Re: [gentoo-dev] Add systemd/merged-usr profiles
On 2022-08-31 17:27, Mike Gilbert wrote:
The only pain point I see is for users with /usr on a separate
filesystem and that are not using an appropriate initramfs.
As mentioned on IRC earlier on today, another (although this would be
less of a pain point and more of a sneaky changes to run-time behaviour
of a system) might be ebuilds which rely on PATH precedence of /usr/bin
over /bin to override binaries installed in the latter by other
packages. Some examples:
- app-arch/lbzip2[symlink] - installs /usr/bin/b{,un}zip2 to override
/bin/b{,un}zip2 installed by app-arch/bzip2;
- app-arch/pigz[symlink] - ditto for g{,un}zip and app-arch/gzip;
- app-arch/gzip installs the symlink /bin/uncompress pointing to
gunzip, app-arch/ncompress installs /usr/bin/uncompress pointing to
compress.
There probably are more though, and I feel these will all need a
systemic change - eselect modules? shell aliases? - to how such
overrides are handled. Still, for the time being packages which have
such behaviour controlled by USE flags should me added to
package.use.force of relevant profiles.
--
Marecki
OpenPGP_signature
Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] Add systemd/merged-usr profiles
* Mike Gilbert schrieb am 03.09.22 um 01:11 Uhr: > To more directly answer your question: yes, having /usr on a separate > filesystem is still "supported" with an appropriate initramfs. Thanks, makes me sleep better ;) Maybe this can be pointed out a bit more in the docs, to make this more clear. Thanks again -Marc -- 0x8201F9436611ABF9 - 41C5 71F2 0535 7D66 2E71 6DAA 8201 F943 6611 ABF9 signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] Add systemd/merged-usr profiles
On Fri, Sep 2, 2022 at 11:05 AM Mike Gilbert wrote:
>
> On Fri, Sep 2, 2022 at 9:01 AM Marc Schiffbauer wrote:
> >
> > * Mike Gilbert schrieb am 01.09.22 um 03:38 Uhr:
> > > On Wed, Aug 31, 2022 at 12:29 PM Jaco Kroon wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Hi,
> > > >
> > > > That really depends.
> > > >
> > > > If the expectation is that everything in /usr/{bin,sbin,lib*} needs to
> > > > now fit on / rather than /usr we're queued to re-install a very, very
> > > > large number of hosts.
> > >
> > > You have that reversed: the expectation is that everything in
> > > /{bin,sbin,lib} will fit in /usr. In other words, we move files from /
> > > into /usr.
> >
> > So does this mean, that having /usr on a seperate filesystem remains
> > "supported" but is now only possible with a proper initrd?
>
> Switching to merged-usr does make it pretty much impossible to boot
> without an initramfs if /usr is on a separate filesystem.
>
> Having /usr on a separate filesystem without an initramfs to mount it
> has been "unsupported" for several years; the council made a decision
> on that in 2013 [1].
>
> [1] https://projects.gentoo.org/council/meeting-logs/20130813-summary.txt
To more directly answer your question: yes, having /usr on a separate
filesystem is still "supported" with an appropriate initramfs.
Re: [gentoo-dev] Add systemd/merged-usr profiles
On Fri, Sep 2, 2022 at 9:01 AM Marc Schiffbauer wrote:
>
> * Mike Gilbert schrieb am 01.09.22 um 03:38 Uhr:
> > On Wed, Aug 31, 2022 at 12:29 PM Jaco Kroon wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > That really depends.
> > >
> > > If the expectation is that everything in /usr/{bin,sbin,lib*} needs to
> > > now fit on / rather than /usr we're queued to re-install a very, very
> > > large number of hosts.
> >
> > You have that reversed: the expectation is that everything in
> > /{bin,sbin,lib} will fit in /usr. In other words, we move files from /
> > into /usr.
>
> So does this mean, that having /usr on a seperate filesystem remains
> "supported" but is now only possible with a proper initrd?
Switching to merged-usr does make it pretty much impossible to boot
without an initramfs if /usr is on a separate filesystem.
Having /usr on a separate filesystem without an initramfs to mount it
has been "unsupported" for several years; the council made a decision
on that in 2013 [1].
[1] https://projects.gentoo.org/council/meeting-logs/20130813-summary.txt
Re: [gentoo-dev] Add systemd/merged-usr profiles
* Mike Gilbert schrieb am 01.09.22 um 03:38 Uhr:
> On Wed, Aug 31, 2022 at 12:29 PM Jaco Kroon wrote:
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > That really depends.
> >
> > If the expectation is that everything in /usr/{bin,sbin,lib*} needs to now
> > fit on / rather than /usr we're queued to re-install a very, very large
> > number of hosts.
>
> You have that reversed: the expectation is that everything in
> /{bin,sbin,lib} will fit in /usr. In other words, we move files from /
> into /usr.
So does this mean, that having /usr on a seperate filesystem remains
"supported" but is now only possible with a proper initrd?
-Marc
--
0x8201F9436611ABF9 - 41C5 71F2 0535 7D66 2E71
6DAA 8201 F943 6611 ABF9
signature.asc
Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] Add systemd/merged-usr profiles
> On 31 Aug 2022, at 21:36, Jaco Kroon wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> On 2022/08/31 19:38, Mike Gilbert wrote:
>> On Wed, Aug 31, 2022 at 12:29 PM Jaco Kroon wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> That really depends.
>>>
>>> If the expectation is that everything in /usr/{bin,sbin,lib*} needs to now
>>> fit on / rather than /usr we're queued to re-install a very, very large
>>> number of hosts.
>> You have that reversed: the expectation is that everything in
>> /{bin,sbin,lib} will fit in /usr. In other words, we move files from /
>> into /usr.
>
> That's a relieve, but as per Sam this is only relevant to systemd
> profiles, which for some reason I also completely overlooked as per the
> subject. However, these things do have a tendency to filter through to
> non-systemd systems eventually.
FWIW, our support (as you've sort of noticed before) for split-usr
(Which is related, but distinct, from non-merged -usr) is sort of tenuous
and while it's your right to do such installs, I'd consider at least
not installing new machines with such a configuration
as a way of very gradually phasing it out.
It's often a pain to handle properly. For example,
It's seemingly not possible to (easily, at least, and
portably) handle split-usr (separate /usr, as in
separate partition) in app-arch/zstd with pkg-config,
as pkg-config shouldn't point to the loader script,
but the real library [0].
As you can imagine, these complications together
with other, more pressing bugs, means it is at least
not very high on my list to look into such issues,
even though I do try when such bugs are within
my purview.
[0]
https://github.com/trofi/nix-guix-gentoo/commit/8f194519982fbfabb6b3ca84c0806b1a379b5d06
best,
sam
signature.asc
Description: Message signed with OpenPGP
Re: [gentoo-dev] Add systemd/merged-usr profiles
Hi,
On 2022/08/31 19:38, Mike Gilbert wrote:
> On Wed, Aug 31, 2022 at 12:29 PM Jaco Kroon wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> That really depends.
>>
>> If the expectation is that everything in /usr/{bin,sbin,lib*} needs to now
>> fit on / rather than /usr we're queued to re-install a very, very large
>> number of hosts.
> You have that reversed: the expectation is that everything in
> /{bin,sbin,lib} will fit in /usr. In other words, we move files from /
> into /usr.
That's a relieve, but as per Sam this is only relevant to systemd
profiles, which for some reason I also completely overlooked as per the
subject. However, these things do have a tendency to filter through to
non-systemd systems eventually.
Sorry for the noise.
Kind Regards,
Jaco
Re: [gentoo-dev] Add systemd/merged-usr profiles
> On 31 Aug 2022, at 17:29, Jaco Kroon wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> That really depends.
>
> If the expectation is that everything in /usr/{bin,sbin,lib*} needs to now
> fit on / rather than /usr we're queued to re-install a very, very large
> number of hosts.
Of course, this is only for systemd users anyway. But see floppy's correction.
>
> Kind Regards,
> Jaco
>
> On 2022/08/31 18:01, Jeff Gazso wrote:
>
>> Just out of curiosity, how much pain is this likely to cause existing
>> installations that will need to migrate from a split-usr setup to a
>> merged-usr setup?
>>
>> On Tue, Aug 30, 2022 at 2:28 PM Mike Gilbert wrote:
>> This patch series adds a "merged-usr" feature profile, and subprofiles
>> for each systemd profile.
>>
>> As background: systemd upstream is preparing to drop support for
>> split-usr systems soon. All systemd users on Gentoo will eventually
>> need to migrate to a merged-usr system.
>>
>>
signature.asc
Description: Message signed with OpenPGP
Re: [gentoo-dev] Add systemd/merged-usr profiles
On Wed, Aug 31, 2022 at 12:29 PM Jaco Kroon wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> That really depends.
>
> If the expectation is that everything in /usr/{bin,sbin,lib*} needs to now
> fit on / rather than /usr we're queued to re-install a very, very large
> number of hosts.
You have that reversed: the expectation is that everything in
/{bin,sbin,lib} will fit in /usr. In other words, we move files from /
into /usr.
Re: [gentoo-dev] Add systemd/merged-usr profiles
Hi,
That really depends.
If the expectation is that everything in /usr/{bin,sbin,lib*} needs to
now fit on / rather than /usr we're queued to re-install a very, very
large number of hosts.
Kind Regards,
Jaco
On 2022/08/31 18:01, Jeff Gazso wrote:
> Just out of curiosity, how much pain is this likely to cause existing
> installations that will need to migrate from a split-usr setup to a
> merged-usr setup?
>
> On Tue, Aug 30, 2022 at 2:28 PM Mike Gilbert wrote:
>
> This patch series adds a "merged-usr" feature profile, and subprofiles
> for each systemd profile.
>
> As background: systemd upstream is preparing to drop support for
> split-usr systems soon. All systemd users on Gentoo will eventually
> need to migrate to a merged-usr system.
>
>
Re: [gentoo-dev] Add systemd/merged-usr profiles
On Wed, Aug 31, 2022 at 12:01 PM Jeff Gazso wrote: > > Just out of curiosity, how much pain is this likely to cause existing > installations that will need to migrate from a split-usr setup to a > merged-usr setup? We haven't deployed this to users, so feedback is limited thus far. At least a handful of Gentoo devs have successfully migrated real systems from split-usr to merged-usr without any major problems. It's a relatively simple process: move the existing files (see sys-apps/merge-usr), flip the split-usr USE flag off, and then run "emege --update --deep --changed-use @world". The only pain point I see is for users with /usr on a separate filesystem and that are not using an appropriate initramfs. This has been an "unsupported" configuration on Gentoo for several years, but there are probably some users who do it anyway.
Re: [gentoo-dev] Add systemd/merged-usr profiles
Just out of curiosity, how much pain is this likely to cause existing installations that will need to migrate from a split-usr setup to a merged-usr setup? On Tue, Aug 30, 2022 at 2:28 PM Mike Gilbert wrote: > This patch series adds a "merged-usr" feature profile, and subprofiles > for each systemd profile. > > As background: systemd upstream is preparing to drop support for > split-usr systems soon. All systemd users on Gentoo will eventually > need to migrate to a merged-usr system. > > >
