Re: [gentoo-user] [Maybe OT]: Instability of system

[Dale]

Adam Carter wrote:
> On Mon, May 21, 2018 at 8:35 AM, Dale  > wrote:
>
> Alan Mackenzie wrote:
> > Hello, Gentoo.
> >
> > I'm having problems with my machine hanging or rebooting
> spontaneously.
> > It's doing this, perhaps, every three or four weeks.  I think
> that when
> > I'm in X, the system usually reboots, when I'm on a tty, it hangs.
> >
> > This phenomenon has, up till now, been just below the level at which
> > it's annoying enough to do something about.  But my machine just
> hung on
> > me a few minutes ago, and now it's definitely reached tha threshold
> > where spending effort fixing it seems justified.
> >
> > My actual Gentoo installation is fine, in fact, so good that
> I've not
> > needed to post to the list for a long time.  :-)
> >
> > My system is an AMD Ryzen processor on an Asus Prime X370-Pro
> mainboard,
> > and is just over a year old.  I don't think my RAM is unstable
> (though
> > it's been a long time since I've run that RAM checking program).
>
>
> I ran memory checking overnight on my unstable (segfaults) AMD 8350
> system, but no issues were found. Underclocking the RAM to the next
> lowest speed completely addressed the issue. If i get keen i may
> re-visit the RAM timing to see if it can be made to run stable at the
> nominal frequency with more conservative settings on the other parameters.
>
> If the firmware hasnt fixed it, the underclocking is cheap test, but
> yeah power supplies seem to be problematic. I always buy branded ones,
> but even then only had mediocre results.


In the past, I've had bad ram test OK with those tests.  When those
tests say ram is bad, it seems to always be accurate but sometimes it
doesn't catch a bad stick.  I don't know if it doesn't test the whole
thing or what.  I read somewhere that it sets aside a certain amount of
ram for the test program itself, after all it has to be in memory to
run, so it doesn't test that part.  So, even tho it says they are good,
it may not be certain.  It would make me consider other causes tho. 
I've only had that happen a couple times. 

I'd run at the default settings first.  If it still does it, then you
can go back to your custom settings after you fix the problem.  I
thought about overclocking at one time but for what I do, it doesn't
really matter much.  My puter spends most of its time waiting on me not
the other way around.  I guess if someone has their system doing some
number crunching, foldingathome or something then it may matter more. 

I have Thermaltake power supplies here.  It's not the best out there for
sure but it is in spec and reasonable price wise.  Some of those el
cheapos are cheap for a reason.  I bought a case once that came with
one.  I only paid like $50.00 for the whole thing.  Given a bare case
that was close usually costs around $40.00 at the time, they couldn't
have spent much on the P/S.  I removed it first thing and put in a
proper P/S.  The el cheapo made a good paper weight tho.  The best
insurance tho is one that someone has tested.  You can still get one bad
out of the box but it gives you better odds for sure. 

Dale

:-)  :-) 

Re: [gentoo-user] Where are the AMD microcode updates for spectre?

[Adam Carter]

How often does the linux-firmware package update? On a schedule or as

> needed?
>

There's a version bump request bug in for these and new AMDGPU firmware.
Hopefully it will get processed quickly.

https://bugs.gentoo.org/656136

Re: [gentoo-user] [Maybe OT]: Instability of system

[Adam Carter]

On Mon, May 21, 2018 at 8:35 AM, Dale  wrote:

> Alan Mackenzie wrote:
> > Hello, Gentoo.
> >
> > I'm having problems with my machine hanging or rebooting spontaneously.
> > It's doing this, perhaps, every three or four weeks.  I think that when
> > I'm in X, the system usually reboots, when I'm on a tty, it hangs.
> >
> > This phenomenon has, up till now, been just below the level at which
> > it's annoying enough to do something about.  But my machine just hung on
> > me a few minutes ago, and now it's definitely reached tha threshold
> > where spending effort fixing it seems justified.
> >
> > My actual Gentoo installation is fine, in fact, so good that I've not
> > needed to post to the list for a long time.  :-)
> >
> > My system is an AMD Ryzen processor on an Asus Prime X370-Pro mainboard,
> > and is just over a year old.  I don't think my RAM is unstable (though
> > it's been a long time since I've run that RAM checking program).
>
>
I ran memory checking overnight on my unstable (segfaults) AMD 8350 system,
but no issues were found. Underclocking the RAM to the next lowest speed
completely addressed the issue. If i get keen i may re-visit the RAM timing
to see if it can be made to run stable at the nominal frequency with more
conservative settings on the other parameters.

If the firmware hasnt fixed it, the underclocking is cheap test, but yeah
power supplies seem to be problematic. I always buy branded ones, but even
then only had mediocre results.

Re: [gentoo-user] [Maybe OT]: Instability of system

[Dale]

Alan Mackenzie wrote:
> Hello, Gentoo.
>
> I'm having problems with my machine hanging or rebooting spontaneously.
> It's doing this, perhaps, every three or four weeks.  I think that when
> I'm in X, the system usually reboots, when I'm on a tty, it hangs.
>
> This phenomenon has, up till now, been just below the level at which
> it's annoying enough to do something about.  But my machine just hung on
> me a few minutes ago, and now it's definitely reached tha threshold
> where spending effort fixing it seems justified.
>
> My actual Gentoo installation is fine, in fact, so good that I've not
> needed to post to the list for a long time.  :-)
>
> My system is an AMD Ryzen processor on an Asus Prime X370-Pro mainboard,
> and is just over a year old.  I don't think my RAM is unstable (though
> it's been a long time since I've run that RAM checking program).
>
> I honestly suspect the firmware on the mainboard.  When it was new, the
> board was practically unusable - with two sticks of RAM installed, it
> would crash after about 1 - 3 minutes.  With just one stick of RAM, it
> stayed up long enough to install new firmware (version 0604), which
> appeared to be stable.
>
> Going back to Asus's firmware page, there appear to have been many
> subsequent versions of the firmware released during the last year.
> Would it be a good idea for me to download and attempt to install the
> latest version?  Is this in any way risky?  (My mains supply is
> reliable.)
>
> Other than that, suggestions as to what to do would be welcome.
>
> Thanks!
>


This is the type of problem that I hate having.  Intermittent problems
are hard to diagnose.  Just when you think you got it fixed, it does it
again.  The post from madscientist has some good info including some
things I've tried successfully in the past, with other peoples
computers.  The biggest culprit, dust on fans/heat sinks and sometimes
heat sinks just falling off of chips.  I've had that happen a few times
on those south bridge type chips.  Usually they are glued on and after
several years, they can pop off.  When they get hot, they slow down, a
lot, to protect themselves but make a computer very slow.  Stick the
heat sink back on, off it goes again.  Still, dust is a huge problem.  I
take a air hose to mine at least twice a year, spring time for sure to
be ready for summer heat. 

For the static, a finger trigger type spray bottle with water and a
small amount of fabric softener works well, smells good too.  I haven't
tried dish detergent like madscientist mentioned but if he says it works
and you don't have fabric softener handy, give it a try. 

As to upgrading firmware.  I have a Gigabyte mobo that has that dual
BIOS thing.  That said, I've never had to resort to the backup.  The
updates went smoothly and only took a few minutes.  If ASUS has
something similar, may want to know how to use it just in case.  The
biggest thing, not losing power during the update.  As madscientist
mentioned, a UPS comes in handy there.  In my experience tho, they have
always worked fairly well.  The biggest thing, now exactly what steps to
take before you start.  Mistakes could cause issues. 

You mentioned having problems with having more memory installed.  Was
the firmware upgrade supposed to fix *that* problem?  In other words, is
it a known issue that needed a fix?  I ask because of this.  Could it be
that your power supply, regardless of what rating it claims, isn't quite
up to standards and that little extra power causes issues?  It's
something to think about.  It's hard to know what power supplies are
really good or not.  Generally, I like to find one that has been tested
and known to be good.  I'll post links at the bottom just in case you
are interested. 

If you have checked the cooling and such, then it may be time for a
firmware upgrade if it is supposed to fix this type of problem.  I'd try
to rule out all else first tho. 

Some links that may interest you. 

http://www.jonnyguru.com/modules.php?name=NDReviews=Review_Cat=13


https://www.tomshardware.com/t/power-supplies/

http://www.overclockers.com/forums/showthread.php/589708-Recommended-PSU-s-True-Tested


I think somewhere on the overclockers site there is a list of known bad
power supplies.  They are supplies that people have tested and they
failed, some in spectacular fashion.  Several included smoke and a few
some fireworks.  Several just had ripple/noise that was outside the
limits.  I think the first links has some of those listed too. 

I hope you find a solution soon.  Random things are aggravating. 

Dale

:-)  :-)

Re: [gentoo-user] [Maybe OT]: Instability of system

[Mick]

On Sunday, 20 May 2018 21:54:32 BST Alan Mackenzie wrote:
> Hello, Gentoo.
> 
> I'm having problems with my machine hanging or rebooting spontaneously.
> It's doing this, perhaps, every three or four weeks.  I think that when
> I'm in X, the system usually reboots, when I'm on a tty, it hangs.
> 
> This phenomenon has, up till now, been just below the level at which
> it's annoying enough to do something about.  But my machine just hung on
> me a few minutes ago, and now it's definitely reached tha threshold
> where spending effort fixing it seems justified.
> 
> My actual Gentoo installation is fine, in fact, so good that I've not
> needed to post to the list for a long time.  :-)
> 
> My system is an AMD Ryzen processor on an Asus Prime X370-Pro mainboard,
> and is just over a year old.  I don't think my RAM is unstable (though
> it's been a long time since I've run that RAM checking program).
> 
> I honestly suspect the firmware on the mainboard.  When it was new, the
> board was practically unusable - with two sticks of RAM installed, it
> would crash after about 1 - 3 minutes.  With just one stick of RAM, it
> stayed up long enough to install new firmware (version 0604), which
> appeared to be stable.
> 
> Going back to Asus's firmware page, there appear to have been many
> subsequent versions of the firmware released during the last year.
> Would it be a good idea for me to download and attempt to install the
> latest version?  Is this in any way risky?  (My mains supply is
> reliable.)
> 
> Other than that, suggestions as to what to do would be welcome.
> 
> Thanks!

I have found with Asus their firmware releases tend to get more stable with 
time.  Initially they come out thick and fast before they gradually slow down 
and then stop, probably because they have moved their devs to later and 
greater models.  If I suspect the firmware, I always update it first before I 
look at other reasons.  However, first I have a look at the changelog.  Some 
updates are for functionality or peripherals I do not use/need.

-- 
Regards,
Mick

signature.asc
Description: This is a digitally signed message part.

Re: [gentoo-user] [Maybe OT]: Instability of system

[mad.scientist.at.large]

First suspect the power line, brief surges/sags can do that( do you have access 
to a ups?).    

Is your' power supply near it's limits?  That can make power supplies rather 
sensitive.  

Could it be static electricity?  You can actually make a really good antistatic 
spray cheaply for any carpet etc.  Just get an empty spray  bottle, fill with 
water and add 1-2 drops of dish soap, this works really well though like any 
sprayed on antistat  you have to repeat occsionally (depends on traffic and 
carpet age, old carpet usually has enough ground in dirt to keep the static 
down).

Don't wear synthetics around computers (it's really dry here in colorado, even 
in summer often).

Could the processor heatsink etc. be dirty?(worth monitoring the temp).  i.e. 
the fan in the power supply.  also make sure all the fans are still spinning 
nicely.  power supplies sort of work for awhile without proper cooling, but 
they'll tend to overheat and shut down, assuming you have a good power supply.  
If you have one with "no agency approvals" then that's likely you're problem.  
Such supplies have no safety devices, no surge arrestors, no linefilerterin, no 
temp/power/short protection.  They radiate interference and have dirty, dirty 
outputs.  In any case you might try another power supply, they often get flakey 
with age and there are always some weak units in a production run.  You are 
using a grounded surge arrested power source?  Do you have a lot of lightning 
in your' neighborhood, it's that time of year.

Definately check all the power cables are in right as well as the graphics card 
and ram etc.  It's also worth checking the fan cables.  If the bios supports it 
see what the temp is and the fan speed, some bioses can provide some 
troubleshooting help.

It could be in response to something else in the house creating a surge or sag, 
to the extent possible it's worth thinking about what else is happening.  An 
airconditioner can cause all kinds of problems (they should always be on their 
own circuit).  Of course if you don't have air conditioning I'd suspect a heat 
issue strongly.

Also worth putting the parts of the system under high load with testing 
utilities to see if you can make it happen more often.

 A firmware issue would likely happen more often and consistantly.  Also, dred, 
run a smart tool on the hard drive though they usually don't cause reboot, just 
long hangs.

mad.scientist.at.large (a good madscientist)
--
>



20. May 2018 14:54 by a...@muc.de :


> Hello, Gentoo.
>
> I'm having problems with my machine hanging or rebooting spontaneously.
> It's doing this, perhaps, every three or four weeks.  I think that when
> I'm in X, the system usually reboots, when I'm on a tty, it hangs.
>
> This phenomenon has, up till now, been just below the level at which
> it's annoying enough to do something about.  But my machine just hung on
> me a few minutes ago, and now it's definitely reached tha threshold
> where spending effort fixing it seems justified.
>
> My actual Gentoo installation is fine, in fact, so good that I've not
> needed to post to the list for a long time.  :-)
>
> My system is an AMD Ryzen processor on an Asus Prime X370-Pro mainboard,
> and is just over a year old.  I don't think my RAM is unstable (though
> it's been a long time since I've run that RAM checking program).
>
> I honestly suspect the firmware on the mainboard.  When it was new, the
> board was practically unusable - with two sticks of RAM installed, it
> would crash after about 1 - 3 minutes.  With just one stick of RAM, it
> stayed up long enough to install new firmware (version 0604), which
> appeared to be stable.
>
> Going back to Asus's firmware page, there appear to have been many
> subsequent versions of the firmware released during the last year.
> Would it be a good idea for me to download and attempt to install the
> latest version?  Is this in any way risky?  (My mains supply is
> reliable.)
>
> Other than that, suggestions as to what to do would be welcome.
>
> Thanks!
>
> -- 
> Alan Mackenzie (Nuremberg, Germany).

[gentoo-user] [Maybe OT]: Instability of system

[Alan Mackenzie]

Hello, Gentoo.

I'm having problems with my machine hanging or rebooting spontaneously.
It's doing this, perhaps, every three or four weeks.  I think that when
I'm in X, the system usually reboots, when I'm on a tty, it hangs.

This phenomenon has, up till now, been just below the level at which
it's annoying enough to do something about.  But my machine just hung on
me a few minutes ago, and now it's definitely reached tha threshold
where spending effort fixing it seems justified.

My actual Gentoo installation is fine, in fact, so good that I've not
needed to post to the list for a long time.  :-)

My system is an AMD Ryzen processor on an Asus Prime X370-Pro mainboard,
and is just over a year old.  I don't think my RAM is unstable (though
it's been a long time since I've run that RAM checking program).

I honestly suspect the firmware on the mainboard.  When it was new, the
board was practically unusable - with two sticks of RAM installed, it
would crash after about 1 - 3 minutes.  With just one stick of RAM, it
stayed up long enough to install new firmware (version 0604), which
appeared to be stable.

Going back to Asus's firmware page, there appear to have been many
subsequent versions of the firmware released during the last year.
Would it be a good idea for me to download and attempt to install the
latest version?  Is this in any way risky?  (My mains supply is
reliable.)

Other than that, suggestions as to what to do would be welcome.

Thanks!

-- 
Alan Mackenzie (Nuremberg, Germany).

Re: [gentoo-user] Where are the AMD microcode updates for spectre?

[Rich Freeman]

On Sun, May 20, 2018 at 12:16 PM Volker Armin Hemmann <
volkerar...@googlemail.com> wrote:

> oh come on. Spectre on AMD isn't even much of a problem. Why the panic?


What do release notes have to do with Spectre, and how is wanting them a
"panic?"

-- 
Rich

Re: [gentoo-user] Where are the AMD microcode updates for spectre?

[Volker Armin Hemmann]

oh come on. Spectre on AMD isn't even much of a problem. Why the panic?

Also... be prepared for a lot of trouble with intel cpu's soon...

2018-05-20 15:07 GMT+02:00 Rich Freeman :

> On Sun, May 20, 2018 at 4:59 AM Adam Carter  wrote:
>
> >> As far as I can tell there is no official AMD microcode update page, or
> any
> >> kind of official release notes.  I'm not sure where linux-firmware
> actually
> >> gets the microcode files from (I'm sure they wouldn't load if they
> weren't
> >> genuine though).  I can find no documentation as to what any of these
> >> updates actually do.
>
>
> https://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/firmware/
> linux-firmware.git/commit/?id=77101513943ef198e2050667c87abf19e6cbb1d8
>
> > Bulldozer and Zen updates!
>
> Nice to see, but again there is no indication of what these microcode
> updates actually do.  Presumably they have something to do with Spectre,
> but there is no way to confirm that as far as I can tell.
>
> I get that not everything is open-source.  At the very least they could
> have some release notes.  Even NVidia has those...
>
> --
> Rich
>
>

[gentoo-user] udev and ignoring rules

[Klaus Ethgen]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA512

Hi,

I found a strange problem with udev and, in this case, pcscd.

Installed versions:
   [IP-] [  ] sys-apps/pcsc-lite-1.8.22:0
   [IP-] [  ] sys-fs/eudev-3.2.5:0
   [IP-] [  ] virtual/udev-217:0

- From /lib/udev/rules.d/99-pcscd-hotplug.rules, group should be set to
pcscd. However, if I plug the device it gets set to group usb.

That for its own is very strange as I found no error in the rule in that
file:
   ACTION=="add", ENV{PCSCD}=="1", GROUP="pcscd", RUN+="/bin/env IN_HOTPLUG=1 
/etc/init.d/pcscd --quiet start"

And adding some debug rules showed that ENV{PCSCD} is really set.

However, not the first fail with udev (bevore unrelated and on debian) I
tried:
   ~> udevadm test /devices/pci:00/:00:1d.0/usb5/5-1
   ...
   Reading rules file: /lib64/udev/rules.d/92-pcsc-ccid.rules
   Reading rules file: /lib64/udev/rules.d/95-dm-notify.rules
   Reading rules file: /lib64/udev/rules.d/97-hid2hci.rules
   Reading rules file: /lib64/udev/rules.d/99-fuse.rules
   Reading rules file: /lib64/udev/rules.d/99-pcscd-hotplug.rules
   ...
   GROUP 85 /lib64/udev/rules.d/40-gentoo.rules:7
   ...
   GROUP 242 /lib64/udev/rules.d/99-pcscd-hotplug.rules:6
   ...

After that the device has its correct group set to pcscd. So it seems to
be a kind of heisenbug[0], you see it as long as you don't watch on it.
:-(

Any Idea what can get wrong?

Beside the main problem I think the RUN setting is wrong. It just
produces log messages:
   pcscd: not allowed to be hotplugged

I tried to find information on IN_HOTPLUG environment but there aren't
any. And pcscd is running as daemon as described in [1].

Regards
   Klaus

[0]
[1] https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/PCSC-Lite
- -- 
Klaus Ethgen   http://www.ethgen.ch/
pub  4096R/4E20AF1C 2011-05-16Klaus Ethgen 
Fingerprint: 85D4 CA42 952C 949B 1753  62B3 79D0 B06F 4E20 AF1C
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[gentoo-user] Gentoo ansible role

[Klaus Ethgen]

Hi Folks,

after so many questions, I want to provide you with an ansible role that
fixes some things that I found on Gentoo.

I hope it is of use for anyone out there.

I am sure that I do not always see the full picture. So, if you have
some improvements/fixes, just mail me. All comments are welcome. :-)

Regards
   Klaus
-- 
Klaus Ethgen   http://www.ethgen.ch/
pub  4096R/4E20AF1C 2011-05-16Klaus Ethgen 
Fingerprint: 85D4 CA42 952C 949B 1753  62B3 79D0 B06F 4E20 AF1C


gentoofix.tar.xz
Description: application/xz


signature.asc
Description: PGP signature

Re: [gentoo-user] Where are the AMD microcode updates for spectre?

[Rich Freeman]

On Sun, May 20, 2018 at 4:59 AM Adam Carter  wrote:

>> As far as I can tell there is no official AMD microcode update page, or
any
>> kind of official release notes.  I'm not sure where linux-firmware
actually
>> gets the microcode files from (I'm sure they wouldn't load if they
weren't
>> genuine though).  I can find no documentation as to what any of these
>> updates actually do.


https://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/firmware/linux-firmware.git/commit/?id=77101513943ef198e2050667c87abf19e6cbb1d8

> Bulldozer and Zen updates!

Nice to see, but again there is no indication of what these microcode
updates actually do.  Presumably they have something to do with Spectre,
but there is no way to confirm that as far as I can tell.

I get that not everything is open-source.  At the very least they could
have some release notes.  Even NVidia has those...

-- 
Rich

Re: [gentoo-user] Where are the AMD microcode updates for spectre?

[Corbin Bird]

On 05/20/2018 03:59 AM, Adam Carter wrote:
>
>
> This has indeed been pretty frustrating.
>
> As far as I can tell there is no official AMD microcode update
> page, or any
> kind of official release notes.  I'm not sure where linux-firmware
> actually
> gets the microcode files from (I'm sure they wouldn't load if they
> weren't
> genuine though).  I can find no documentation as to what any of these
> updates actually do.
>
> It sounds like AMD intends for the microcode updates to be
> distributed via
> firmware updates, in which case the fixes would be done before
> boot.  That
> is a good thing of course, but they should still release the microcode
> files themselves, and also have release notes for something like this.
>
>
> https://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/firmware/linux-firmware.git/commit/?id=77101513943ef198e2050667c87abf19e6cbb1d8
>
>
> Bulldozer and Zen updates!

Thanks for the info.

How often does the linux-firmware package update? On a schedule or as
needed?

Corbin

Re: [gentoo-user] Where are the AMD microcode updates for spectre?

[Adam Carter]

>
>
> This has indeed been pretty frustrating.
>
> As far as I can tell there is no official AMD microcode update page, or any
> kind of official release notes.  I'm not sure where linux-firmware actually
> gets the microcode files from (I'm sure they wouldn't load if they weren't
> genuine though).  I can find no documentation as to what any of these
> updates actually do.
>
> It sounds like AMD intends for the microcode updates to be distributed via
> firmware updates, in which case the fixes would be done before boot.  That
> is a good thing of course, but they should still release the microcode
> files themselves, and also have release notes for something like this.
>

https://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/firmware/linux-firmware.git/commit/?id=77101513943ef198e2050667c87abf19e6cbb1d8

Bulldozer and Zen updates!

[gentoo-user] Annoying mapping of some keys

[Klaus Ethgen]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA512

Hi,

I have an annoying problem on gentoo that I work around currently by
using zkbd from zsh.

Some keys on Gentoo, on xterm, console and via ssh from remote host, map
to wrong keycodes. Namely and most important, that are the keys for
begin, end and delete. They insert a tilde char instead of doing the
expected cursor movement.

A correct table would show as following:
   key[F1]='^[OP'
   key[F2]='^[OQ'
   key[F3]='^[OR'
   key[F4]='^[OS'
   key[F5]='^[[15~'
   key[F6]='^[[17~'
   key[F7]='^[[18~'
   key[F8]='^[[19~'
   key[F9]='^[[20~'
   key[F10]='^[[21~'
   key[F11]='^[[23~'
   key[F12]='^[[24~'
   key[Backspace]='^?'
   key[Insert]='^[[2~'
   key[Home]='^[[H'
   key[PageUp]='^[[5~'
   key[Delete]='^[[3~'
   key[End]='^[[F'
   key[PageDown]='^[[6~'
   key[Up]='^[[A'
   key[Left]='^[[D'
   key[Down]='^[[B'
   key[Right]='^[[C'
   key[Menu]=

Is there any way to fix that system wide in Gentoo?

Regards
   Klaus
- -- 
Klaus Ethgen   http://www.ethgen.ch/
pub  4096R/4E20AF1C 2011-05-16Klaus Ethgen 
Fingerprint: 85D4 CA42 952C 949B 1753  62B3 79D0 B06F 4E20 AF1C
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