Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: RFC: install linux-firmware with kernel sources (was Re: Lastrite: Firmware cleanup, part #1)
Regarding licensing issues, maybe we could take fedora package as reference for clarifying firmware licenses and so: http://pkgs.fedoraproject.org/cgit/linux-firmware.git/tree/linux-firmware.spec signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: RFC: install linux-firmware with kernel sources (was Re: Lastrite: Firmware cleanup, part #1)
On Sun, Feb 17, 2013 at 7:08 AM, Rick Zero_Chaos Farina zeroch...@gentoo.org wrote: 1.) No new firmware is being added to the linux kernel anymore, so this doesn't apply at all. Of course it applies — interaction of make modules_install with emerging linux-firmware can result in collisions. And before you write yet another dismissive email — yes, I know that for users not using savedconfig there will most likely be no collisions due to kernel's modules_install overwriting existing files. 2.) Fun fact but I don't see how that make much difference to anyone or this thread. It is relevant in the sense that it is not straightforward to prevent the kernel from installing firmware in /lib/firmware, which might result in collisions. -- Maxim Kammerer Liberté Linux: http://dee.su/liberte
Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: RFC: install linux-firmware with kernel sources (was Re: Lastrite: Firmware cleanup, part #1)
Maxim Kammerer schrieb: On Sat, Feb 16, 2013 at 8:14 AM, Rick Zero_Chaos Farina zeroch...@gentoo.org wrote: Kernel sources providing /lib/firmware itself shouldn't be a problem either, as that's just a dir, which many packages may own. The individual firmware files would be a problem, but the USE=firmware RDEPEND solution should solve that. What is everyone's opinion of adding a USE=firmware option to pull in PDEPEND=linux-firmware in linux-2.eclass? Not exactly an opinion, but a couple of notes: 1. Kernel's make modules_install triggers make firmware_install, which installs a strict subset of linux-firmware (for enabled modules — e.g., 3com/typhoon.bin). A way to work around that is to supply INSTALL_FW_PATH=... to make. Most if not all such conflicts can be avoided by USE=deblob Best regards, Chí-Thanh Christopher Nguyễn
Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: RFC: install linux-firmware with kernel sources (was Re: Lastrite: Firmware cleanup, part #1)
Rick Zero_Chaos Farina schrieb: What is everyone's opinion of adding a USE=firmware option to pull in PDEPEND=linux-firmware in linux-2.eclass? No, USE flags that trigger only dependencies and do not change the package should be restricted to virtuals or metapackages, with as few exceptions as possible. Best regards, Chí-Thanh Christopher Nguyễn
Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: RFC: install linux-firmware with kernel sources (was Re: Lastrite: Firmware cleanup, part #1)
On Sat, Feb 16, 2013 at 8:14 AM, Rick Zero_Chaos Farina zeroch...@gentoo.org wrote: Kernel sources providing /lib/firmware itself shouldn't be a problem either, as that's just a dir, which many packages may own. The individual firmware files would be a problem, but the USE=firmware RDEPEND solution should solve that. What is everyone's opinion of adding a USE=firmware option to pull in PDEPEND=linux-firmware in linux-2.eclass? Not exactly an opinion, but a couple of notes: 1. Kernel's make modules_install triggers make firmware_install, which installs a strict subset of linux-firmware (for enabled modules — e.g., 3com/typhoon.bin). A way to work around that is to supply INSTALL_FW_PATH=... to make. 2. CONFIG_PREVENT_FIRMWARE_BUILD=y does not prevent installing firmware by make modules_install. 3. Trough all this firmware discussion, everyone is acting as if it's obvious that linux-firmware was always preferred to individual packages. This is not the case — some Gentoo developers didn't even know about linux-firmware when creating individual packages, as is evident from messages in discussion. I tried to figure which to use some time ago, and came to conclusion that more often than not, individual packages are preferable, because they are versioned/slotted and go through a proper stabilization process (e.g., iwlwifi). Perhaps that conclusion was incorrect, but the point is that information on the subject was scarce, to say the least. -- Maxim Kammerer Liberté Linux: http://dee.su/liberte
Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: RFC: install linux-firmware with kernel sources (was Re: Lastrite: Firmware cleanup, part #1)
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 02/16/2013 10:29 AM, Maxim Kammerer wrote: On Sat, Feb 16, 2013 at 8:14 AM, Rick Zero_Chaos Farina zeroch...@gentoo.org wrote: Kernel sources providing /lib/firmware itself shouldn't be a problem either, as that's just a dir, which many packages may own. The individual firmware files would be a problem, but the USE=firmware RDEPEND solution should solve that. What is everyone's opinion of adding a USE=firmware option to pull in PDEPEND=linux-firmware in linux-2.eclass? Not exactly an opinion, but a couple of notes: 1. Kernel's make modules_install triggers make firmware_install, which installs a strict subset of linux-firmware (for enabled modules — e.g., 3com/typhoon.bin). A way to work around that is to supply INSTALL_FW_PATH=... to make. 2. CONFIG_PREVENT_FIRMWARE_BUILD=y does not prevent installing firmware by make modules_install. 3. Trough all this firmware discussion, everyone is acting as if it's obvious that linux-firmware was always preferred to individual packages. This is not the case — some Gentoo developers didn't even know about linux-firmware when creating individual packages, as is evident from messages in discussion. I tried to figure which to use some time ago, and came to conclusion that more often than not, individual packages are preferable, because they are versioned/slotted and go through a proper stabilization process (e.g., iwlwifi). Perhaps that conclusion was incorrect, but the point is that information on the subject was scarce, to say the least. 1.) No new firmware is being added to the linux kernel anymore, so this doesn't apply at all. 2.) Fun fact but I don't see how that make much difference to anyone or this thread. 3.) I'm sorry if it is not yet obvious to people that this is a package upstream has been moving slowly towards requiring, but, they have. My email was SPECIFICALLY addressing this by suggesting that we add it as a pdep (optionally) to show people just how important it is. - -Zero -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iQIcBAEBAgAGBQJRIGXGAAoJEKXdFCfdEflKIuEQAIrB+R3ADrgdG5Q7aqUTy3+H o1K0eEpBKMg6Fi8q9um0b2mxw0lqUAgeob+RdKzkaFATueFmLB8DU8BUBr3RTSxe XxQ2KcAsfJxWqBcHx/wFwqXyVkink+AhXg/956hUa0I3TpSjsc7BkPHjIaJw3QBb AjwpUpr9T0CVpovTQ8LcFaNfxIH1kHcXku0cX8ZC72vXEDZN9My9QBGPsH6HTYPE TA6PSviBQimODookyaAYgkOzBlqDA98ClZb7sY7zmo4Ca/e0wC3eSVexwNxo7Nfr +4mMzTy8TPwv7hckAgZiOzDQ7RQKC+s7f2/gHXNENb9ittd8aBc982tfxlF6wTgc PHXsn+owgA/VQsVlyMw6ctUFgW3lDeQBuc9/WPgGXvfTvSUQ1ROhg7DmBH7Iyr1C 8l04sL3kmZ9PqAw2j13Kf56mxFaFA+L/uwhV6cAw2rEpLpIfvwV9trR+BmO69Hem tph58uh6cGXfWOXtUM+kEacXswvWpLi0yD8/g3WH8jbkGBIobKf6deYcbkPjZWyQ STm/Qq6xHyibpBBBZWgungvSG5gvf+73crq+femjKUgB7yCVnXaMrTODSXVKhkX0 sZ+K+Bp5XqexVGlcbLvtXmIW7OJB4L7Yiml5zzx6Vqu/hMld/CSdLo/3rLf2TCSW IhfHQl5LKrFt0MGyFLR/ =n36q -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: RFC: install linux-firmware with kernel sources (was Re: Lastrite: Firmware cleanup, part #1)
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 02/12/2013 05:30 PM, Christopher Head wrote: On Tue, 12 Feb 2013 20:51:15 + (UTC) Duncan 1i5t5.dun...@cox.net wrote: Christopher Head posted on Tue, 12 Feb 2013 11:38:14 -0800 as excerpted: On Sun, 10 Feb 2013 20:43:02 +0100 Dirkjan Ochtman d...@gentoo.org wrote: On Sun, Feb 10, 2013 at 5:54 PM, Fabio Erculiani lx...@gentoo.org wrote: +1 from me; I've had a few machines break on kernel upgrades because I didn't have the proper firmware installed (I guess older kernel sources came with the firmware?). For starters, if kernel sources provide /lib/firmware, how do you deal with file collisions? Please don't make kernel sources RDEPEND on firmware. The kernel DOES NOT depend on firmware to work properly. Well over half my machines prove that: they work perfectly fine (read: 100% of their hardware works) with no firmware at all installed. Not a problem as long as the RDEPEND is under USE=firmware or similar. No USE=firmware, no rdepend! =:^) Kernel sources providing /lib/firmware itself shouldn't be a problem either, as that's just a dir, which many packages may own. The individual firmware files would be a problem, but the USE=firmware RDEPEND solution should solve that. Yes, of course, I meant please don’t depend unconditionally. A conditional depend is fine by me, and I don’t care about one random directory being created—I just don’t want a whole package being pulled in for nothing. While much of this thread is un-actionable I believe this is a good idea to do. What is everyone's opinion of adding a USE=firmware option to pull in PDEPEND=linux-firmware in linux-2.eclass? Thanks, Zero -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iQIcBAEBAgAGBQJRHyO1AAoJEKXdFCfdEflKV/UQAI3NTvDcGQs7hjzhkecIgxNh 11OLTv43CxLRUg4OeYJppeavxvV//LPIdroVUS2e7GgF3fQ++8HKa5s9xUzi7pmy FoWgzoTG+IeTu7NF6MVMbyLO1hhH59+TEapBn4IFE4Da7qgK+3JrbF7Lx4cpxgnL s7pJxQ2Fvm6x8Bz7NUwi4R1xnYKUJhEvxOJVCtWeChjr8c2u0zHahHnmAs9bdyeF pnE4O7RD4I+lBUNI4kJGVM8EMK31LwFLgfyHkX8mPUyXQ9rA5+ofnxAHRIuV2zEA g1f59f8b46VUy3mAJ296EXz//GZ+KxMtucAAwNLpEHEKoEj4Ypyb7rfQTlsSxUXu kXVpB7bcDah5wT4i++UFpzzTx+wLVUxgOf/idRCUqDB8l2VqSSIqq6yJ+YA3eLoY wCd9wEXR2sHaHxlwYvakMr0na3lAMIopPAM0t/0cwwIJYXlScYw6f5iEUDSo1if6 B+pUw7Hst4XsRWcQpzfjnR3tiKK9U7vTc58blz7pkkZo2cV/+PLlFzQf+WlPaxzU ZRzcxoZnQFDifu/eXLQdVNzIfAuAzCYXiU2Rv3gowmwXlUuCQiyYcYUioCMRwFwt 7yPEXIGsMCX02sjLammF9ZM2RdyKjt/daKc1vMU29aMF/WB8T1nYUKVY/XZmJ+YR YrDEf3MaIKbKoXXRuINy =y/cz -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: RFC: install linux-firmware with kernel sources (was Re: Lastrite: Firmware cleanup, part #1)
On Tue, 12 Feb 2013 20:51:15 + (UTC) Duncan 1i5t5.dun...@cox.net wrote: Christopher Head posted on Tue, 12 Feb 2013 11:38:14 -0800 as excerpted: On Sun, 10 Feb 2013 20:43:02 +0100 Dirkjan Ochtman d...@gentoo.org wrote: On Sun, Feb 10, 2013 at 5:54 PM, Fabio Erculiani lx...@gentoo.org wrote: +1 from me; I've had a few machines break on kernel upgrades because I didn't have the proper firmware installed (I guess older kernel sources came with the firmware?). For starters, if kernel sources provide /lib/firmware, how do you deal with file collisions? Please don't make kernel sources RDEPEND on firmware. The kernel DOES NOT depend on firmware to work properly. Well over half my machines prove that: they work perfectly fine (read: 100% of their hardware works) with no firmware at all installed. Not a problem as long as the RDEPEND is under USE=firmware or similar. No USE=firmware, no rdepend! =:^) Kernel sources providing /lib/firmware itself shouldn't be a problem either, as that's just a dir, which many packages may own. The individual firmware files would be a problem, but the USE=firmware RDEPEND solution should solve that. Yes, of course, I meant please don’t depend unconditionally. A conditional depend is fine by me, and I don’t care about one random directory being created—I just don’t want a whole package being pulled in for nothing. Chris
Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: RFC: install linux-firmware with kernel sources (was Re: Lastrite: Firmware cleanup, part #1)
On 02/12/2013 09:43 PM, Duncan wrote: Christopher Head posted on Tue, 12 Feb 2013 11:39:57 -0800 as excerpted: On Sun, 10 Feb 2013 14:49:03 -0800 Alec Warner anta...@gentoo.org wrote: Most external firmware is not needed to boot. If you need it to boot, you will have to stow it in the initramfs. or the kernel itself ... For those of us who prefer monolithic kernels, virtually all firmware is needed to boot. Even if a network interface doesn't need to be operational for boot, the kernel insists that the firmware be available right at boot or else it will fail and the interface will never appear. I'm a monolithic kernel guy myself, and I simply build-in the firmware I need (three radeon firmware files, IIRC, used to be tg3 as well until that mobo died). dito. And FWIW, I didn't really know about linux-firmware either, but google knew when I asked it about the files the kernel errors spit out. =:^) And I didn't actually install it, either. I simply grabbed the tarball and extracted the files I needed, placing them where the kernel could find them. from cross distro source etc. I wonder how that linux-firmware serves it all will handle different versions of one firmware-filename with disjunct sets of supported hardware revisions. Random files in /lib/firmware out of packet manager space it is (form me). -- Michael Weber Gentoo Developer web: https://xmw.de/ mailto: Michael Weber x...@gentoo.org
