Re: [gentoo-dev] [RFC] New QA policy: Packages must not disable installing manpages via USE flags

2019-07-27 Thread Kent Fredric
On Thu, 25 Jul 2019 23:56:33 -0400 desultory wrote: > Since when is anyone proposing extirpating man pages on the whole? I am > simply making the rather simple suggestion that pulling in more packages > to support presently optional documentation as newly mandated > documentation when such

Re: [gentoo-dev] [RFC] New QA policy: Packages must not disable installing manpages via USE flags

2019-07-25 Thread desultory
On 07/25/19 04:14, Kent Fredric wrote: > On Thu, 25 Jul 2019 00:10:49 -0400 > desultory wrote: > >> The user-side effects pf the proposal in question, were it to become >> policy, would be that anyone seeking to not install what is presently >> optional documentation would either be: >> (1)

Re: [gentoo-dev] [RFC] New QA policy: Packages must not disable installing manpages via USE flags

2019-07-25 Thread Kent Fredric
On Thu, 25 Jul 2019 00:10:49 -0400 desultory wrote: > The user-side effects pf the proposal in question, were it to become > policy, would be that anyone seeking to not install what is presently > optional documentation would either be: > (1) wasting build time and space (and, depending on

Re: [gentoo-dev] [RFC] New QA policy: Packages must not disable installing manpages via USE flags

2019-07-24 Thread desultory
On 07/24/19 10:40, Kent Fredric wrote: > On Tue, 23 Jul 2019 23:56:52 -0400 > desultory wrote: > >> avoid optional documentation, >> while the proposal in question explicitly would > > I assume you meant 'optional dependencies' here right? :) > The user-side effects pf the proposal in

Re: [gentoo-dev] [RFC] New QA policy: Packages must not disable installing manpages via USE flags

2019-07-24 Thread Kent Fredric
On Tue, 23 Jul 2019 23:56:52 -0400 desultory wrote: > avoid optional documentation, > while the proposal in question explicitly would I assume you meant 'optional dependencies' here right? :) pgp36j4n0ZoM_.pgp Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: [gentoo-dev] [RFC] New QA policy: Packages must not disable installing manpages via USE flags

2019-07-23 Thread desultory
On 07/23/19 09:02, Jaco Kroon wrote: > Hi Michał, > > On 2019/07/23 14:39, Michał Górny wrote: >> On Wed, 2019-07-24 at 00:17 +1200, Kent Fredric wrote: >>> On Tue, 23 Jul 2019 13:38:28 +0200 >>> Gerion Entrup wrote: >>> What about a compromise?: Deliver a (prebuild) manpage as package

Re: [gentoo-dev] [RFC] New QA policy: Packages must not disable installing manpages via USE flags

2019-07-23 Thread Haelwenn (lanodan) Monnier
[2019-07-21 08:36:41-0700] Christopher Head: > On July 20, 2019 1:22:39 PM PDT, "Michał Górny" wrote: > >Yes, I get it. User experience is not important if it would mean > >developers would actually do anything but the bare minimum to get > >from one paycheck to another. The usual Gentoo

Re: [gentoo-dev] [RFC] New QA policy: Packages must not disable installing manpages via USE flags

2019-07-23 Thread Aaron Bauman
On Mon, Jul 22, 2019 at 09:04:07PM -0400, Aaron Bauman wrote: > On Sat, Jul 20, 2019 at 08:50:29PM +0300, Andrew Savchenko wrote: > > On Wed, 17 Jul 2019 15:25:10 +0200 Michał Górny wrote: > > > Hello, > > > > > > The QA team would like to introduce the following policy: > > > > > > """ > > >

Re: [gentoo-dev] [RFC] New QA policy: Packages must not disable installing manpages via USE flags

2019-07-23 Thread Michał Górny
On Wed, 2019-07-24 at 00:59 +1200, Kent Fredric wrote: > On Tue, 23 Jul 2019 14:39:16 +0200 > Michał Górny wrote: > > > > Failure to do this will mean you're shipping out-dated documentation to > > > the user. > > > > I fail to see how this could happen, unless you'd be using terrible > >

Re: [gentoo-dev] [RFC] New QA policy: Packages must not disable installing manpages via USE flags

2019-07-23 Thread Jaco Kroon
Hi Michał, On 2019/07/23 14:39, Michał Górny wrote: On Wed, 2019-07-24 at 00:17 +1200, Kent Fredric wrote: On Tue, 23 Jul 2019 13:38:28 +0200 Gerion Entrup wrote: What about a compromise?: Deliver a (prebuild) manpage as package maintainer by default, but keep a use flag "man-build" (or

Re: [gentoo-dev] [RFC] New QA policy: Packages must not disable installing manpages via USE flags

2019-07-23 Thread Kent Fredric
On Tue, 23 Jul 2019 14:39:16 +0200 Michał Górny wrote: > > Failure to do this will mean you're shipping out-dated documentation to > > the user. > > I fail to see how this could happen, unless you'd be using terrible > hacks. What part in my series of steps did you not understand? All that

Re: [gentoo-dev] [RFC] New QA policy: Packages must not disable installing manpages via USE flags

2019-07-23 Thread Michał Górny
On Wed, 2019-07-24 at 00:17 +1200, Kent Fredric wrote: > On Tue, 23 Jul 2019 13:38:28 +0200 > Gerion Entrup wrote: > > > What about a compromise?: > > Deliver a (prebuild) manpage as package maintainer by default, but keep > > a use flag "man-build" (or whatever) that builds the man page for

Re: [gentoo-dev] [RFC] New QA policy: Packages must not disable installing manpages via USE flags

2019-07-23 Thread Kent Fredric
On Tue, 23 Jul 2019 13:38:28 +0200 Gerion Entrup wrote: > What about a compromise?: > Deliver a (prebuild) manpage as package maintainer by default, but keep > a use flag "man-build" (or whatever) that builds the man page for everyone > (also the maintainer herself) with use of the crazy extra

Re: [gentoo-dev] [RFC] New QA policy: Packages must not disable installing manpages via USE flags

2019-07-23 Thread Gerion Entrup
Am Dienstag, 23. Juli 2019, 04:00:07 CEST schrieb Kent Fredric: > On Mon, 22 Jul 2019 21:08:51 -0400 > Aaron Bauman wrote: > > > 1. I want some documentation > > 2. It doesn't ship from upstream (without crazy extra deps) > > 3. Gentoo guy hooked me up and packaged it pre-built with it > > 4.

Re: [gentoo-dev] [RFC] New QA policy: Packages must not disable installing manpages via USE flags

2019-07-22 Thread desultory
On 07/22/19 21:08, Aaron Bauman wrote: > On Sat, Jul 20, 2019 at 06:16:24PM -0400, Rich Freeman wrote: >> On Sat, Jul 20, 2019 at 4:22 PM Michał Górny wrote: >>> >>> >>> Yes, I get it. User experience is not important if it would mean >>> developers would actually do anything but the bare

Re: [gentoo-dev] [RFC] New QA policy: Packages must not disable installing manpages via USE flags

2019-07-22 Thread Kent Fredric
On Mon, 22 Jul 2019 21:08:51 -0400 Aaron Bauman wrote: > 1. I want some documentation > 2. It doesn't ship from upstream (without crazy extra deps) > 3. Gentoo guy hooked me up and packaged it pre-built with it > 4. Thanks! The proposal as-stated is: 1. Documentation requires even 1 additional

Re: [gentoo-dev] [RFC] New QA policy: Packages must not disable installing manpages via USE flags

2019-07-22 Thread Aaron Bauman
On Sun, Jul 21, 2019 at 08:30:03AM +0200, Michał Górny wrote: > On Wed, 2019-07-17 at 12:09 -0700, Matt Turner wrote: > > On Wed, Jul 17, 2019 at 6:25 AM Michał Górny wrote: > > > Hello, > > > > > > The QA team would like to introduce the following policy: > > > > > > """ > > > Packages must

Re: [gentoo-dev] [RFC] New QA policy: Packages must not disable installing manpages via USE flags

2019-07-22 Thread Aaron Bauman
On Sat, Jul 20, 2019 at 06:16:24PM -0400, Rich Freeman wrote: > On Sat, Jul 20, 2019 at 4:22 PM Michał Górny wrote: > > > > > > Yes, I get it. User experience is not important if it would mean > > developers would actually do anything but the bare minimum to get > > from one paycheck to another.

Re: [gentoo-dev] [RFC] New QA policy: Packages must not disable installing manpages via USE flags

2019-07-22 Thread Kent Fredric
On Mon, 22 Jul 2019 21:04:07 -0400 Aaron Bauman wrote: > I am going to divert topics here... "freedom"... like freedom to post on a > mailing list without restriction (e.g. whitelisting) ? Please don't, this ain't going anywhere. pgpPhG_Z53cgV.pgp Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: [gentoo-dev] [RFC] New QA policy: Packages must not disable installing manpages via USE flags

2019-07-22 Thread Aaron Bauman
On Sat, Jul 20, 2019 at 08:50:29PM +0300, Andrew Savchenko wrote: > On Wed, 17 Jul 2019 15:25:10 +0200 Michał Górny wrote: > > Hello, > > > > The QA team would like to introduce the following policy: > > > > """ > > Packages must not disable installing manpages via USE flags (e.g. > > USE=man or

Re: [gentoo-dev] [RFC] New QA policy: Packages must not disable installing manpages via USE flags

2019-07-22 Thread Kent Fredric
On Mon, 22 Jul 2019 09:18:38 -0400 Rich Freeman wrote: > So, > there is a relationship between packages that need to have manpages > pregenerated and the package manager. My objection re: pollution is more to the point that this propagation of mechanisms that are inherently "package manager

Re: [gentoo-dev] [RFC] New QA policy: Packages must not disable installing manpages via USE flags

2019-07-22 Thread Rich Freeman
On Mon, Jul 22, 2019 at 8:35 AM Kent Fredric wrote: > > Though I suspect *literally* using USE flags for this as-is might be > the wrong approach, as that just causes user-side pollution :/ > Maybe in some other situations this might be true, but as I mentioned in my previous email, users who DO

Re: [gentoo-dev] [RFC] New QA policy: Packages must not disable installing manpages via USE flags

2019-07-22 Thread Kent Fredric
On Mon, 22 Jul 2019 11:00:42 +0200 Jaco Kroon wrote: > USE flag to enable/disable bundled packages.  Any packages that gets > committed with this USE flag goes off to a build server that builds the > package and prepares an install (without bundled) and then the man pages > can be scraped

Re: [gentoo-dev] [RFC] New QA policy: Packages must not disable installing manpages via USE flags

2019-07-22 Thread Jaco Kroon
Hi, I'm with Rich on this one.  I trust that like me most of the developers here earn pay checks from elsewhere and that our time here is either completely volunteer work, or towards a purpose that suits that of our employers. Unless there is a way to automate the building of the associated

Re: [gentoo-dev] [RFC] New QA policy: Packages must not disable installing manpages via USE flags

2019-07-21 Thread Christopher Head
On July 20, 2019 1:22:39 PM PDT, "Michał Górny" wrote: >Yes, I get it. User experience is not important if it would mean >developers would actually do anything but the bare minimum to get >from one paycheck to another. The usual Gentoo attitude. Is my experience as a user really improved if a

Re: [gentoo-dev] [RFC] New QA policy: Packages must not disable installing manpages via USE flags

2019-07-21 Thread Fabian Groffen
On 21-07-2019 23:47:02 +1200, Kent Fredric wrote: > Yes, yes, I'm suggesting something perverted like a build server or > system for aggregating built man-pages on gentoo-servers automatically > as part of CI, that end users can just trivially fetch. But that's just > one approach, surely, there

Re: [gentoo-dev] [RFC] New QA policy: Packages must not disable installing manpages via USE flags

2019-07-21 Thread Kent Fredric
On Sat, 20 Jul 2019 22:22:39 +0200 Michał Górny wrote: > Yes, I get it. User experience is not important if it would mean > developers would actually do anything but the bare minimum to get > from one paycheck to another. The usual Gentoo attitude. You of course realise putting more demands

Re: [gentoo-dev] [RFC] New QA policy: Packages must not disable installing manpages via USE flags

2019-07-21 Thread Michał Górny
On Wed, 2019-07-17 at 12:09 -0700, Matt Turner wrote: > On Wed, Jul 17, 2019 at 6:25 AM Michał Górny wrote: > > Hello, > > > > The QA team would like to introduce the following policy: > > > > """ > > Packages must not disable installing manpages via USE flags (e.g. > > USE=man or USE=doc). >

Re: [gentoo-dev] [RFC] New QA policy: Packages must not disable installing manpages via USE flags

2019-07-20 Thread Matt Turner
On Sat, Jul 20, 2019 at 1:22 PM Michał Górny wrote: > > On Sat, 2019-07-20 at 23:04 +0300, Andrew Savchenko wrote: > > On Sat, 20 Jul 2019 20:28:39 +0200 Michał Górny wrote: > > > On Sat, 2019-07-20 at 20:50 +0300, Andrew Savchenko wrote: > > > > On Wed, 17 Jul 2019 15:25:10 +0200 Michał Górny

Re: [gentoo-dev] [RFC] New QA policy: Packages must not disable installing manpages via USE flags

2019-07-20 Thread Andrew Savchenko
On Sun, 21 Jul 2019 00:33:00 +0200 Michał Górny wrote: > On Sat, 2019-07-20 at 18:16 -0400, Rich Freeman wrote: > > On Sat, Jul 20, 2019 at 4:22 PM Michał Górny wrote: > > > > > > Yes, I get it. User experience is not important if it would mean > > > developers would actually do anything but

Re: [gentoo-dev] [RFC] New QA policy: Packages must not disable installing manpages via USE flags

2019-07-20 Thread Michał Górny
On Sat, 2019-07-20 at 18:16 -0400, Rich Freeman wrote: > On Sat, Jul 20, 2019 at 4:22 PM Michał Górny wrote: > > > > Yes, I get it. User experience is not important if it would mean > > developers would actually do anything but the bare minimum to get > > from one paycheck to another. The

Re: [gentoo-dev] [RFC] New QA policy: Packages must not disable installing manpages via USE flags

2019-07-20 Thread Rich Freeman
On Sat, Jul 20, 2019 at 4:22 PM Michał Górny wrote: > > > Yes, I get it. User experience is not important if it would mean > developers would actually do anything but the bare minimum to get > from one paycheck to another. The usual Gentoo attitude. > Not sure where I go to sign up for those

Re: [gentoo-dev] [RFC] New QA policy: Packages must not disable installing manpages via USE flags

2019-07-20 Thread Michał Górny
On Sat, 2019-07-20 at 23:04 +0300, Andrew Savchenko wrote: > On Sat, 20 Jul 2019 20:28:39 +0200 Michał Górny wrote: > > On Sat, 2019-07-20 at 20:50 +0300, Andrew Savchenko wrote: > > > On Wed, 17 Jul 2019 15:25:10 +0200 Michał Górny wrote: > > > > Hello, > > > > > > > > The QA team would like to

Re: [gentoo-dev] [RFC] New QA policy: Packages must not disable installing manpages via USE flags

2019-07-20 Thread Andrew Savchenko
On Sat, 20 Jul 2019 20:28:39 +0200 Michał Górny wrote: > On Sat, 2019-07-20 at 20:50 +0300, Andrew Savchenko wrote: > > On Wed, 17 Jul 2019 15:25:10 +0200 Michał Górny wrote: > > > Hello, > > > > > > The QA team would like to introduce the following policy: > > > > > > """ > > > Packages must

Re: [gentoo-dev] [RFC] New QA policy: Packages must not disable installing manpages via USE flags

2019-07-20 Thread Rich Freeman
On Sat, Jul 20, 2019 at 2:28 PM Michał Górny wrote: > > Could you please read the proposed policy? It explicitly says you are > *not* supposed to force extra deps on users but build manpages for them. > This seems like a significant increase in maintainer effort compared to just leaving things

Re: [gentoo-dev] [RFC] New QA policy: Packages must not disable installing manpages via USE flags

2019-07-20 Thread Michał Górny
On Sat, 2019-07-20 at 20:50 +0300, Andrew Savchenko wrote: > On Wed, 17 Jul 2019 15:25:10 +0200 Michał Górny wrote: > > Hello, > > > > The QA team would like to introduce the following policy: > > > > """ > > Packages must not disable installing manpages via USE flags (e.g. > > USE=man or

Re: [gentoo-dev] [RFC] New QA policy: Packages must not disable installing manpages via USE flags

2019-07-20 Thread Andrew Savchenko
On Wed, 17 Jul 2019 15:25:10 +0200 Michał Górny wrote: > Hello, > > The QA team would like to introduce the following policy: > > """ > Packages must not disable installing manpages via USE flags (e.g. > USE=man or USE=doc). If upstream does not ship prebuilt manpages > and building them

Re: [gentoo-dev] [RFC] New QA policy: Packages must not disable installing manpages via USE flags

2019-07-17 Thread Chí-Thanh Christopher Nguyễn
Michał Górny schrieb: Packages must not disable installing manpages via USE flags a. USE flags that disable building both a program and its manpage I think it seems an implicit goal that this policy should apply to programs and their manpages? In that case, I would suggest to at least

Re: [gentoo-dev] [RFC] New QA policy: Packages must not disable installing manpages via USE flags

2019-07-17 Thread Kent Fredric
On Wed, 17 Jul 2019 15:25:10 +0200 Michał Górny wrote: > What are your comments? I think there's a situation not covered by this prose which is in a bit of a grey area as per the intentions behind it, (but I would argue is otherwise fine). Some systems ship multiple types of documentation, and

Re: [gentoo-dev] [RFC] New QA policy: Packages must not disable installing manpages via USE flags

2019-07-17 Thread Thomas Deutschmann
On 2019-07-17 16:56, Mike Gilbert wrote: > I'm against this. > > I seriously doubt maintainers will take the time/effort to pre-build > and distribute manpages. The end result of this will be additional > hard dependencies on heavyweight packages. I second that. Keep in mind that aside new time

Re: [gentoo-dev] [RFC] New QA policy: Packages must not disable installing manpages via USE flags

2019-07-17 Thread Andrey Utkin
I am also against the part of the proposal about maintainer being responsible to prebuild the docs. I'd also like to note that Gentoo users are empowered to locally bump ebuild versions in this insanely easy way, it almost always works, and it is really useful at times. With this policy, this

Re: [gentoo-dev] [RFC] New QA policy: Packages must not disable installing manpages via USE flags

2019-07-17 Thread Robin H. Johnson
On Wed, Jul 17, 2019 at 09:09:47PM +0300, Mart Raudsepp wrote: > Ühel kenal päeval, K, 17.07.2019 kell 18:05, kirjutas Robin H. Johnson: > > - significantly increases the version bump requirements (can't simply > > copy & local-build & quick-test & commit) > Unrelated to the topic at hand, but I

Re: [gentoo-dev] [RFC] New QA policy: Packages must not disable installing manpages via USE flags

2019-07-17 Thread Matt Turner
On Wed, Jul 17, 2019 at 6:25 AM Michał Górny wrote: > > Hello, > > The QA team would like to introduce the following policy: > > """ > Packages must not disable installing manpages via USE flags (e.g. > USE=man or USE=doc). Xorg libraries use USE=doc to control the build (sometimes) and

Re: [gentoo-dev] [RFC] New QA policy: Packages must not disable installing manpages via USE flags

2019-07-17 Thread Mart Raudsepp
Ühel kenal päeval, K, 17.07.2019 kell 18:05, kirjutas Robin H. Johnson: > - significantly increases the version bump requirements (can't simply > copy & local-build & quick-test & commit) Unrelated to the topic at hand, but I seriously hope this isn't the standard we aim for in our version

Re: [gentoo-dev] [RFC] New QA policy: Packages must not disable installing manpages via USE flags

2019-07-17 Thread Robin H. Johnson
On Wed, Jul 17, 2019 at 03:25:10PM +0200, Michał Górny wrote: > Hello, > > The QA team would like to introduce the following policy: > > """ > Packages must not disable installing manpages via USE flags (e.g. > USE=man or USE=doc). If upstream does not ship prebuilt manpages > and building them

Re: [gentoo-dev] [RFC] New QA policy: Packages must not disable installing manpages via USE flags

2019-07-17 Thread Roy Bamford
On 2019.07.17 14:25, Michał Górny wrote: > Hello, > > The QA team would like to introduce the following policy: > > """ > Packages must not disable installing manpages via USE flags (e.g. > USE=man or USE=doc). If upstream does not ship prebuilt manpages > and building them requires additional

Re: [gentoo-dev] [RFC] New QA policy: Packages must not disable installing manpages via USE flags

2019-07-17 Thread Mike Gilbert
On Wed, Jul 17, 2019 at 9:25 AM Michał Górny wrote: > > Hello, > > The QA team would like to introduce the following policy: > > """ > Packages must not disable installing manpages via USE flags (e.g. > USE=man or USE=doc). If upstream does not ship prebuilt manpages > and building them requires

Re: [gentoo-dev] [RFC] New QA policy: Packages must not disable installing manpages via USE flags

2019-07-17 Thread Michał Górny
On Wed, 2019-07-17 at 15:42 +0200, Haelwenn (lanodan) Monnier wrote: > [2019-07-17 15:25:10+0200] Michał Górny: > > The QA team would like to introduce the following policy: > > > > """ > > Packages must not disable installing manpages via USE flags (e.g. > > USE=man or USE=doc). If upstream

Re: [gentoo-dev] [RFC] New QA policy: Packages must not disable installing manpages via USE flags

2019-07-17 Thread Haelwenn (lanodan) Monnier
[2019-07-17 15:25:10+0200] Michał Górny: > The QA team would like to introduce the following policy: > > """ > Packages must not disable installing manpages via USE flags (e.g. > USE=man or USE=doc). If upstream does not ship prebuilt manpages > and building them requires additional