[gentoo-user] Re: Is Gentoo Healthy? (The Return)
On Fri, 06 Jul 2007 10:47:24 -0700, kashani wrote: I say bring on the easiness. Make a big fat button after the liveCD loads that says Just install it for me in a nice default kinda way so I can start playing with this whole USE flag thing I've heard so much about and be done with it. The irony here is that gentoo has had the live cd for a long time which makes installing so much easier, but just won't go that extra step because...it's supposed to be hard? If it's supposed to be hard, why have the live cd? seems contrary. -Thufir -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Is Gentoo Healthy? (The Return)
On Samstag, 7. Juli 2007, Thufir wrote: On Fri, 06 Jul 2007 10:47:24 -0700, kashani wrote: I say bring on the easiness. Make a big fat button after the liveCD loads that says Just install it for me in a nice default kinda way so I can start playing with this whole USE flag thing I've heard so much about and be done with it. The irony here is that gentoo has had the live cd for a long time which makes installing so much easier, but just won't go that extra step because...it's supposed to be hard? If it's supposed to be hard, why have the live cd? seems contrary. well, hard filters out the 'I am stupid and I don't read documentation' crowd, which is a good thing. I would not call the installation via graphical installer 'hard', I would call it 'buggy beyond usefullness'. Apart from that, IMHO a livecd is completly braindead. When compiling you need as much free ram as you can get. Every mb counts. And a livecd takes away A LOT of ram. Even more stupid - a livecd with gnome (which is the DE with the biggest ram usage). So we have a livecd, which is stupid in itself, for installing and a buggy installer - only because to prevent some idiots from reading the documentation. Is that really smart? -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
[gentoo-user] Re: Is Gentoo Healthy? (The Return)
On Wed, 04 Jul 2007 21:40:10 -0400, Walter Dnes wrote: Try doing that with RPMs. Generally, works fine with YUM. I expect that yum and portage are about the same, and end result differences on dependencies are more due redhat/ fedora using multiple repo's for liability/policy reasons, not due to the superiority of portage over yum. My two cents. -Thufir -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Is Gentoo Healthy? (The Return)
On Thu, 5 Jul 2007 08:37:14 + (UTC) Thufir wrote: On Wed, 04 Jul 2007 21:40:10 -0400, Walter Dnes wrote: Try doing that with RPMs. Generally, works fine with YUM. I expect that yum and portage are about the same, and end result differences on dependencies are more due redhat/ fedora using multiple repo's for liability/policy reasons, not due to the superiority of portage over yum. My two cents. -Thufir Mandrake/Mandriva has urpmi which handles RPM dependencies. Several times I've updated from one Mandriva release to the next by downloading the new release's package list then running urpmi --auto-select. Once the many packages are downloaded, the upgrade goes very well. I used YUM for a while and it worked fine, though its dependency resolving was much slower than urpmi. Gentoo with portage makes it easier to stay up-to-date with the latest and greatest. The existence of /etc/portage/package.* provides lots of power to customize but adds a significant level of complexity. urpmi and YUM are easier to use as both lack the customizability and the associated complexity. Just my $0.02. David -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Is Gentoo Healthy? (The Return)
Thufir wrote: On Wed, 04 Jul 2007 21:40:10 -0400, Walter Dnes wrote: Try doing that with RPMs. Generally, works fine with YUM. I expect that yum and portage are about the same, and end result differences on dependencies are more due redhat/ fedora using multiple repo's for liability/policy reasons, not due to the superiority of portage over yum. My two cents. -Thufir Admittedly, I haven't used any other distro but Gentoo since I made the transition in 2004, but yum wasn't perfect. I guess my complaint with yum was more on the lines of what was said above regarding the repo's. IIRC, there were many instances where I needed something in order to install something else and then, the package was not in the repo. At least with Gentoo, if there is some error on install, I can either unmask a package to solve something or wait a short period of time, till the issue is fixed, and fixed it *will be*. I don't have to go hunting for a needle in a haystack to find the repo that has what I need. But as I said, I haven't used yum in 3 years, so things may be different now. I still am not going to give up Gentoo - it's the best distro around, as far as I'm concerned. Regards, Colleen -- Registered Linux User #411143 with the Linux Counter, http://counter.li.org -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
[gentoo-user] Re: Is Gentoo Healthy? (The Return)
ยท Grant [EMAIL PROTECTED]: In December 2006 I started a thread titled Is Gentoo Healthy? in which I was roundly put down for raising the possibility that the decline in the number of Gentoo users could possibly affect the remaining Gentoo users in a negative way. Is everyone still toeing that line? The Gentoo Weekly Newsletter hasn't been published in almost two months. Is Gentoo destined to be just another distro starved for contributors and struggling to stay up to date? If so, I really misjudged it. The meta approach of Gentoo is superior to any other in my mind, and I think it's growth and potential are being stunted by the we don't need them attitude which perpetuates Gentoo's lack of usability features for beginners. Gentoo needs as many users as possible to reach its potential. It's a short-sighted mistake to think that non-contributing users do Gentoo no good. Non-contributing users become contributors as time passes. Car mechanics all start as car drivers. - Grant Hi Grant, I think Gentoo is 'healthy', in the sense that it continues to thrive. On the other hand I have, over the last 6-9 months started to think of Gentoo as 'mature'. The distro has apparently become what it is going to be. While that may not be all I hoped for it is clearly worth while and a contributing member of the group of Linux distros so that's great. As a non-developer, general work-a-day Linux user I do feel that Gentoo has lost some of its energy. Maybe that's all part of becoming a mature distro. When I first started with Gentoo in (I think 2000) this was a very lively place and it was clear that there was a real push on to grow the tools, grow the distro, grow the user base. While I think that today those metrics would still be considered valuable, it is not my view that there is a lot of energy being put into taking things to the next level. (Whatever the heck that might be!) Anyway, I value Gentoo greatly. It's been a really great distro to me. Folks have treated a non-IT Linux dummy like me with great respect and for the most part a pretty gentle hand. I've learned a lot when I wanted to. The documentation, in my mind, is second to none which makes my life easier. (Sometimes) What's in Gentoo's future? I haven't a clue. I have wondered a few times in the last year if I'd have to look for another distro one of these days.but I never have. Two to three years ago that thought never entered my mind. Hey Mark, Thanks for the insight. I hope it never happens, but if the day comes when Gentoo suffers a lack of contributors to such an extent that I have to find a new distro, where will I go? Is Debian the only other meta-distro out there? No, Debian is no meta-distro. It's a distribution just like Fedora Core or Mandriva. The only thing that sets Debian apart is, that it's a truely non-commercial distribution and that it is quite big. Another Debian specialty is, that it has a mission, so to speak. It's not exactly thriving is it? Is the meta-distro concept perhaps flawed? No, I don't think so. It's just not something which is completely main stream compatible. And I don't think that this is bad ;) The thought of installing the latest Ubuntu release, wading through a bunch of software I'll never use, and waiting for the next big release before anything is updated makes me wanna throw up. Yep. Alexander Skwar -- Your step will soil many countries. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
[gentoo-user] Re: Is Gentoo Healthy? (The Return)
On Tue, 03 Jul 2007 19:41:34 +0200, Thierry de Coulon wrote: I think the future of Gentoo could be that: an easy install for the mass, and he opportunity for the geeks to tweak that install or directly go for the total customisation. Then the install process wouldn't screen out users. -Thufir -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
[gentoo-user] Re: Is Gentoo healthy?
On 2006-12-18, Grant [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I've caught a whiff or two lately that Gentoo is declining in popularity amongst users and developers. Is it all in my head? I personally still love Gentoo. AFAICT, it's still a favorite of Grants everywhere -- Grant Edwards grante Yow! Hello. Just walk at along and try NOT to think visi.comabout your INTESTINES being almost FORTY YARDS LONG!! -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Is Gentoo healthy?
On AD 2006 December 19 Tuesday 05:23:10 PM +, Grant Edwards wrote: AFAICT, it's still a favorite of Grants everywhere I'll grant you that. Justin -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Is Gentoo healthy?
I've caught a whiff or two lately that Gentoo is declining in
popularity amongst users and developers. Is it all in my head? I
personally still love Gentoo.
AFAICT, it's still a favorite of Grants everywhere
--
Grant Edwards
{OT}
Have you noticed that Grants love other Grants? I know I do.
- Grant
--
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
