Re: [gentoo-user] do subslots improve user-experience?
On Tue, Nov 05, 2013 at 09:28:05PM +, Neil Bothwick wrote: > On Tue, 5 Nov 2013 08:29:59 -0600, Bruce Hill wrote: > > > I can't understand the *need* for the new slot/subslot philosophy. > > The need to it is clear. Previous methods worked by breaking things and > then fixing them, hopefully before the breakage became a problem, > whenever library APIs changed. Subslots are an attempt to deal with this > proactively by fixing the problems as they occur. > > Whether subslots are the best way to do it, and whether the > implementation is ideal, as separate questions, but there is no doubt > that any system that relies on the existence of revdep-rebuild is > seriously flawed. > > To my mind, the question is not "are subslots needed" but "are they the > best solution to this problem". You misread my statement, also. It is in alignment with your last sentence. -- Happy Penguin Computers >') 126 Fenco Drive ( \ Tupelo, MS 38801 ^^ supp...@happypenguincomputers.com 662-269-2706 662-205-6424 http://happypenguincomputers.com/ A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail? Don't top-post: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Top_post#Top-posting
Re: [gentoo-user] do subslots improve user-experience?
On Tue, 5 Nov 2013 08:29:59 -0600, Bruce Hill wrote: > I can't understand the *need* for the new slot/subslot philosophy. The need to it is clear. Previous methods worked by breaking things and then fixing them, hopefully before the breakage became a problem, whenever library APIs changed. Subslots are an attempt to deal with this proactively by fixing the problems as they occur. Whether subslots are the best way to do it, and whether the implementation is ideal, as separate questions, but there is no doubt that any system that relies on the existence of revdep-rebuild is seriously flawed. To my mind, the question is not "are subslots needed" but "are they the best solution to this problem". -- Neil Bothwick Most software is about as user-friendly as a cornered rat! signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] do subslots improve user-experience?
On Tue, Nov 05, 2013 at 07:29:28AM -0600, Bruce Hill wrote:
> On Sat, Nov 02, 2013 at 01:04:52PM +0100, hasufell wrote:
> > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> > Hash: SHA1
> >
> > Another round of questioning the users here.
> >
> > more specifically:
> > * how often do you experience useless rebuilds?
> > * do you really have a problem with running
> > revdep-rebuild/haskell-updater/perl-cleaner etc after every emerge?
> > * do you think it's worth the effort to add more stuff to the PM, so
> > that you don't have to run revdep-rebuild that often?
> > * do you trust the other methods like subslots or preserved-rebuild to
> > work reliably? (as in: do you still use revdep-rebuild?)
> >
> > If you want my opinion on subslots:
> > # grep EMERGE_DEFAULT_OPTS /etc/portage/make.conf
> > EMERGE_DEFAULT_OPTS="--ignore-built-slot-operator-deps=y"
>
> This kind of subslot mess is so irritating:
>
> workstation ~ # emerge -aDjtuv --changed-use @world && dispatch-conf &&
> emerge -a --depclean && revdep-rebuild -i && clear && exit
>
> These are the packages that would be merged, in reverse order:
>
> Calculating dependencies... done!
> [ebuild rR] dev-qt/qtgui-4.8.5-r1:4 USE="accessibility exceptions glib
> xv (-aqua) -cups -debug -egl -gtkstyle -mng -nas -nis -pch -qt3support -tiff
> -trace -xinerama" 0 kB
> [ebuild rR] media-libs/libwebp-0.3.1 USE="jpeg png -experimental -gif
> -opengl -static-libs -swap-16bit-csp -tiff" ABI_X86="(64) (-32) (-x32)" 0 kB
> [ebuild rR] app-emulation/wine-1.6 USE="X alsa cups fontconfig jpeg
> mono mp3 ncurses nls opengl perl png prelink run-exes ssl threads truetype
> udisks xml -capi -custom-cflags -dos -gecko -gphoto2 -gsm -gstreamer -lcms
> -ldap -odbc -openal -opencl -osmesa -oss -pulseaudio -samba -scanner
> (-selinux) {-test} -v4l -xcomposite -xinerama" ABI_X86="32 64 (-x32)"
> LINGUAS="en_US -ar -bg -ca -cs -da -de -el -en -eo -es -fa -fi -fr -he -hi
> -hr -hu -it -ja -ko -lt -ml -nb_NO -nl -or -pa -pl -pt_BR -pt_PT -rm -ro -ru
> -sk -sl -sr_RS@cyrillic -sr_RS@latin -sv -te -th -tr -uk -wa -zh_CN -zh_TW" 0
> kB
> [ebuild U ~] www-client/firefox-25.0-r1 [24.0-r1] USE="alsa dbus jit
> libnotify startup-notification -bindist -custom-cflags -custom-optimization
> -debug -gstreamer -minimal (-pgo) -pulseaudio (-selinux) -system-cairo
> -system-icu -system-jpeg -system-sqlite -wifi" LINGUAS="-af -ak -ar -as -ast
> -be -bg -bn_BD -bn_IN -br -bs -ca -cs -csb -cy -da -de -el -en_GB -en_ZA -eo
> -es_AR -es_CL -es_ES -es_MX -et -eu -fa -fi -fr -fy_NL -ga_IE -gd -gl -gu_IN
> -he -hi_IN -hr -hu -hy_AM -id -is -it -ja -kk -km -kn -ko -ku -lg -lt -lv
> -mai -mk -ml -mr -nb_NO -nl -nn_NO -nso -or -pa_IN -pl -pt_BR -pt_PT -rm -ro
> -ru -si -sk -sl -son -sq -sr -sv_SE -ta -ta_LK -te -th -tr -uk -vi -zh_CN
> -zh_TW -zu" 124,545 kB
> [ebuild U ] app-portage/pfl-2.4-r1 [2.3] USE="network-cron"
> PYTHON_TARGETS="python2_7%* -python2_6%" 7 kB
> [ebuild U ~] mail-client/thunderbird-24.1.0-r1 [24.0-r1] USE="alsa dbus
> jit libnotify lightning startup-notification -bindist -crypt -custom-cflags
> -custom-optimization -debug -gstreamer -ldap -minimal -mozdom -pulseaudio
> (-selinux) -system-cairo -system-icu -system-jpeg -system-sqlite -wifi"
> LINGUAS="-ar -ast -be -bg -bn_BD -br -ca -cs -da -de -el -en_GB -es_AR -es_ES
> -et -eu -fi -fr -fy_NL -ga_IE -gd -gl -he -hr -hu -hy_AM -id -is -it -ja -ko
> -lt -nb_NO -nl -nn_NO -pa_IN -pl -pt_BR -pt_PT -rm -ro -ru -si -sk -sl -sq
> -sr -sv_SE -ta_LK -tr -uk -vi -zh_CN -zh_TW" 137,057 kB
> [ebuild rR] net-print/cups-filters-1.0.36-r1 USE="jpeg png tiff -perl
> -static-libs -zeroconf" 0 kB
> [ebuild rR] app-text/poppler-0.24.3:0/43 USE="cairo cjk cxx
> introspection jpeg jpeg2k lcms png tiff utils -curl -debug -doc -qt4" 0 kB
> [ebuild rR] media-libs/openjpeg-1.5.1 USE="-doc -static-libs {-test}"
> 0 kB
> [ebuild rR] x11-libs/cairo-1.12.14-r4 USE="X glib svg (-aqua) -debug
> -directfb -doc (-drm) (-gallium) (-gles2) -legacy-drivers -opengl -openvg
> (-qt4) -static-libs -valgrind -xcb -xlib-xcb" 0 kB
> [ebuild r U ~]media-libs/libpng-1.6.6:0/16 [1.5.15:0/0] USE="apng
> (-neon) -static-libs" ABI_X86="(64%*) -32% (-x32)" 860 kB
>
> Total: 11 packages (4 upgrades, 7 reinstalls), Size of downloads: 262,467 kB
>
> The following keyword changes are necessary to proceed:
> (see "package.accept_keywords" in the portage(5) man page for more details)
> # required by @__auto_slot_operator_replace_installed__ (argument)
> =media-libs/libpng-1.6.6 ~amd64
>
> Use --autounmask-write to write changes to config files (honoring
> CONFIG_PROTECT). Carefully examine the list of proposed changes,
> paying special attention to mask or keyword changes that may expose
> experimental or unstable packages.
>
> !!! The following installed packages are masked:
> - net-analyzer/mtr-0.82::gentoo (masked by: package.mask)
> For more information, see the MASKED PACKAGES section in
Re: [gentoo-user] do subslots improve user-experience?
On Sat, Nov 02, 2013 at 01:04:52PM +0100, hasufell wrote:
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA1
>
> Another round of questioning the users here.
>
> more specifically:
> * how often do you experience useless rebuilds?
> * do you really have a problem with running
> revdep-rebuild/haskell-updater/perl-cleaner etc after every emerge?
> * do you think it's worth the effort to add more stuff to the PM, so
> that you don't have to run revdep-rebuild that often?
> * do you trust the other methods like subslots or preserved-rebuild to
> work reliably? (as in: do you still use revdep-rebuild?)
>
> If you want my opinion on subslots:
> # grep EMERGE_DEFAULT_OPTS /etc/portage/make.conf
> EMERGE_DEFAULT_OPTS="--ignore-built-slot-operator-deps=y"
This kind of subslot mess is so irritating:
workstation ~ # emerge -aDjtuv --changed-use @world && dispatch-conf && emerge
-a --depclean && revdep-rebuild -i && clear && exit
These are the packages that would be merged, in reverse order:
Calculating dependencies... done!
[ebuild rR] dev-qt/qtgui-4.8.5-r1:4 USE="accessibility exceptions glib xv
(-aqua) -cups -debug -egl -gtkstyle -mng -nas -nis -pch -qt3support -tiff
-trace -xinerama" 0 kB
[ebuild rR] media-libs/libwebp-0.3.1 USE="jpeg png -experimental -gif
-opengl -static-libs -swap-16bit-csp -tiff" ABI_X86="(64) (-32) (-x32)" 0 kB
[ebuild rR] app-emulation/wine-1.6 USE="X alsa cups fontconfig jpeg mono
mp3 ncurses nls opengl perl png prelink run-exes ssl threads truetype udisks
xml -capi -custom-cflags -dos -gecko -gphoto2 -gsm -gstreamer -lcms -ldap -odbc
-openal -opencl -osmesa -oss -pulseaudio -samba -scanner (-selinux) {-test}
-v4l -xcomposite -xinerama" ABI_X86="32 64 (-x32)" LINGUAS="en_US -ar -bg -ca
-cs -da -de -el -en -eo -es -fa -fi -fr -he -hi -hr -hu -it -ja -ko -lt -ml
-nb_NO -nl -or -pa -pl -pt_BR -pt_PT -rm -ro -ru -sk -sl -sr_RS@cyrillic
-sr_RS@latin -sv -te -th -tr -uk -wa -zh_CN -zh_TW" 0 kB
[ebuild U ~] www-client/firefox-25.0-r1 [24.0-r1] USE="alsa dbus jit
libnotify startup-notification -bindist -custom-cflags -custom-optimization
-debug -gstreamer -minimal (-pgo) -pulseaudio (-selinux) -system-cairo
-system-icu -system-jpeg -system-sqlite -wifi" LINGUAS="-af -ak -ar -as -ast
-be -bg -bn_BD -bn_IN -br -bs -ca -cs -csb -cy -da -de -el -en_GB -en_ZA -eo
-es_AR -es_CL -es_ES -es_MX -et -eu -fa -fi -fr -fy_NL -ga_IE -gd -gl -gu_IN
-he -hi_IN -hr -hu -hy_AM -id -is -it -ja -kk -km -kn -ko -ku -lg -lt -lv -mai
-mk -ml -mr -nb_NO -nl -nn_NO -nso -or -pa_IN -pl -pt_BR -pt_PT -rm -ro -ru -si
-sk -sl -son -sq -sr -sv_SE -ta -ta_LK -te -th -tr -uk -vi -zh_CN -zh_TW -zu"
124,545 kB
[ebuild U ] app-portage/pfl-2.4-r1 [2.3] USE="network-cron"
PYTHON_TARGETS="python2_7%* -python2_6%" 7 kB
[ebuild U ~] mail-client/thunderbird-24.1.0-r1 [24.0-r1] USE="alsa dbus jit
libnotify lightning startup-notification -bindist -crypt -custom-cflags
-custom-optimization -debug -gstreamer -ldap -minimal -mozdom -pulseaudio
(-selinux) -system-cairo -system-icu -system-jpeg -system-sqlite -wifi"
LINGUAS="-ar -ast -be -bg -bn_BD -br -ca -cs -da -de -el -en_GB -es_AR -es_ES
-et -eu -fi -fr -fy_NL -ga_IE -gd -gl -he -hr -hu -hy_AM -id -is -it -ja -ko
-lt -nb_NO -nl -nn_NO -pa_IN -pl -pt_BR -pt_PT -rm -ro -ru -si -sk -sl -sq -sr
-sv_SE -ta_LK -tr -uk -vi -zh_CN -zh_TW" 137,057 kB
[ebuild rR] net-print/cups-filters-1.0.36-r1 USE="jpeg png tiff -perl
-static-libs -zeroconf" 0 kB
[ebuild rR] app-text/poppler-0.24.3:0/43 USE="cairo cjk cxx
introspection jpeg jpeg2k lcms png tiff utils -curl -debug -doc -qt4" 0 kB
[ebuild rR] media-libs/openjpeg-1.5.1 USE="-doc -static-libs {-test}" 0
kB
[ebuild rR] x11-libs/cairo-1.12.14-r4 USE="X glib svg (-aqua) -debug
-directfb -doc (-drm) (-gallium) (-gles2) -legacy-drivers -opengl -openvg
(-qt4) -static-libs -valgrind -xcb -xlib-xcb" 0 kB
[ebuild r U ~]media-libs/libpng-1.6.6:0/16 [1.5.15:0/0] USE="apng (-neon)
-static-libs" ABI_X86="(64%*) -32% (-x32)" 860 kB
Total: 11 packages (4 upgrades, 7 reinstalls), Size of downloads: 262,467 kB
The following keyword changes are necessary to proceed:
(see "package.accept_keywords" in the portage(5) man page for more details)
# required by @__auto_slot_operator_replace_installed__ (argument)
=media-libs/libpng-1.6.6 ~amd64
Use --autounmask-write to write changes to config files (honoring
CONFIG_PROTECT). Carefully examine the list of proposed changes,
paying special attention to mask or keyword changes that may expose
experimental or unstable packages.
!!! The following installed packages are masked:
- net-analyzer/mtr-0.82::gentoo (masked by: package.mask)
For more information, see the MASKED PACKAGES section in the emerge
man page or refer to the Gentoo Handbook.
workstation ~ # grep libpng
/usr/portage/net-print/cups-filters/cups-filters-1.0.36-r1.ebuild
png? ( media-libs/libpng:0= )
workstation ~ # grep libpng /usr/portage/app-tex
Re: [gentoo-user] do subslots improve user-experience?
On Sat, 02 Nov 2013 13:04:52 +0100, hasufell wrote: > * how often do you experience useless rebuilds? That's an unreasonable question. How do we know whether a rebuild was useless or not unless we skip it and then find that a single feature of a complex program no longer works properly, and to do that we have to block the update from emerge world. Yes, there are a lot more updates and rebuilds, but are these useless? I have no facts to device either way. > * do you really have a problem with running > revdep-rebuild/haskell-updater/perl-cleaner etc after every emerge? No. The only problem with those approaches is knowing when they need to be run. That's what I like about the preserved-rebuild approach, it tells you that rebuilds need to be done but lets the user device when to do them. > * do you think it's worth the effort to add more stuff > to the PM, so that you don't have to run revdep-rebuild that often? If it's done in a way that is understandable to users. Gentoo users like, even need, to understand what is going on. Sub-slots don't achieve that. > * do you trust the other methods like subslots or preserved-rebuild to > work reliably? (as in: do you still use revdep-rebuild?) I trust preserved-rebuild. I have a weekly cron script that checks various aspects of my system, including a revdep-rebuild -p. That part almost never finds anything these days. Sub-slots appear to work, but they are opaque and intrusive. @preserved-rebuild requires a tiny amount more effort from the user, but gives more control and seems more Gentoo-ish to me. -- Neil Bothwick Q: Why is top-posting evil? A: backwards read don't humans because signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] do subslots improve user-experience?
On 11/02/2013 12:04 PM, hasufell wrote: > Another round of questioning the users here. > > more specifically: > * how often do you experience useless rebuilds? not enough to notice, mostly using server based installs not desktop > * do you really have a problem with running > revdep-rebuild/haskell-updater/perl-cleaner etc after every emerge? only ever used to run revdep rebuild if things were broken, and while now i'm a little more aware of this kind of thing suddenly finding that x program doesn't work due to bad library can be scary; especially if you rely on x program. preserved build was a genius idea if you ask me as this at least allows things to continue working > * do you think it's worth the effort to add more stuff to the PM, so > that you don't have to run revdep-rebuild that often? with preserved rebuild there is at least notification that revdep rebuild is needed; as a noob i didn't realise the significance of the program quite so much, expecting portage to just take care of dependencies. > * do you trust the other methods like subslots or preserved-rebuild to > work reliably? (as in: do you still use revdep-rebuild?) > subslots to me just work like magic and i'm content for the moment to allow them to remain a mystery to me. looking at other responses i'm glad i'm not the only one(!) i get it on the surface but have never played with them so don't fully understand. as i said earlier preserved rebuild is great because a) you get notification of revdeprebuild requirement and b) things don't break after upgrade > If you want my opinion on subslots: > # grep EMERGE_DEFAULT_OPTS /etc/portage/make.conf > EMERGE_DEFAULT_OPTS="--ignore-built-slot-operator-deps=y" > /me politely requests more info and goes to google to find some too
Re: [gentoo-user] do subslots improve user-experience?
Am 02.11.2013 13:04, schrieb hasufell: > Another round of questioning the users here. > > more specifically: > * how often do you experience useless rebuilds? once every couple of updates? > * do you really have a problem with running > revdep-rebuild/haskell-updater/perl-cleaner etc after every emerge? no, never had. > * do you think it's worth the effort to add more stuff to the PM, so > that you don't have to run revdep-rebuild that often? if that makes portage even slower: no, I don't think it is worth the effort. > * do you trust the other methods like subslots or preserved-rebuild to > work reliably? (as in: do you still use revdep-rebuild?) I haven't used revdep-rebuilt in a while, since preserved-rebuild works fine. Or let me phrase it differently: when a libpng update turned konqueror is a complete crashfest NEITHER preserved-rebuild NOR revdep-rebuild did anything about it. Only reading the error message and a lot of thinking, followed by manual interference solved the problem - until the next minor libpng-bump sent me back to hell. > > If you want my opinion on subslots: > # grep EMERGE_DEFAULT_OPTS /etc/portage/make.conf > EMERGE_DEFAULT_OPTS="--ignore-built-slot-operator-deps=y" > > . >
Re: [gentoo-user] do subslots improve user-experience?
On 11/02/2013 05:04 AM, hasufell wrote: > Another round of questioning the users here. > > more specifically: > * how often do you experience useless rebuilds? A few times a year. To put this in perspective, I try to do major updates (-uDN world) once a month. I used to do this weekly but can't now due to time constraints. I find once a month is not too long - still updateable without headaches caused by waiting half a year or more... > * do you really have a problem with running > revdep-rebuild/haskell-updater/perl-cleaner etc after every emerge? Nope, although I use @preserved-rebuild more. > * do you think it's worth the effort to add more stuff to the PM, so > that you don't have to run revdep-rebuild that often? > * do you trust the other methods like subslots or preserved-rebuild to > work reliably? (as in: do you still use revdep-rebuild?) I still use RR after a major update as it occasionally picks up something that @preserved-rebuild misses. Last time it happened was a month ago, but I can't recall the package, it was something to do with multimedia, like libass or similar (on one of my mythtv frontends.) Dan
Re: [gentoo-user] do subslots improve user-experience?
On 11/2/2013 07:04, hasufell wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Another round of questioning the users here. These are good, thank you. Short answer here is no. more specifically: * how often do you experience useless rebuilds? At least one of my machines is constantly wanting to rebuild some package or another. Currently, one of my desktops wants to rebuild x11-misc/compton with every emerge. * do you really have a problem with running revdep-rebuild/haskell-updater/perl-cleaner etc after every emerge? No, because I typically understand when they're needed and can predict when I should use them, which really isn't all that often. * do you think it's worth the effort to add more stuff to the PM, so that you don't have to run revdep-rebuild that often? I think we should have stopped at @preserved-rebuild. It's a sort of middle ground between rebuilding things all the time and having a broken system. I like it because it allows me to leave some things in a semi-broken state until I have time and CPU cycles to dedicate to rebuild them (i.e. libreoffice, etc.). * do you trust the other methods like subslots or preserved-rebuild to work reliably? (as in: do you still use revdep-rebuild?) I've been using preserved-rebuild ever since it was backported to 2.1, and I don't think I've needed revdep-rebuild since then. I run it occasionally, but it's never found anything. If you want my opinion on subslots: # grep EMERGE_DEFAULT_OPTS /etc/portage/make.conf EMERGE_DEFAULT_OPTS="--ignore-built-slot-operator-deps=y" I'm getting closer to this sentiment as well; I'm beginning to think they're more trouble than they're worth. I'm getting tired of seeing an emerge list of 10 or 15 rebuilds when I'm trying to install something brand new because some package in the tree I already have installed has changed. If I cared about that package and its dependencies, I would have asked for it to be rebuilt/upgraded/whatever, but I don't, I'm working on something else right now. -- ♫Dustin http://dustin.hatch.name/
Re: [gentoo-user] do subslots improve user-experience?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 11/02/2013 07:04 AM, hasufell wrote: > Another round of questioning the users here. > > more specifically: * how often do you experience useless rebuilds? > * do you really have a problem with running > revdep-rebuild/haskell-updater/perl-cleaner etc after every > emerge? * do you think it's worth the effort to add more stuff to > the PM, so that you don't have to run revdep-rebuild that often? * > do you trust the other methods like subslots or preserved-rebuild > to work reliably? (as in: do you still use revdep-rebuild?) > > If you want my opinion on subslots: # grep EMERGE_DEFAULT_OPTS > /etc/portage/make.conf > EMERGE_DEFAULT_OPTS="--ignore-built-slot-operator-deps=y" > To be honest, I don't know what subslots are or what they do. Regular slots allow for multiple versions of a package to coexist, right? Using context and knowledge of English, a subslot tells me that it'd be a second level of slotting, which I see limited use for. It'd be most useful for development languages that have multiple subversions. In short, subslots don't seem to be visible enough for me to give an opinion on them. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJSdRr5AAoJEJUrb08JgYgHlEgH+QF954wvjrHPt15KBVuFHt1Q AOSWYmtZJFEDi/xiIpMi6a36fcyV7NY/G6jUqq7MmcGf/vW4hHOxn25cqYJd4dZB Ausb4TcAp9l86LsMdlVEJ+W4IBBVRgDnylD6TM9nUahSwwt/zQ4LzaLnbOW+V9F6 Rozj9VaXbYR5P4rfMHUK6ojZGpEtirTaaAFmmvuQH0ZkjEZzJVJqKwOxzIwIq1mf 9AUnO9cRJpXHE23xxDJ0YXQ8PZxvPnUBjQFXKj2XPoGm67bljK+3LVC9iPDQ5mLw sL5sKe83GkQK+VtxXv3MvcLi4pExJaKbPVXscsaeDbXElXYvDc6a0X7snjA0YGQ= =ki5a -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: [gentoo-user] do subslots improve user-experience?
On 02/11/2013 14:04, hasufell wrote: > Another round of questioning the users here. > > more specifically: > * how often do you experience useless rebuilds? Let's see, that depends. It mostly mostly on what is happening with poppler and icu today. Other than those, I don't recall any long-term problems relating to useless rebuilds; by and large they seem to be valid > * do you really have a problem with running > revdep-rebuild/haskell-updater/perl-cleaner etc after every emerge? No, no problem whatsoever. emerge @preserved -rebuild is my preferred method, I find it vastly superior to sub-slot operators which a) involve weird magic in the ebuild and b) I still don't understand despite reading all the docs I can find on the matter. The problem seems to be that preserved-rebuild and revdep-rebuild detect actual breakage and fix what is really wrong right now. Subslots seem to try and avoid breakage and depend heavily on amount of clue from the dev (a highly variable quantity) > * do you think it's worth the effort to add more stuff to the PM, so > that you don't have to run revdep-rebuild that often? No, subslots should be obsoleted, I consider them a failed experiment in unnecessary complexity. emerge world is already long-running, if I had a problem with a few more steps after it completes I would write a wrapper script > * do you trust the other methods like subslots or preserved-rebuild to > work reliably? (as in: do you still use revdep-rebuild?) yes, revdep-rebuild is my plan C. Occasionally it finds something, usually itcompletes in about 40 secodns and is clean. I consider those 40 seconds well spent, a final confirmation step > > If you want my opinion on subslots: > # grep EMERGE_DEFAULT_OPTS /etc/portage/make.conf > EMERGE_DEFAULT_OPTS="--ignore-built-slot-operator-deps=y" > -- Alan McKinnon Systems Engineer^W Technician Infrastructure Services Internet Solutions +27 11 575 7585 -- Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com
Re: [gentoo-user] do subslots improve user-experience?
131102 hasufell had some more questions for users : > * how often do you experience useless rebuilds? Not recently : it used to happen more often. > * do you really have a problem with running > revdep-rebuild/haskell-updater/perl-cleaner etc after every emerge? No. > * do you think it's worth the effort to add more stuff to the PM, > so that you don't have to run revdep-rebuild that often? No, as I don't need R-R anymore. > * do you trust the other methods like subslots or preserved-rebuild > to work reliably? -- do you still use revdep-rebuild? P-R seems to work adequately. My big gripe is unnecessary dependencies, eg sound for KDE & FF. It's part of the lowest-common-denominator approach which seems to characterise Gnome, Ubuntu & M$ , but Gentoo should avoid. That said, I'm generally very satisfied with Gentoo : it's just over 10 years since I first started using it. -- ,, SUPPORT ___//___, Philip Webb ELECTRIC /] [] [] [] [] []| Cities Centre, University of Toronto TRANSIT`-O--O---' purslowatchassdotutorontodotca
[gentoo-user] do subslots improve user-experience?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Another round of questioning the users here. more specifically: * how often do you experience useless rebuilds? * do you really have a problem with running revdep-rebuild/haskell-updater/perl-cleaner etc after every emerge? * do you think it's worth the effort to add more stuff to the PM, so that you don't have to run revdep-rebuild that often? * do you trust the other methods like subslots or preserved-rebuild to work reliably? (as in: do you still use revdep-rebuild?) If you want my opinion on subslots: # grep EMERGE_DEFAULT_OPTS /etc/portage/make.conf EMERGE_DEFAULT_OPTS="--ignore-built-slot-operator-deps=y" -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJSdOpkAAoJEFpvPKfnPDWzJv4IAJXrLhHVJwsc4e1rqsKeA8MP 4NWYVPLlWpcCBibd4bH6T+nIc3u0Nw7sDVprVn2clZeN7jXNftUfnGVWi2gKFg5c TserKHr9/rVAwgOEl6O8x8aR9JbvBpAevWHwxOJ066JeLgY3ziNOlU+Y0Yo4c7CN TcmxjOyPTdhaYpcfR2KLfyNkbXHSMwImHCQcjNt7zbYXaKP6UOxCPR4ihOZUjrp5 c8eWQyrfh8Ubgk0RlpbqGN7SAkIv2ERWlQgyXY+PI4SbQNM/Jou3tbyt+De5b815 8gwrXOYEp+t/HfmDEtAGuGHQzdfu5sUev6/IVnpnnXFSLwrvR3wjuSSeCaIlrx4= =eAyd -END PGP SIGNATURE-
