Re: [gentoo-dev] rfc: switching default udev provider for new systems to udev

2020-08-12 Thread Tomas Mozes
On Sat, Aug 8, 2020 at 8:51 PM William Hubbs wrote: > All, > > I would like to propose that we switch the default udev provider on new > systems from eudev to udev. > > This is not a lastrites, and it will not affect current systems since > they have to migrate manually. Also, this change can be

Re: [gentoo-dev] rfc: switching default udev provider for new systems to udev

2020-08-11 Thread Piotr Karbowski
On 11/08/2020 15.38, Joonas Niilola wrote: > > On 8/11/20 11:36 AM, Jaco Kroon wrote: >> And I've already provided you one use case where udev doesn't work well >> but eudev does.  I've also mentioned some historic issues I believe >> should already be fixed but which did bit me in systemd-udev

Re: [gentoo-dev] rfc: switching default udev provider for new systems to udev

2020-08-11 Thread Joonas Niilola
On 8/11/20 11:36 AM, Jaco Kroon wrote: > And I've already provided you one use case where udev doesn't work well > but eudev does.  I've also mentioned some historic issues I believe > should already be fixed but which did bit me in systemd-udev which was > never a problem in eudev. > Your

Re: [gentoo-dev] rfc: switching default udev provider for new systems to udev

2020-08-11 Thread Jaco Kroon
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA256 Hi, > As I have said earlier on the thread, we should look at udev and seee if > it breaks things in relation to eudev. That would take some folks > migrating their systems and reporting issues. And I've already provided you one use case where

Re: [gentoo-dev] rfc: switching default udev provider for new systems to udev

2020-08-11 Thread Mart Raudsepp
Ühel kenal päeval, T, 11.08.2020 kell 07:44, kirjutas Michał Górny: > > Examples? > > I suppose nobody remembers the time (the previous year) where eudev > broke reverse dependencies because of wrong version number, and it > took > around 3 months to get a fix (read: changing the version number)

Re: [gentoo-dev] rfc: switching default udev provider for new systems to udev

2020-08-10 Thread Michał Górny
On Mon, 2020-08-10 at 21:55 -0400, Joshua Kinard wrote: > On 8/10/2020 11:22, William Hubbs wrote: > > On Mon, Aug 10, 2020 at 12:00:44AM -0400, Joshua Kinard wrote: > > > On 8/8/2020 14:51, William Hubbs wrote: > > > > All, > > > > > > > > I would like to propose that we switch the default udev

Re: [gentoo-dev] rfc: switching default udev provider for new systems to udev

2020-08-10 Thread Michał Górny
On Tue, 2020-08-11 at 10:59 +0800, Benda Xu wrote: > Hi William, > > William Hubbs writes: > > > No one has offered to switch from eudev to udev and look at > > regressions. People are asking me to show what features exist in udev > > that aren't in eudev. I stuck with udev. I don't use eudev

Re: [gentoo-dev] rfc: switching default udev provider for new systems to udev

2020-08-10 Thread Benda Xu
Hi William, William Hubbs writes: > No one has offered to switch from eudev to udev and look at > regressions. People are asking me to show what features exist in udev > that aren't in eudev. I stuck with udev. I don't use eudev so I don't > know. I don't think imposing a personal preference

Re: [gentoo-dev] rfc: switching default udev provider for new systems to udev

2020-08-10 Thread Joshua Kinard
On 8/10/2020 22:08, Rich Freeman wrote: > On Mon, Aug 10, 2020 at 9:55 PM Joshua Kinard wrote: >> >> On 8/10/2020 11:22, William Hubbs wrote: >>> On Mon, Aug 10, 2020 at 12:00:44AM -0400, Joshua Kinard wrote: If eudev is not broken, then why your proposed fix? >>> >>> bitrot and bus

Re: [gentoo-dev] rfc: switching default udev provider for new systems to udev

2020-08-10 Thread Rich Freeman
On Mon, Aug 10, 2020 at 9:55 PM Joshua Kinard wrote: > > On 8/10/2020 11:22, William Hubbs wrote: > > On Mon, Aug 10, 2020 at 12:00:44AM -0400, Joshua Kinard wrote: > >> > >> If eudev is not broken, then why your proposed fix? > > > > bitrot and bus factor. > > Examples? The sole maintainer of

Re: [gentoo-dev] rfc: switching default udev provider for new systems to udev

2020-08-10 Thread Joshua Kinard
On 8/10/2020 11:22, William Hubbs wrote: > On Mon, Aug 10, 2020 at 12:00:44AM -0400, Joshua Kinard wrote: >> On 8/8/2020 14:51, William Hubbs wrote: >>> All, >>> >>> I would like to propose that we switch the default udev provider on new >>> systems from eudev to udev. >>> >>> This is not a

Re: [gentoo-dev] rfc: switching default udev provider for new systems to udev

2020-08-10 Thread Piotr Karbowski
Hi, To summarize - There's no known bugs in eudev that are not in udev - There's no bug that would be fixed by switch from eudev to udev - There's no new feature that would change eudev to udev bring - Currently musl and glibc profiles uses common eudev, after change we whould have musl profile

Re: [gentoo-dev] rfc: switching default udev provider for new systems to udev

2020-08-10 Thread William Hubbs
On Mon, Aug 10, 2020 at 05:47:52PM +0200, Alexis Ballier wrote: > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > Hash: SHA256 > > On Sat, 8 Aug 2020 13:51:41 -0500 > William Hubbs wrote: > > > All, > > > > I would like to propose that we switch the default udev provider on > > new systems from eudev to

Re: [gentoo-dev] rfc: switching default udev provider for new systems to udev

2020-08-10 Thread Roy Bamford
On 2020.08.10 16:22, William Hubbs wrote: > On Mon, Aug 10, 2020 at 12:00:44AM -0400, Joshua Kinard wrote: > > On 8/8/2020 14:51, William Hubbs wrote: > > > All, > > > > > > I would like to propose that we switch the default udev provider > on new > > > systems from eudev to udev. > > > > > >

Re: [gentoo-dev] rfc: switching default udev provider for new systems to udev

2020-08-10 Thread Alexis Ballier
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA256 On Sat, 8 Aug 2020 13:51:41 -0500 William Hubbs wrote: > All, > > I would like to propose that we switch the default udev provider on > new systems from eudev to udev. > > This is not a lastrites, and it will not affect current systems since >

Re: [gentoo-dev] rfc: switching default udev provider for new systems to udev

2020-08-10 Thread William Hubbs
On Mon, Aug 10, 2020 at 12:00:44AM -0400, Joshua Kinard wrote: > On 8/8/2020 14:51, William Hubbs wrote: > > All, > > > > I would like to propose that we switch the default udev provider on new > > systems from eudev to udev. > > > > This is not a lastrites, and it will not affect current

Re: [gentoo-dev] rfc: switching default udev provider for new systems to udev

2020-08-10 Thread William Hubbs
On Mon, Aug 10, 2020 at 08:49:20AM -0400, Rich Freeman wrote: > On Mon, Aug 10, 2020 at 8:16 AM Thomas Deutschmann wrote: > > > > On 2020-08-10 14:07, Michał Górny wrote: > > > ...or a revert of a change made for change's sake. > > > > That's a bold statement for an unambiguous 7-0 decision as

Re: [gentoo-dev] rfc: switching default udev provider for new systems to udev

2020-08-10 Thread Rich Freeman
On Mon, Aug 10, 2020 at 8:16 AM Thomas Deutschmann wrote: > > On 2020-08-10 14:07, Michał Górny wrote: > > ...or a revert of a change made for change's sake. > > That's a bold statement for an unambiguous 7-0 decision as seen in > https://bugs.gentoo.org/575718. As one who voted yes, my

Re: [gentoo-dev] rfc: switching default udev provider for new systems to udev

2020-08-10 Thread Thomas Deutschmann
On 2020-08-10 14:07, Michał Górny wrote: > ...or a revert of a change made for change's sake. That's a bold statement for an unambiguous 7-0 decision as seen in https://bugs.gentoo.org/575718. -- Regards, Thomas Deutschmann / Gentoo Linux Developer C4DD 695F A713 8F24 2AA1 5638 5849 7EE5 1D5D

Re: [gentoo-dev] rfc: switching default udev provider for new systems to udev

2020-08-10 Thread Michał Górny
On Mon, 2020-08-10 at 09:35 +0200, Ulrich Mueller wrote: > > > > > > On Sun, 09 Aug 2020, William Hubbs wrote: > > There are roughly 100 commits in the udev master branch since the date > > of this sync: > > https://github.com/systemd/systemd/commits/master/src/udev > > And what does this tell

Re: [gentoo-dev] rfc: switching default udev provider for new systems to udev

2020-08-10 Thread Michał Górny
On Mon, 2020-08-10 at 13:52 +0200, Thomas Deutschmann wrote: > On 2020-08-09 23:14, William Hubbs wrote: > > Here is something else to consider. > > > > Blueness and any of the other eudev maintainers are doing good work > > for alternative c library support such as musl. In fact, the musl > >

Re: [gentoo-dev] rfc: switching default udev provider for new systems to udev

2020-08-10 Thread Thomas Deutschmann
On 2020-08-09 23:14, William Hubbs wrote: > Here is something else to consider. > > Blueness and any of the other eudev maintainers are doing good work > for alternative c library support such as musl. In fact, the musl > profiles hard mask sys-fs/udev, so they are covered no matter what >

Re: [gentoo-dev] rfc: switching default udev provider for new systems to udev

2020-08-10 Thread Ulrich Mueller
> On Sun, 09 Aug 2020, William Hubbs wrote: > There are roughly 100 commits in the udev master branch since the date > of this sync: > https://github.com/systemd/systemd/commits/master/src/udev And what does this tell us? Commit count isn't very useful as a metric. Do these commits fix any

Re: [gentoo-dev] rfc: switching default udev provider for new systems to udev

2020-08-09 Thread Joshua Kinard
On 8/8/2020 14:51, William Hubbs wrote: > All, > > I would like to propose that we switch the default udev provider on new > systems from eudev to udev. > > This is not a lastrites, and it will not affect current systems since > they have to migrate manually. Also, this change can be overridden

Re: [gentoo-dev] rfc: switching default udev provider for new systems to udev

2020-08-09 Thread Benda Xu
William Hubbs writes: >> William - can you actually elaborate on WHY you want to change things? >> Is there some problem with eudev? Is it actively maintained and >> generally tracking upstream udev commits (minus whatever they >> intentionally don't want to accept)? > > It is maintained

Re: [gentoo-dev] rfc: switching default udev provider for new systems to udev

2020-08-09 Thread William Hubbs
On Sun, Aug 09, 2020 at 01:22:44PM -0500, William Hubbs wrote: > On Sun, Aug 09, 2020 at 06:40:07PM +0200, Thomas Deutschmann wrote: > > On 2020-08-08 20:51, William Hubbs wrote: > > > What do people think? > > > > Like others already asked: What's the reason for this? > > Like others have

Re: [gentoo-dev] rfc: switching default udev provider for new systems to udev

2020-08-09 Thread Alec Warner
On Sun, Aug 9, 2020 at 11:22 AM William Hubbs wrote: > On Sun, Aug 09, 2020 at 06:40:07PM +0200, Thomas Deutschmann wrote: > > On 2020-08-08 20:51, William Hubbs wrote: > > > What do people think? > > > > Like others already asked: What's the reason for this? > > Like others have said on the

Re: [gentoo-dev] rfc: switching default udev provider for new systems to udev

2020-08-09 Thread William Hubbs
On Sun, Aug 09, 2020 at 06:40:07PM +0200, Thomas Deutschmann wrote: > On 2020-08-08 20:51, William Hubbs wrote: > > What do people think? > > Like others already asked: What's the reason for this? Like others have said on the thread, the reason for the switch away from udev in the past was

Re: [gentoo-dev] rfc: switching default udev provider for new systems to udev

2020-08-09 Thread Thomas Deutschmann
On 2020-08-08 20:51, William Hubbs wrote: > What do people think? Like others already asked: What's the reason for this? What do you expect from this change? Is there a problem when new Gentoo installations will use EUDEV by default? Or is there a benefit if new installations would use

Re: [gentoo-dev] rfc: switching default udev provider for new systems to udev

2020-08-09 Thread Gordon Pettey
On Sat, Aug 8, 2020 at 6:57 PM William Hubbs wrote: > Hi Rich, > > > William - can you actually elaborate on WHY you want to change things? > > Is there some problem with eudev? Is it actively maintained and > > generally tracking upstream udev commits (minus whatever they > > intentionally

Re: [gentoo-dev] rfc: switching default udev provider for new systems to udev

2020-08-08 Thread Michał Górny
On Sat, 2020-08-08 at 21:17 +0100, Roy Bamford wrote: > With the declared aim from upstream of making udev inseparable from > systemd, its not something to be done lightly. > That's the entire reason that eudev was necessary. Really? And I've thought that the primary reason was that udev

Re: [gentoo-dev] rfc: switching default udev provider for new systems to udev

2020-08-08 Thread William Hubbs
Hi Rich, On Sat, Aug 08, 2020 at 06:22:17PM -0400, Rich Freeman wrote: > On Sat, Aug 8, 2020 at 4:17 PM Roy Bamford wrote: > > > > With the declared aim from upstream of making udev inseparable from > > systemd, its not something to be done lightly. > > That's the entire reason that eudev was

Re: [gentoo-dev] rfc: switching default udev provider for new systems to udev

2020-08-08 Thread Rich Freeman
On Sat, Aug 8, 2020 at 6:48 PM Roy Bamford wrote: > > On 2020.08.08 23:22, Rich Freeman wrote: > > On Sat, Aug 8, 2020 at 4:17 PM Roy Bamford > > wrote: > > > > > > With the declared aim from upstream of making udev inseparable from > > > systemd, its not something to be done lightly. > > >

Re: [gentoo-dev] rfc: switching default udev provider for new systems to udev

2020-08-08 Thread Roy Bamford
On 2020.08.08 23:22, Rich Freeman wrote: > On Sat, Aug 8, 2020 at 4:17 PM Roy Bamford > wrote: > > > > With the declared aim from upstream of making udev inseparable from > > systemd, its not something to be done lightly. > > That's the entire reason that eudev was necessary. > > > > I would want

Re: [gentoo-dev] rfc: switching default udev provider for new systems to udev

2020-08-08 Thread Jaco Kroon
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA256 It actually works is enough reason for me.  Was forced to migrate a > bunch of systems not six months back from systemd-udev to eudev because > systemd-udev is absolutely terrible w.r.t. race conditions resulting in > lockups that kept forcing us

Re: [gentoo-dev] rfc: switching default udev provider for new systems to udev

2020-08-08 Thread Rich Freeman
On Sat, Aug 8, 2020 at 4:17 PM Roy Bamford wrote: > > With the declared aim from upstream of making udev inseparable from > systemd, its not something to be done lightly. > That's the entire reason that eudev was necessary. > > I would want some convincing that it was not another step on the road

Re: [gentoo-dev] rfc: switching default udev provider for new systems to udev

2020-08-08 Thread William Hubbs
On Sat, Aug 08, 2020 at 11:38:36PM +0200, Jaco Kroon wrote: > > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > Hash: SHA256 > > Hi, > > On 2020/08/08 22:57, William Hubbs wrote: > > On Sat, Aug 08, 2020 at 09:17:20PM +0100, Roy Bamford wrote: > >> On 2020.08.08 19:51, William Hubbs wrote: > >>> All, >

Re: [gentoo-dev] rfc: switching default udev provider for new systems to udev

2020-08-08 Thread Jaco Kroon
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA256 Hi, On 2020/08/08 22:57, William Hubbs wrote: > On Sat, Aug 08, 2020 at 09:17:20PM +0100, Roy Bamford wrote: >> On 2020.08.08 19:51, William Hubbs wrote: >>> All, >>> >>> I would like to propose that we switch the default udev provider on >>> new

Re: [gentoo-dev] rfc: switching default udev provider for new systems to udev

2020-08-08 Thread William Hubbs
On Sat, Aug 08, 2020 at 09:17:20PM +0100, Roy Bamford wrote: > On 2020.08.08 19:51, William Hubbs wrote: > > All, > > > > I would like to propose that we switch the default udev provider on > > new > > systems from eudev to udev. > > > > This is not a lastrites, and it will not affect current

Re: [gentoo-dev] rfc: switching default udev provider for new systems to udev

2020-08-08 Thread Roy Bamford
On 2020.08.08 19:51, William Hubbs wrote: > All, > > I would like to propose that we switch the default udev provider on > new > systems from eudev to udev. > > This is not a lastrites, and it will not affect current systems since > they have to migrate manually. Also, this change can be

Re: [gentoo-dev] rfc: switching default udev provider for new systems to udev

2020-08-08 Thread Andreas K. Huettel
> I would like to propose that we switch the default udev provider on new > systems from eudev to udev. Well... maybe you could somewhat expand on the why? -- Andreas K. Hüttel dilfri...@gentoo.org Gentoo Linux developer (council, qa, toolchain, base-system, perl, libreoffice) signature.asc