Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Nominations open for the Gentoo Council 2007/08
On Sat, 2007-07-21 at 13:31 +0100, Roy Bamford wrote: > That's the beginnings of a good election manifesto. All the candidates > need to explain, if they are elected :- > > 1. What they will do > 2. Why they will do it > 3. How they will do it > 4. Timescales for their plans. 5. Experience doing similar things in other arenas 6. Why they think they're qualified for the position 7. How they plan on adding the Council work into their normal Gentoo work load 8. How much time they have to dedicate to Council tasks These last two are probably some of the most important to me, since I have seen first-hand how much time the Council can take. Here's a glimpse, for the rest of you... When the Council was working on the CoC, I spent in excess of 50 hours in one week working solely on the CoC. This means I put my actual paying job on the back burner for the Council because I pretty much had to do so. The Council is *not* only a once a month job. You're a Council member every hour of every day for a year. > This information will allow the electorate to choose a team with > similar aims, so we get a cohesive council, not a collection of > individuals trying to take Gentoo in different directions. I know that I will likely be choosing people of a like mind to myself. I'll also probably be picking people the *least* likely to be pushing for a ton of changes, simply because I also don't think we need 7 people pushing in 7 directions only trying to get *their* ideas enacted. > Any candidate unwilling to prepare such a manifesto should withdraw now > as they clearly don't have the time or interest to take an active seat > on the council. Agreed. > Like it or not, the council is more of a social/political body than a > development body. This is really true. While the Council is the main technical body, we tend to make technical decisions very quickly and without controversy. Social/political issues are almost always very long-running and tend to take up more of our time. If I were to guess, I would say that 90% of what we do is technical, but the 10% that is non-technical takes up 90% of our time. -- Chris Gianelloni Release Engineering Strategic Lead Alpha/AMD64/x86 Architecture Teams Games Developer/Council Member/Foundation Trustee Gentoo Foundation signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Nominations open for the Gentoo Council 2007/08
On Sat, 21 Jul 2007 10:47:13 +0100 Peter Weller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I'd particularly want to ensure that there is > better communication between us (Gentoo) and projects such as Sabayon > Linux and Ainkaboot, as I believe that we can all make use of each > other's skills and ideas to provide better distribution(s). We were just talking about this last night in #gentoo-dev, so I'm glad to see you share the feeling. I blogged about making Gentoo a better tool yesterday, and a big part of that is communicating with the people who are doing so. Thanks, Donnie signature.asc Description: PGP signature
RE: [gentoo-dev] Re: Nominations open for the Gentoo Council 2007/08
Roy Bamford <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >>On 2007.07.21 10:47, Peter Weller wrote: >> >> My main plans over the next few years would be to improve >> communications (and (more importantly?) openness), not just between >> developers, but also between herds, users, the Council, the Trustees, >> upstream and so on. >> >> I'd particularly want to ensure that there is >> better communication between us (Gentoo) and projects such as Sabayon >> Linux and Ainkaboot, as I believe that we can all make use of each >> other's skills and ideas to provide better distribution(s). >> >> I'd encourage "innovative" ideas and projects, such as the inclusion of, >> for example, XGL/Compiz/Beryl/Compiz-Fusion or whatever it's called >> these days. >> >> I'd also encourage the introduction of targets, as discussed by antarus on >> the -core ML. And all that kinda stuff. > That's the beginnings of a good election manifesto. All the candidates need > to explain, if they are elected :- > 1. What they will do > 2. Why they will do it > 3. How they will do it > 4. Timescales for their plans. > This information will allow the electorate to choose a team with similar aims, so > we get a cohesive council, not a collection of individuals trying to take Gentoo > in different directions. I like this line of thinking, it really helps the rest of us in our voting decisions when we know what your plans are. I also agree with Neddy when he says it would be best if we could elect a council with similar ideas instead of each person potentially having completely different ideas. That said, I don't think the questions Neddy stated above should wait to be answered until someone is elected, we'd really need to know that up front to make an informed decision. Welp it appears to me that you had four plans in your email, and by the way thank you for being first to state them. Could you go back over them and respond to the how you would plan on doing it and under what time frame? (Innovative ideas are great, but don't mean much if they cant be executed.) Kind regards, Christina Fullam Gentoo Developer Relations Lead | GWN Author -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Nominations open for the Gentoo Council 2007/08
On 2007.07.21 10:47, Peter Weller wrote: [snip] > > Yes, I will accept. > > My main plans over the next few years would be to improve > communications (and (more importantly?) openness), not just between > developers, but also between herds, users, the Council, the Trustees, > upstream and so on. I'd particularly want to ensure that there is > better > communication between us (Gentoo) and projects such as Sabayon Linux > and Ainkaboot, as I believe that we can all make use of each other's > skills and ideas to provide better distribution(s). I'd encourage > "innovative" ideas and projects, such as the inclusion of, for > example, > XGL/Compiz/Beryl/Compiz-Fusion or whatever it's called these days. > I'd > also encourage the introduction of targets, as discussed by antarus > on > the -core ML. And all that kinda stuff. > > Now, I'm sure that a number of you would prefer everything to be > closed, kept private within a number of individuals, but if that *is* > the case, why on Earth are you involved with an *Open* Source > project, > such as Gentoo? Wouldn't you be better off using the likes of Adobe's > products and Microsoft's products? > > Yes, I am quite young. Yes, I could be considered relatively new to > the > project. Yes, I might make mistakes, but I also *learn* from > mistakes, > which some people seem to find hard. Being young/relatively new to > the > project will allow me to potentially bring a fresh view on things, > that > some of you old fuddy-duddies may or may not have thought of before. > And isn't that what Gentoo is about? New ideas, innovation, fresh > views, etc, etc. Anyway. Meh. I'm starting to waffle on. > > And I'm moving house at the beginning of August, I'm also going to > France sometime in August. Just some advanced warnings that I may not > be around so much during the voting period. > > Bai! > Peter, That's the beginnings of a good election manifesto. All the candidates need to explain, if they are elected :- 1. What they will do 2. Why they will do it 3. How they will do it 4. Timescales for their plans. This information will allow the electorate to choose a team with similar aims, so we get a cohesive council, not a collection of individuals trying to take Gentoo in different directions. Any candidate unwilling to prepare such a manifesto should withdraw now as they clearly don't have the time or interest to take an active seat on the council. Like it or not, the council is more of a social/political body than a development body. Regards, Roy Bamford, (NeddySeagoon) -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Nominations open for the Gentoo Council 2007/08
On Mon, 02 Jul 2007 21:47:42 +0200 Markus Ullmann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: [..snip..] > welp [..snip..] On Mon, 02 Jul 2007 23:29:15 +0200 Raúl Porcel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: [..snip..] > - -welp [..snip..] On Wed, 04 Jul 2007 16:06:34 +0100 George Prowse <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: [..snip..] > welp [..snip..] On Wed, 18 Jul 2007 16:27:18 -0400 Doug Goldstein <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > All, > > You've all stated that you accept or don't accept (but this is > targeted at the acceptors, sorry non-acceptors) but the people that > accept haven't really given much reason as to why they would be a good > candidate. [..snip..] > -- > Doug Goldstein Yes, I will accept. My main plans over the next few years would be to improve communications (and (more importantly?) openness), not just between developers, but also between herds, users, the Council, the Trustees, upstream and so on. I'd particularly want to ensure that there is better communication between us (Gentoo) and projects such as Sabayon Linux and Ainkaboot, as I believe that we can all make use of each other's skills and ideas to provide better distribution(s). I'd encourage "innovative" ideas and projects, such as the inclusion of, for example, XGL/Compiz/Beryl/Compiz-Fusion or whatever it's called these days. I'd also encourage the introduction of targets, as discussed by antarus on the -core ML. And all that kinda stuff. Now, I'm sure that a number of you would prefer everything to be closed, kept private within a number of individuals, but if that *is* the case, why on Earth are you involved with an *Open* Source project, such as Gentoo? Wouldn't you be better off using the likes of Adobe's products and Microsoft's products? Yes, I am quite young. Yes, I could be considered relatively new to the project. Yes, I might make mistakes, but I also *learn* from mistakes, which some people seem to find hard. Being young/relatively new to the project will allow me to potentially bring a fresh view on things, that some of you old fuddy-duddies may or may not have thought of before. And isn't that what Gentoo is about? New ideas, innovation, fresh views, etc, etc. Anyway. Meh. I'm starting to waffle on. And I'm moving house at the beginning of August, I'm also going to France sometime in August. Just some advanced warnings that I may not be around so much during the voting period. Bai! signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Nominations open for the Gentoo Council 2007/08
Kumba wrote: > Ryan Hill wrote: >> Torsten Veller wrote: >>> | for the quick low down: >>> | - nominations are from July 1 through July 31 >>> | - anyone can nominate >>> | - only Gentoo devs may be nominated >>> | | so get with the nominating people ! >> >> I noticed Kumba isn't nominated, so I'll throw him into the ring. > > I'll decline for this year; I'm content to hide over in MIPS land and > toss out random ideas from behind the safe shadows of an Origin 2000 > cluster... > > Thanks for the nomination, though! > > > --Kumba > Admit it, you just wii all the time. :-) -- Luis F. Araujo "araujo at gentoo.org" Gentoo Linux -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Nominations open for the Gentoo Council 2007/08
Ryan Hill wrote: Torsten Veller wrote: | for the quick low down: | - nominations are from July 1 through July 31 | - anyone can nominate | - only Gentoo devs may be nominated | | so get with the nominating people ! I noticed Kumba isn't nominated, so I'll throw him into the ring. I'll decline for this year; I'm content to hide over in MIPS land and toss out random ideas from behind the safe shadows of an Origin 2000 cluster... Thanks for the nomination, though! --Kumba -- Gentoo/MIPS Team Lead "Such is oft the course of deeds that move the wheels of the world: small hands do them because they must, while the eyes of the great are elsewhere." --Elrond -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
[gentoo-dev] Re: Nominations open for the Gentoo Council 2007/08
Torsten Veller wrote: > | for the quick low down: > | - nominations are from July 1 through July 31 > | - anyone can nominate > | - only Gentoo devs may be nominated > | > | so get with the nominating people ! I noticed Kumba isn't nominated, so I'll throw him into the ring. -- dirtyepic salesman said this vacuum's guaranteed gentoo org it could suck an ancient virus from the sea 9B81 6C9F E791 83BB 3AB3 5B2D E625 A073 8379 37E8 (0x837937E8) -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
[gentoo-dev] Re: Nominations open for the Gentoo Council 2007/08
Torsten Veller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> posted [EMAIL PROTECTED], excerpted below, on Sun, 15 Jul 2007 13:40:29 +0200: > * Tiziano Müller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: >> Torsten Veller schrieb: >> > Let me please point out that no infrastructure team member is on the >> > list right now. >> > >> > As infra is often involved in implementing council decisions we >> > should take care that the information flows. IMHO the easiest way to >> > achieve this is electing an infra member to the council. >> >> In the contrary. We should see that not too much power/responsibility >> is concentrated on a single person. >> >> Since... >> a) This guarantees that the council comes to a decision which is not >> influenced by the (direct and already known) interest of it's members >> and >> b) Reduces the risk for Gentoo when someone with more than one key >> position leaves > > If devs in a key position leave, it's often a problem. But I don't see a > concentration problem here. The problem in practice is this: As Chris G. I believe it was pointed out, being a Council member is "hella" stressful. (From memory so the numbers are fuzzy, ask Chris.) Of the this term's seven elected council members, two ended up retiring from Gentoo entirely, while others almost did and/or resigned from their council position. Few of the remaining ones are interested in ever running for the position again. So serious as a heart attack, there is a real problem. Unfortunately, as currently structured, the stress on council is great enough that people /do/ leave in the middle of their term, so it's best to consider that a real likelihood when thinking about nominations and votes for council. I respect Chris G a lot, but it's very obvious the stress has affected how he deals with Gentoo as well, and he's stated no way is he interested in the position again. I think everybody nominated even more than those voting would do well to pay serious attention to what he says on the subject, because how they handle their duties as council members has a very real likelihood of permanently affecting their relationship with Gentoo. I know if I were a dev and nominated, I'd be seriously contemplating whether it were worth doing, in the light of how dramatically it negatively affected the Gentoo life of last years elected council. There's no escaping the reality, however one might wish to pretend it won't affect them. I'd be asking myself if the council position was worth possibly getting so burnt out and fed up with Gentoo that I quit. Some might believe in what they want to do enough to find it worth it, while others believe in their ability to handle the situation regardless. More power to them. I do hope that those that accept the nomination and are ultimately elected are ready for it, because it really hurts to lose good people, and by definition, anyone well respected enough to win an elected seat on the council is a "good" person in terms of their contribution to Gentoo, or they'd not be winning that seat. Losing anyone that well respected by their peers is GOING to hurt, so I really do hope the folks that are running are prepared for what they are getting themselves into, and we /don't/ lose anyone due to council duties this coming year. -- Duncan - List replies preferred. No HTML msgs. "Every nonfree program has a lord, a master -- and if you use the program, he is your master." Richard Stallman -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Nominations open for the Gentoo Council 2007/08
After being bribed with beer from edit_21, welp and a few others I accept my nomination too. Thanks Roy -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
[gentoo-dev] Re: Nominations open for the Gentoo Council 2007/08
* Tiziano Müller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > Torsten Veller schrieb: > > Let me please point out that no infrastructure team member is > > on the list right now. > > > > As infra is often involved in implementing council decisions we should > > take care that the information flows. IMHO the easiest way to achieve this > > is electing an infra member to the council. > > In the contrary. We should see that not too much power/responsibility is > concentrated on a single person. > > Since... > a) This guarantees that the council comes to a decision which is not > influenced by the (direct and already known) interest of it's members > and > b) Reduces the risk for Gentoo when someone with more than one key > position leaves If devs in a key position leave, it's often a problem. But I don't see a concentration problem here. > And if someone has to be in a council/whatsoever to get the relevant > information, something else is broken. I didn't write that and didn't meant that. > And tweaking the election procedure to reach that someone from a > special project is elected is somehow questionable, don't you think? No. I also vote this way. I want the council to represent Gentoo as a whole and be represented by Gentoo as a whole. I think it helps the other council members too if there is e.g. an infra member to take care of the infra stance. But: A council without an infra member can do a good job too. Thanks. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Nominations open for the Gentoo Council 2007/08
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Tiziano Müller wrote: > Torsten Veller schrieb: >> Let me please point out that no infrastructure team member is >> on the list right now. >> >> As infra is often involved in implementing council decisions we should >> take care that the information flows. IMHO the easiest way to achieve this >> is electing an infra member to the council. > > > And if someone has to be in a council/whatsoever to get the relevant > information, something else is broken. And tweaking the election > procedure to reach that someone from a special project is elected is > somehow questionable, don't you think? > Well, I don't think there is anything wrong with somebody from infra being on the council, but I also agree that it shouldn't be essential. I see the council as being like a board of directors for a company - they don't need to make day-to-day decisions but they do need to have ultimate oversight. The skillset needed to run a board is different from the skillset needed to run day-to-day operations. I see the main skills needed by a council member as: 1. Good people skills! 2. Ability to listen to all sides of an issue and make informed decisions. 3. Ability to be an advocate for the project. 4. Energy and spirit - ability to motivate. 5. Ability to be firm when needed - balanced with ability to stay polite while being firm. 6. Some technical vision for the project. 7. Ability to evaluate proposed solutions to technical problems. Honestly, I'm actually wondering if it is a mistake to limit the council nominations to devs only. Having the devs do the voting is a good move I think - they have to live with the decisions and alienating the devs isn't going to be good for the users and other stakeholders. However, if the devs want to elect a non-dev I think that they should be able to do so. Organizations frequently have boards that are composed of non-daily-contributors. I think that Gentoo is making a mistake in seeing the council as a place where ultimately highly-technical decisions get made. I think that is one role of the council, but if you look at Gentoo that isn't what is really causing the problems. The only really technical flamefest I tend to see on -dev is the periodic what-is-the-blessed-package-manager war - and that really isn't so much a technical battle as much as one of principle - should gentoo have more than one? (AND PLEASE DO NOT REPLY TO THIS OPENING UP THAT BATTLE AGAIN!!!) Most other technical debates on -dev tend to be a little more dispassionate. My feeling is that the council should be setting general direction and providing accountability on technical issues, but individual herd leads should be the ones taking the initiative. Is there a QA issue? The QA herd lead should come up with a potential solution, run it past the council with some advance debate, and then everybody works together to implement it. The council doesn't need to solve every problem - they just need to listen to people who might have the answer - with a large group like Gentoo they probably already exist. And the council shouldn't be afraid to hire others to do the day-to-day work (well, maybe hire without pay if necessary... :) ). The proctors were a good example of this (even if maybe it didn't get implemented as intended or it didn't go as well as hoped). While the council does need energy it shouldn't require personally moderating the whole project. In real life boards hire CEOs to do the heavy lifting and just meet once per month to see how it is going. I'm not advocating that for gentoo, but people do need to look at the council differently than they do now. It doesn't have to have the best developers in gentoo - it needs to have the best council-members in Gentoo... -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFGmgMFG4/rWKZmVWkRAlGfAJ4vGcSnCYxDXp/y5ILWux1+y6x3WACghOwR 5BQg4vpme3BuUFrz4sQMveA= =iown -END PGP SIGNATURE- smime.p7s Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature
[gentoo-dev] Re: Nominations open for the Gentoo Council 2007/08
Torsten Veller schrieb: > Let me please point out that no infrastructure team member is > on the list right now. > > As infra is often involved in implementing council decisions we should > take care that the information flows. IMHO the easiest way to achieve this > is electing an infra member to the council. In the contrary. We should see that not too much power/responsibility is concentrated on a single person. Since... a) This guarantees that the council comes to a decision which is not influenced by the (direct and already known) interest of it's members and b) Reduces the risk for Gentoo when someone with more than one key position leaves And if someone has to be in a council/whatsoever to get the relevant information, something else is broken. And tweaking the election procedure to reach that someone from a special project is elected is somehow questionable, don't you think? Cheers, Tiziano signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
[gentoo-dev] Re: Nominations open for the Gentoo Council 2007/08
* Chris Gianelloni <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > On Wed, 2007-07-04 at 18:23 +0300, Petteri Räty wrote: > > How is being a devrel member important for the table? I don't think it's > > any more special than any other TLP. > > It is very important in the case of Council members as the Council is > the escalation point for Developer Relations appeals. Let me please point out that no infrastructure team member is on the list right now. As infra is often involved in implementing council decisions we should take care that the information flows. IMHO the easiest way to achieve this is electing an infra member to the council. Thanks. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Nominations open for the Gentoo Council 2007/08
On Monday 02 July 2007 21:10, Torsten Veller wrote: > Let me nominate the current council members: > > Sune Kloppenborg Jeppesen jaervosz YES. When I start on my new job I'll be a lot more online. I'll write some more before election time. But already now I can say that I will work for keeping Gentoo as open as possible, I don't think permanent moderation or any form of censorship will really do us any good. -- Sune Kloppenborg Jeppesen Gentoo Linux Security Team -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
[gentoo-dev] Re: Nominations open for the Gentoo Council 2007/08
Davide Cendron schrieb: >> jokey Thanks for your nomination :) I'm accepting, too. greetings with nightvision goggles -jokey signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Nominations open for the Gentoo Council 2007/08
Markus Ullmann wrote: > > nominating: > > others are nominated already ;) > > d'oh, forgot fellow > > dertobi123 Thanks, I accept the nomination. Tobias signature.asc Description: Dies ist ein digital signierter Nachrichtenteil
[gentoo-dev] Re: Nominations open for the Gentoo Council 2007/08
* José Luis Rivero (yoswink) <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > I've just rescued the xml we used the last year and update the current > nominations. The list is in: > > http://dev.gentoo.org/~yoswink/council-2007.xml It has been moved to: http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/council/voting-logs/council-2007-nominees.xml > I will try to update it often, but please, tell me if I miss something or if > there is some error. Thanks, José. -- -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
[gentoo-dev] Re: Nominations open for the Gentoo Council 2007/08
Chris Gianelloni <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> posted [EMAIL PROTECTED], excerpted below, on Thu, 05 Jul 2007 15:17:36 -0700: > On Mon, 2007-07-02 at 21:10 +0200, Torsten Veller wrote: >> Chris Gianelloniwolf31o2 > > While I thank you for the nomination for next year's Gentoo Council, I > have decided that I no longer wish to be associated with the Gentoo > Council or any other form of "management" or "leadership" within Gentoo. > It is simply too stressful[. [Note] that of the original elected > Council, two have retired (both due to being tired of having the shit > roll downhill to them) from Gentoo completely, and three of the > remaining aren't running for re-election. > > Being a Council member is the worst job in Gentoo. Be sure you're ready > to be treated like complete shit from your fellow developers all the > while having your integrity questioned daily before accepting your > nominations. I know that I wouldn't accept a position on the Gentoo > Council even if it was a paying job. > > I've also come to realize that trying to give a single direction to > something like Gentoo is an extremely foolish endeavor. The better > solution is smaller projects and tasks that have defined goals and can > actually be accomplished[. T]he Council is definitely needed[, but] > their focus should be on attainable and measurable goals, not lofty > dreamy-eyed goals with no real way to measure whether we're moving in > the right direction. The following is JMHO... So it sounds like you've come out of the year as a council member more cynical, more reality-eyed as compared to starry-eyed, in a word, more /mature/. Too bad you are /not/ running again, as arguably, that sort of wisdom, experience and maturity, an appreciation of how reality actually works as opposed to theory, is just the sort of thing that Gentoo /needs/ on the council. FWIW, nobody's perfect, but IMO, the outgoing council did reasonably well given what it ran on, where it started, and the events that happened on their watch that they had to deal with. Many councilors ran saying Gentoo needed to shake things up, and the council going in vowed to be an activist council. I was a bit concerned at that, but whatever. They WERE an activist council, changing a number of things, driving Gentoo forward in a number of areas, often in spite of opposition. In other areas, they tried things and those things failed, but they tried. They may not have accomplished everything they wanted, but who does? They certainly were activist, however, and proved both some things that work and some things that don't. That's more than we knew before, and no way to know without trying. Hopefully, those lessons will be taken to heart by the next council, whoever they end up being. And no, I can't say I blame you for not taking the renomination. It's still a shame, tho. Maybe with a year off... Regardless of where you go in relation to Gentoo, I believe a decade from now looking back, you'll find the experience a turning point in your life, something you'll ultimately say you wouldn't change and that changed you for the better, regardless of how hard it was while you were going thru it. So anyway, thanks to you and the entire council for serving. Someone has to, and I can't see how it could have turned out better with anyone else. -- Duncan - List replies preferred. No HTML msgs. "Every nonfree program has a lord, a master -- and if you use the program, he is your master." Richard Stallman -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Nominations open for the Gentoo Council 2007/08
On Mon, 2007-07-02 at 21:10 +0200, Torsten Veller wrote: > Chris Gianelloni wolf31o2 While I thank you for the nomination for next year's Gentoo Council, I have decided that I no longer wish to be associated with the Gentoo Council or any other form of "management" or "leadership" within Gentoo. It is simply too stressful being harassed constantly by our developer pool. I sincerely hope that whomever decides to run for Council this year takes into account that of the original elected Council, two have retired (both due to being tired of having the shit roll downhill to them) from Gentoo completely, and three of the remaining aren't running for re-election. Being a Council member is the worst job in Gentoo. Be sure you're ready to be treated like complete shit from your fellow developers all the while having your integrity questioned daily before accepting your nominations. I know that I wouldn't accept a position on the Gentoo Council even if it was a paying job. I've also come to realize that trying to give a single direction to something like Gentoo is an extremely foolish endeavor. The better solution is smaller projects and tasks that have defined goals and can actually be accomplished. Any kind of general direction for the entire distribution would either mean leaving out groups, or moving in a direction that conflicts with the goals of our current groups. Don't get me wrong, the Council is definitely needed. I just think their focus should be on attainable and measurable goals, not lofty dreamy-eyed goals with no real way to measure whether we're moving in the right direction. Rather than go into more and more what I think are major deficiencies in what the Council can and can not do due to the ever-changing developer pool, I think I'll just shut up now. If anyone wants to discuss with me any of this stuff, feel free to contact me. > Say YES or NO. How about a resounding NO, instead? -- Chris Gianelloni Release Engineering Strategic Lead Alpha/AMD64/x86 Architecture Teams Games Developer/Council Member/Foundation Trustee Gentoo Foundation signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
[gentoo-dev] Re: Nominations open for the Gentoo Council 2007/08
Jan Kundrát wrote: > I nominate Wernfried Haas (amne). Based on a thorough and detailed > review of Gentoo state-of-affair that we did together over several beers > some time ago when he was at Prague, I'm sure he's one of the best > candidates for the human, caring part of the Council. > I second that, simply because his teams do such a good job. I have felt unfairly treated, I admit, but I'd rather they were too tight than too lax. And a cooling off is refreshing! Amne has always handled the situation professionally when things were tense, and has always seemed chilled at other times. Dunno about this cz conspiracy tho.. heh no-one will vote for him now ;) -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
[gentoo-dev] Re: Nominations open for the Gentoo Council 2007/08
* Raúl Porcel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > - -tove No, thanks. Not my job. -- -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Nominations open for the Gentoo Council 2007/08
On Mon, Jul 02, 2007 at 09:10:03PM +0200, Torsten Veller wrote: > Robin H. Johnson robbat2 No, unfortunately I don't have time to run again. My job has required ever-increasing amounts of my time. Even my commit stats show just how much I'm being pressured lately. Of the tree signing stuff that I originally ran to work on, here's the CVS space I was working on it. http://sources.gentoo.org/viewcvs.py/gentoo/users/robbat2/tree-signing-gleps/ A short status report on it: 00 - summary, and review of past attempts - needs techreview + copyedit, but completed. 04 - Manifest2 hashes - I believe that the Portage codebase has moved on, more might work. 01 - Distribution process security - needs content polishing and review. 02 - Developer security - lots of work here, this part will probably never happen. Probably should just drop. 03 - GnuPG Policies - nothing done yet, but this is mainly a summary of some of the list posts from last year. -- Robin Hugh Johnson Gentoo Linux Developer & Council Member E-Mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED] GnuPG FP : 11AC BA4F 4778 E3F6 E4ED F38E B27B 944E 3488 4E85 pgpBB58zykDzN.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Nominations open for the Gentoo Council 2007/08
Thorsten Veller wrote: > Let me nominate the current council members: > > Mike Doty kingtaco > Danny van Dyk kugelfang > Roy Marplesuberlord > Sune Kloppenborg Jeppesen jaervosz > Robin H. Johnson robbat2 > Mike Frysinger vapier > Chris Gianelloni wolf31o2 > > Say YES or NO. Thanks for the nomination, but I'm not interested in another year on the council. --taco -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
[gentoo-dev] Re: Nominations open for the Gentoo Council 2007/08
Markus Ullmann schrieb: > nominating: > others are nominated already ;) d'oh, forgot fellow dertobi123 -Jokey signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
[gentoo-dev] Re: Nominations open for the Gentoo Council 2007/08
nominating: welp taviso others are nominated already ;) -Jokey -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
[gentoo-dev] Re: Nominations open for the Gentoo Council 2007/08
Let me nominate the current council members: Mike Doty kingtaco Danny van Dyk kugelfang Roy Marplesuberlord Sune Kloppenborg Jeppesen jaervosz Robin H. Johnson robbat2 Mike Frysinger vapier Chris Gianelloni wolf31o2 Say YES or NO. -- -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
