Re: [gentoo-user] How many people use KDE?
On 1/20/06, Linux Java [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I wanna to know KDE and Gnome which is more popular. I used Gnome for years (5 or 6 maybe?), but have recently switched to kde-3.4 and then now kde-3.5. For me, I wanted to try something different, and it is a nice change. I may swap back eventually, or even go back to Afterstep or Enlightenment, but for now kde-3.5 works for me. Mike -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
RE: [gentoo-user] 2005.1 Universal CD install
-Original Message- From: Holly Bostick [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 29 September 2005 14:43 To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] 2005.1 Universal CD install [snip] The quick compile of the older WMs is not to be sneezed at by any means, and WindowMaker and AfterStep are pretty usable out of the box, even for those who didn't 'grow up with' them, as many old-school users did. IceWM is for those who 'grew up with' Windows, and is probably a better choice for users who 'grew up with' Win95 and 98. [OT warning] I wonder, are there any statistics for what WM's do people use? -- Regards, Mick -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] 2005.1 Universal CD install
vikram ranade schreef: oki I am still stuck at installing gnome..taking forever to compile :-( Sympathies Gnome as a whole isn't so bad; it's just that some of the packages required in the full GNOME monty are among the longest to compile-- most notably mozilla. Even stripped via USE flags (-mozcalendar -mozdevelop +moznocompose +moznoirc +moznomail -moznoxft +mozsvg), it still takes till doomsday to compile, and a number of programs in the full 'gnome' metapackage depend on it. Which is the main reason I hate to bring it up, since you're already in the middle of the compile, but you probably should know which is one of the reasons that I never 'emerge gnome' but always 'emerge gnome-light' instead. But maybe you need Mozilla and Epiphany and Evolution and Evolution Data Server and Sound (bloody) Juicer, in which case, you must suffer the bloated time-consuming compile. On the occasions that I need such an awful compile during the installation process (for instance, I usually want to at least install kdelibs, which also takes forever, because I use a lot of KDE apps, though rarely KDE itself), I usually install a very light WM, like IceWM, as the last stage of install, just to have something I can use to boot into, and have something like a completed system (meaning with X) installed, from which I then compile GNOME or KDE or whatever. Even WindowMaker or AfterStep will do for this purpose, if you like those WMs (and there's plenty to like about them, despite their advanced age and lack of 'modernness'). Heaven knows, they take some 10 or 15 minutes to compile, if that long, and of course system-dependent; I have an Athlon XP 2200+ and 512MB ram, so not really a super-charged setup, though naturally much faster than some of the PIIs and PIIIs I know exist around here-- and the compilation time does not include X of course, but there's no getting around that whatever WM or DE you install. The quick compile of the older WMs is not to be sneezed at by any means, and WindowMaker and AfterStep are pretty usable out of the box, even for those who didn't 'grow up with' them, as many old-school users did. IceWM is for those who 'grew up with' Windows, and is probably a better choice for users who 'grew up with' Win95 and 98. Just ideas for the future, in case you ever need/want/are asked to install Gentoo to another machine. HTH, Holly -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] How many people use KDE?
On 1/21/06, Mike Owen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: even go back to Afterstep or Enlightenment, but for now kde-3.5 works for me. May I ask others' experiences with e17? I just wasted my holiday installing e17 on two of three machines. It is smaller than Kde, but background is 20% of cpu . Buggy. Beautiful. A PITA to configure, and menus suck. I don't think I'll be there long. I liked enlightenment .16 except I guess I really do need icons to remind me of what I've got on the system, and good menus. I still haven't decided to dump e17 for real, but in looking back, I did note how heavy KDE 3.5 is. Gnome: my employers already treat me like a child; I need options and flexibility. KDE is ugly IMHO: I blew that windows-like pop stand years ago. However, for some reason KDE developers in some, but NOT ALL cases, seem to wind up with a more polished package. Compare Kalzium and gperiodic. On really good days, I fire up fluxbox or a console. The bottom line on GUIs is ease of use. The tradeoff is flexibility and options. Nautilus works nicely, and for the first time I am using a GUI file manager for large scale reorganization of my filesystems. But one glaring deficiency keeps hitting me in the face---you can't do links with them. Noone has figured out how to make links user friendly? It's too complicated for the end user? So using a graphic user interface on a Unix-like system has led GNU/Linux back toward the idiot proof pseudo operating system: like MS-DOG being an idiotproofed unix-like system. Comments after having recently installed a bunch of GUI setups. Alan -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] How many people use KDE?
On Saturday 21 January 2006 00:44, Alan E. Davis wrote: On 1/21/06, Mike Owen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: even go back to Afterstep or Enlightenment, but for now kde-3.5 works for me. May I ask others' experiences with e17? I just wasted my holiday installing e17 on two of three machines. It is smaller than Kde, but background is 20% of cpu . Buggy. Beautiful. A PITA to configure, and menus suck. I don't think I'll be there long. I liked enlightenment .16 except I guess I really do need icons to remind me of what I've got on the system, and good menus. that was exactly how I felt. All the problems to get it installed, and than it was such a bad thing to configureuse, that I deinstalled it some days later. I used earlier enlightenment incarnations as my main desktop for some time, back, when KDE 2.X was dead slow, but when KDE 3 came out, enlightenment lost its appeal. KDE is ugly IMHO: I blew that windows-like pop stand years ago. However, for some reason KDE developers in some, but NOT ALL cases, seem to wind up with a more polished package. Compare Kalzium and gperiodic. if it is ugly, install some themes you like ;) -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] How many people use KDE?
Neil Bothwick schreef: On Fri, 20 Jan 2006 17:10:13 +0800, Linux Java wrote: I wanna to know KDE and Gnome which is more popular. Why? Use whatever suits you. I hope that you all appreciate my extreme restraint in not posting to this thread until now, given how very much I dislike KDE. But for the record, just so that all you KDE-heads don't skew the results com*plete*ly: I always (from my first attempts at Linux some 3 years ago) preferred GNOME to KDE. Never liked Nautilus, though (it's tied for second on my list of most hated file managers), and since I've never been fond of desktop icons and all that cr... junk... I still found it too heavy. So I switched to Openbox 3 (with a GTK backend), and now I use fvwm-crystal (with a GTK backend). Gnome-light is (always) installed, but I don't use it as a desktop. I have only two KDE-specific applications that I would not do without (both compiled -kde and -arts to the greatest extent possible): Krusader (though this needs Konq and some other KDE utils for best usage, as it recognizes KDE apps much much better than GTK apps for viewing files and the like), and K3b. These apps require kdebase, so I've got that, but the day you see me logging into KDE, you can rest assured that either: 1) my system is so seriously broke that it's the only DE/WM I can get into (which is pretty unlikely. I mean, I've got iceWM and *afterstep* on the system, for Pete's sake; the day that doesn't work but KDE does will be... The day); or 2) I have been replaced by an alien clone (shoot first, ask questions later). I prefer to use GTK-based applications wherever possible because I find them more attractive in general, and I'm more used to them (as a GNOME user originally), unless they're junk, like Totem, in which case I use non-affiliated programs like Xine or mPlayer. Yes, I know Totem can be configured to use a Xine backend. Imo, there's no point; if that's the only way Totem works, I might as well just use Xine. Plus I want to see when gStreamer gets its act together. However I have no objection to QT-based apps (as opposed to KDE apps) when necessary. It does need to be necessary, though (meaning, if I need it, I'll install qdvdauthor, because there's no GTK alternative that I know of, but I can just as well use the CLI original, unless the GUI version has some additional feature or makes it easier to understand than the CLI version's man page). So anyway, Neil is of course right: use what you want; it's *your* desktop (finally!). I don't need a whole lot of GUI features (in fact I dislike a whole lot of GUI features), so KDE is not for me, the one who never liked Windows(-like) desktops, even when I was using Windows; I used an alternative shell from my Win98 days on. But for those who feel more comfortable with a more Windows-like environment, and Windows-like assumptions about what a user wants/needs from their desktop, KDE may be just the thing; that is, after all, what it's designed to do to a great extent. You can have it, though. I'll be elsewhere. Holly -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] How many people use KDE?
My wife and I use KDE. I, mainly because I don't see the point in having multiple GUIs (they're not that facinating to me (other than to get into the source code), but for my wife, I find that for someone coming from using Windows, it seems that out of the box, KDE seems to have a stronger appeal to her than Gnome. Although, the environment she really took to was XFCE (though it's not a choice in this discussion). In looking at Holly's post, I'm inclined to agree. Being that most of the stuff I do (besides surf the net), but things like programming, moving files, your general admin stuff, configuration changes, etc I (like most of us here --probably) do from a command-line. My selling point for the command-line is I don't have to learn any new menus to use it ;), but to each his own. ShawnOn 1/20/06, Holly Bostick [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Neil Bothwick schreef: On Fri, 20 Jan 2006 17:10:13 +0800, Linux Java wrote: I wanna to know KDE and Gnome which is more popular. Why? Use whatever suits you.I hope that you all appreciate my extreme restraint in not posting to this thread until now, given how very much I dislike KDE.But for the record, just so that all you KDE-heads don't skew theresults com*plete*ly:I always (from my first attempts at Linux some 3 years ago) preferred GNOME to KDE. Never liked Nautilus, though (it's tied for second on mylist of most hated file managers), and since I've never been fond ofdesktop icons and all that cr... junk... I still found it too heavy. So I switched to Openbox 3 (with a GTK backend), and now I use fvwm-crystal(with a GTK backend). Gnome-light is (always) installed, but I don'tuse it as a desktop.I have only two KDE-specific applications that I would not do without (both compiled -kde and -arts to the greatest extent possible): Krusader(though this needs Konq and some other KDE utils for best usage, as itrecognizes KDE apps much much better than GTK apps for viewing files and the like), and K3b. These apps require kdebase, so I've got that, butthe day you see me logging into KDE, you can rest assured that either:1) my system is so seriously broke that it's the only DE/WM I can get into (which is pretty unlikely. I mean, I've got iceWM and *afterstep*on the system, for Pete's sake; the day that doesn't work but KDE doeswill be... The day);or2) I have been replaced by an alien clone (shoot first, ask questions later).I prefer to use GTK-based applications wherever possible because I findthem more attractive in general, and I'm more used to them (as a GNOMEuser originally), unless they're junk, like Totem, in which case I use non-affiliated programs like Xine or mPlayer. Yes, I know Totem can beconfigured to use a Xine backend. Imo, there's no point; if that's theonly way Totem works, I might as well just use Xine. Plus I want to see when gStreamer gets its act together. However I have no objection toQT-based apps (as opposed to KDE apps) when necessary. It does need tobe necessary, though (meaning, if I need it, I'll install qdvdauthor, because there's no GTK alternative that I know of, but I can just aswell use the CLI original, unless the GUI version has some additionalfeature or makes it easier to understand than the CLI version's man page). So anyway, Neil is of course right: use what you want; it's *your*desktop (finally!). I don't need a whole lot of GUI features (in fact Idislike a whole lot of GUI features), so KDE is not for me, the one who never liked Windows(-like) desktops, even when I was using Windows; Iused an alternative shell from my Win98 days on. But for those who feelmore comfortable with a more Windows-like environment, and Windows-like assumptions about what a user wants/needs from their desktop, KDE may bejust the thing; that is, after all, what it's designed to do to a greatextent.You can have it, though. I'll be elsewhere. Holly--gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list-- Shawn Singh
Re: [gentoo-user] How many people use KDE?
It's nice of you to give me so detailed explanation! I think I would like to use gnome for long time ^_^ Thank you very much On Fri, 2006-01-20 at 15:29 +0100, Holly Bostick wrote: Neil Bothwick schreef: On Fri, 20 Jan 2006 17:10:13 +0800, Linux Java wrote: I wanna to know KDE and Gnome which is more popular. Why? Use whatever suits you. I hope that you all appreciate my extreme restraint in not posting to this thread until now, given how very much I dislike KDE. But for the record, just so that all you KDE-heads don't skew the results com*plete*ly: I always (from my first attempts at Linux some 3 years ago) preferred GNOME to KDE. Never liked Nautilus, though (it's tied for second on my list of most hated file managers), and since I've never been fond of desktop icons and all that cr... junk... I still found it too heavy. So I switched to Openbox 3 (with a GTK backend), and now I use fvwm-crystal (with a GTK backend). Gnome-light is (always) installed, but I don't use it as a desktop. I have only two KDE-specific applications that I would not do without (both compiled -kde and -arts to the greatest extent possible): Krusader (though this needs Konq and some other KDE utils for best usage, as it recognizes KDE apps much much better than GTK apps for viewing files and the like), and K3b. These apps require kdebase, so I've got that, but the day you see me logging into KDE, you can rest assured that either: 1) my system is so seriously broke that it's the only DE/WM I can get into (which is pretty unlikely. I mean, I've got iceWM and *afterstep* on the system, for Pete's sake; the day that doesn't work but KDE does will be... The day); or 2) I have been replaced by an alien clone (shoot first, ask questions later). I prefer to use GTK-based applications wherever possible because I find them more attractive in general, and I'm more used to them (as a GNOME user originally), unless they're junk, like Totem, in which case I use non-affiliated programs like Xine or mPlayer. Yes, I know Totem can be configured to use a Xine backend. Imo, there's no point; if that's the only way Totem works, I might as well just use Xine. Plus I want to see when gStreamer gets its act together. However I have no objection to QT-based apps (as opposed to KDE apps) when necessary. It does need to be necessary, though (meaning, if I need it, I'll install qdvdauthor, because there's no GTK alternative that I know of, but I can just as well use the CLI original, unless the GUI version has some additional feature or makes it easier to understand than the CLI version's man page). So anyway, Neil is of course right: use what you want; it's *your* desktop (finally!). I don't need a whole lot of GUI features (in fact I dislike a whole lot of GUI features), so KDE is not for me, the one who never liked Windows(-like) desktops, even when I was using Windows; I used an alternative shell from my Win98 days on. But for those who feel more comfortable with a more Windows-like environment, and Windows-like assumptions about what a user wants/needs from their desktop, KDE may be just the thing; that is, after all, what it's designed to do to a great extent. You can have it, though. I'll be elsewhere. Holly
Re: [gentoo-user] Update portage cache ... horribly slow
Paweł Madej schreef: My other question is if there is some script which could follow rrs from [1] and run emerge sync and emerge -uND world after there is for example 10 ebuild updated comparing to my system, or other way that it will email me that there is 10 ebuilds new and i should run sync manually. Well, esync might be what you want-- it's part of gentoolkit, and while it won't do any emerges for you, it will display (or mail you, which is how I do it) the list of updated packages for the day, with a note as to whether the package is an upgrade for your system, new to your system, or the like. Here's an example of the daily mail I get when I run esync as a cron job and mail myself the output:* Importing old portage tree * Doing '/usr/bin/emerge sync' now * Doing 'eupdatedb' now * esearch-index generated in 4 minute(s) and 23 second(s) * indexed 10357 ebuilds * size of esearch-index: 1618 kB * Importing new portage tree * Preparing databases * Searching for changes [ N] dev-ruby/activesupport (1.1.1-r1): Utility Classes and Extension to the Standard Library [MN] net-libs/aqbanking (1.6.0_beta): Generic Online Banking Interface [MN] media-sound/ardour (0.99): multi-track hard disk recording software [ N] mail-filter/clamsmtp (1.5): ClamSMTP is an SMTP filter that allows you to check for viruses using the ClamAV anti-virus software. [ N] dev-util/cmake (2.0.6-r1): Cross platform Make [ N] net-libs/cvm (0.32-r1): Credential Validation Modules by Bruce Guenter [ N] dev-java/dom4j (1.6.1): Easy to use, open source library for working with XML, XPath and XSLT on the Java platform using the Java Collections Framework and with full support for DOM, SAX and JAXP. [ N] net-mail/fetchyahoo (2.9.0): Perl script that downloads mail from a Yahoo! webmail account to a local mail spool, an mbox file, or to procmail. [ N] net-libs/libmonetra (4.2.2): library for connecting to a MCVE Credit Card Processing Daemon via SSL, TCP/IP, and drop-files. [ N] net-analyzer/libnasl (2.2.5): A remote security scanner for Linux (libnasl) [ U] www-client/mozilla-firefox (1.0.7-r1): Firefox Web Browser [ N] net-analyzer/nagios-core (1.2-r3): Nagios Core - Check daemon, CGIs, docs [ N] net-dns/ndu (0.4-r2): DNS serial number incrementer and reverse zone builder [ N] net-analyzer/nessus (2.2.5): A remote security scanner for Linux [ N] net-analyzer/nessus-core (2.2.5): A remote security scanner for Linux (nessus-core) [ N] net-analyzer/nessus-libraries (2.2.5): A remote security scanner for Linux (nessus-libraries) [ N] net-analyzer/nessus-plugins (2.2.5): A remote security scanner for Linux (nessus-plugins) [ N] mail-client/nmh (1.1-r1): New MH mail reader [MN] x11-misc/openclipart (0.17-r1): Open Clip Art Library (openclipart.org) [MN] app-office/qbankmanager (0.9.29): Onlinebanking frontend for aqbanking [MN] x11-misc/service-discovery-applet (0.1): Service Discovery Applet [MN] sys-block/unieject (5): Multiplatform command to eject and load CD-Rom drives [MN] media-libs/urt (3.1b): the Utah Raster Toolkit is a library for dealing with raster images [MN] sys-cluster/vzctl (2.7.0.21): OpenVZ VPS control utility [ N] x11-plugins/wmail (2.0-r2): Window Maker dock application showing incoming mail [ N] x11-plugins/wmlpq (0.2.1-r1): Windowmaker dockapp which monitors up to 5 printqueues [ N] x11-plugins/wmmenu (1.2-r1): WindowMaker DockApp: Provides a popup menu of icons like in AfterStep, as a dockable application. [ N] x11-plugins/wmnetload (1.3-r2): Network interface monitor dockapp The only upgrade (this is from the 27th), is firefox, but I might take a look at wmail. Nothing else interesting to me on this particular list. I suppose if you really felt that you wanted to have an emerge of the new packages done automatically, you could always create a script to run esync and mail you the output, then run emerge -uD world after esync completed successfully (doesn't seem much point in using --newuse if you're not going to be there to look at the output), but I prefer to do my emerges manually. Hope this helps, Holly -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Slightly OT: favorite window manager/desktop environ?
Steve B schreef: On 9/1/05, *Matt Garman* [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Before this gets into a flame war, let's just operate under the assertion that the best window manager/desktop environment is strictly a matter of personal preference. So, having said that, what window manager do you use, and why? All right, I'm good and sick of all the answers in this thread being 'how cool is KDE', so, for something completely different: I use Openbox (3). I was a GNOME user for a long time, and I do have GNOME installed, and I do use a lot of GNOME/GTK programs (wherever possible, actually; I very much dislike KDE for a number of reasons). However, if I felt KDE was bloated (and I do), GNOME wasn't much better in that regard-- or at least not enough better to satisfy me. Nautilus is fairly useless for the way I like to manage files. I don't like desktop icons. In fact, all I really liked about The GNOME Desktop (as opposed to GNOME applications) was gnome-panel, which is quite cool for a full-featured panel. Then one day I happened on a forum thread about OB 3. It's a window manager. And that's about it OK, you get a dock, if you want to use it. Everything else, you get to configure yourself... but it's a lot easier than FVWM. Right-click on the desktop for the main menu--- *your* main menu, created by you from an xml file. Keybindings and mouse bindings up the wazoo. Undecorate windows at will. Scroll through your desktops with the mouse wheel (on the desktop, on the panel, if you use pypanel like me), or again, set up keybindings to switch desktops as well. Send your windows to any desktop, and follow them there-- or don't. With devilspie, do any or all of the above automatically. Use whatever panel you like. Or replace GNOME/KDE/ROX's WMs (metacity, kwin, whatever ROX uses) with Openbox, and use all of OB's features with your favorite DE. One week, I might sit down with FVWM and see if it can top OB when you really start using all OB's features, but I honestly don't see any reason to put such an intensive study date on my agenda atm. I'm having too much fun looking through all the stuff I was never able to use before because my DE got in the way. OB isn't perfect, and it's by no means as flashy as E (what could be), but its not ugly like FVWM is out-of-the-box, its easy to start working with, you can use programs from any DE or WM with it (except maybe peksystray, which didn't work for me when I tried it some time ago), and you can set it up so it works with the way you actually work-- not only in terms of key and mouse bindings, and in terms of the fact that you can use the helper apps that you find most comfortable to use, rather than the ones the DE foists on you, but in terms of the helper apps that become available to you. Not that you can't use devilspie and asbutton under KDE or GNOME, but who really ever does? Because all the utility programs your average DE comes with aren't included, I went looking, and now I've got all kinds of neat stuff that I never knew about before. Conky is the newest. I like it, not least because it replaced several dockapps. That was a blessing, as the dock was getting a bit bulky with all of the cool monitors and the 4 asbuttons that allow me to launch any one of *108* applications in a 64*256px space (9 launchers per button, each launcher can launch up to 3 apps depending on which mouse button is used to click it-- and I don't have to run Afterstep to use it, which is the best part imo, no offense to AS). All of that fading and highlighting and other glitz is all very nice, but I'm more impressed by functionalities that help me work faster because I set them up to work with me, rather than learning to work the way they tell me. But, 'each to his own taste,' said the lady as she kissed the cow, as my mother used to say (no idea where she got that from). Holly -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
