Re: [gentoo-user] depclean missing packages

[Róbert Čerňanský]

On Wed, 4 Jan 2017 21:32:50 +0100
Arve Barsnes  wrote:

> On 4 January 2017 at 21:25, Daniel Frey  wrote:
> 
> > I always do `emerge -uDN world`. Which is --update --deep
> > --newuse... I've just never had that happen with depclean before.
> > Odd, no?
> >
> > I usually do:
> >
> > `emerge -uDN world`
> >
> > and
> >
> > `emerge -ac` to depclean afterwards.
> >
> > As I use --deep all the time, I'm still confused as to why needed
> > packages weren't installed.
> >
> >  
> I've also always used --deep, but I've seen this many times. I've
> recently started using "--with-bdeps=y" as well, and I don't think
> I've seen this happen since then, so I'm guessing binary deps are the
> culprit.

I think so too.  Since Dan does not use --with-bdeps this is what
might happen:

'qtdeclarative', 'qtxml' and 'qtcore' were updated from 5.6.1 to a
higher version.  However 'linguist-tools', being only a build
dependency, was not updated and remains at version 5.6.1.  Since
'linguist-tools-5.6.1' depends on 'qtdeclarative-5.6.1', 'qtxml-5.6.1'
and 'qtcore-5.6.1' --depclean resolves those as missing packages.

So as Arve is saying - using --with-bdeps should prevent this.  There
are two ways how to use it:

- As 'emerge -uDN --with-bdeps=y world' - in this case build
dependencies will be updated as well.

- As 'emerge -ac --with-bdeps=n' - in this case build dependencies
will be depcleaned (removed).  Notice there is 'n' in --with-bdeps.

I prefer second option since this leaves a clean system where only
packages required to run it are installed.  Disadvantage is that upon
next update the build dependencies are emerged again, so it takes more
time to update the system.

Robert


-- 
Róbert Čerňanský
E-mail: ope...@tightmail.com
Jabber: h...@jabber.sk

Re: [gentoo-user] depclean missing packages

[Dale]

Alan McKinnon wrote:
> On 05/01/2017 06:46, Dale wrote:
>> Alan McKinnon wrote:
>>> On 04/01/2017 22:25, Daniel Frey wrote:
 On 01/04/2017 08:30 AM, Neil Bothwick wrote:
> On Wed, 4 Jan 2017 18:11:10 +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote:
>
>>> Using the --deep switch can / does pull in a lot of seemingly extra
>>> packages.  
>> --deep is practically *required* to do a full proper update.
>>
>> Say A is in world, and A depends on B which depends on C.
>> C is updated in the tree, and usually you will want C updated.
>>
>> However, update world will NOT update C.
>> Why? Because "world" is not a synonym for "everything",
>> "world" is something quite literal - the exact contents of
>> /var/lib/portage/world (and /var/lib/portage/world_sets if present)
>> "update world" updates that list only.
> That's not quite true, according to the man page. Without --deep portage
> considers only the specified files and their immediate dependencies
> (deps that are listed in the package's ebuild). So without --deep,
> updates to B as well a A would be picked up, but not C.
>
>> Adding --deep follows the
>> dependencies of the list, basically meaning
>>
>> "update --deep world" IS a synonym for "everything"
 I always do `emerge -uDN world`. Which is --update --deep --newuse...
 I've just never had that happen with depclean before. Odd, no?

 I usually do:

 `emerge -uDN world`

 and

 `emerge -ac` to depclean afterwards.

 As I use --deep all the time, I'm still confused as to why needed
 packages weren't installed.

 Dan

>>> s/I always do/I always do except this once when I forgot and then forgot
>>> that I forgot/g
>>>
>>>
>> This is why adding some options to make.conf is a good idea as you
>> already know.  I added -1 ages ago.  Why?  I would be trying to get a
>> update done and needed to do a few by hand and would forget the -1
>> option.  One can only imagine what the world file looked like.  lol 
>> Since I added -1 to make.conf, nothing has went into the world file that
>> I didn't add there on purpose.  Of course, one has to remember to use
>> --select y to add those new packages but in general, I may do that a few
>> times a year where I average updating about twice a week.  Plus, when
>> you do -a --depclean and it spits out the list, you will see it and slap
>> your forehead and then go add it if you really want to keep it around. 
>>
>> In all honesty, I can't imagine how a person can keep a Gentoo install
>> up to date without adding that or having a really crappy looking world
>> file.  ;-)
>>
>> I wonder why the -1 isn't there by default???  I would think it would be
>> a problem only when doing the initial install, when you want to add a
>> lot of packages to the world file since most likely, nothing is there. 
>> Just a thought. 
> -1 isn't there by default because the purpose of emerge is to build and
> install something, then remember you did it.
>
> What -1 does is build and install something then neglect to record you
> did it.
>
> -1 cannot ever possibly be a good default.
>
>


That's true but for the purpose I was speaking of, once your install is
done, most emerges then are either updates or trying to update doing one
package at a time, to avoid conflicts etc.  If I built a new rig and was
doing a fresh install, then I would want everything I install recorded
in the world file.  Once I get the install done and I'm to the point
that I'm mostly updating, I don't generally want individual packages
recorded. 

I see the point and during a install, no one would want that as a
default.  That's likely the reason it isn't. 

Dale

:-)  :-)

Re: [gentoo-user] depclean missing packages

[Alan McKinnon]

On 05/01/2017 06:46, Dale wrote:
> Alan McKinnon wrote:
>> On 04/01/2017 22:25, Daniel Frey wrote:
>>> On 01/04/2017 08:30 AM, Neil Bothwick wrote:
 On Wed, 4 Jan 2017 18:11:10 +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote:

>> Using the --deep switch can / does pull in a lot of seemingly extra
>> packages.  
> --deep is practically *required* to do a full proper update.
>
> Say A is in world, and A depends on B which depends on C.
> C is updated in the tree, and usually you will want C updated.
>
> However, update world will NOT update C.
> Why? Because "world" is not a synonym for "everything",
> "world" is something quite literal - the exact contents of
> /var/lib/portage/world (and /var/lib/portage/world_sets if present)
> "update world" updates that list only.
 That's not quite true, according to the man page. Without --deep portage
 considers only the specified files and their immediate dependencies
 (deps that are listed in the package's ebuild). So without --deep,
 updates to B as well a A would be picked up, but not C.

> Adding --deep follows the
> dependencies of the list, basically meaning
>
> "update --deep world" IS a synonym for "everything"

>>> I always do `emerge -uDN world`. Which is --update --deep --newuse...
>>> I've just never had that happen with depclean before. Odd, no?
>>>
>>> I usually do:
>>>
>>> `emerge -uDN world`
>>>
>>> and
>>>
>>> `emerge -ac` to depclean afterwards.
>>>
>>> As I use --deep all the time, I'm still confused as to why needed
>>> packages weren't installed.
>>>
>>> Dan
>>>
>> s/I always do/I always do except this once when I forgot and then forgot
>> that I forgot/g
>>
>>
> 
> This is why adding some options to make.conf is a good idea as you
> already know.  I added -1 ages ago.  Why?  I would be trying to get a
> update done and needed to do a few by hand and would forget the -1
> option.  One can only imagine what the world file looked like.  lol 
> Since I added -1 to make.conf, nothing has went into the world file that
> I didn't add there on purpose.  Of course, one has to remember to use
> --select y to add those new packages but in general, I may do that a few
> times a year where I average updating about twice a week.  Plus, when
> you do -a --depclean and it spits out the list, you will see it and slap
> your forehead and then go add it if you really want to keep it around. 
> 
> In all honesty, I can't imagine how a person can keep a Gentoo install
> up to date without adding that or having a really crappy looking world
> file.  ;-)
> 
> I wonder why the -1 isn't there by default???  I would think it would be
> a problem only when doing the initial install, when you want to add a
> lot of packages to the world file since most likely, nothing is there. 
> Just a thought. 

-1 isn't there by default because the purpose of emerge is to build and
install something, then remember you did it.

What -1 does is build and install something then neglect to record you
did it.

-1 cannot ever possibly be a good default.


-- 
Alan McKinnon
alan.mckin...@gmail.com

Re: [gentoo-user] depclean missing packages

[Dale]

Alan McKinnon wrote:
> On 04/01/2017 22:25, Daniel Frey wrote:
>> On 01/04/2017 08:30 AM, Neil Bothwick wrote:
>>> On Wed, 4 Jan 2017 18:11:10 +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote:
>>>
> Using the --deep switch can / does pull in a lot of seemingly extra
> packages.  
 --deep is practically *required* to do a full proper update.

 Say A is in world, and A depends on B which depends on C.
 C is updated in the tree, and usually you will want C updated.

 However, update world will NOT update C.
 Why? Because "world" is not a synonym for "everything",
 "world" is something quite literal - the exact contents of
 /var/lib/portage/world (and /var/lib/portage/world_sets if present)
 "update world" updates that list only.
>>> That's not quite true, according to the man page. Without --deep portage
>>> considers only the specified files and their immediate dependencies
>>> (deps that are listed in the package's ebuild). So without --deep,
>>> updates to B as well a A would be picked up, but not C.
>>>
 Adding --deep follows the
 dependencies of the list, basically meaning

 "update --deep world" IS a synonym for "everything"
>>>
>> I always do `emerge -uDN world`. Which is --update --deep --newuse...
>> I've just never had that happen with depclean before. Odd, no?
>>
>> I usually do:
>>
>> `emerge -uDN world`
>>
>> and
>>
>> `emerge -ac` to depclean afterwards.
>>
>> As I use --deep all the time, I'm still confused as to why needed
>> packages weren't installed.
>>
>> Dan
>>
> s/I always do/I always do except this once when I forgot and then forgot
> that I forgot/g
>
>

This is why adding some options to make.conf is a good idea as you
already know.  I added -1 ages ago.  Why?  I would be trying to get a
update done and needed to do a few by hand and would forget the -1
option.  One can only imagine what the world file looked like.  lol 
Since I added -1 to make.conf, nothing has went into the world file that
I didn't add there on purpose.  Of course, one has to remember to use
--select y to add those new packages but in general, I may do that a few
times a year where I average updating about twice a week.  Plus, when
you do -a --depclean and it spits out the list, you will see it and slap
your forehead and then go add it if you really want to keep it around. 

In all honesty, I can't imagine how a person can keep a Gentoo install
up to date without adding that or having a really crappy looking world
file.  ;-)

I wonder why the -1 isn't there by default???  I would think it would be
a problem only when doing the initial install, when you want to add a
lot of packages to the world file since most likely, nothing is there. 
Just a thought. 

Dale

:-)  :-) 

Re: [gentoo-user] depclean missing packages

[Alan McKinnon]

On 04/01/2017 22:32, Arve Barsnes wrote:
> On 4 January 2017 at 21:25, Daniel Frey  > wrote:
> 
> I always do `emerge -uDN world`. Which is --update --deep --newuse...
> I've just never had that happen with depclean before. Odd, no?
> 
> I usually do:
> 
> `emerge -uDN world`
> 
> and
> 
> `emerge -ac` to depclean afterwards.
> 
> As I use --deep all the time, I'm still confused as to why needed
> packages weren't installed.
> 
> 
> I've also always used --deep, but I've seen this many times. I've
> recently started using "--with-bdeps=y" as well, and I don't think I've
> seen this happen since then, so I'm guessing binary deps are the culprit.
> 
> Arve
> 


bdeps are not binary deps, they are build deps.

And Qt will never be a build-dep in this case. cmake maybe but Qt no

-- 
Alan McKinnon
alan.mckin...@gmail.com

Re: [gentoo-user] depclean missing packages

[Alan McKinnon]

On 04/01/2017 22:25, Daniel Frey wrote:
> On 01/04/2017 08:30 AM, Neil Bothwick wrote:
>> On Wed, 4 Jan 2017 18:11:10 +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote:
>>
 Using the --deep switch can / does pull in a lot of seemingly extra
 packages.  
>>>
>>> --deep is practically *required* to do a full proper update.
>>>
>>> Say A is in world, and A depends on B which depends on C.
>>> C is updated in the tree, and usually you will want C updated.
>>>
>>> However, update world will NOT update C.
>>> Why? Because "world" is not a synonym for "everything",
>>> "world" is something quite literal - the exact contents of
>>> /var/lib/portage/world (and /var/lib/portage/world_sets if present)
>>
>>> "update world" updates that list only.
>>
>> That's not quite true, according to the man page. Without --deep portage
>> considers only the specified files and their immediate dependencies
>> (deps that are listed in the package's ebuild). So without --deep,
>> updates to B as well a A would be picked up, but not C.
>>
>>> Adding --deep follows the
>>> dependencies of the list, basically meaning
>>>
>>> "update --deep world" IS a synonym for "everything"
>>
>>
> 
> I always do `emerge -uDN world`. Which is --update --deep --newuse...
> I've just never had that happen with depclean before. Odd, no?
> 
> I usually do:
> 
> `emerge -uDN world`
> 
> and
> 
> `emerge -ac` to depclean afterwards.
> 
> As I use --deep all the time, I'm still confused as to why needed
> packages weren't installed.
> 
> Dan
> 

s/I always do/I always do except this once when I forgot and then forgot
that I forgot/g


-- 
Alan McKinnon
alan.mckin...@gmail.com

Re: [gentoo-user] depclean missing packages

[Arve Barsnes]

On 4 January 2017 at 21:25, Daniel Frey  wrote:

> I always do `emerge -uDN world`. Which is --update --deep --newuse...
> I've just never had that happen with depclean before. Odd, no?
>
> I usually do:
>
> `emerge -uDN world`
>
> and
>
> `emerge -ac` to depclean afterwards.
>
> As I use --deep all the time, I'm still confused as to why needed
> packages weren't installed.
>
>
I've also always used --deep, but I've seen this many times. I've recently
started using "--with-bdeps=y" as well, and I don't think I've seen this
happen since then, so I'm guessing binary deps are the culprit.

Arve

Re: [gentoo-user] depclean missing packages

[Daniel Frey]

On 01/04/2017 08:30 AM, Neil Bothwick wrote:
> On Wed, 4 Jan 2017 18:11:10 +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote:
> 
>>> Using the --deep switch can / does pull in a lot of seemingly extra
>>> packages.  
>>
>> --deep is practically *required* to do a full proper update.
>>
>> Say A is in world, and A depends on B which depends on C.
>> C is updated in the tree, and usually you will want C updated.
>>
>> However, update world will NOT update C.
>> Why? Because "world" is not a synonym for "everything",
>> "world" is something quite literal - the exact contents of
>> /var/lib/portage/world (and /var/lib/portage/world_sets if present)
> 
>> "update world" updates that list only.
> 
> That's not quite true, according to the man page. Without --deep portage
> considers only the specified files and their immediate dependencies
> (deps that are listed in the package's ebuild). So without --deep,
> updates to B as well a A would be picked up, but not C.
> 
>> Adding --deep follows the
>> dependencies of the list, basically meaning
>>
>> "update --deep world" IS a synonym for "everything"
> 
> 

I always do `emerge -uDN world`. Which is --update --deep --newuse...
I've just never had that happen with depclean before. Odd, no?

I usually do:

`emerge -uDN world`

and

`emerge -ac` to depclean afterwards.

As I use --deep all the time, I'm still confused as to why needed
packages weren't installed.

Dan

Re: [gentoo-user] depclean missing packages

[Neil Bothwick]

On Wed, 4 Jan 2017 18:11:10 +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote:

> > Using the --deep switch can / does pull in a lot of seemingly extra
> > packages.  
> 
> --deep is practically *required* to do a full proper update.
> 
> Say A is in world, and A depends on B which depends on C.
> C is updated in the tree, and usually you will want C updated.
> 
> However, update world will NOT update C.
> Why? Because "world" is not a synonym for "everything",
> "world" is something quite literal - the exact contents of
> /var/lib/portage/world (and /var/lib/portage/world_sets if present)

> "update world" updates that list only.

That's not quite true, according to the man page. Without --deep portage
considers only the specified files and their immediate dependencies
(deps that are listed in the package's ebuild). So without --deep,
updates to B as well a A would be picked up, but not C.

> Adding --deep follows the
> dependencies of the list, basically meaning
> 
> "update --deep world" IS a synonym for "everything"


-- 
Neil Bothwick

O.K. I'm weird, but I'm saving up to become eccentric.


pgpuWMTcdg3Fm.pgp
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: [gentoo-user] depclean missing packages

[Alan McKinnon]

On 04/01/2017 18:06, Corbin Bird wrote:
> 
> On 01/03/2017 02:42 PM, Daniel Frey wrote:
>> So, for the first time I've seen the following message after an `emerge
>> -uDN world`:
>>
>>
>> # emerge -cp
>>
>>  * Always study the list of packages to be cleaned for any obvious
>>  * mistakes. Packages that are part of the world set will always
>>  * be kept.  They can be manually added to this set with
>>  * `emerge --noreplace `.  Packages that are listed in
>>  * package.provided (see portage(5)) will be removed by
>>  * depclean, even if they are part of the world set.
>>  *
>>  * As a safety measure, depclean will not remove any packages
>>  * unless *all* required dependencies have been resolved.  As a
>>  * consequence of this, it often becomes necessary to run
>>  * `emerge --update --newuse --deep @world` prior to depclean.
>>
>> Calculating dependencies... done!
>>  * Dependencies could not be completely resolved due to
>>  * the following required packages not being installed:
>>  *
>>  *   ~dev-qt/qtdeclarative-5.6.1 pulled in by:
>>  * dev-qt/linguist-tools-5.6.1
>>  *
>>  *   ~dev-qt/qtxml-5.6.1 pulled in by:
>>  * dev-qt/linguist-tools-5.6.1
>>  *
>>  *   ~dev-qt/qtcore-5.6.1 pulled in by:
>>  * dev-qt/linguist-tools-5.6.1
>>  *
>>  * Have you forgotten to do a complete update prior to depclean? The
>>  * most comprehensive command for this purpose is as follows:
>>  *
>>  *   emerge --update --newuse --deep --with-bdeps=y @world
>>  *
>>  * Note that the --with-bdeps=y option is not required in many
>>  * situations. Refer to the emerge manual page (run `man emerge`)
>>  * for more information about --with-bdeps.
>>  *
>>  * Also, note that it may be necessary to manually uninstall
>>  * packages that no longer exist in the portage tree, since it may
>>  * not be possible to satisfy their dependencies.
>>
>> What I don't understand is why these packages were not installed in the
>> first place. Should this be reported as a bug? I've ran an update with
>> --with-bdeps as suggested and it's telling me 20 packages are missing
>> from my system! (And is currently installing them.)
>>
>> What I don't understand is I've been updating and depcleaning for more
>> than a decade and haven't seen that message before. Am I just lucky?
>>
>> Dan
>>
> 
> One switch makes all the difference : --deep
> 
> I have not been getting that error message.
> What I have been using  : emerge --update --tree --newuse --deep
> --with-bdeps=y @world
> 
> Using the --deep switch can / does pull in a lot of seemingly extra
> packages.

--deep is practically *required* to do a full proper update.

Say A is in world, and A depends on B which depends on C.
C is updated in the tree, and usually you will want C updated.

However, update world will NOT update C.
Why? Because "world" is not a synonym for "everything",
"world" is something quite literal - the exact contents of
/var/lib/portage/world (and /var/lib/portage/world_sets if present)

"update world" updates that list only. Adding --deep follows the
dependencies of the list, basically meaning

"update --deep world" IS a synonym for "everything"


-- 
Alan McKinnon
alan.mckin...@gmail.com

Re: [gentoo-user] depclean missing packages

[Corbin Bird]

On 01/03/2017 02:42 PM, Daniel Frey wrote:
> So, for the first time I've seen the following message after an `emerge
> -uDN world`:
>
>
> # emerge -cp
>
>  * Always study the list of packages to be cleaned for any obvious
>  * mistakes. Packages that are part of the world set will always
>  * be kept.  They can be manually added to this set with
>  * `emerge --noreplace `.  Packages that are listed in
>  * package.provided (see portage(5)) will be removed by
>  * depclean, even if they are part of the world set.
>  *
>  * As a safety measure, depclean will not remove any packages
>  * unless *all* required dependencies have been resolved.  As a
>  * consequence of this, it often becomes necessary to run
>  * `emerge --update --newuse --deep @world` prior to depclean.
>
> Calculating dependencies... done!
>  * Dependencies could not be completely resolved due to
>  * the following required packages not being installed:
>  *
>  *   ~dev-qt/qtdeclarative-5.6.1 pulled in by:
>  * dev-qt/linguist-tools-5.6.1
>  *
>  *   ~dev-qt/qtxml-5.6.1 pulled in by:
>  * dev-qt/linguist-tools-5.6.1
>  *
>  *   ~dev-qt/qtcore-5.6.1 pulled in by:
>  * dev-qt/linguist-tools-5.6.1
>  *
>  * Have you forgotten to do a complete update prior to depclean? The
>  * most comprehensive command for this purpose is as follows:
>  *
>  *   emerge --update --newuse --deep --with-bdeps=y @world
>  *
>  * Note that the --with-bdeps=y option is not required in many
>  * situations. Refer to the emerge manual page (run `man emerge`)
>  * for more information about --with-bdeps.
>  *
>  * Also, note that it may be necessary to manually uninstall
>  * packages that no longer exist in the portage tree, since it may
>  * not be possible to satisfy their dependencies.
>
> What I don't understand is why these packages were not installed in the
> first place. Should this be reported as a bug? I've ran an update with
> --with-bdeps as suggested and it's telling me 20 packages are missing
> from my system! (And is currently installing them.)
>
> What I don't understand is I've been updating and depcleaning for more
> than a decade and haven't seen that message before. Am I just lucky?
>
> Dan
>

One switch makes all the difference : --deep

I have not been getting that error message.
What I have been using  : emerge --update --tree --newuse --deep
--with-bdeps=y @world

Using the --deep switch can / does pull in a lot of seemingly extra
packages.

Hope this helps.

Re: [gentoo-user] depclean missing packages

[Arve Barsnes]

On 3 January 2017 at 21:42, Daniel Frey  wrote:

> What I don't understand is I've been updating and depcleaning for more
> than a decade and haven't seen that message before. Am I just lucky?
>

Yes.

I've seen this many times.

Arve

[gentoo-user] depclean missing packages

[Daniel Frey]

So, for the first time I've seen the following message after an `emerge
-uDN world`:


# emerge -cp

 * Always study the list of packages to be cleaned for any obvious
 * mistakes. Packages that are part of the world set will always
 * be kept.  They can be manually added to this set with
 * `emerge --noreplace `.  Packages that are listed in
 * package.provided (see portage(5)) will be removed by
 * depclean, even if they are part of the world set.
 *
 * As a safety measure, depclean will not remove any packages
 * unless *all* required dependencies have been resolved.  As a
 * consequence of this, it often becomes necessary to run
 * `emerge --update --newuse --deep @world` prior to depclean.

Calculating dependencies... done!
 * Dependencies could not be completely resolved due to
 * the following required packages not being installed:
 *
 *   ~dev-qt/qtdeclarative-5.6.1 pulled in by:
 * dev-qt/linguist-tools-5.6.1
 *
 *   ~dev-qt/qtxml-5.6.1 pulled in by:
 * dev-qt/linguist-tools-5.6.1
 *
 *   ~dev-qt/qtcore-5.6.1 pulled in by:
 * dev-qt/linguist-tools-5.6.1
 *
 * Have you forgotten to do a complete update prior to depclean? The
 * most comprehensive command for this purpose is as follows:
 *
 *   emerge --update --newuse --deep --with-bdeps=y @world
 *
 * Note that the --with-bdeps=y option is not required in many
 * situations. Refer to the emerge manual page (run `man emerge`)
 * for more information about --with-bdeps.
 *
 * Also, note that it may be necessary to manually uninstall
 * packages that no longer exist in the portage tree, since it may
 * not be possible to satisfy their dependencies.

What I don't understand is why these packages were not installed in the
first place. Should this be reported as a bug? I've ran an update with
--with-bdeps as suggested and it's telling me 20 packages are missing
from my system! (And is currently installing them.)

What I don't understand is I've been updating and depcleaning for more
than a decade and haven't seen that message before. Am I just lucky?

Dan