Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Java 8 and remote access

[J. Roeleveld]

On Tuesday, February 02, 2016 03:59:35 PM Thomas Sigurdsen wrote:
> On 02/02/2016 02:50 PM, Grant wrote:
>  I need to run a Java 8 app remotely.  Can this be done on Gentoo?
> >> 
> >> Bummer.  FYI guys, Amazon Workspaces, Amazon Appstream, and Microsoft
> >> Azure RemoteApp kinda work the way I've described but they all have
> >> limitations which exclude them from working for me in this case.  It
> >> looks like I'll be admin'ing another remote Gentoo system for this.
> > 
> > Do any cloud VM providers have Gentoo as an OS option?  If not, is there a
> > good one that lets you install your own OS?
> > 
> > BTW since Java is a VM I'm surprised there is no service that lets you
> > just
> > upload a Java app and run it remotely on the service without any OS
> > management.  Am I missing anything there?
> > 
> > - Grant
> 
> linode.com and kimsufi.com lets you install gentoo. There might be many
> more.

Yes, plenty.
It depends where you need them to be located.

> You might want to look into something like cfengine, puppet or chef to
> lessen your workload of running multiple machines.

Or Ansible. There are some on this list that use that to maintain multiple 
Gentoo boxes.

> I've used linode for a couple years and its never been any problem, I do
> see that I'm probably paying for more than I need, but that's another story.

--
Joost

signature.asc
Description: This is a digitally signed message part.

[gentoo-user] Re: Java 8 and remote access

[Grant]

> >> >> > > I need to run a Java 8 app remotely.  Can this be done on Gentoo?
> >> >
> Bummer.  FYI guys, Amazon Workspaces, Amazon Appstream, and Microsoft
> Azure RemoteApp kinda work the way I've described but they all have
> limitations which exclude them from working for me in this case.  It
> looks like I'll be admin'ing another remote Gentoo system for this.
>


Do any cloud VM providers have Gentoo as an OS option?  If not, is there a
good one that lets you install your own OS?

BTW since Java is a VM I'm surprised there is no service that lets you just
upload a Java app and run it remotely on the service without any OS
management.  Am I missing anything there?

- Grant

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Java 8 and remote access

[Thomas Sigurdsen]

On 02/02/2016 02:50 PM, Grant wrote:
 I need to run a Java 8 app remotely.  Can this be done on Gentoo?
>
>> Bummer.  FYI guys, Amazon Workspaces, Amazon Appstream, and Microsoft
>> Azure RemoteApp kinda work the way I've described but they all have
>> limitations which exclude them from working for me in this case.  It
>> looks like I'll be admin'ing another remote Gentoo system for this.
>>
> 
> 
> Do any cloud VM providers have Gentoo as an OS option?  If not, is there a
> good one that lets you install your own OS?
> 
> BTW since Java is a VM I'm surprised there is no service that lets you just
> upload a Java app and run it remotely on the service without any OS
> management.  Am I missing anything there?
> 
> - Grant
> 

linode.com and kimsufi.com lets you install gentoo. There might be many
more.

You might want to look into something like cfengine, puppet or chef to
lessen your workload of running multiple machines.

I've used linode for a couple years and its never been any problem, I do
see that I'm probably paying for more than I need, but that's another story.



signature.asc
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Java 8 and remote access

[Grant]

>> >> > > I need to run a Java 8 app remotely.  Can this be done on Gentoo?
>> >
>> > 
>> >
>> >> > Citrix also has a product called XenApp which is interesting because it
>> >> > is
>> >> > supposed to provide only the app as a service instead of the whole
>> >> > desktop:
>> >> >
>> >> > https://www.citrix.com/products/xenapp/overview.html
>> >> >
>> >> > Many (all?) of these don't have a Linux client but some have an HTML5
>> >> > browser plugin client.  I will try some of these and report back.
>> >> >
>> >> > - Grant
>> >>
>> >> Citrix has the citrix receiver (look for icaclient on the tree) which
>> >> will
>> >> run a remote desktop on your Gentoo.
>> >
>> > Or only the application window when using xenapp.
>> >
>> > I'm not sure if it will work with a Linux desktop. Always seen it used
>> > with MS Windows.
>>
>> I installed icaclient but I'm starting to think I have the wrong idea
>> about all of these DaaS offerings.  I'm looking for a way to avoid
>> managing an OS and instead just manage an app or (at most) a desktop
>> and access it remotely.  It looks like Citrix (and probably all of the
>> DaaS providers) don't actually provide an OS, they just provide the
>> remote control capability.  So hooking up with them is a substitute
>> for managing VNC, not a substitute for managing the OS.  Do I have
>> that right?
>>
>> - Grant
>
> icaclient = {net-misc/tigervnc,net-misc/tightvnc,www-apps/novnc,et al.}
> equivalent.
>
> You still need a remote OS, with a desktop environment running there so that
> you can connect to it.
>
> If this is available then you can run the application you want as a
> virtualised (remote) app and receive this on your local desktop, running
> within a window.  I remember setting up some MSWindows app on Windows 7 and
> receiving this on a gentoo desktop using xfreerdp.


Bummer.  FYI guys, Amazon Workspaces, Amazon Appstream, and Microsoft
Azure RemoteApp kinda work the way I've described but they all have
limitations which exclude them from working for me in this case.  It
looks like I'll be admin'ing another remote Gentoo system for this.

- Grant

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Java 8 and remote access

[Mick]

On Monday 01 Feb 2016 09:13:55 Grant wrote:
> >> > > I need to run a Java 8 app remotely.  Can this be done on Gentoo?
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >> > Citrix also has a product called XenApp which is interesting because it
> >> > is
> >> > supposed to provide only the app as a service instead of the whole
> >> > desktop:
> >> > 
> >> > https://www.citrix.com/products/xenapp/overview.html
> >> > 
> >> > Many (all?) of these don't have a Linux client but some have an HTML5
> >> > browser plugin client.  I will try some of these and report back.
> >> > 
> >> > - Grant
> >> 
> >> Citrix has the citrix receiver (look for icaclient on the tree) which
> >> will
> >> run a remote desktop on your Gentoo.
> > 
> > Or only the application window when using xenapp.
> > 
> > I'm not sure if it will work with a Linux desktop. Always seen it used
> > with MS Windows.
> 
> I installed icaclient but I'm starting to think I have the wrong idea
> about all of these DaaS offerings.  I'm looking for a way to avoid
> managing an OS and instead just manage an app or (at most) a desktop
> and access it remotely.  It looks like Citrix (and probably all of the
> DaaS providers) don't actually provide an OS, they just provide the
> remote control capability.  So hooking up with them is a substitute
> for managing VNC, not a substitute for managing the OS.  Do I have
> that right?
> 
> - Grant

icaclient = {net-misc/tigervnc,net-misc/tightvnc,www-apps/novnc,et al.} 
equivalent.

You still need a remote OS, with a desktop environment running there so that 
you can connect to it.

If this is available then you can run the application you want as a 
virtualised (remote) app and receive this on your local desktop, running 
within a window.  I remember setting up some MSWindows app on Windows 7 and 
receiving this on a gentoo desktop using xfreerdp.

-- 
Regards,
Mick

signature.asc
Description: This is a digitally signed message part.

[gentoo-user] Re: Java 8 and remote access

[James]

Grant  gmail.com> writes:


> I need to run a Java 8 app remotely.  Can this be done on Gentoo?

Surely, but there is probably some twists and performance iusses, so
I'd suggest you let  the Saas/Paas vendors work with you closely to tune
this to until you are happy. You know, checkbook engineering is probably
your best route to figure this out. The vendor with with an actual
datacenter close to your folks or with the fastest bandwidth will help
achieve the responsiveness you require. What I've experiences is there
is an over abundance of 'good will' on the part of most linux based
cluster/cloud vendors, that is most easily leveraged.


My shortlist of cloud/remote-resource vendors  for your situations is::

1) Saas/Paas close to your nearest major bandwidth exchange point.

2) http://www.soyoustart.com/us/distributions/ (planet.gentoo.org blogpost
by lu_zero on Nov-29,2015 notes gentoo is a supported distro.

3) Rackspace:: there is a reason they are one of the major players
in all levels of 'the cloud' They have a can_do spirit (no I do not work for
them, but I really like all the gentoo devs that work for them that I have
encountered in my 'cluster travels'.

Take and old fashion approach, use your checkbook and get *exactly* what
you want via the cloud vendors' staff. Then you can edit the gentoo-wiki!

> - Grant


hth,
James

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Java 8 and remote access

[Grant]

>> > > I need to run a Java 8 app remotely.  Can this be done on Gentoo?
>> >
>
> 
>
>> > Citrix also has a product called XenApp which is interesting because it is
>> > supposed to provide only the app as a service instead of the whole
>> > desktop:
>> >
>> > https://www.citrix.com/products/xenapp/overview.html
>> >
>> > Many (all?) of these don't have a Linux client but some have an HTML5
>> > browser plugin client.  I will try some of these and report back.
>> >
>> > - Grant
>>
>> Citrix has the citrix receiver (look for icaclient on the tree) which will
>> run a remote desktop on your Gentoo.
>
> Or only the application window when using xenapp.
>
> I'm not sure if it will work with a Linux desktop. Always seen it used with MS
> Windows.


I installed icaclient but I'm starting to think I have the wrong idea
about all of these DaaS offerings.  I'm looking for a way to avoid
managing an OS and instead just manage an app or (at most) a desktop
and access it remotely.  It looks like Citrix (and probably all of the
DaaS providers) don't actually provide an OS, they just provide the
remote control capability.  So hooking up with them is a substitute
for managing VNC, not a substitute for managing the OS.  Do I have
that right?

- Grant

[gentoo-user] Re: Java 8 and remote access

[Grant Edwards]

On 2016-01-31, Grant  wrote:

> Sorry, I should have been more specific.  I want to run a desktop Java
> 8 app remotely.

So you're asking how to set up some sort of remote desktop access? 

Wasn't there just a huge thread on this with a subject something like
"allowing work from home"?

-- 
Grant

[gentoo-user] Re: Java 8 and remote access

[Grant]

>
> > Sorry, I should have been more specific.  I want to run a desktop Java
> > 8 app remotely.
>
> So you're asking how to set up some sort of remote desktop access?
>
> Wasn't there just a huge thread on this with a subject something like
> "allowing work from home"?
>


That was my thread too but this is an unrelated use case.  There's a
desktop Java app I want to run in the cloud and still control the GUI and
I'm trying to figure out the best way to do that.  Maybe it's "install
Gentoo and VNC" but maybe there is a better solution.

- Grant

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Java 8 and remote access

[Mick]

On Sunday 31 Jan 2016 17:50:55 Grant wrote:
> > I need to run a Java 8 app remotely.  Can this be done on Gentoo?
> 
> I've been researching this and I think my options are a) get a VPS and
> install Gentoo, this Java GUI app, and VNC, or b) set the app up with a
> Desktop as a Service (DaaS) provider.  Option B should require a bare
> minimum of maintenance so it's really appealing.  Here are the providers
> I've found that can provide a Linux desktop:
> 
> https://www.omnis-systems.com/virtual-bridges-vdi/virtual-bridges-general-in
> formation
> 
> http://www.vdiworks.com/
> 
> https://www.vmware.com/products/daas-vspp/features
> 
> These don't specify Linux which makes me think they can only do Windows
> desktops:
> 
> http://www.dizzion.com/services/desktop-as-a-service-daas/
> 
> https://aws.amazon.com/workspaces/
> 
> https://v2cloud.com/virtual-desktop/
> 
> https://www.citrix.com/solutions/desktop-virtualization/overview.html
> 
> I suppose a Windows desktop would work since this is a Java app but I'd
> prefer Linux.
> 
> Citrix also has a product called XenApp which is interesting because it is
> supposed to provide only the app as a service instead of the whole desktop:
> 
> https://www.citrix.com/products/xenapp/overview.html
> 
> Many (all?) of these don't have a Linux client but some have an HTML5
> browser plugin client.  I will try some of these and report back.
> 
> - Grant

Citrix has the citrix receiver (look for icaclient on the tree) which will run 
a remote desktop on your Gentoo.
-- 
Regards,
Mick

signature.asc
Description: This is a digitally signed message part.

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Java 8 and remote access

[J. Roeleveld]

On Monday, February 01, 2016 06:46:04 AM Mick wrote:
> On Sunday 31 Jan 2016 17:50:55 Grant wrote:
> > > I need to run a Java 8 app remotely.  Can this be done on Gentoo?
> > 



> > Citrix also has a product called XenApp which is interesting because it is
> > supposed to provide only the app as a service instead of the whole
> > desktop:
> > 
> > https://www.citrix.com/products/xenapp/overview.html
> > 
> > Many (all?) of these don't have a Linux client but some have an HTML5
> > browser plugin client.  I will try some of these and report back.
> > 
> > - Grant
> 
> Citrix has the citrix receiver (look for icaclient on the tree) which will
> run a remote desktop on your Gentoo.

Or only the application window when using xenapp.

I'm not sure if it will work with a Linux desktop. Always seen it used with MS 
Windows.

--
Joost

signature.asc
Description: This is a digitally signed message part.

[gentoo-user] Re: Java 8 and remote access

[Grant]

> I need to run a Java 8 app remotely.  Can this be done on Gentoo?
>


I've been researching this and I think my options are a) get a VPS and
install Gentoo, this Java GUI app, and VNC, or b) set the app up with a
Desktop as a Service (DaaS) provider.  Option B should require a bare
minimum of maintenance so it's really appealing.  Here are the providers
I've found that can provide a Linux desktop:

https://www.omnis-systems.com/virtual-bridges-vdi/virtual-bridges-general-information

http://www.vdiworks.com/

https://www.vmware.com/products/daas-vspp/features

These don't specify Linux which makes me think they can only do Windows
desktops:

http://www.dizzion.com/services/desktop-as-a-service-daas/

https://aws.amazon.com/workspaces/

https://v2cloud.com/virtual-desktop/

https://www.citrix.com/solutions/desktop-virtualization/overview.html

I suppose a Windows desktop would work since this is a Java app but I'd
prefer Linux.

Citrix also has a product called XenApp which is interesting because it is
supposed to provide only the app as a service instead of the whole desktop:

https://www.citrix.com/products/xenapp/overview.html

Many (all?) of these don't have a Linux client but some have an HTML5
browser plugin client.  I will try some of these and report back.

- Grant

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Java 8 and remote access

[Jeremi Piotrowski]

On Sun, Jan 31, 2016 at 1:02 AM, Grant  wrote:
>> I need to run a Java 8 app remotely.  Can this be done on Gentoo?
>
>
> Actually I could run the app locally if there is a good way to run
> relatively untrusted Java apps.  Otherwise I should run it remotely.
>

What exactly do you mean by "run remotely"? Ssh to run on a different
host, container/vm to run locally are all viable options but I don't
quite understand what you're asking.

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Java 8 and remote access

[Jeremi Piotrowski]

On Sun, Jan 31, 2016 at 12:31:51PM +0100, Jeremi Piotrowski wrote:
> On Sun, Jan 31, 2016 at 1:02 AM, Grant  wrote:
> >> I need to run a Java 8 app remotely.  Can this be done on Gentoo?
> >
> >
> > Actually I could run the app locally if there is a good way to run
> > relatively untrusted Java apps.  Otherwise I should run it remotely.
> >
> 
> What exactly do you mean by "run remotely"? Ssh to run on a different
> host, container/vm to run locally are all viable options but I don't
> quite understand what you're asking.

Heck, since java is already running on the jVM I would even consider it
safe enough to just run as a different user or just in a chroot. 

In any case, none of this is gentoo specific.

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Java 8 and remote access

[Grant]

>> >> I need to run a Java 8 app remotely.  Can this be done on Gentoo?
>> >
>> >
>> > Actually I could run the app locally if there is a good way to run
>> > relatively untrusted Java apps.  Otherwise I should run it remotely.
>> >
>>
>> What exactly do you mean by "run remotely"? Ssh to run on a different
>> host, container/vm to run locally are all viable options but I don't
>> quite understand what you're asking.
>
> Heck, since java is already running on the jVM I would even consider it
> safe enough to just run as a different user or just in a chroot.
>
> In any case, none of this is gentoo specific.


Sorry, I should have been more specific.  I want to run a desktop Java
8 app remotely.  After more consideration I don't want to run it
locally because I want it to run all the time.  I have 2 ideas for
this:

1. set up a Gentoo install in a cloud VM, install the desktop app,
install VNC or similar
2. leverage a Platform as a service (PaaS) somehow

#1 should work but I'd rather not set up and maintain an OS instance
just for this.  Would VNC be the best way to get remote access to the
desktop app's GUI?  I don't need extremely high performance but
security and ease of setup/maintenance are important.

#2 is very appealing because it means I wouldn't have to set up and
maintain an OS, but I don't have any experience with PaaS and maybe it
isn't the right tool for this.  Does there exist a PaaS that provides
a Java environment for me to install a desktop Java app and then give
me remote control of its GUI?

- Grant

[gentoo-user] Re: Java 8 and remote access

[Grant]

> I need to run a Java 8 app remotely.  Can this be done on Gentoo?


Actually I could run the app locally if there is a good way to run
relatively untrusted Java apps.  Otherwise I should run it remotely.

- Grant