Re: [gentoo-dev] Monthly Gentoo Council Reminder for October

2008-10-10 Thread Alec Warner
On Thu, Oct 9, 2008 at 11:55 AM, Ciaran McCreesh
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 On Thu, 9 Oct 2008 09:25:55 -0500
 Donnie Berkholz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 On 05:30 Wed 01 Oct , Mike Frysinger wrote:
  If you have something you'd wish for us to chat about, maybe even
  vote on, let us know !  Simply reply to this e-mail for the whole
  Gentoo dev list to see.

 Nothing was submitted, so there will be no meeting today. We'll have
 a meeting in 2 weeks if anything comes up or if I missed something
 that for some reason was not posted in response to the usual
 announcement thread.

 I'm guessing it's too late to ask the Council to discuss the EAPI 2 is
 brokened :( thread? What would be the earliest the Council would be
 able to make a decision upon that? Unfortunately it's something that
 could get messy if left for too long.

All I see in the thread is you bringing up a known issue and then
everyone telling you it will be fixed or is in the process of being
fixed.

What kind of improvements are you looking for?  Be specific.


 --
 Ciaran McCreesh




Re: [gentoo-dev] Monthly Gentoo Council Reminder for October

2008-10-09 Thread Donnie Berkholz
On 05:30 Wed 01 Oct , Mike Frysinger wrote:
 If you have something you'd wish for us to chat about, maybe even
 vote on, let us know !  Simply reply to this e-mail for the whole
 Gentoo dev list to see.

Nothing was submitted, so there will be no meeting today. We'll have a 
meeting in 2 weeks if anything comes up or if I missed something that 
for some reason was not posted in response to the usual announcement 
thread.

I strongly suggest that council members consider spending the usual 
meeting time working on, thinking about, or bugging the critical person 
holding up our open bugs. I intend to work on bug #237381 (Document 
appeals process).

-- 
Thanks,
Donnie

Donnie Berkholz
Developer, Gentoo Linux
Blog: http://dberkholz.wordpress.com


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Re: [gentoo-dev] Monthly Gentoo Council Reminder for October

2008-10-09 Thread Ciaran McCreesh
On Thu, 9 Oct 2008 09:25:55 -0500
Donnie Berkholz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 On 05:30 Wed 01 Oct , Mike Frysinger wrote:
  If you have something you'd wish for us to chat about, maybe even
  vote on, let us know !  Simply reply to this e-mail for the whole
  Gentoo dev list to see.
 
 Nothing was submitted, so there will be no meeting today. We'll have
 a meeting in 2 weeks if anything comes up or if I missed something
 that for some reason was not posted in response to the usual
 announcement thread.

I'm guessing it's too late to ask the Council to discuss the EAPI 2 is
brokened :( thread? What would be the earliest the Council would be
able to make a decision upon that? Unfortunately it's something that
could get messy if left for too long.

-- 
Ciaran McCreesh


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Re: [gentoo-dev] Monthly Gentoo Council Reminder for October

2008-10-09 Thread Zac Medico
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Hash: SHA1

Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
 On Thu, 9 Oct 2008 09:25:55 -0500
 Donnie Berkholz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 On 05:30 Wed 01 Oct , Mike Frysinger wrote:
 If you have something you'd wish for us to chat about, maybe even
 vote on, let us know !  Simply reply to this e-mail for the whole
 Gentoo dev list to see.
 Nothing was submitted, so there will be no meeting today. We'll have
 a meeting in 2 weeks if anything comes up or if I missed something
 that for some reason was not posted in response to the usual
 announcement thread.
 
 I'm guessing it's too late to ask the Council to discuss the EAPI 2 is
 brokened :( thread? What would be the earliest the Council would be
 able to make a decision upon that? Unfortunately it's something that
 could get messy if left for too long.
 

I think that you may be overreacting. The python-2.6 ebuild from bug
  240684 is still hard masked in package.mask and I'm doing a
sys-apps/portage-2.2_rc12 release today that will fix the problem.

- --
Thanks,
Zac
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Re: [gentoo-dev] Monthly Gentoo Council Reminder for October

2008-10-09 Thread Ciaran McCreesh
On Thu, 09 Oct 2008 12:11:23 -0700
Zac Medico [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  I'm guessing it's too late to ask the Council to discuss the EAPI
  2 is brokened :( thread? What would be the earliest the Council
  would be able to make a decision upon that? Unfortunately it's
  something that could get messy if left for too long.
 
 I think that you may be overreacting. The python-2.6 ebuild from bug
   240684 is still hard masked in package.mask and I'm doing a
 sys-apps/portage-2.2_rc12 release today that will fix the problem.

What about pkgcore?

-- 
Ciaran McCreesh


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Re: [gentoo-dev] Monthly Gentoo Council Reminder for October

2008-10-09 Thread Andrew Gaffney

Ciaran McCreesh wrote:

On Thu, 09 Oct 2008 12:11:23 -0700
Zac Medico [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

I'm guessing it's too late to ask the Council to discuss the EAPI
2 is brokened :( thread? What would be the earliest the Council
would be able to make a decision upon that? Unfortunately it's
something that could get messy if left for too long.

I think that you may be overreacting. The python-2.6 ebuild from bug
  240684 is still hard masked in package.mask and I'm doing a
sys-apps/portage-2.2_rc12 release today that will fix the problem.


What about pkgcore?


It's not Gentoo's primary package manager, so it probably doesn't matter if it 
goes a few days without getting fixed. The worst that happens is a few people 
get failed builds, right?


--
Andrew Gaffney http://dev.gentoo.org/~agaffney/
Gentoo Linux DeveloperCatalyst/Genkernel + Release Engineering Lead



[gentoo-dev] Monthly Gentoo Council Reminder for October

2008-10-01 Thread Mike Frysinger
This is your monthly friendly reminder !  Same bat time (typically
the 2nd Thursday at 2000 UTC / 1600 EST), same bat channel
(#gentoo-council @ irc.freenode.net) !

If you have something you'd wish for us to chat about, maybe even
vote on, let us know !  Simply reply to this e-mail for the whole
Gentoo dev list to see.

Keep in mind that every GLEP *re*submission to the council for review
must first be sent to the gentoo-dev mailing list 7 days (minimum)
before being submitted as an agenda item which itself occurs 7 days
before the meeting.  Simply put, the gentoo-dev mailing list must be
notified at least 14 days before the meeting itself.

For more info on the Gentoo Council, feel free to browse our homepage:
http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/council/



Re: [gentoo-dev] Monthly Gentoo Council Reminder for October

2007-10-09 Thread Wernfried Haas
Just a quick reminder, the meeting will be on thursday.

cheers,
Wernfried

-- 
Wernfried Haas (amne) - amne (at) gentoo.org
Gentoo Forums - http://forums.gentoo.org
forum-mods (at) gentoo.org
#gentoo-forums (freenode)

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Re: [gentoo-dev] Monthly Gentoo Council Reminder for October

2007-10-02 Thread Dennis Nienhüser
Mike Frysinger schrieb:
 This is your monthly friendly reminder !  Same bat time (typically
 the 2nd Thursday at 2000 UTC / 1600 EST), same bat channel
 (#gentoo-council @ irc.freenode.net) !

 If you have something you'd wish for us to chat about, maybe even
 vote on, let us know !  Simply reply to this e-mail for the whole
 Gentoo dev list to see.
   
It would be great if you could discuss possible solutions to the current
packages.gentoo.org situation, or ways to deal with such situations
effectively in general. I am aware that the former doesn't fit exactly
in the council duties and that there's quite some activity in [1]. Still
this issue did and still does do damage to Gentoo's reputation given the
popularity of pgo [2].

Thanks,
Dennis

[1] https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=187971
[2] http://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-574544.html

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Re: [gentoo-dev] Monthly Gentoo Council Reminder for October

2007-10-02 Thread Mike Frysinger
On Monday 01 October 2007, Ferris McCormick wrote:
 The election for this Council and its aftermath shows that we are not
 sure how to handle a situation in which it appears a candidate will not
 be able to serve if elected.

i see it as jokey (who accepted) being an extended proxy for Flameeyes (who 
approved).  my e-mail on the topic was just to stream line things ... 
Flameeyes would have needed to find a proxy himself or he'd get punted.  i 
think our system is currently sufficient to cover the sickness case.  if 
Flameeyes feels he will never be able to take on the role, then he can simply 
resign from the council and the previously decided procedure takes over.

 As a more extreme example than the one we 
 faced this time, suppose a candidate resigns or is suspended.

this has already been codified in previous meetings
-mike


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Re: [gentoo-dev] Monthly Gentoo Council Reminder for October

2007-10-02 Thread Mike Frysinger
On Monday 01 October 2007, Jorge Manuel B. S. Vicetto wrote:
 1. Due to the tardiness in the election process, there was no council
 meeting in September. Will this council have 11 meetings or will its
 term end in September of next year?

 2. Regardless of the decision about the above, we should define a clear
 schedule for the council's election to ensure that the previous issue
 doesn't happen anymore. Given that we have a 1 month election period for
 the council, preceded by a 15 day(?) nomination period, that means that
 the election process must start before the last meeting of the existing
 council. So, if the election were to be held during August, the
 nomination should start on July 15th. I propose the election officials
 be chosen at the same date - so as not to delay the process.

this was already decided at the last meeting:

- clarification on the procedural side of things with transition to new 
Council:
* Nominations will always be in the month of July
* Voting will always be in the month of August
* August will always be the last month for a new Council
* New Council will always take over in September
Delays in misc aspects (like setting up infra to allow voting) will 
merely
delay the start of the new Council and the end of the old Council.  Once
the new Council is voted in and takes over, it will still face the end
date of August.  This is to avoid ugly sliding windows over time of 
Council
members serve for a year, but they started late on date XXX so we have 
to
delay the start of the next Council by XXX days blah blah blah.

i see no pressing reason to change
-mike


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Re: [gentoo-dev] Monthly Gentoo Council Reminder for October

2007-10-02 Thread Chris Gianelloni
On Tue, 2007-10-02 at 02:08 +, Jorge Manuel B. S. Vicetto wrote:
  Let's assume that the new Council will preside from October through
  September.  This would have elections done by September 30th, and
  nominations starting on August 1st, as we usually do 1 month for
  nominations and one month for voting.
  
 
 I agree with you on both points.
 However, the council still needs to approve it as it is a change of
 policy and so that no one has any doubts / objections later.

No, it isn't.  The policy is that the Council presides for one year.
Giving them only 11 meetings would be a change in policy.

-- 
Chris Gianelloni
Release Engineering Strategic Lead
Alpha/AMD64/x86 Architecture Teams
Games Developer/Foundation Trustee
Gentoo Foundation


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Re: [gentoo-dev] Monthly Gentoo Council Reminder for October

2007-10-02 Thread Chris Gianelloni
On Tue, 2007-10-02 at 12:23 -0700, Chris Gianelloni wrote:
 On Tue, 2007-10-02 at 02:08 +, Jorge Manuel B. S. Vicetto wrote:
   Let's assume that the new Council will preside from October through
   September.  This would have elections done by September 30th, and
   nominations starting on August 1st, as we usually do 1 month for
   nominations and one month for voting.
   
  
  I agree with you on both points.
  However, the council still needs to approve it as it is a change of
  policy and so that no one has any doubts / objections later.
 
 No, it isn't.  The policy is that the Council presides for one year.
 Giving them only 11 meetings would be a change in policy.

Err... right.  Last meeting we changed this, which means it already has
been approved by the Council.  It was just the last Council, not the new
one.

-- 
Chris Gianelloni
Release Engineering Strategic Lead
Alpha/AMD64/x86 Architecture Teams
Games Developer/Foundation Trustee
Gentoo Foundation


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[gentoo-dev] Monthly Gentoo Council Reminder for October

2007-10-01 Thread Mike Frysinger
This is your monthly friendly reminder !  Same bat time (typically
the 2nd Thursday at 2000 UTC / 1600 EST), same bat channel
(#gentoo-council @ irc.freenode.net) !

If you have something you'd wish for us to chat about, maybe even
vote on, let us know !  Simply reply to this e-mail for the whole
Gentoo dev list to see.

Keep in mind that every GLEP *re*submission to the council for review
must first be sent to the gentoo-dev mailing list 7 days (minimum)
before being submitted as an agenda item which itself occurs 7 days
before the meeting.  Simply put, the gentoo-dev mailing list must be
notified at least 14 days before the meeting itself.

For more info on the Gentoo Council, feel free to browse our homepage:
http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/council/
-- 
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Re: [gentoo-dev] Monthly Gentoo Council Reminder for October

2007-10-01 Thread Ferris McCormick
On Mon, 2007-10-01 at 05:30 +, Mike Frysinger wrote:
 This is your monthly friendly reminder !  Same bat time (typically
 the 2nd Thursday at 2000 UTC / 1600 EST), same bat channel
 (#gentoo-council @ irc.freenode.net) !
 
 If you have something you'd wish for us to chat about, maybe even
 vote on, let us know !  Simply reply to this e-mail for the whole
 Gentoo dev list to see.
 
Two topics:  The first substantive, the second procedural.

Substantive
--- 
It is not clear whether or not Gentoo currently has a Code of Conduct or
even if the Council wishes it to.  As you know, we do have a draft of
one, at least, but it is not complete.  Now, that in itself is not a
problem because a final Code requires an iterative process based on
experience and feedback.  If we start with a final Code of Conduct, it
will be wrong and subject to revision anyway.

What are not clear are (1) whether the Code of Conduct is in effect; (2)
if so, how we enforce it.  Code of Conduct explicitly calls out a
Proctors group as its executive arm, but previous Council disbanded the
proctors.  So as it stands, if we are serious about a Code of Conduct,
we have to resurrect the proctors or some equivalent enforcement
mechanism.  If we are not serious about having a Code of Conduct, I'd
like Council to explain why not.  (As an aside, I will mention that
devrel does receive complaints on occasion which would properly fall
under the Code of Conduct and proctor control --- either because any
policy violation complained of falls under the Code of Conduct better
than under a devrel problem, or because it is a user/developer issue, or
because by the time it gets to us it's stale, or  You might get the
idea.)  Anyway, Code of Conduct status needs clarification and action.

I can go on with this at length, but perhaps this reply is not the place
for it.

Procedural
--

The election for this Council and its aftermath shows that we are not
sure how to handle a situation in which it appears a candidate will not
be able to serve if elected.  As a more extreme example than the one we
faced this time, suppose a candidate resigns or is suspended.  I am
still not sure, for example, who are actually Council members right now.

 Keep in mind that every GLEP *re*submission to the council for review
 must first be sent to the gentoo-dev mailing list 7 days (minimum)
 before being submitted as an agenda item which itself occurs 7 days
 before the meeting.  Simply put, the gentoo-dev mailing list must be
 notified at least 14 days before the meeting itself.
 
 For more info on the Gentoo Council, feel free to browse our homepage:
 http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/council/

Flames to someplace else, please.  Otherwise, as always, comments,
corrections, additions, etc. welcome.

Regards,
Ferris
-- 
Ferris McCormick (P44646, MI) [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Developer, Gentoo Linux (Devrel, Sparc)



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RE: [gentoo-dev] Monthly Gentoo Council Reminder for October

2007-10-01 Thread Chrissy Fullam
 From: Ferris McCormick [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 Subject: Re: [gentoo-dev] Monthly Gentoo Council Reminder for October
 
 Substantive
 ---
 It is not clear whether or not Gentoo currently has a Code of 
 Conduct or even if the Council wishes it to.  
 (1) whether the Code of Conduct is in effect; 
 (2) if so, how we enforce it.  
 (3) Code of Conduct explicitly calls out a Proctors group as its
 executive arm, but previous Council disbanded the proctors.  
 (4) If we are not serious about having a Code of Conduct, I'd 
 like Council to explain why not.  

I think these are best addressed by Council members and look forward to that
discussion. We can clearly see where Council disbanded the Proctors project
(http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/council/meeting-logs/20070712-summary.txt),
but it does not answer how the CoC would be enforced or if it should be
rolled into a more general policy, enforced by existing teams (DevRel or
UserRel come to mind.) I'm sure assumptions were made, however, they were
not documented.

 I will mention that devrel does receive complaints on 
 occasion which would properly fall under the Code of Conduct 
 and proctor control --- either because any policy violation 
 complained of falls under the Code of Conduct better than 
 under a devrel problem,

Developer Relations has had no problem, reported or otherwise discussed,
with addressing these issues.

 or because it is a user/developer issue, 

Requests that are user/developer issue in nature should currently either go
through User Relations or Developer Relations, depending on the nature,
though we work together fine.

 or because by the time it gets to us it's stale, 

I'm not aware of any issue escalated to Developer Relations that was stale
by the time we were made aware, though I suppose the term stale is subject
to interpretation.
 
 Anyway, Code of Conduct status needs clarification and action.

It seems that there is some confusion and that would certainly call for
documented clarification.
 
 Procedural
 --
 
 The election for this Council and its aftermath shows that we 
 are not sure how to handle a situation in which it appears a 
 candidate will not be able to serve if elected.  As a more 
 extreme example than the one we faced this time, suppose a 
 candidate resigns or is suspended.  I am still not sure, for 
 example, who are actually Council members right now.

The current council is located on the Council page.
http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/council/

Flameeyes did send an email, that vapier resent for those who didn't get it,
where flameeyes agreed that jokey would be his proxy while he focused on
getting better and getting back to Gentoo work.

In the past we have had Council members leave and be replaced, though I
don't see the policy for that. Perhaps that should be included in the
discussion of what to do when a Council member, even if they have a proxy,
is away for an extended period or undetermined period of time.

Maybe I've shed some insight, maybe I've confused some of you more, however
I think these are good topics for discussion in the upcoming Council
meeting.

Kind regards,
Christina Fullam
Gentoo Developer Relations Lead | Gentoo Public Relations 


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RE: [gentoo-dev] Monthly Gentoo Council Reminder for October

2007-10-01 Thread Chris Gianelloni
On Mon, 2007-10-01 at 07:33 -0700, Chrissy Fullam wrote:
 In the past we have had Council members leave and be replaced, though I
 don't see the policy for that. Perhaps that should be included in the
 discussion of what to do when a Council member, even if they have a proxy,
 is away for an extended period or undetermined period of time.

The last Council decided (hell if I know which meeting) that we would
proceed in the following manner:

- Look at next in line from the election
- Vote on acceptance of this new member, if 100% for, member is
initiated into the Council, otherwise...
- Hold a new nominations/vote for the remainder of the term

Now, in both cases for the last Council, we accepted the next member and
continued about our business.

-- 
Chris Gianelloni
Release Engineering Strategic Lead
Alpha/AMD64/x86 Architecture Teams
Games Developer/Foundation Trustee
Gentoo Foundation


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Re: [gentoo-dev] Monthly Gentoo Council Reminder for October

2007-10-01 Thread Jorge Manuel B. S. Vicetto
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Hi.

Mike Frysinger wrote:
 This is your monthly friendly reminder !  Same bat time (typically
 the 2nd Thursday at 2000 UTC / 1600 EST), same bat channel
 (#gentoo-council @ irc.freenode.net) !
 
 If you have something you'd wish for us to chat about, maybe even
 vote on, let us know !  Simply reply to this e-mail for the whole
 Gentoo dev list to see.
 

I would also like to raise two procedural issues that have resulted from
this council's election process and that I feel need to be resolved in
the beginning of its term:

1. Due to the tardiness in the election process, there was no council
meeting in September. Will this council have 11 meetings or will its
term end in September of next year?

2. Regardless of the decision about the above, we should define a clear
schedule for the council's election to ensure that the previous issue
doesn't happen anymore. Given that we have a 1 month election period for
the council, preceded by a 15 day(?) nomination period, that means that
the election process must start before the last meeting of the existing
council. So, if the election were to be held during August, the
nomination should start on July 15th. I propose the election officials
be chosen at the same date - so as not to delay the process.

- --
Regards,

Jorge Vicetto (jmbsvicetto) - jmbsvicetto at gentoo dot org
Gentoo- forums / Userrel / SPARC
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Re: [gentoo-dev] Monthly Gentoo Council Reminder for October

2007-10-01 Thread Jorge Manuel B. S. Vicetto
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Chris Gianelloni wrote:
 On Mon, 2007-10-01 at 21:54 +, Jorge Manuel B. S. Vicetto wrote:
 1. Due to the tardiness in the election process, there was no council
 meeting in September. Will this council have 11 meetings or will its
 term end in September of next year?
 
 There's no need for us to be so strict.  I see no reason why the new
 Council can't have their full year.  In fact, I'm so confident in it
 being all fair to give them a full year that I propose we just accept it
 and not bother discussing it further.  ;]  The previous 2 Councils had
 their 12 meetings, why shouldn't this one?
 
 2. Regardless of the decision about the above, we should define a clear
 schedule for the council's election to ensure that the previous issue
 doesn't happen anymore. Given that we have a 1 month election period for
 the council, preceded by a 15 day(?) nomination period, that means that
 the election process must start before the last meeting of the existing
 council. So, if the election were to be held during August, the
 nomination should start on July 15th. I propose the election officials
 be chosen at the same date - so as not to delay the process.
 
 Let's assume that the new Council will preside from October through
 September.  This would have elections done by September 30th, and
 nominations starting on August 1st, as we usually do 1 month for
 nominations and one month for voting.
 

I agree with you on both points.
However, the council still needs to approve it as it is a change of
policy and so that no one has any doubts / objections later.
I still insist that the election officials should be selected as soon as
the nomination period starts to avoid any delays on the voting - we
should never again enter an election without having election officials.

- --
Regards,

Jorge Vicetto (jmbsvicetto) - jmbsvicetto at gentoo dot org
Gentoo- forums / Userrel / SPARC
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Re: [gentoo-dev] Monthly Gentoo Council Reminder for October

2006-10-03 Thread Mike Frysinger
On Sunday 01 October 2006 02:18, Mike Frysinger wrote:
 This is your monthly friendly reminder !  Same bat time (typically the
 2nd Thursday at 2000 UTC), same bat channel (#gentoo-council @
 irc.freenode.net) !

due to some council members needing to do lame stuff like study for school, 
this has been pushed back to the 19th
-mike


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[gentoo-dev] Monthly Gentoo Council Reminder for October

2006-10-01 Thread Mike Frysinger
This is your monthly friendly reminder !  Same bat time (typically the
2nd Thursday at 2000 UTC), same bat channel (#gentoo-council @
irc.freenode.net) !

If you have something you'd wish for us to chat about, maybe even
vote on, let us know !  Simply reply to this e-mail for the whole
Gentoo dev list to see.

Keep in mind that every GLEP *re*submission to the council for review
must first be sent to the gentoo-dev mailing list 7 days (minimum)
before being submitted as an agenda item which itself occurs 7 days
before the meeting.  Simply put, the gentoo-dev mailing list must be
notified at least 14 days before the meeting itself.

For more info on the Gentoo Council, feel free to browse our homepage:
http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/council/
-- 
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