Re: [gentoo-user] Re: SDD strategies...
On Wed, 18 Mar 2020 10:47:12 -0400, Rich Freeman wrote: > > If you rely on raid, and use spinning rust, DON'T buy cheap drives. I > > like Seagate, and bought myself Barracudas. Big mistake. Next time > > round, I bought Ironwolves. Hopefully that system will soon be up and > > running, and I'll see whether that was a good choice :-) > > Can you elaborate on what the mistake was? Backblaze hasn't found > Seagate to really be any better/worse than anything else. It seems > like every vendor has a really bad model every couple of years. Maybe > the more expensive drive will last longer, but you're paying a hefty > premium. It might be cheaper to just get three drives with 3x > redundancy than two super-expensive ones with 2x redundancy. I know it's anecdotal, and I have somewhat fewer drives than Backblaze, but I've found Seagate drives to be unreliable over recent years. They were good at replacing them under warranty, but then the replacements failed. > The main issues I've seen with RAID are: > > 1. Double failures. If your RAID doesn't accommodate double failures > (RAID6/etc) then you have to consider the time required to replace a > drive and rebuild the array. As arrays get large or if you aren't > super-quick with replacements then you have more risk of double > failures. There's also the extra load on the remaining drives when rebuilding the array, at exactly the time you cannot afford another drive to fail. RAID6 helps here and, like Mark, I try to run a mixture of drives in an array to avoid problems caused by bad models or batches. -- Neil Bothwick You are a completely unique individual, just like everybody else. pgp7Ivdy4ZDcn.pgp Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: SDD strategies...
On Wed, Mar 18, 2020 at 7:47 AM Rich Freeman wrote: > > It might be cheaper to just get three drives with 3x > redundancy than two super-expensive ones with 2x redundancy. > If someone goes this direction then try to get the drives from multiple sales channels to reduce the probability of all drives coming from the same bad lot. - Mark
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: SDD strategies...
On Wed, Mar 18, 2020 at 9:49 AM antlists wrote: > > On 17/03/2020 14:29, Grant Edwards wrote: > > On 2020-03-17, Neil Bothwick wrote: > > > >> Same here. The main advantage of spinning HDs are that they are cheaper > >> to replace when they fail. I only use them when I need lots of space. > > > > Me too. If I didn't have my desktop set up as a DVR with 5TB of > > recording space, I wouldn't have any spinning drives at all. My > > personal experience so far indicates that SSDs are far more reliable > > and long-lived than spinning HDs. I would guess that about half of my > > spinning HDs fail in under 5 years. But then again, I tend to buy > > pretty cheap models. > > > If you rely on raid, and use spinning rust, DON'T buy cheap drives. I > like Seagate, and bought myself Barracudas. Big mistake. Next time > round, I bought Ironwolves. Hopefully that system will soon be up and > running, and I'll see whether that was a good choice :-) Can you elaborate on what the mistake was? Backblaze hasn't found Seagate to really be any better/worse than anything else. It seems like every vendor has a really bad model every couple of years. Maybe the more expensive drive will last longer, but you're paying a hefty premium. It might be cheaper to just get three drives with 3x redundancy than two super-expensive ones with 2x redundancy. The main issues I've seen with RAID are: 1. Double failures. If your RAID doesn't accommodate double failures (RAID6/etc) then you have to consider the time required to replace a drive and rebuild the array. As arrays get large or if you aren't super-quick with replacements then you have more risk of double failures. Maybe you could mitigate that with drives that are less likely to fail at the same time, but I suspect you're better off having enough redundancy to deal with the problem. 2. Drive fails and the system becomes unstable/etc. This is usually a controller problem, and is probably less likely for better controllers. It could also be a kernel issue if the driver/failesystem/etc doesn't handle the erroneous data. I think the only place you could impact this risk is with the controller, not the drive. If the drive sends garbage over the interface then the controller should not pass along invalid data or allow that to interface with functioning drives. This is one of the reasons that I've been trying to move towards lizardfs or other distributed filesystems. This puts the redundancy at the host level. I can lose all the drives on a host, the host, its controller, its power supply, or whatever, and nothing bad happens. Typically in these systems drives aren't explicitly paired but data is just generally pooled, so if data is lost the entire cluster starts replicating it to return redundancy, and that rebuild gets split across all hosts and starts instantly and not after you add a drive unless you were running near-full. One host replicating one 12TB drive takes a lot longer than 10 hosts replicating 1.2TB each to another host in parallel as long as your network switches can run at full network capacity per host at the same time and you have no bottlenecks. -- Rich
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: SDD strategies...
On 17/03/2020 14:29, Grant Edwards wrote: On 2020-03-17, Neil Bothwick wrote: Same here. The main advantage of spinning HDs are that they are cheaper to replace when they fail. I only use them when I need lots of space. Me too. If I didn't have my desktop set up as a DVR with 5TB of recording space, I wouldn't have any spinning drives at all. My personal experience so far indicates that SSDs are far more reliable and long-lived than spinning HDs. I would guess that about half of my spinning HDs fail in under 5 years. But then again, I tend to buy pretty cheap models. If you rely on raid, and use spinning rust, DON'T buy cheap drives. I like Seagate, and bought myself Barracudas. Big mistake. Next time round, I bought Ironwolves. Hopefully that system will soon be up and running, and I'll see whether that was a good choice :-) Cheers, Wol
[gentoo-user] Re: SDD strategies...
On 2020-03-17, Neil Bothwick wrote: > Same here. The main advantage of spinning HDs are that they are cheaper > to replace when they fail. I only use them when I need lots of space. Me too. If I didn't have my desktop set up as a DVR with 5TB of recording space, I wouldn't have any spinning drives at all. My personal experience so far indicates that SSDs are far more reliable and long-lived than spinning HDs. I would guess that about half of my spinning HDs fail in under 5 years. But then again, I tend to buy pretty cheap models. -- Grant
