Re: [gentoo-user] emerge --newuse misses package that new USE affects
Willie Wong wrote: On Thu, Nov 24, 2005 at 11:01:43AM -0800, glen martin wrote: Seems a truism, but you're right. apache isn't in my world file. somehow. And adding it to my world file does work around the symptom I describe. This begs the question of why it isn't there, considering it is installed. I must wonder, what else that I've installed has somehow not been added to the world file. Perhaps I'm exposing my ignorance, but is the world file not supposed to have everything that is installed and not in the base system definition? Under what circumstances (other than failed/aborted emerge, which didn't happen) could something fail to go into world? simple. Maybe you installed apache with 'emerge --oneshot' which doesn't modify the world file. Maybe apache was installed as a dependency of something else, and that something else has since got removed. Ok, so ignorance. :) I've tracked down what happened and offer it up as a lesson. I installed apache as a dependency of metadot. Metadot itself is masked by ~x86, so I did that install with ACCEPT_KEYWORDS=~x86 emerge metadot a syntax I picked up from a HOWTO or FAQ or article someplace. metadot was in the world file, but because it has no unmasked version, without ~x86 it has no dependencies. So apache was not required by anything else in the system. Indeed, depclean offered to remove it, despite the fact that it was in use, indeed was currently being used by an active service. On reflection, the right way to install metadot was not to use the syntax above, but probably instead to use /etc/portage/package.keywords to specify the ~x86 keyword for metadot permanently. Certainly post-install, setting this caused --newuse to correspond better to my expectations. Thanks again to those whose suggestions and comments helped in tracking this down. As an aside, I wonder whether it is a good feature idea that ACCEPT_KEYWORDS=keyword emerge foo without --oneshot should automatically add foo keyword to the package.keywords file. glen -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] emerge --newuse misses package that new USE affects
glen martin schreef: As an aside, I wonder whether it is a good feature idea that ACCEPT_KEYWORDS=keyword emerge foo without --oneshot should automatically add foo keyword to the package.keywords file. That's an idea with some merit, but imo not enough (merit) to make it feasible (but it's not my decision; submit a feature request and see what happens). You now know firsthand one of the many reasons that using ACCEPT_KEYWORDS on the command line is *not* recommended. It is a temporary setting, useful only for testing situations. The fact that if you use it, then decide to make the testing situation permanent but do not add a permanent setting (in package.keywords), you will encounter problems of this sort underlines the nature of the setting (temporary, temporary, use for explicit testing only; if you want a permanent setting, make one explicitly). The idea of having the temporary setting invisibly add a permanent setting seems cool, but undermines both the function of the temporary setting (since it's no longer truly temporary), and the function of the permanent setting (since you have not explicitly made the setting, you may or may not want it set), and what about dependencies? You'd have to unmask them explicitly (or else you'll get a lot of thus and so cannot be installed because thus and so is masked errors, and if you have to do that, you've already destroyed any usefulness an automatic addition might have had. So it's not something for me, but I'm weird ;-) ; others might feel differently. Holly -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] emerge --newuse misses package that new USE affects
Holly Bostick wrote: glen martin schreef: As an aside, I wonder whether it is a good feature idea that ACCEPT_KEYWORDS=keyword emerge foo without --oneshot should automatically add foo keyword to the package.keywords file. That's an idea with some merit, but imo not enough (merit) to make it feasible (but it's not my decision; submit a feature request and see what happens). You now know firsthand one of the many reasons that using ACCEPT_KEYWORDS on the command line is *not* recommended. It is a temporary setting, useful only for testing situations. That makes sense. I hadn't encountered that recommendation at the time - I'd seen the ACCEPT_KEYWORDS syntax without such warning. Not in the man page, obviously, which has it right. The idea of having the temporary setting invisibly add a permanent setting seems cool, The trick here is the word 'temporary'. If 'temporary', the keyword --oneshot would (should?) be present. In absence thereof ... It seems analogous to the world file - the world file is the permanent specification, and it written per presence or absence of oneshot. Why not so for /etc/portage/package.*? How are those files different-in-kind from world? I don't know. I am far from an expert at the design philosophy behind these tools. I just note that there seem to be failures of consistency in application (or not) of a flag across different situations. Permanence for one setting is accomplished with a flag (well, absence), permanence for another requires a file change and the flag is ignored. Or there's a failure in my understanding, which I've found to be very well served by saying the wrong things and waiting for stones. So it's not something for me, but I'm weird ;-) I am too. Without the smiley. Or so is frequently said. glen -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] emerge --newuse misses package that new USE affects
glen martin schreef: Holly Bostick wrote: glen martin schreef: As an aside, I wonder whether it is a good feature idea that ACCEPT_KEYWORDS=keyword emerge foo without --oneshot should automatically add foo keyword to the package.keywords file. That's an idea with some merit, but imo not enough (merit) to make it feasible (but it's not my decision; submit a feature request and see what happens). You now know firsthand one of the many reasons that using ACCEPT_KEYWORDS on the command line is *not* recommended. It is a temporary setting, useful only for testing situations. That makes sense. I hadn't encountered that recommendation at the time - I'd seen the ACCEPT_KEYWORDS syntax without such warning. Not in the man page, obviously, which has it right. The idea of having the temporary setting invisibly add a permanent setting seems cool, The trick here is the word 'temporary'. If 'temporary', the keyword --oneshot would (should?) be present. In absence thereof ... It seems analogous to the world file - the world file is the permanent specification, and it written per presence or absence of oneshot. Why not so for /etc/portage/package.*? How are those files different-in-kind from world? OK, I'm not an expert either, but I *think* that the issue is the fact that ACCEPT_KEYWORDS and emerge are *two separate commands*. Are you familiar with exporting variables? ACCEPT_KEYWORDS is, of course a variable. When you export a variable (DISPLAY, LD_ASSUME_KERNEL, LD_LIBRARY_PATH, LD_PRELOAD, PS1, ACCEPT_KEYWORDS), the variable is changed for the current login shell session, but is not persistent. Period. That has nothing to do with Portage or any program, that's how Linux works. Variables are permanently set in configuration files (in the case of ACCEPT_KEYWORDS, in /etc/make.conf, with modifications allowed from /etc/portage/package.keywords). Most of the time, the temporary nature of this change can be assumed without thinking-- if the startup script for Neverwinter Nights includes an export LD_LIBRARY_PATH=./lib:./miles:$LD_LIBRARY_PATH command, the fact that it's temporary doesn't matter, because it only needs to be in effect while I'm running Neverwinter Nights, which is a temporary condition. This is completely different from the state of the Portage tree and your world file when running emerge. Basically, when you use ACCEPT_KEYWORDS on the command line, you are changing a variable temporarily, which Portage then reads, but because the condition does not persist-- and the state of Portage variables must persist across sessions-- you're essentially confusing Portage, which must rely on you to have a stable list of variable conditions in order for it to know what it's doing. This is not a flaw in Portage, it's just how it's constructed, and it really couldn't be constructed any better than it is-- it already does a lot more than one might have thought possible in terms of being flexible and 'pushing the envelope'. But the conditions of the environment must be respected. There is no way for Portage to become aware that you exported a variable prior to running the emerge command, and so there is no way for Portage to automatically add the --oneshot switch if you had done so, in the same way that --update implies --pretend or whichever switch it is that implies another, so the second switch is automatically added if the first is present. Because (export) ACCEPT_KEYWORDS is not part of the emerge command, and the emerge command can only adjust itself, based on its own settings, not other settings that you have manually adjusted prior to running the command. If you see what I mean. Anyway, I could be totally wrong, but I think it hangs together, and I suspect it is in fact the case. Perhaps it could be better explained to people, though, so that they understood the relationship between the variables that Portage is reading and the commands that one might run to modify them. Of course, a good thorough grounding in shell operations would take care of that, too, I suppose Holly -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] emerge --newuse misses package that new USE affects
On Fri, 25 Nov 2005 06:16:40 -0800, glen martin wrote: As an aside, I wonder whether it is a good feature idea that ACCEPT_KEYWORDS=keyword emerge foo without --oneshot should automatically add foo keyword to the package.keywords file. It's a bad idea. Specifying a setting on the command line is temporary, and is useful when used as such. Making a setting the user intends to be temporary permanent is a recipe for disaster. -- Neil Bothwick I couldn't possibly be wrong. I use an error correcting modem! signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] emerge --newuse misses package that new USE affects
On 11/25/05, Holly Bostick [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The idea of having the temporary setting invisibly add a permanent setting seems cool, but undermines both the function of the temporary setting (since it's no longer truly temporary), and the function of the permanent setting (since you have not explicitly made the setting, you may or may not want it set), and what about dependencies? Yes, I think the dependancy issue alone makes this an unworkable idea. There is a big difference between ACCEPT_KEYWORDS=~x86 emerge pkg and echo pkg ~x86 /etc/portage/package.keywords emerge pkg This is because the first will allow ~x86 for pkg and all of its dependancies, while the second only allows ~x86 for pkg (you would have to add additional entries for masked dependancies). IMO, the ACCEPT_KEYWORDS environment variable should only be used in combination with --pretend, where it can be used to give a list of the packages that you (might) need to add to package.keywords. Besides, Portage is designed to explicity allow environment variables to override configuration file settings, whether that be /etc/make.conf or /etc/portage/*. Modifying any configuration files based on environment variables would do away with the entire point of supporting the environment variables to begin with. -Richard -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
[gentoo-user] emerge --newuse misses package that new USE affects
I've googled and scanned recent messages archive of this list for this issue - if I'm blind, apologies in advance. I've changed some USE flags deliberately to add features to a package (in this case, apache). That package is also impacted by different ACCEPT_KEYWORDS flag (~86), which I've specified in /etc/portage/package.keywords Despite the USE change, I find that that apache is not being caught by emerge --newuse world. My expectation is that --newuse world will rebuild everything that a new USE impacts. So do I horribly misunderstand --newuse, or have I configured something wrong, or does it not work with package.keywords, or is there a bug someone would like more data on before I manually rebuild the various packages in in my system that need it and blow the symptoms away? I added threads nptlonly mpm-worker to USE in make.conf. I've probably made some other changes to USE since my last world rebuild. I've also done an emerge --sync. Then: snip # emerge --update --deep --newuse --pretend --verbose world These are the packages that I would merge, in order: Calculating world dependencies ...done! [ebuild R ] sys-libs/ncurses-5.4-r6 -bootstrap -build -debug -doc -gpm* -minimal -nocxx -unicode 0 kB [ebuild U ] sys-devel/gcc-config-1.3.12-r4 [1.3.12-r3] 0 kB [ebuild U ] sys-devel/binutils-config-1.8-r6 [1.8-r5] 0 kB [ebuild U ] sys-devel/binutils-2.16.1 [2.15.92.0.2-r10] -multislot -multitarget +nls -test 12,392 kB [ebuild R ] sys-devel/gcc-3.3.6 (-altivec) -bootstrap -boundschecking -build -fortran* -gcj -gtk +hardened -ip28 -mudflap (-multilib) -multislot (-n32) (-n64) +nls -nocxx -nopie -nossp -objc -objc-gc -vanilla 0 kB [ebuild R ] sys-libs/glibc-2.3.5-r2 -build -erandom -glibc-compat20 -glibc-omitfp +hardened -linuxthreads-tls (-multilib) +nls +nptl +nptlonly* +pic -profile (-selinux) +userlocales 0 kB [ebuild U ] sys-apps/man-pages-2.13 [2.11] +nls 1,670 kB [ebuild R ] sys-apps/grep-2.5.1-r8 -build +nls +pcre* -static 0 kB [ebuild R ] dev-lang/python-2.4.2 -X +berkdb -bootstrap -build -doc +gdbm -ipv6* +ncurses -nocxx +readline +ssl -tcltk -ucs2 0 kB [ebuild R ] sys-libs/db-4.2.52_p2 -bootstrap -doc +java* -nocxx -tcltk 0 kB [ebuild R ] sys-apps/tcp-wrappers-7.6-r8 -ipv6* 0 kB [ebuild R ] app-editors/nano-1.3.7 -build -debug -justify +ncurses +nls -nomac -slang -spell* -unicode 0 kB [ebuild R ] net-misc/wget-1.10.2 -build -debug -ipv6* +nls -socks5 +ssl -static 0 kB [ebuild R ] net-dns/bind-9.2.5-r6 +berkdb -bind-mysql -dlz -doc +idn* -ipv6 +ldap +mysql -odbc -postgres (-selinux) +ssl +threads* 0 kB [ebuild R ] net-misc/openssh-4.2_p1 -X509 -chroot -hpn -ipv6* -kerberos +ldap* -libedit +pam (-selinux) -sftplogging -skey -smartcard -static +tcpd 58 kB [ebuild U ] app-crypt/hashalot-0.3-r1 [0.3] 0 kB [ebuild R ] dev-java/commons-pool-1.2 -doc -jikes +junit* 0 kB [ebuild R ] dev-java/commons-net-1.3.0-r1 -doc -examples -jikes +junit* -source 0 kB [ebuild R ] dev-java/commons-digester-1.6-r1 -doc -jikes +junit* -source 0 kB [ebuild R ] dev-php/php-4.4.0-r4 -X +berkdb +crypt +curl* -debug -doc -fdftk -firebird -flash -freetds -gd -gd-external +gdbm +gmp* -hardenedphp +imap -informix -ipv6 +java -jpeg -kerberos +ldap -mcal -memlimit -mssql +mysql +ncurses +nls -oci8 -odbc +pam -png -postgres +readline -snmp -spell +ssl -tiff -truetype +xml2 -yaz 0 kB [ebuild R ] app-editors/vim-6.4 -acl -bash-completion -cscope -gpm* -minimal +nls +perl +python -ruby -vim-with-x 0 kB [ebuild R ] net-misc/iputils-021109-r3 -doc -ipv6* -static 0 kB Total size of downloads: 14,122 kB /snip note the lack of apache. Now: snip # emerge --pretend --verbose apache These are the packages that I would merge, in order: Calculating dependencies ...done! [ebuild R ] net-www/apache-2.0.55 +apache2 -debug -doc +ldap -mpm-leader -mpm-peruser -mpm-prefork -mpm-threadpool +mpm-worker* -no-suexec (-selinux) +ssl -static-modules +threads* 0 kB Total size of downloads: 0 kB /snip As you see, apache is already installed. By the '*'s, emerge seems to have noted the USE change. also snip # equery uses apache [ Searching for packages matching apache... ] [ Colour Code : set unset ] [ Legend: Left column (U) - USE flags from make.conf ] [ : Right column (I) - USE flags packages was installed with ] [ Found these USE variables for net-www/apache-2.0.55 ] U I + + apache2: Chooses Apache2 support when a package supports both Apache1 and Apache2 - - debug : Tells configure and the makefiles to build for debugging. Effects vary across packages, but generally it will at least add -g to CFLAGS. Remember to set FEATURES=nostrip too - - doc: Adds extra documentation (API, Javadoc, etc) + + ldap : Adds LDAP support (Lightweight Directory Access Protocol) - - mpm-leader : unknown - - mpm-peruser: unknown - - mpm-prefork: unknown - -
Re: [gentoo-user] emerge --newuse misses package that new USE affects
glen martin schreef: snip I've changed some USE flags deliberately to add features to a package snip Despite the USE change, I find that that apache is not being caught by emerge --newuse world. snip I added threads nptlonly mpm-worker to USE in make.conf. I've probably made some other changes to USE since my last world rebuild. I've also done an emerge --sync. Then: snip of all the proof that the assessment is correct So, any thoughts on why emerge --newuse doesn't want to rebuild apache? Well, assuming it's not a bug (what version of Portage are you using?) then is it possible that apache is neither in your world file, nor a dependency of something that is (does it show up in the list of a depclean -p)? That's the only reason I can think of that the combination of --update and --deep wouldn't recognize that apache is one of the packages that should be considered for --newuse. HTH, Holly -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] emerge --newuse misses package that new USE affects
On Thursday 24 November 2005 15:52, glen martin wrote: I've googled and scanned recent messages archive of this list for this issue - if I'm blind, apologies in advance. I've changed some USE flags deliberately to add features to a package (in this case, apache). That package is also impacted by different ACCEPT_KEYWORDS flag (~86), which I've specified in /etc/portage/package.keywords Despite the USE change, I find that that apache is not being caught by emerge --newuse world. My expectation is that --newuse world will rebuild everything that a new USE impacts. So do I horribly misunderstand --newuse, or have I configured something wrong, or does it not work with package.keywords, or is there a bug someone would like more data on before I manually rebuild the various packages in in my system that need it and blow the symptoms away? I added threads nptlonly mpm-worker to USE in make.conf. I've probably made some other changes to USE since my last world rebuild. I've also done an emerge --sync. Then: snip # emerge --update --deep --newuse --pretend --verbose world If you Put the USE Flag into the make.conf it´s Generall to ALL Packages. Just Put the Use Flag into the Apache Buil only. -- MFG Christian Fuß, replica-solutions.de ( Linux, Poetry, Community 4 everyone, International German/English ) -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] emerge --newuse misses package that new USE affects
glen martin wrote: note the lack of apache. Now: snip # emerge --pretend --verbose apache These are the packages that I would merge, in order: Calculating dependencies ...done! [ebuild R ] net-www/apache-2.0.55 +apache2 -debug -doc +ldap -mpm-leader -mpm-peruser -mpm-prefork -mpm-threadpool +mpm-worker* -no-suexec (-selinux) +ssl -static-modules +threads* 0 kB Total size of downloads: 0 kB Maybe you need apache2 instead of apache USE flag? Your understanding of --newuse matches mine. I did notice a similiar problem this past week. I changed -ffmpeg to ffmpeg. Ran emerge -uDNav and only kb3 was found. The next day, emerge -uDNav found xine-lib. So I too am questioning whether --newuse is working properly in Portage 2.0.51.22-r3. HTH, Roy -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] emerge --newuse misses package that new USE affects
Holly Bostick wrote: So, any thoughts on why emerge --newuse doesn't want to rebuild apache? Well, assuming it's not a bug (what version of Portage are you using?) then is it possible that apache is neither in your world file, I'm on portage 2.0.51.22-r3. This is a very new system - as part of the install sequence portage was of course updated, so it was some earlier portage version a week ago. Seems a truism, but you're right. apache isn't in my world file. somehow. And adding it to my world file does work around the symptom I describe. This begs the question of why it isn't there, considering it is installed. I must wonder, what else that I've installed has somehow not been added to the world file. Perhaps I'm exposing my ignorance, but is the world file not supposed to have everything that is installed and not in the base system definition? Under what circumstances (other than failed/aborted emerge, which didn't happen) could something fail to go into world? Thanks, glen -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] emerge --newuse misses package that new USE affects
On Thu, Nov 24, 2005 at 11:01:43AM -0800, glen martin wrote: Seems a truism, but you're right. apache isn't in my world file. somehow. And adding it to my world file does work around the symptom I describe. This begs the question of why it isn't there, considering it is installed. I must wonder, what else that I've installed has somehow not been added to the world file. Perhaps I'm exposing my ignorance, but is the world file not supposed to have everything that is installed and not in the base system definition? Under what circumstances (other than failed/aborted emerge, which didn't happen) could something fail to go into world? simple. Maybe you installed apache with 'emerge --oneshot' which doesn't modify the world file. Maybe apache was installed as a dependency of something else, and that something else has since got removed. W -- I cannot go to school today Said little Peggy Ann McKay. I have the measles and the mumps, A gash, a rash and purple bumps. My mouth is wet, my throat is dry. I'm going blind in my right eye. My tonsils are as big as rocks, I've counted sixteen chicken pox And there's one more-that's seventeen, And don't you think my face looks green? My leg is cut, my eyes are blue It might be instamatic flu. I cough and sneeze and gasp and choke, I'm sure that my left leg is broke My hip hurts when I move my chin, My belly button's caving in, My back is wrenched, my ankle's sprained, My 'pendix pains each time it rains. My toes is cold, my toes are numb, I have a sliver in my thumb. My neck is stiff, my voice is weak, I hardly whisper when I speak. My tongue is filling up my mouth, I think my hair is falling out. My elbow's bent, my spine ain't straight, My temperature is one-o-eight. My brain is shrunk, I cannot hear, There's a hole inside my ear. I have a hangnail, and my heart is - What? What's that? What's that you say? You say today is ...Saturday? Goodbye, I'm going out to play! Sortir en Pantoufles: up 12 days, 11:30 -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] emerge --newuse misses package that new USE affects
On Thu, 24 Nov 2005 11:01:43 -0800, glen martin wrote: This begs the question of why it isn't there, considering it is installed. I must wonder, what else that I've installed has somehow not been added to the world file. Perhaps I'm exposing my ignorance, but is the world file not supposed to have everything that is installed and not in the base system definition? The world file contains everything that you installed directly. Dependencies of packages you install are not included in world. If you installed a package that depended on Apache, Apache would have been installed but not added to world. If you subsequently removed the original package, or changed your USE flags so that it no longer required Apache, then Apache would no longer be a dependency of anything in world. In that case, emerge --ask depclean would offer to remove it. -- Neil Bothwick And all the Borg left was this copy of System 7... signature.asc Description: PGP signature
