Re: [gentoo-dev] Revival of Gentoo BugDay: everyone is welcome to come debug

2020-06-12 Thread Aisha Tammy
On 6/12/20 10:54 AM, Jaco Kroon wrote:
> Hi Aisha,
> 
> On 2020/06/12 13:44, Aisha Tammy wrote:
>> On 6/12/20 6:55 AM, Jaco Kroon wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> Can we possibly include the concept of "helping to file bug reports" here?
>>>
>>> For example, I've got an issue (which hasn't annoyed me just quite
>>> enough yet to put effort in) where on bootup after xdm init script
>>> starts it takes ~2 minutes before slim login is displayed.  But I don't
>>> know enough of the workings of that to even understand if this is an
>>> Xorg or slim (or dbus) bug ...
>>>
>> BugDay is not for creating bugs, its for squashing them.
>>
>> You can create the bugs today and then if it is in one of the top voted 
>> categories (old bugs, in this case) you might be able to convince interested 
>> devs to target your specific ones.
> 
> Fair enough.
> 
> In this case I've no idea where to start with filing a sensible bug
> though :).  So what it really boils down to is that I think we need to
> provide a way to help users help us by providing the ability to interact
> with people (Yea, #gentoo works up to a point) that can assist with
> basic trouble-shooting to point people towards that which could be the
> problem to help with filing better bug reports.
> 
> I've been hunting a graphics terminal corruption issue with urxvt now,
> and in the man page you get this:
> 
>    [Please note that many X servers (and libXft) are buggy with
> respect to "-depth 32"
>    and/or alpha channels, and will cause all sorts of graphical
> corruption. This is
>    harmless, but we can't do anything about this, so watch out]
> 
> So where to from here?  Researching that it seems most other similar
> reports relate to 4th-gen intel graphics ... heck, this was even
> attributed to pango at some point, and some other dock launcher which
> name I can't remember now.  I've now explicitly set depth to 24 so I'll
> know soon enough if this is the issue.  To confuse the matter even more,
> I've had the same corruption using aterm, and in xterm as well.  But it
> *only* seems to happen with terminal emulators.
> 
> Then there is the issue I described above.
> 
> Currently I have another two or three *desktop* related issues that
> plague me, none of which are easy to point where the bug may actually
> be, so to file a bug given this is hard.
> 
> Anyway, count me in on bugday if I can be there at all.  This should be
> interesting.
Without knowing any specifics this looks like it might be either related to
font aliasing/ encoding. If there are open bugs for all of them, they would
be a good candidate for investigating the X font rendering library (libXft).

For people who don't know how to file bugs:
 You can go on bugs.gentoo.org and look around if these are already filed
else open new bugs.
> 
> Looking at the previous bug day there is one thing I don't see:
> 
> How does this approach work?  In oher words, the lead-up and
> organization seems to be fairly well spelt out - but how does it work on
> the day?  When does it actually start? Or is this a world-wide rolling
> time GMT+12 starts waking up until GMT-12 starts heading to bed?  This
> is the opportunity to market the event.
> 
Good point!
Information dump time -
The next bugday is on 4th July (and every first saturday of the month, from 
then on)
It is a world wide event, with a lot of flexibility on timing.
Its not constrained to just GMT or a particular time zone. 
The event will mostly be dependent on when devs and other people start rolling 
in and ramping up. We will continue going until people get tired and/or 
a sensible amount of time to be called a "day" has passed, 

Most of the interaction will be happening on #gentoo-bugday, with devs talking 
about
bugs that they are working on. Users are welcome to come and interact but don't
expect us to be trouble shooting for you. Any specific interesting bugs that
you can report, the more wide ranging effects of that bug, the more likely it is
that somebody will pick it up.

How you can help: there are a lot of open bugs on bugzilla but it is hard to
pinpoint what the exact reasons for every bug are. It is possible that some
bugs get ignore for a long time and become legacy.
You can help is find a lot of related bugs that you think can be solved at the 
same
time, because they seem to be sharing the same problem.
These kinds of bugs will be very useful to know.

Or you can just show up to motivate us and cheer us on, that helps too :)

Aisha


> Kind Regards,
> Jaco
> 
>>
>> Aisha
>>
>>> Guessing #gentoo may also be of help in regards to the above, so this is
>>> really just a suggestion.  Yes, it will generate more bugs, but
>>> hopefully the concept will allow for creating targeted bugs rather than
>>> overly generic difficult to trouble-shoot bugs.
>>>
>>> Kind Regards,
>>> Jaco
>>>
>>> On 2020/06/11 14:41, Aisha Tammy wrote:
>>>
 # Gentoo BugDay




 Come join us over at #gentoo-bugday on 

Re: [gentoo-dev] Revival of Gentoo BugDay: everyone is welcome to come debug

2020-06-12 Thread Jaco Kroon
Hi Aisha,

On 2020/06/12 13:44, Aisha Tammy wrote:
> On 6/12/20 6:55 AM, Jaco Kroon wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> Can we possibly include the concept of "helping to file bug reports" here?
>>
>> For example, I've got an issue (which hasn't annoyed me just quite
>> enough yet to put effort in) where on bootup after xdm init script
>> starts it takes ~2 minutes before slim login is displayed.  But I don't
>> know enough of the workings of that to even understand if this is an
>> Xorg or slim (or dbus) bug ...
>>
> BugDay is not for creating bugs, its for squashing them.
>
> You can create the bugs today and then if it is in one of the top voted 
> categories (old bugs, in this case) you might be able to convince interested 
> devs to target your specific ones.

Fair enough.

In this case I've no idea where to start with filing a sensible bug
though :).  So what it really boils down to is that I think we need to
provide a way to help users help us by providing the ability to interact
with people (Yea, #gentoo works up to a point) that can assist with
basic trouble-shooting to point people towards that which could be the
problem to help with filing better bug reports.

I've been hunting a graphics terminal corruption issue with urxvt now,
and in the man page you get this:

   [Please note that many X servers (and libXft) are buggy with
respect to "-depth 32"
   and/or alpha channels, and will cause all sorts of graphical
corruption. This is
   harmless, but we can't do anything about this, so watch out]

So where to from here?  Researching that it seems most other similar
reports relate to 4th-gen intel graphics ... heck, this was even
attributed to pango at some point, and some other dock launcher which
name I can't remember now.  I've now explicitly set depth to 24 so I'll
know soon enough if this is the issue.  To confuse the matter even more,
I've had the same corruption using aterm, and in xterm as well.  But it
*only* seems to happen with terminal emulators.

Then there is the issue I described above.

Currently I have another two or three *desktop* related issues that
plague me, none of which are easy to point where the bug may actually
be, so to file a bug given this is hard.

Anyway, count me in on bugday if I can be there at all.  This should be
interesting.

Looking at the previous bug day there is one thing I don't see:

How does this approach work?  In oher words, the lead-up and
organization seems to be fairly well spelt out - but how does it work on
the day?  When does it actually start? Or is this a world-wide rolling
time GMT+12 starts waking up until GMT-12 starts heading to bed?  This
is the opportunity to market the event.

Kind Regards,
Jaco

>
> Aisha
>
>> Guessing #gentoo may also be of help in regards to the above, so this is
>> really just a suggestion.  Yes, it will generate more bugs, but
>> hopefully the concept will allow for creating targeted bugs rather than
>> overly generic difficult to trouble-shoot bugs.
>>
>> Kind Regards,
>> Jaco
>>
>> On 2020/06/11 14:41, Aisha Tammy wrote:
>>
>>> # Gentoo BugDay
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Come join us over at #gentoo-bugday on freenode IRC on the first Saturday 
>>> of every month
>>>
>>>
>>> to squash bugs and make Gentoo a bit more awesome.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> You don't need to be a Gentoo developer or even a coder to help us on 
>>> BugDay.
>>>
>>>
>>> Our next BugDay is on 4th July 2020 and we have started making preparations 
>>> for
>>> selecting and prioritizing bug categories for that day.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ## Bug categories
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> The bug categories should be broad enough that there will be a lot of bugs 
>>> being
>>>
>>> targeted.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> We keep a option poll open to everybody to help us narrow down the 
>>> categories of bugs to focus.
>>>
>>>
>>> The opinion poll is there to get an input from everyone about how to best 
>>> tackle the
>>>
>>>
>>> current bug situation and get an understanding of the community and 
>>> developer priorities.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> The poll is open at https://dudle.inf.tu-dresden.de/Bugday_2020-07-04/
>>>
>>>
>>> Be sure to vote in the poll to get your opinion heard.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ## For developers
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Even if you have never coded for Gentoo you can help us with your 
>>> experience.
>>>
>>> It's always valuable to have your experience to guide us.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Things to help with
>>>
>>>
>>> - Find a related bug that piques your interest.
>>>
>>>
>>> - Look at upstream if this has been reported to them.
>>>
>>>
>>> - If not, make a bug report to the upstream developers.
>>>
>>>
>>> - If they have already seen it, check if they have managed to patch it.
>>>
>>>
>>> - If not, try to gather as much information as you can about the bug so that
>>>
>>>
>>>   it may help the developer tackling it.
>>>
>>>
>>> - Alert us at #gentoo-bugday and interact with us to see if this can be 
>>> squashed.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ## For users
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 

Re: [gentoo-dev] Revival of Gentoo BugDay: everyone is welcome to come debug

2020-06-12 Thread Aisha Tammy
On 6/12/20 6:55 AM, Jaco Kroon wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> Can we possibly include the concept of "helping to file bug reports" here?
> 
> For example, I've got an issue (which hasn't annoyed me just quite
> enough yet to put effort in) where on bootup after xdm init script
> starts it takes ~2 minutes before slim login is displayed.  But I don't
> know enough of the workings of that to even understand if this is an
> Xorg or slim (or dbus) bug ...
> 
BugDay is not for creating bugs, its for squashing them.

You can create the bugs today and then if it is in one of the top voted 
categories (old bugs, in this case) you might be able to convince interested 
devs to target your specific ones.

Aisha

> Guessing #gentoo may also be of help in regards to the above, so this is
> really just a suggestion.  Yes, it will generate more bugs, but
> hopefully the concept will allow for creating targeted bugs rather than
> overly generic difficult to trouble-shoot bugs.
> 
> Kind Regards,
> Jaco
> 
> On 2020/06/11 14:41, Aisha Tammy wrote:
> 
>> # Gentoo BugDay
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Come join us over at #gentoo-bugday on freenode IRC on the first Saturday of 
>> every month
>>
>>
>> to squash bugs and make Gentoo a bit more awesome.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> You don't need to be a Gentoo developer or even a coder to help us on BugDay.
>>
>>
>> Our next BugDay is on 4th July 2020 and we have started making preparations 
>> for
>> selecting and prioritizing bug categories for that day.
>>
>>
>>
>> ## Bug categories
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> The bug categories should be broad enough that there will be a lot of bugs 
>> being
>>
>> targeted.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> We keep a option poll open to everybody to help us narrow down the 
>> categories of bugs to focus.
>>
>>
>> The opinion poll is there to get an input from everyone about how to best 
>> tackle the
>>
>>
>> current bug situation and get an understanding of the community and 
>> developer priorities.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> The poll is open at https://dudle.inf.tu-dresden.de/Bugday_2020-07-04/
>>
>>
>> Be sure to vote in the poll to get your opinion heard.
>>
>>
>>
>> ## For developers
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Even if you have never coded for Gentoo you can help us with your experience.
>>
>> It's always valuable to have your experience to guide us.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Things to help with
>>
>>
>> - Find a related bug that piques your interest.
>>
>>
>> - Look at upstream if this has been reported to them.
>>
>>
>> - If not, make a bug report to the upstream developers.
>>
>>
>> - If they have already seen it, check if they have managed to patch it.
>>
>>
>> - If not, try to gather as much information as you can about the bug so that
>>
>>
>>   it may help the developer tackling it.
>>
>>
>> - Alert us at #gentoo-bugday and interact with us to see if this can be 
>> squashed.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ## For users
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Users are one of the most important part of Gentoo and this is the occasion 
>> for
>>
>>
>> them to talk the developers and make your bugs looked at.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Take a look at the categories for BugDay at the poll link and the final 
>> BugDay
>>
>>
>> wiki page
>>
>>
>> - Find a related bug that you have experienced and has not been fixed yet
>>
>>
>> - Try to see how it can be reproduced.Gnome not doing proper logins on you 
>> laptop?
>>
>>
>> - The related bug reports have been ignored for months you say?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Come poke us about these bugs at #gentoo-bugday on the freenode IRC and we 
>> will
>> begin squashing any of
>>  
>> those that are pending.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ## Whats in it for me?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Bragging rights, permanently being listed on the charts of BugDay, sense of 
>> entitlement.
>>
>>
>>
>> Any person who helps us solve valid problems will be given the honor of 
>> being listed on
>>
>> the page.
>>
>> Even users who help related bugs and find links which make our problem 
>> solving easier
>>
>> will be put on a pedestal.
>>
>>
>>
>> ## Contributors
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks a lot to jstein@ for being the gracious organizer and making sure 
>> everything
>>
>>
>> goes smoothly.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> And special thanks to contributors who have worked on our previous BugDays.
>>
>> Past contributors:
>>
>>
>> - https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Bugday_2020-06-06
>>
> 




Re: [gentoo-dev] Revival of Gentoo BugDay: everyone is welcome to come debug

2020-06-12 Thread Jaco Kroon
Hi,

Can we possibly include the concept of "helping to file bug reports" here?

For example, I've got an issue (which hasn't annoyed me just quite
enough yet to put effort in) where on bootup after xdm init script
starts it takes ~2 minutes before slim login is displayed.  But I don't
know enough of the workings of that to even understand if this is an
Xorg or slim (or dbus) bug ...

Guessing #gentoo may also be of help in regards to the above, so this is
really just a suggestion.  Yes, it will generate more bugs, but
hopefully the concept will allow for creating targeted bugs rather than
overly generic difficult to trouble-shoot bugs.

Kind Regards,
Jaco

On 2020/06/11 14:41, Aisha Tammy wrote:

> # Gentoo BugDay
>
>
>
>
> Come join us over at #gentoo-bugday on freenode IRC on the first Saturday of 
> every month
>
>
> to squash bugs and make Gentoo a bit more awesome.
>
>
>
>
> You don't need to be a Gentoo developer or even a coder to help us on BugDay.
>
>
> Our next BugDay is on 4th July 2020 and we have started making preparations 
> for
> selecting and prioritizing bug categories for that day.
>
>
>
> ## Bug categories
>
>
>
>
> The bug categories should be broad enough that there will be a lot of bugs 
> being
>
> targeted.
>
>
>
>
> We keep a option poll open to everybody to help us narrow down the categories 
> of bugs to focus.
>
>
> The opinion poll is there to get an input from everyone about how to best 
> tackle the
>
>
> current bug situation and get an understanding of the community and developer 
> priorities.
>
>
>
>
> The poll is open at https://dudle.inf.tu-dresden.de/Bugday_2020-07-04/
>
>
> Be sure to vote in the poll to get your opinion heard.
>
>
>
> ## For developers
>
>
>
>
> Even if you have never coded for Gentoo you can help us with your experience.
>
> It's always valuable to have your experience to guide us.
>
>
>
>
> Things to help with
>
>
> - Find a related bug that piques your interest.
>
>
> - Look at upstream if this has been reported to them.
>
>
> - If not, make a bug report to the upstream developers.
>
>
> - If they have already seen it, check if they have managed to patch it.
>
>
> - If not, try to gather as much information as you can about the bug so that
>
>
>   it may help the developer tackling it.
>
>
> - Alert us at #gentoo-bugday and interact with us to see if this can be 
> squashed.
>
>
>
>
> ## For users
>
>
>
>
> Users are one of the most important part of Gentoo and this is the occasion 
> for
>
>
> them to talk the developers and make your bugs looked at.
>
>
>
>
> Take a look at the categories for BugDay at the poll link and the final BugDay
>
>
> wiki page
>
>
> - Find a related bug that you have experienced and has not been fixed yet
>
>
> - Try to see how it can be reproduced.Gnome not doing proper logins on you 
> laptop?
>
>
> - The related bug reports have been ignored for months you say?
>
>
>
>
> Come poke us about these bugs at #gentoo-bugday on the freenode IRC and we 
> will
> begin squashing any of
>  
> those that are pending.
>
>
>
>
> ## Whats in it for me?
>
>
>
>
> Bragging rights, permanently being listed on the charts of BugDay, sense of 
> entitlement.
>
>
>
> Any person who helps us solve valid problems will be given the honor of being 
> listed on
>
> the page.
>
> Even users who help related bugs and find links which make our problem 
> solving easier
>
> will be put on a pedestal.
>
>
>
> ## Contributors
>
>
>
>
> Thanks a lot to jstein@ for being the gracious organizer and making sure 
> everything
>
>
> goes smoothly.
>
>
>
>
> And special thanks to contributors who have worked on our previous BugDays.
>
> Past contributors:
>
>
> - https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Bugday_2020-06-06
>