Re: [gentoo-user] Seagate ST8000NM0065 PMR or SMR plus NAS SAS SATA question
On Sat, 23 May 2020 11:39:40 -0400, David Haller wrote: > > Hello, > > On Sat, 23 May 2020, Michael wrote: > >On Saturday, 23 May 2020 00:31:48 BST Rich Freeman wrote: > >> On Fri, May 22, 2020 at 5:40 PM antlists wrote: > >> > On 22/05/2020 19:23, Rich Freeman wrote: > >> > > A big problem with drive-managed SMR is that it basically has to > >> > > assume the OS is dumb, which means most writes are in-place with no > >> > > trims, assuming the drive even supports trim. > >> > > >> > I think the problem with the current WD Reds is, in part, that the ATA-4 > >> > spec is required to support trim, but the ATA-3 spec is the current > >> > version. Whoops ... > >> > >> Probably was thought up by the same genius who added the 3.3V reset > >> pin to the SATA standard. > > > >Is there a way to determine if a drive on sale is SMR *before* > >purchase? > > WD Red WD*EFRX are PMR. > WD Red WD*EFAX are SMR (AFAIK, could be, that some are PMR). > > ISTR, that the "Red Pro" are all PMR (so far). How about WD4001FFSX-68JNUN0? I hope its pmr. -- Your life is like a penny. You're going to lose it. The question is: How do you spend it? John Covici wb2una cov...@ccs.covici.com
Re: [gentoo-user] Seagate ST8000NM0065 PMR or SMR plus NAS SAS SATA question
Hello, On Sat, 23 May 2020, Michael wrote: >On Saturday, 23 May 2020 00:31:48 BST Rich Freeman wrote: >> On Fri, May 22, 2020 at 5:40 PM antlists wrote: >> > On 22/05/2020 19:23, Rich Freeman wrote: >> > > A big problem with drive-managed SMR is that it basically has to >> > > assume the OS is dumb, which means most writes are in-place with no >> > > trims, assuming the drive even supports trim. >> > >> > I think the problem with the current WD Reds is, in part, that the ATA-4 >> > spec is required to support trim, but the ATA-3 spec is the current >> > version. Whoops ... >> >> Probably was thought up by the same genius who added the 3.3V reset >> pin to the SATA standard. > >Is there a way to determine if a drive on sale is SMR *before* >purchase? WD Red WD*EFRX are PMR. WD Red WD*EFAX are SMR (AFAIK, could be, that some are PMR). ISTR, that the "Red Pro" are all PMR (so far). HTH, -dnh -- If I wanted to point and drool, I'd go to a Chippendales show. -- Leigh Metcalf
Re: [gentoo-user] Seagate ST8000NM0065 PMR or SMR plus NAS SAS SATA question
Hello, On Fri, 22 May 2020, antlists wrote: >On 22/05/2020 19:23, Rich Freeman wrote: >> A big problem with drive-managed SMR is that it basically has to >> assume the OS is dumb, which means most writes are in-place with no >> trims, assuming the drive even supports trim. > >I think the problem with the current WD Reds is, in part, that the ATA-4 spec >is required to support trim, but the ATA-3 spec is the current version. >Whoops ... ATA-8 is the current spec. Though practically unused. The used spec is ATA-7 in virtually all drives for IIRC the last 10ish years or so. Did you mean SATA specs? Well, then there's only SATA-1 (1.5GBit/s), SATA-2, (3.0GBit/s) and SATA-3 (6.0GBit/s), and of the latter SATA revision 3.1 introduced TRIM[2]. Oh, and rev. 3.3 introduced some extras for SMR [3]. HTH, -dnh [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parallel_ATA [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serial_ATA#SATA_revision_3.0_(6_Gbit/s,_600_MB/s,_Serial_ATA-600) [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serial_ATA#SATA_revision_3.3 -- The nice thing about Windows is - It does not just crash, it displays a dialog box and lets you press 'OK' first. (Arno Schaefer's .sig)
Re: [gentoo-user] Seagate ST8000NM0065 PMR or SMR plus NAS SAS SATA question
On 23/05/20 08:39, Michael wrote: > Is there a way to determine if a drive on sale is SMR *before* purchase? I > assume after purchase it is a matter of filling up the drive with zeros and > keeping an eye on it stalling for minutes at a time; or is there some hdparm/ > smartctl output to inform accordingly? THAT IS THE PROBLEM! If you read up where people have been surprised, the information is encoded in the last four letters of the drive model. In other words, the bit that nobody looks at. For example, I can't remember whether EFAX is CMR or SMR, but that is what tells you on a WD Red. And even if you're lucky enough to be told the drive model, that is the bit that is updated every time the model is updated, and it's the bit they don't tell you, and it's the bit you only discover when the drive is in your hands and you can read the information plate on it and google it. Cheers, Wol
Re: [gentoo-user] Seagate ST8000NM0065 PMR or SMR plus NAS SAS SATA question
Michael wrote: > On Saturday, 23 May 2020 00:31:48 BST Rich Freeman wrote: >> On Fri, May 22, 2020 at 5:40 PM antlists wrote: >>> On 22/05/2020 19:23, Rich Freeman wrote: A big problem with drive-managed SMR is that it basically has to assume the OS is dumb, which means most writes are in-place with no trims, assuming the drive even supports trim. >>> I think the problem with the current WD Reds is, in part, that the ATA-4 >>> spec is required to support trim, but the ATA-3 spec is the current >>> version. Whoops ... >> Probably was thought up by the same genius who added the 3.3V reset >> pin to the SATA standard. > Is there a way to determine if a drive on sale is SMR *before* purchase? I > assume after purchase it is a matter of filling up the drive with zeros and > keeping an eye on it stalling for minutes at a time; or is there some hdparm/ > smartctl output to inform accordingly? I google the model number with the terms smr pmr and then see what it provides. Generally, you can tell which it is BUT one never knows if they change something. What bothers me is the fact they don't disclose what a drive is. Dale :-) :-)
Re: [gentoo-user] Seagate ST8000NM0065 PMR or SMR plus NAS SAS SATA question
On Saturday, 23 May 2020 00:31:48 BST Rich Freeman wrote: > On Fri, May 22, 2020 at 5:40 PM antlists wrote: > > On 22/05/2020 19:23, Rich Freeman wrote: > > > A big problem with drive-managed SMR is that it basically has to > > > assume the OS is dumb, which means most writes are in-place with no > > > trims, assuming the drive even supports trim. > > > > I think the problem with the current WD Reds is, in part, that the ATA-4 > > spec is required to support trim, but the ATA-3 spec is the current > > version. Whoops ... > > Probably was thought up by the same genius who added the 3.3V reset > pin to the SATA standard. Is there a way to determine if a drive on sale is SMR *before* purchase? I assume after purchase it is a matter of filling up the drive with zeros and keeping an eye on it stalling for minutes at a time; or is there some hdparm/ smartctl output to inform accordingly? signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
