Martin Vaeth wrote:
> Joerg Schilling wrote:
> >
> > bash vs. POSIX, as bash tried to ignore long existing
> > rules just because the bash maintainer did not understand them.
>
> Are there really several? I know only one such example:
One is that "sh -ce cmd" did not exit on error for some kind
Martin Vaeth wrote:
> Joerg Schilling wrote:
> > Martin Vaeth wrote:
> >>
> >> This is not true, either: Although finally bash took some of the
> >> features of zsh (arrays, regular expression matching, etc.) there
> >> are still many features missing in bash (extended globbing, many
> >> varia
Joerg Schilling wrote:
>
> bash vs. POSIX, as bash tried to ignore long existing
> rules just because the bash maintainer did not understand them.
Are there really several? I know only one such example:
bash insists on compound commands ("{ ... }" or "( ... )")
for the function body while accordi
Joerg Schilling wrote:
> Martin Vaeth wrote:
>>
>> This is not true, either: Although finally bash took some of the
>> features of zsh (arrays, regular expression matching, etc.) there
>> are still many features missing in bash (extended globbing, many
>> variable and array operations etc.)
>
> A
Martin Vaeth wrote:
> Neil Bothwick wrote:
> >
> > In one sub-thread we've so far managed to cover:
> >
> > Bash vs Zsh
> > Vim vs Emacs
> > Perl vs Python
>
> not to forget: POSIX vs Bash
Let us better call it bash vs. POSIX, as bash tried to ignore long existing
rules just because the bash m
On Monday 13 July 2015 11:21:22 Joerg Schilling wrote:
> Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
> > On 10/07/15 02:34, Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
> > > I tried it [zsh], for exactly 10 seconds. My home/end keys didn't work.
> > > This gave me the impression of an unfinished project. Why on earth
> > > would anyon
Martin Vaeth wrote:
> Neil Bothwick wrote:
> > As a
> > scripting language, Bash is probably better
>
> This is not true, either: Although finally bash took some of the
> features of zsh (arrays, regular expression matching, etc.) there
> are still many features missing in bash (extended globbin
Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
> On 10/07/15 02:34, Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
> > I tried it [zsh], for exactly 10 seconds. My home/end keys didn't work. This
> > gave me the impression of an unfinished project. Why on earth would
> > anyone release a program after 1990 that doesn't know the home/end ke
Neil Bothwick wrote:
>
> I agree. Being able to customise is good, but the defaults should be
> sensible and appealing to new users.
Yes, but not only new users but also not breaking expectations
of old users are important - it is a subtle balance,
and shells tend to be conservative here (bash is
On Sun, 12 Jul 2015 19:52:34 +0300, Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
> > It is with shells as with editors: Whatever is the default,
> > quite a lot of people will not be satisfied with it.
>
> I disagree. It should work out of the box. People can change it later.
>
> Having it not work at all is just
On 11/07/15 23:56, Martin Vaeth wrote:
Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
I really don't have time to learn arcane settings anymore.
That's why it is good that you can adapt the shell completely
to your needs: My opinion is that the computer must adapt to
*my* habits and not vice versa.
If it doesn'
On Fri, 10 Jul 2015 21:46:05 +1000
wraeth wrote:
> Another thought that I just had was that, if this only occurs after
> running a command in the terminal and having that command output
> something to STDOUT/STDERR, it's possible that it's corrupting your
> terminal - the same as if you accidenta
Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
>
> I really don't have time to learn arcane settings anymore.
That's why it is good that you can adapt the shell completely
to your needs: My opinion is that the computer must adapt to
*my* habits and not vice versa.
> If it doesn't work out of the box
I don't see the
cov...@ccs.covici.com wrote:
>
> I cannot see, so I use speakup or orca to read the screen
I have no experience whether zsh is appropriate for this.
Certainly zshrc-mv is not written with this case in mind,
and probably you should refrain from using
zsh-syntax-highlighting or auto-fu-zsh
(The dup
Martin Vaeth wrote:
> Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
> > On 10/07/15 18:00, Gevisz wrote:
> >> bindkey '^[[7~' beginning-of-line # Home (xterm)
> >> bindkey '^[[8~' end-of-line# End (xterm)
> >
> > lol... are these guys serious?
> >
> > It's 2015...
>
> ...
Am Sat, 11 Jul 2015 13:22:56 +0300
schrieb Nikos Chantziaras :
> On 11/07/15 01:18, Marc Joliet wrote:
> > Am Fri, 10 Jul 2015 20:39:05 +0300
> > schrieb Nikos Chantziaras :
> >
> >> On 10/07/15 18:00, Gevisz wrote:
> >>> bindkey '^[[7~' beginning-of-line # Home (xterm)
> >>> bin
On 11/07/15 01:18, Marc Joliet wrote:
Am Fri, 10 Jul 2015 20:39:05 +0300
schrieb Nikos Chantziaras :
On 10/07/15 18:00, Gevisz wrote:
bindkey '^[[7~' beginning-of-line # Home (xterm)
bindkey '^[[8~' end-of-line# End (xterm)
lol... are these guys ser
Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
> On 10/07/15 18:00, Gevisz wrote:
>> bindkey '^[[7~' beginning-of-line # Home (xterm)
>> bindkey '^[[8~' end-of-line# End (xterm)
>
> lol... are these guys serious?
>
> It's 2015...
... and yet the way of handling special keys i
Am Fri, 10 Jul 2015 20:39:05 +0300
schrieb Nikos Chantziaras :
> On 10/07/15 18:00, Gevisz wrote:
> > bindkey '^[[7~' beginning-of-line # Home (xterm)
> > bindkey '^[[8~' end-of-line# End (xterm)
>
> lol... are these guys serious?
>
> It's 2015...
What
On 10/07/15 18:00, Gevisz wrote:
bindkey '^[[7~' beginning-of-line # Home (xterm)
bindkey '^[[8~' end-of-line# End (xterm)
lol... are these guys serious?
It's 2015...
Neil Bothwick wrote:
>
> In one sub-thread we've so far managed to cover:
>
> Bash vs Zsh
> Vim vs Emacs
> Perl vs Python
not to forget: POSIX vs Bash
> What are your thoughts on KDE, kernel modules or USE=3D"-*"? ;-)
Substitute "kernel modules" by Gnome (incl. systemd, policykit) and add
topic
On Fri, 10 Jul 2015 09:16:01 +0100 Neil Bothwick wrote:
> On Fri, 10 Jul 2015 02:36:50 +0300, Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
>
> > > I tried it [zsh], for exactly 10 seconds. My home/end keys didn't
> > > work. This gave me the impression of an unfinished project. Why on
> > > earth would anyone relea
On Thu, Jul 09, 2015 at 03:37:12PM +0300, Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
> On 09/07/15 15:24, wraeth wrote:
> > On Thu, Jul 09, 2015 at 03:19:19PM +0300, Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
> >> On 09/07/15 14:48, Neil Bothwick wrote:
> >>> On Thu, 09 Jul 2015 13:38:43 +0200, Stephan Müller wrote:
> >>>
> As a
On Fri, 10 Jul 2015 06:18:12 + (UTC), Martin Vaeth wrote:
> > As a
> > scripting language, Bash is probably better
>
> This is not true, either: Although finally bash took some of the
> features of zsh (arrays, regular expression matching, etc.) there
> are still many features missing in bash
On Fri, 10 Jul 2015 02:36:50 +0300, Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
> > I tried it [zsh], for exactly 10 seconds. My home/end keys didn't
> > work. This gave me the impression of an unfinished project. Why on
> > earth would anyone release a program after 1990 that doesn't know the
> > home/end keys? :-/
Neil Bothwick wrote:
> As a
> scripting language, Bash is probably better
This is not true, either: Although finally bash took some of the
features of zsh (arrays, regular expression matching, etc.) there
are still many features missing in bash (extended globbing, many
variable and array operatio
Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
>
> I tried it, for exactly 10 seconds. My home/end keys didn't work.
The default configuration is horrible, and they won't change it
since compatibility with stone age and all zsh features switched
off is a design goal of the defaults. I already wrote on their
list that
Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
> On 10/07/15 02:34, Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
> > I tried it [zsh], for exactly 10 seconds. My home/end keys didn't work. This
> > gave me the impression of an unfinished project. Why on earth would
> > anyone release a program after 1990 that doesn't know the home/end keys
On Fri, Jul 10, 2015 at 02:36:50AM +0300, Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
> On 10/07/15 02:34, Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
> >I tried it [zsh], for exactly 10 seconds. My home/end keys didn't work. This
> >gave me the impression of an unfinished project. Why on earth would
> >anyone release a program after 1
On 10/07/15 02:34, Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
I tried it [zsh], for exactly 10 seconds. My home/end keys didn't work. This
gave me the impression of an unfinished project. Why on earth would
anyone release a program after 1990 that doesn't know the home/end keys?
:-/
PS:
The "Del" key doesn't wo
On 09/07/15 19:07, Neil Bothwick wrote:
On Thu, 09 Jul 2015 15:07:40 +0300, Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
Don't ask such questions ;-)
This is in the same vein as the "emacs vs vim" argument.
True, people persist with Bash and vim, but in the latter case it
appears to be because they actually like
On Thu, 9 Jul 2015 20:45:09 +0300, Gevisz wrote:
> I say "almost no old habits" because I actually have one:
> I used to Ctrl-R to search through the command history in bash
> and so far I have not figured what will be its equivalent in zsh,
Ctrl-R
> especially if to set its "input mode" to vim-
On Thu, 9 Jul 2015 17:07:43 +0100 Neil Bothwick wrote:
> On Thu, 09 Jul 2015 15:07:40 +0300, Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
>
> > >> I can't test it myself as a use a superior shell to
> > >> Bash
> > >
> > > Which one? And why is it superior to bash?
> >
> > Don't ask such questions ;-)
> >
> >
On Thu, 09 Jul 2015 15:07:40 +0300, Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
> >> I can't test it myself as a use a superior shell to
> >> Bash
> >
> > Which one? And why is it superior to bash?
>
> Don't ask such questions ;-)
>
> This is in the same vein as the "emacs vs vim" argument.
True, people persi
On Thu, Jul 09, 2015 at 03:37:12PM +0300, Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
> On 09/07/15 15:24, wraeth wrote:
> > On Thu, Jul 09, 2015 at 03:19:19PM +0300, Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
> >> On 09/07/15 14:48, Neil Bothwick wrote:
> >>> On Thu, 09 Jul 2015 13:38:43 +0200, Stephan Müller wrote:
> >>>
> As a
On Thu, 9 Jul 2015 12:48:24 +0100
Neil Bothwick wrote:
> On Thu, 09 Jul 2015 13:38:43 +0200, Stephan Müller wrote:
>
> > As a wild guess into the blue, it could be related to readline. As I
> > see gentoo's bash uses the standalone readline from coreutils, while
> > the original bash source main
On 09/07/15 15:24, wraeth wrote:
On Thu, Jul 09, 2015 at 03:19:19PM +0300, Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
On 09/07/15 14:48, Neil Bothwick wrote:
On Thu, 09 Jul 2015 13:38:43 +0200, Stephan Müller wrote:
As a wild guess into the blue, it could be related to readline. As I
see gentoo's bash uses the
On Thu, Jul 09, 2015 at 03:19:19PM +0300, Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
> On 09/07/15 14:48, Neil Bothwick wrote:
> > On Thu, 09 Jul 2015 13:38:43 +0200, Stephan Müller wrote:
> >
> >> As a wild guess into the blue, it could be related to readline. As I
> >> see gentoo's bash uses the standalone readlin
On Thu, 09 Jul 2015 15:07:40 +0300 Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
> On 09/07/15 15:01, Gevisz wrote:
> > On Thu, 9 Jul 2015 12:48:24 +0100 Neil Bothwick wrote:
> >
> >> On Thu, 09 Jul 2015 13:38:43 +0200, Stephan Müller wrote:
> >>
> >>> As a wild guess into the blue, it could be related to readline.
On 09/07/15 14:48, Neil Bothwick wrote:
On Thu, 09 Jul 2015 13:38:43 +0200, Stephan Müller wrote:
As a wild guess into the blue, it could be related to readline. As I
see gentoo's bash uses the standalone readline from coreutils, while
the original bash source maintains an own trimmed version o
On 09/07/15 15:01, Gevisz wrote:
On Thu, 9 Jul 2015 12:48:24 +0100 Neil Bothwick wrote:
On Thu, 09 Jul 2015 13:38:43 +0200, Stephan Müller wrote:
As a wild guess into the blue, it could be related to readline. As I
see gentoo's bash uses the standalone readline from coreutils, while
the orig
Am 08.07.2015 um 15:10 schrieb Todd Goodman:
I haven't looked for that specifically in the ssh source code though.
And it sounds like it's happening to people even without interrupting
programs so it's unlikely the cause of all the problems.
I didn't say that SSH is the cause to that, I just s
* Florian Gamböck [150708 03:15]:
> Am 08.07.2015 um 02:48 schrieb walt:
> > Next time this happens I'll include the output of stty -a.
[..SNIP..]
>
> After a small `diff`, the following changes have been made:
> lnext from ^V to ; icrnl, icanon, and echo from on to off (they
> all got prefixed
Florian Gamböck wrote:
> I downloaded and compiled your archive.
>
> $ echo $0
> ./sh/OBJ/x86_64-linux-cc/sh
> $ $0 --version
> sh (Schily Bourne Shell) version 2015/06/27 a+ (x86_64-unknown-linux-gnu)
>
> Copyright (C) 1984-1989 AT&T
> Copyright (C) 1989-2009 Sun Microsystems
> Copyright (C) 198
Hi Jörg,
Am 08.07.2015 um 12:13 schrieb Joerg Schilling:
Sorry for asking, but does Gentoo include the Bourne Shell?
$ readlink /bin/sh
bash
I guess this means "no" ...
If you like to do, the latest portable Bourne Shell is in:
http://sourceforge.net/projects/schilytools/files/schily-2015-0
Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
> On 06/07/15 20:01, walt wrote:
> > This is the problem: occasionally bash gets in a state where it stops
> > echoing the characters I type. The commands I type continue to work
> > properly and I can see the output from them but I can't see the commands
> > on the scr
On 06/07/15 20:01, walt wrote:
This is the problem: occasionally bash gets in a state where it stops
echoing the characters I type. The commands I type continue to work
properly and I can see the output from them but I can't see the commands
on the screen as I type them.
I remember having thi
Florian Gamböck wrote:
> Hi Stephan,
>
> Am 08.07.2015 um 11:28 schrieb Stephan Müller:
> > As you can replicate it reliable, did you test it in Bourne shell?
> > Maybe its not related to bash at all?
>
> $ echo $SHELL
> /bin/bash
Sorry for asking, but does Gentoo include the Bourne Shell?
If
Hi Stephan,
Am 08.07.2015 um 11:28 schrieb Stephan Müller:
As you can replicate it reliable, did you test it in Bourne shell?
Maybe its not related to bash at all?
$ echo $SHELL
/bin/bash
$ bash --version | head -n1
GNU bash, Version 4.3.33(1)-release (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu)
If I use /bin/sh (
Am 08.07.2015 um 11:06 schrieb Florian Gamböck:
I can replicate it 100% when I ssh to another machine and immediately interrupt
it with Ctrl-C.
I hadn't considered this a bug, but after reading this thread I can confirm
that it also happens randomly with other commands. Not sure if there is a
Am 08.07.2015 um 09:00 schrieb Alan McKinnon:
On 08/07/2015 07:00, Anton Shumskyi wrote:
Same for me, but it appears only after I'm canceling some job on
terminal with CTRL+C, maybe in 10% of total cases. I thought that was
some side-effect of switching env back, but because job is terminated in
Am 08.07.2015 um 02:48 schrieb walt:
Next time this happens I'll include the output of stty -a.
Since I just hit this bug I will do it for you if you don't mind. ;-)
I somehow managed to reproduce this issue by typing `ssh
myothermachine`, hitting Enter, and immediately hitting Ctrl-C.
Pheno
On 08/07/2015 07:00, Anton Shumskyi wrote:
> Same for me, but it appears only after I'm canceling some job on
> terminal with CTRL+C, maybe in 10% of total cases. I thought that was
> some side-effect of switching env back, but because job is terminated in
> a "bad way" haven't considered that as a
Same for me, but it appears only after I'm canceling some job on terminal
with CTRL+C, maybe in 10% of total cases. I thought that was some
side-effect of switching env back, but because job is terminated in a "bad
way" haven't considered that as a bug.
2015-07-06 8:09 GMT-06:00 Bill Kenworthy :
> On 07/07/15 04:43, Alex Thorne wrote:
>> I have also experienced this intermittently with bash. Running /reset
>> /returns the shell to normal for me. Echo is also set on for me, but
>> will check if this has changed next time I experience the issue.
>>
On Mon, 6 Jul 2015 20:18:18 +0300
Alexander Kapshuk wrote:
> On Mon, Jul 6, 2015 at 8:01 PM, walt wrote:
> > My bash problem started a few weeks ago but I can't remember when.
> > This problem is intermittent and hard to reproduce. I'm seeing it
> > maybe less than ten times per day but often e
On 07/07/15 04:43, Alex Thorne wrote:
> I have also experienced this intermittently with bash. Running /reset
> /returns the shell to normal for me. Echo is also set on for me, but
> will check if this has changed next time I experience the issue.
>
> On 6 July 2015 at 20:07, »Q« mailto:boxc...@gm
I have also experienced this intermittently with bash. Running *reset *returns
the shell to normal for me. Echo is also set on for me, but will check if
this has changed next time I experience the issue.
On 6 July 2015 at 20:07, »Q« wrote:
> On Mon, 6 Jul 2015 20:18:18 +0300
> Alexander Kapshuk
On Mon, 6 Jul 2015 20:18:18 +0300
Alexander Kapshuk wrote:
> On Mon, Jul 6, 2015 at 8:01 PM, walt wrote:
> > My bash problem started a few weeks ago but I can't remember when.
> > This problem is intermittent and hard to reproduce. I'm seeing it
> > maybe less than ten times per day but often e
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