Re: [gentoo-dev] opinion on how to improve the website redesign
Grant Goodyear wrote: It's interesting to compare http://wwwredesign.gentoo.org/ with http://www.aaronshi.com/gentoo/mainindex.html. One of the things that I always liked about the original design was the fact that the front page held a considerable amount of information without needing much vertical scrolling. On the other hand, I like the fact that the current iteration says something about what Gentoo actually is, which just seems like a good idea on the front page. (Although I'd prefer to modify the text a bit so that it starts with Gentoo is and is limited to just one or two sentences.) I agree. Why we don't use that original design? , i think removing all that vertical scrolling for the front page is a good thing, and the search box looks handy too. In fact, I've been thinking that it might be nice to remove the news from the front page altogether (we could always have a news.gentoo.org for people who mainly use the site for news), which would leave plenty of space for the Documentation, Resources, and Community panels with limited scrolling. I also like this suggestion. We probably could make better usage of the front page other than posting a bunch of GWN. -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] opinion on how to improve the website redesign
On Tuesday 22 November 2005 01:32, Corey Shields wrote: On Monday 21 November 2005 01:07 pm, Chris Gianelloni wrote: I thought that Daniel was taking the red bubble letters. I also remember the discussion about the infinity logo way back then and the decision was made to keep it. For one, it is very easy to print, I thought that the vote was for a website redesign, not a logo redesign. I agree that the infinity sign should go. No other Gentoo text on that page has the sign, so it looks out of place and inconsistent to have it in one spot. What about replacing the infinity sign by two o's that have been nudged a bit together to approximate an infinity sign without breaking the continuity of the text? Paul -- Paul de Vrieze Gentoo Developer Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Homepage: http://www.devrieze.net pgpRkondmoJfQ.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] opinion on how to improve the website redesign
Luis F. Araujo wrote: I agree. Why we don't use that original design? , i think removing all that vertical scrolling for the front page is a good thing, and the search box looks handy too. They would need to coordinate with infra on how they would like to implement a search function. For now, I think its best if they focus their attention on the design and navigation and try to work on the search box later. -- Lance Albertson [EMAIL PROTECTED] Gentoo Infrastructure | Operations Manager --- GPG Public Key: http://www.ramereth.net/lance.asc Key fingerprint: 0423 92F3 544A 1282 5AB1 4D07 416F A15D 27F4 B742 ramereth/irc.freenode.net signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] opinion on how to improve the website redesign
On Tue, Nov 22, 2005 at 08:09:44AM -0600, Lance Albertson wrote: Luis F. Araujo wrote: I agree. Why we don't use that original design? , i think removing all that vertical scrolling for the front page is a good thing, and the search box looks handy too. They would need to coordinate with infra on how they would like to implement a search function. For now, I think its best if they focus their attention on the design and navigation and try to work on the search box later. why does infra need to be involved ? cant we just have the form send users to google ? -mike -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] opinion on how to improve the website redesign
On Tue, 22 Nov 2005 00:04:53 -0500 Mike Frysinger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: or you could make it the dropdown list so people can pick bugs.gentoo.org/gentoo.org/forums.gentoo.org/whatever Exactly, that's what i would like too. More specificaly, it could be something like this: http://tdegreni.free.fr/gentoosearch/ (from a feature pov sure, i'm not talking about ugliness of the code or the missing CSS) The search form has a keyword field and two levels of sections to target the search. First you can choose beetween: - web search (using Google) - mailing-lists search (using Gmane) - forum search (using the f.g.o CGI) - packages search (using the p.g.o CGI) - bugs search (using the b.g.o CGI) And then, depending on what you have selected here, you can refine your search on the 2nd selection list (page type for web search, specific ML for gmane, forum section, etc.) Sure the problem is that it takes a bit more space than a simple text field. -- TGL. -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] opinion on how to improve the website redesign
On Tue, Nov 22, 2005 at 03:53:22AM +0100, Thomas de Grenier de Latour wrote: A good start could be to do that the quick and ugly way, thanks to Google (with some site:www.gentoo.org/some/thing/ and other black magic in the query terms). [...] Two major obstacles are - Google bases its search functionality on cached pages. I would assume that most people use the search functionality to find documentation which gets updated quite a lot. Google might offer outdated links or forget to point to a valuable resource - We would depend on Google a bit Now Google might be a reliable web site/service, I'd rather have the search functionality of our web site implemented on the Gentoo infrastructure. I would even hope that we can have some tweaking possibilities in our search functionality, such as: - Restricting pages to /doc (documentation), /main (Gentoo information), /news (News items+GWN), /proj (project stuff) - Restricting languages (en, fr, ... and any combination) - Have the search points assigned so that hits are calculated with certain weights: * title's get most of the points, unless many titles are selected * abstract's get the second most points, yada yada * content get third most points Wkr, Sven Vermeulen -- Gentoo Foundation Trustee | http://foundation.gentoo.org Gentoo Documentation Project Lead | http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/gdp Gentoo Council Member The Gentoo Projecthttp://www.gentoo.org pgpI9eelB4DCs.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] opinion on how to improve the website redesign
On Tue, Nov 22, 2005 at 06:51:44PM +0100, Sven Vermeulen wrote: On Tue, Nov 22, 2005 at 03:53:22AM +0100, Thomas de Grenier de Latour wrote: A good start could be to do that the quick and ugly way, thanks to Google (with some site:www.gentoo.org/some/thing/ and other black magic in the query terms). [...] Two major obstacles are - Google bases its search functionality on cached pages. I would assume that most people use the search functionality to find documentation which gets updated quite a lot. Google might offer outdated links or forget to point to a valuable resource - We would depend on Google a bit i dont think these are real issues ... but no reason we cant use this as the quick 'now' solution and then follow it up with stuff on our own infrastructure later on down the road -mike -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] opinion on how to improve the website redesign
On Tue, 22 Nov 2005 18:51:44 +0100 Sven Vermeulen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: A good start could be to do that the quick and ugly way, thanks to Google (with some site:www.gentoo.org/some/thing/ and other black magic in the query terms). [...] - Google bases its search functionality on cached pages. Bah, yes, theory is that it's not 100% perfect, but in practice i find it satisfying. - We would depend on Google a bit Yes, but if other engines offer similar functionalities, in which case it would just be a matter of changing the forms params names and posting it elsewhere. But i don't know much about other public search engines, so i have no idea about what kind of queries they allow. Now Google might be a reliable web site/service, I'd rather have the search functionality of our web site implemented on the Gentoo infrastructure. Sure, if that's doable in terms of workload and time to implement, then it could be the best method. My only concern would be on the choice of that engine: i mean, i would still prefer Google over an internal engine which doesn't allow mixing of exact strings and keywords in queries, or which drops non-alpha chars, etc. I'm suffering enough with the forum's one already :) - Restricting pages to /doc (documentation), /main (Gentoo information), /news (News items+GWN), /proj (project stuff) Not a problem with google, that's the /some/thing/ part of the above cited fake query. I've put some real examples in the proof-of-concept form i've posted about in an earlier message somewhere else in that thread: http://tdegreni.free.fr/gentoosearch/ - Restricting languages (en, fr, ... and any combination) Same as above for searching in a single language, adding some /fr/ to the base URL (or also possible using the lr=lang_fr parameter, although it's less reliable). But for arbitrary combinations, yes, that's probably a limitation (or a really ugly query...). What i've thought for i18n of the above JS code was to: - always at least propose search on the english pages - if user has defined in his browser a non-english preferred language, also add some localised choices to the dropdown list. (I'm not sure how to detect the user preferred lang from Javascript though). - Have the search points assigned so that hits are calculated with certain weights: * title's get most of the points, unless many titles are selected * abstract's get the second most points, yada yada * content get third most points Here again, i think google is good enough for the needs, especially if you target the search on some /doc/en/ or alike sub-parts of the website, which don't let that many pages anyway. I mean, i often do that kind of searchs on the docs or the dev handbook with a conquery plugin, and i don't remember having ever seen the page i was looking for not beeing in the top 5 results. But yes, at least in theory, a tweaked local engine could be even better. Hmm... re-reading the above message, i realize i may sound like some kind of google-zealot: so just to make it clear, i'm not, and i would be pleased to see anything better implemented. It's really just that i think it could do a rather good job and that using it is easy enough to be a really short-term solution. -- TGL. -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] opinion on how to improve the website redesign
On Mon, 21 Nov 2005 14:09:55 + Mike Frysinger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: - the bar at the top which blathers on about what Gentoo has to offer i could do without completely (imo, you can read the About page) What about keeping it on front page only? (with the vertical size issue fixed sure) -- TGL. -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] opinion on how to improve the website redesign
On Mon, Nov 21, 2005 at 03:49:42PM +0100, Thomas de Grenier de Latour wrote: On Mon, 21 Nov 2005 14:09:55 + Mike Frysinger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: - the bar at the top which blathers on about what Gentoo has to offer i could do without completely (imo, you can read the About page) What about keeping it on front page only? (with the vertical size issue fixed sure) that'd be much better than the current situation -mike -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] opinion on how to improve the website redesign
Vapier wrote: [Mon Nov 21 2005, 08:09:55AM CST] - wheres the ufo guy [2] ? at least hide him in the bottom left corner of the page ... it'd keep with the mysterious nature of the fellow [2] http://www.gentoo.org/images/gridtest.gif Drobbins wanted to hang on to Znurt when he left. You're welcome to ask his permission to use it on the new site, as he might have changed his mind since then. -g2boojum- -- Grant Goodyear Gentoo Developer [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.gentoo.org/~g2boojum GPG Fingerprint: D706 9802 1663 DEF5 81B0 9573 A6DC 7152 E0F6 5B76 pgpWEm5641oRJ.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] opinion on how to improve the website redesign
On Mon, 21 Nov 2005 14:09:55 + Mike Frysinger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: | - the 'gentoo' text in the upper left of the page should use the cool | red bubble letters [1] ... or at least drop the infinity sign ... | yeah, the infinity sign is cool, but since it is in such a 'high | profile' location like that, it makes people think of it as a new logo The infinity design makes us look like a bunch of ricers. Kill it! -- Ciaran McCreesh : Gentoo Developer (Look! Shiny things!) Mail: ciaranm at gentoo.org Web : http://dev.gentoo.org/~ciaranm signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] opinion on how to improve the website redesign
On Mon, 2005-11-21 at 15:35 -0500, A. Khattri wrote: On Mon, 21 Nov 2005, Mike Frysinger wrote: - the 'gentoo' text in the upper left of the page should use the cool red bubble letters [1] Never liked the red lettering - very dated. I thought that Daniel was taking the red bubble letters. I also remember the discussion about the infinity logo way back then and the decision was made to keep it. For one, it is very easy to print, whereas the bubble letters are not. This is very useful on a CD where you have very limited color selection. I don't get where people think it is ricer though. Perhaps you guys forget what a meta-distribution is and the infinite possibilities that it presents to the user. -- Chris Gianelloni Release Engineering - Strategic Lead x86 Architecture Team Games - Developer Gentoo Linux signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: [gentoo-dev] opinion on how to improve the website redesign
Ciaran McCreesh wrote: The infinity design makes us look like a bunch of ricers. Kill it! +1 -- Luca Barbato Gentoo/linux Developer Gentoo/PPC Operational Leader http://dev.gentoo.org/~lu_zero -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] opinion on how to improve the website redesign
On Monday 21 November 2005 18:24, Ciaran McCreesh wrote: The infinity design makes us look like a bunch of ricers. Kill it! +1 not like I love the red letters... (the 'g' actually makes it similar to G/FBSD logo, never noted that before)... -- Diego Flameeyes Pettenò - http://dev.gentoo.org/~flameeyes/ Gentoo/ALT lead, Gentoo/FreeBSD, Video, AMD64, Sound, PAM, KDE pgph6piSP9ouS.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] opinion on how to improve the website redesign
It's interesting to compare http://wwwredesign.gentoo.org/ with http://www.aaronshi.com/gentoo/mainindex.html. One of the things that I always liked about the original design was the fact that the front page held a considerable amount of information without needing much vertical scrolling. On the other hand, I like the fact that the current iteration says something about what Gentoo actually is, which just seems like a good idea on the front page. (Although I'd prefer to modify the text a bit so that it starts with Gentoo is and is limited to just one or two sentences.) In fact, I've been thinking that it might be nice to remove the news from the front page altogether (we could always have a news.gentoo.org for people who mainly use the site for news), which would leave plenty of space for the Documentation, Resources, and Community panels with limited scrolling. As an aside, I would prefer to see something fairly soon, even if it's more a face lift than a redesign, than wait another year before we update the site. -g2boojum- -- Grant Goodyear Gentoo Developer [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.gentoo.org/~g2boojum GPG Fingerprint: D706 9802 1663 DEF5 81B0 9573 A6DC 7152 E0F6 5B76 pgp7dudyG23en.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] opinion on how to improve the website redesign
On Monday 21 November 2005 01:07 pm, Chris Gianelloni wrote: I thought that Daniel was taking the red bubble letters. I also remember the discussion about the infinity logo way back then and the decision was made to keep it. For one, it is very easy to print, I thought that the vote was for a website redesign, not a logo redesign. I agree that the infinity sign should go. No other Gentoo text on that page has the sign, so it looks out of place and inconsistent to have it in one spot. -C -- Corey Shields Gentoo Linux Infrastructure Team Gentoo Foundation Board of Trustees http://www.gentoo.org/~cshields pgplyFKPEMo1O.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] opinion on how to improve the website redesign
- Where is the Search for __ in section __ field ? I would expect it somewhere on the top. See http://php.net for a good and tiny one. - I like the infinity sign. It looks cool and professionel (not too commercial). - I don't like the big, purple bar (portage, packages, get gentoo, forums, donage). Get rid of it. Instead, put the headliners from the bottom (documentation, resources, community) here. It just has to be a bit smaller in height (multi column instead?). You could add another Headline (maybe 'Introduction') for new users (topics could be 'Why Gentoo Linux', 'Download', 'Handbook', 'Packages', 'Portage'). - The mentioned headline panel should only be visible on the first page. BUT make sure it doesn't go away if you click one of that panel's links. In that particular case the reader probably is willing to try another link and should not be forced to go back to the main page. - The ads pannel should have a different background color. See a hacked Screenshot at http://public.efil.de/gentoo-www.png -- Ingo Bormuth, voicebox telefax: +49-12125-10226517 '(~o-o~)' public key 86326EC9, http://ibormuth.efil.de/contact ---ooO--(.)--Ooo--- -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] opinion on how to improve the website redesign
On Mon, Nov 21, 2005 at 06:14:15PM -0600, Grant Goodyear wrote: One of the things that I always liked about the original design was the fact that the front page held a considerable amount of information without needing much vertical scrolling. on that note, here is another opinion of mine that occured to me: - the stuff on the bottom is nice (sweet pics btw), but i think it'd be more useful if it replaced the left sidebar we use now ... i.e. just stack em on the left ... In fact, I've been thinking that it might be nice to remove the news from the front page altogether which would leave plenty of space for the Documentation, Resources, and Community panels with limited scrolling. my opinion above would address this concern (which i agree with) -mike -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] opinion on how to improve the website redesign
On Tue, Nov 22, 2005 at 01:53:01AM +0100, Ingo Bormuth wrote: - Where is the Search for __ in section __ field ? I would expect it somewhere on the top. See http://php.net for a good and tiny one. ah, excellent idea ... we get people who ask for this from time to time in bugzilla ... - I don't like the big, purple bar (portage, packages, get gentoo, forums, donage). Get rid of it. Instead, put the headliners from the bottom (documentation, resources, community) here. It just has to be a bit smaller in height (multi column instead?). You could add another Headline (maybe 'Introduction') for new users (topics could be 'Why Gentoo Linux', 'Download', 'Handbook', 'Packages', 'Portage'). condensing the big purple panel into a smaller one would work nicely i think ... and it'd help condense information without losing too much -mike -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] opinion on how to improve the website redesign
On Tue, 22 Nov 2005 01:11:14 + Mike Frysinger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tue, Nov 22, 2005 at 01:53:01AM +0100, Ingo Bormuth wrote: - Where is the Search for __ in section __ field ? I would expect it somewhere on the top. See http://php.net for a good and tiny one. ah, excellent idea ... we get people who ask for this from time to time in bugzilla ... A good start could be to do that the quick and ugly way, thanks to Google (with some site:www.gentoo.org/some/thing/ and other black magic in the query terms). It saves implementation of a real local search engine, and actually works surprinsingly fine. That's what i use in some ConQuery search plugins (a Firefox extension): http://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-380310.html This screenshot shows the filters i have for www.g.o: http://tdegreni.free.fr/gentoo/conquery/gentoo-simple-google-screenshot.png (mailing search et al. are in other plugins, but sure in the case of something like what is on php.net, it would be better in a single form) -- TGL. -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] opinion on how to improve the website redesign
maillog: 22/11/2005-12:05:38(+0900): Георги Георгиев types input type=text name=as_q/ input type=hidden name=as_sitesearch name=gentoo.org/ That ought to be input type=hidden name=as_sitesearch value=gentoo.org/ of course. -- (* Georgi Georgiev (* Mr and Mrs PED, can I borrow 26.7% of the (* *)[EMAIL PROTECTED]*) RAYON TEXTILE production of the INDONESIAN *) (* http://www.gg3.net/ (* archipelago? (* pgpo4uDk94sKM.pgp Description: PGP signature
