a requirement to have been a > developer for at least a year, just like we require mentors to have > been a developer for six months. Thoughts? You're confusing Foundation and Council rules. For the Council, there aren't any restrictions on who can nominate or who can run -- GLEP 39 doesn't even include the restriction on only nominating developers. -- Ciaran McCreesh signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] Nominations for council
On Tue, 03 Jun 2008 17:46:53 +0100 George Prowse <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Correct. Only developers can vote but anyone can nominate: > > http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/council/ > 6. Voting Process > > * Council elections generally happen once a year > > * Anyone can nominate (nominating yourself is OK) Maybe the Council should address that. Who is "anyone"? Developers, Gentoo staff or _really_ anyone? Also, I would have thought there was a requirement to have been a developer for at least a year, just like we require mentors to have been a developer for six months. Thoughts? Kind regards, JeR -- gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] Nominations for council
Ulrich Mueller wrote: On Tue, 03 Jun 2008, George Prowse wrote: Someone can clarify but don't you need to be a Foundation member to nominate or support nominations? [...] Anyone can nominate but only members get a vote. GLEP 39 says something else: | * Council members will be chosen by a general election of all devs | once per year. Ulrich Correct. Only developers can vote but anyone can nominate: http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/council/ 6. Voting Process * Council elections generally happen once a year * Anyone can nominate (nominating yourself is OK) I have voted in the previous 3 elections, 2 of my nominations accepted in 2006 :) http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/council/voting-logs/council-2006-nominees.xml -- gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] Nominations for council
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Ferris McCormick wrote: | | I think nominations are open. I nominate | rane | welp | zlin | | I think I've spelt all of them correctly and that all three are are | qualified. | | Regards, | Ferris éí¢‡^¾X¬¶È žÚ(¢¸&j)bž bst== As Łukasz replied, the election process hasn't started yet. There will be an official announcement about it, before nominations will be accepted. We will clarify all rules for the voting until then. - -- Regards, Jorge Vicetto (jmbsvicetto) - jmbsvicetto at gentoo dot org Gentoo- forums / Userrel / SPARC / KDE -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkhFJqMACgkQcAWygvVEyAIuoACfYHYwpcv4n4pJWP9LPHtgQwVu T4IAnjt20NltT8xEqNRXPTO4kdZVquX5 =CFXk -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] Nominations for council
> On Tue, 03 Jun 2008, George Prowse wrote: >> Someone can clarify but don't you need to be a Foundation member to >> nominate or support nominations? >> >> [...] > Anyone can nominate but only members get a vote. GLEP 39 says something else: | * Council members will be chosen by a general election of all devs | once per year. Ulrich -- gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] Nominations for council
Alex Howells wrote: 2008/6/3 George Prowse <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: Thirded Someone can clarify but don't you need to be a Foundation member to nominate or support nominations? Either way, all of the current Council get my nomination, plus welp gets a second. Anyone can nominate but only members get a vote. -- gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] Nominations for council
2008/6/3 Richard Brown <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > On Tue, Jun 3, 2008 at 10:03 AM, Alex Howells <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> Someone can clarify but don't you need to be a Foundation member to >> nominate or support nominations? >> >> Either way, all of the current Council get my nomination, plus welp >> gets a second. > > Someone can clarify, but don't you need nominations to be open to > nominate people? Nominations aren't open yet. They will be soon (rather days than weeks). But not yet. I have no idea why you guys rushed it but you will have nominate again after we open if for real. -- Łukasz Damentko
Re: [gentoo-dev] Nominations for council
On Tue, Jun 3, 2008 at 10:03 AM, Alex Howells <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Someone can clarify but don't you need to be a Foundation member to > nominate or support nominations? > > Either way, all of the current Council get my nomination, plus welp > gets a second. Someone can clarify, but don't you need nominations to be open to nominate people? -- Richard Brown -- gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] Nominations for council
2008/6/3 George Prowse <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > Thirded Someone can clarify but don't you need to be a Foundation member to nominate or support nominations? Either way, all of the current Council get my nomination, plus welp gets a second. -- gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] Nominations for council
2008/6/3 Ferris McCormick <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > I think nominations are open. Not yet. -- gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] Nominations for council
Josh Saddler wrote: Denis Dupeyron wrote: Alright. Then I'll nominate all members of the current council. In alphabetical order: amne betelgeuse dberkholz flameeyes jokey lu_zero vapier Seconded. Thirded -- gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] Nominations for council
Denis Dupeyron wrote: Alright. Then I'll nominate all members of the current council. In alphabetical order: amne betelgeuse dberkholz flameeyes jokey lu_zero vapier Seconded. (Also...it's voting time already? Can't believe it's already been a year.) signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] Nominations for council
On Tue, Jun 3, 2008 at 7:52 AM, Ferris McCormick <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I think nominations are open. I nominate > rane > welp > zlin Alright. Then I'll nominate all members of the current council. In alphabetical order: amne betelgeuse dberkholz flameeyes jokey lu_zero vapier Denis. -- gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
