Re: [gentoo-user] stage3 only for i486?
Stroller, i didn't knew what a chroot was back then either, but i've found in gentoo a vdery good teacher. If you are willing to learn, with gentoo you can go as deeper as you want and learn a lot. Most of the linux knowledge i have i owe it to gentoo. As far as i understand know, chroot is pretty much a cage. you confine the system in a smaller folder structure and from the inside, you cannot access the outside (while it's true the opposite). it's particularly handy to cage a webserver for instance, so if someone hacks it, they don't see the entire system, but only the portion you chrooted. when installing gentoo, you chroot into the smaller gentoo system, contiained into the booting distro, be it a livecd or another distro. D Il giorno 04/apr/2013 05:07, Stroller strol...@stellar.eclipse.co.uk ha scritto: On 3 April 2013, at 20:36, Alan McKinnon wrote: ... The reason I say Gentoo shouldn't worry about installers is that the typical person installing Gentoo already knows about chroots. Someone who doesn't is unlikely to consider Gentoo at all It's been a while, but I don't think I knew what a chroot was when I installed Gentoo. I can't say that I have a great understanding of chrooting today, or that I've ever used it for anything but installing Gentoo. Stroller.
Re: [gentoo-user] stage3 only for i486?
On 03/04/2013 01:41, Daniel Frey wrote: On 04/02/2013 12:17 PM, Alan McKinnon wrote: Oh, and gentoo is fast is a nono swear word these days. That's ricing :-) Nowadays we say the benefit of gentoo is USE so you get what *you* want :-) When I'm asked, I say that gentoo is extremely flexible and can be tailored in almost infinite ways depending on its application. It's why I'm still using it on the desktop, maintenance time be damned. I've tried other distros and always come back to gentoo. The lack of flexibility with other package managers (or lack of being able to replace the default package manager) on other distros is very disappointing. Guess I've been spoiled too much... You and me both :-) To this day on the servers at work I *still* reach to USE=-avahi -zeroconf -mdns -ldap -gnutls nls -other-bundled-crap and then I remember oh wait, this is centos. Spoiled by Gentoo? Yes, indeed, most definitely. -- Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com
Re: [gentoo-user] stage3 only for i486?
On Wednesday 03 April 2013 08:59:51 Alan McKinnon wrote: To this day on the servers at work I *still* reach to USE=-avahi -zeroconf -mdns -ldap -gnutls nls -other-bundled-crap Seeing -gnutls in there prompted me to go and find out why I have it on this box. Turns out that phonon requires it, indirectly, and is itself pulled in by several core components of KDE and QT. So no doing without it hereabouts. -- Peter
Re: [gentoo-user] stage3 only for i486?
On 03/04/2013 17:37, Peter Humphrey wrote: On Wednesday 03 April 2013 08:59:51 Alan McKinnon wrote: To this day on the servers at work I *still* reach to USE=-avahi -zeroconf -mdns -ldap -gnutls nls -other-bundled-crap Seeing -gnutls in there prompted me to go and find out why I have it on this box. Turns out that phonon requires it, indirectly, and is itself pulled in by several core components of KDE and QT. So no doing without it hereabouts. :-) that's not my really real USE - it's just a bunch of flags I whipped up to illustrate. Many people would want to disable some of those, it was an easy way to show that Gentoo lets your tweak what support you want as opposed to Centos which does not -- Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com
Re: [gentoo-user] stage3 only for i486?
On 3 April 2013, at 20:36, Alan McKinnon wrote: ... The reason I say Gentoo shouldn't worry about installers is that the typical person installing Gentoo already knows about chroots. Someone who doesn't is unlikely to consider Gentoo at all It's been a while, but I don't think I knew what a chroot was when I installed Gentoo. I can't say that I have a great understanding of chrooting today, or that I've ever used it for anything but installing Gentoo. Stroller.
[gentoo-user] stage3 only for i486?
Hi all gentoo people! I've been away from gentoo for a while, and I'm in the process of reinstalling it today. While downloading the stage 3 I noticed that only an i486 version is available. As far as I remember, gentoo was best known, back in the days, for being fast, as it was one of the first distro to support i686... am i wrong with this? if not, why only i486 today? apart from the reasons behind the decision of shipping only an i486 stage 3, do you think it's worth the pain to recompile everything (like the old stage1) for a different arch? i have an intel i5 processor. regards Davide
Re: [gentoo-user] stage3 only for i486?
Am 02.04.2013 19:51, schrieb Davide Carnovale: Hi all gentoo people! I've been away from gentoo for a while, and I'm in the process of reinstalling it today. While downloading the stage 3 I noticed that only an i486 version is available. As far as I remember, gentoo was best known, back in the days, for being fast, as it was one of the first distro to support i686... am i wrong with this? if not, why only i486 today? apart from the reasons behind the decision of shipping only an i486 stage 3, do you think it's worth the pain to recompile everything (like the old stage1) for a different arch? i have an intel i5 processor. If you're not low on system memory (less then 2GB) you really should go the the amd64 stage.
Re: [gentoo-user] stage3 only for i486?
On Tue, Apr 02, 2013 at 07:51:17PM +0200, Davide Carnovale wrote: Hi all gentoo people! I've been away from gentoo for a while, and I'm in the process of reinstalling it today. While downloading the stage 3 I noticed that only an i486 version is available. As far as I remember, gentoo was best known, back in the days, for being fast, as it was one of the first distro to support i686... am i wrong with this? if not, why only i486 today? apart from the reasons behind the decision of shipping only an i486 stage 3, do you think it's worth the pain to recompile everything (like the old stage1) for a different arch? i have an intel i5 processor. regards Davide Hi Davide, The directories I checked read: http://gentoo.osuosl.org/releases/x86/autobuilds/current-stage3-i686/ but the tarball states it's hardened: http://gentoo.osuosl.org/releases/x86/autobuilds/current-stage3-i686/stage3-i686-hardened-20130326.tar.bz2 Haven't personally used a x86 in years. -- Happy Penguin Computers ') 126 Fenco Drive ( \ Tupelo, MS 38801 ^^ supp...@happypenguincomputers.com 662-269-2706 662-205-6424 http://happypenguincomputers.com/ A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail? Don't top-post: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Top_post#Top-posting
Re: [gentoo-user] stage3 only for i486?
Michael, thanks, i know amd64 would be better, i used to had a multilib system, but for now i have a problem with java and 64-bit so i'm stuck on the 32-bit world for now =) Bruce, i see that, it looks like it's hardened indeed, i'll see what being hardened means and if it fits me, thank you. anyways i'd expect to also have a non hardened i686 stage 3... having a better look at things i can see this: http://gentoo.osuosl.org/releases/x86/autobuilds/20130305/default/20130305/ which has an i686 stage 3. i wonder what changed recently... i guess i'll go with it for now and just update it... D 2013/4/2 Bruce Hill da...@happypenguincomputers.com: On Tue, Apr 02, 2013 at 07:51:17PM +0200, Davide Carnovale wrote: Hi all gentoo people! I've been away from gentoo for a while, and I'm in the process of reinstalling it today. While downloading the stage 3 I noticed that only an i486 version is available. As far as I remember, gentoo was best known, back in the days, for being fast, as it was one of the first distro to support i686... am i wrong with this? if not, why only i486 today? apart from the reasons behind the decision of shipping only an i486 stage 3, do you think it's worth the pain to recompile everything (like the old stage1) for a different arch? i have an intel i5 processor. regards Davide Hi Davide, The directories I checked read: http://gentoo.osuosl.org/releases/x86/autobuilds/current-stage3-i686/ but the tarball states it's hardened: http://gentoo.osuosl.org/releases/x86/autobuilds/current-stage3-i686/stage3-i686-hardened-20130326.tar.bz2 Haven't personally used a x86 in years. -- Happy Penguin Computers ') 126 Fenco Drive ( \ Tupelo, MS 38801 ^^ supp...@happypenguincomputers.com 662-269-2706 662-205-6424 http://happypenguincomputers.com/ A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail? Don't top-post: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Top_post#Top-posting
Re: [gentoo-user] stage3 only for i486?
On 02/04/2013 19:51, Davide Carnovale wrote: Hi all gentoo people! I've been away from gentoo for a while, and I'm in the process of reinstalling it today. While downloading the stage 3 I noticed that only an i486 version is available. As far as I remember, gentoo was best known, back in the days, for being fast, as it was one of the first distro to support i686... am i wrong with this? if not, why only i486 today? apart from the reasons behind the decision of shipping only an i486 stage 3, do you think it's worth the pain to recompile everything (like the old stage1) for a different arch? i have an intel i5 processor. You have been gone a while :-) These days we don't do the whole stage 1/2/3 thing while rebuilding the whole lot multiple times. Nowadays we just unpack a suitable stage 3 into a chroot, tweak CFLAGS, emerge -e world, then emerge all the packages you use. The stage3 tarballs are normally quite out of date so you will rebuild the whole lot anyway asap. If your workstation is also your buildhost, the bests start for CFLAGS with a reasonably recent gcc is CFLAGS=-march=native -O2 -pipe and CHOST, as always, is something you should not be touching at all. IOW, as long as you start with the desired ABI (32 vs 64 bit) your first update is going to optimize and fix things anyway. So don't wprry about it. Oh, and gentoo is fast is a nono swear word these days. That's ricing :-) Nowadays we say the benefit of gentoo is USE so you get what *you* want :-) -- Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com
Re: [gentoo-user] stage3 only for i486?
Ahaha thanks Alan, very explanatory and funny email! I won't say gentoo is fast anymore, I promise. :-) As for the rest i'll just keep the i486 base and start from there since I already compiled the kernel and stuff... Thanks all D Il giorno 02/apr/2013 21:18, Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com ha scritto: On 02/04/2013 19:51, Davide Carnovale wrote: Hi all gentoo people! I've been away from gentoo for a while, and I'm in the process of reinstalling it today. While downloading the stage 3 I noticed that only an i486 version is available. As far as I remember, gentoo was best known, back in the days, for being fast, as it was one of the first distro to support i686... am i wrong with this? if not, why only i486 today? apart from the reasons behind the decision of shipping only an i486 stage 3, do you think it's worth the pain to recompile everything (like the old stage1) for a different arch? i have an intel i5 processor. You have been gone a while :-) These days we don't do the whole stage 1/2/3 thing while rebuilding the whole lot multiple times. Nowadays we just unpack a suitable stage 3 into a chroot, tweak CFLAGS, emerge -e world, then emerge all the packages you use. The stage3 tarballs are normally quite out of date so you will rebuild the whole lot anyway asap. If your workstation is also your buildhost, the bests start for CFLAGS with a reasonably recent gcc is CFLAGS=-march=native -O2 -pipe and CHOST, as always, is something you should not be touching at all. IOW, as long as you start with the desired ABI (32 vs 64 bit) your first update is going to optimize and fix things anyway. So don't wprry about it. Oh, and gentoo is fast is a nono swear word these days. That's ricing :-) Nowadays we say the benefit of gentoo is USE so you get what *you* want :-) -- Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com
Re: [gentoo-user] stage3 only for i486?
:-) While we're on the welcome stage, you should be introduced to some of the regulars around here: I'm the snarky old git with the weird sense of humour that often morphs into biting sarcasm. Neil Bothwick is the eccentric English gent who can get across a whole paragraph in two words. He also has a crystal ball in his fortune sig. Dale is the best User Acceptance Tester in the whole universe. Dale finds bugs that cannot possibly exist (the ones who's very existence violates Quantum Mechanics). Anf yet, he finds them. Volker is the voice of unreasonable reason. If you say something stupid, he will let you know. He is usually right. Bruce is the voice of reasonable reason, he must have picked it up in China those 10 years he was there. He too is usually right. Michael Mol is our resident expert on correctness, who will gladly explain at length how any workaround you ever dream up is an abomination and should not be suffered to live. In a strange quirk of reality, he too is usually right. Canek has found a voice as the Gnome3/systemd/udev evangelist. Take any new piece of software that irks us old farts, and Canek is sure to run it, find it to be good, and tell you all about it. James is our embedded guy. No-one knows exactly what James does, but it involves teeny weeny systems with less RAM than your wristwatch, and somehow Gentoo runs on it. I think it's $MAGIC, he will say it is $SCIENCE, I won't argue. Grant is our entrepeneur, forever tweaking code to do stuff that none of us comprehend. Grant speaks a foreign language, I believe it is called Business. The rest of us speak a different language called Technical. And yet somehow we communicate. It's weird. Mark is the money guy, he does trades. On Gentoo. All trading software is Windows only, so Mark learned $MAGIC. He hasn't been around for a while, maybe he'll see this and say hello wave There are many more regulars. Those are just the few I know well enough to mention them without getting ripped a new one :-) Cheers, On 02/04/2013 21:40, Davide Carnovale wrote: Ahaha thanks Alan, very explanatory and funny email! I won't say gentoo is fast anymore, I promise. :-) As for the rest i'll just keep the i486 base and start from there since I already compiled the kernel and stuff... Thanks all D Il giorno 02/apr/2013 21:18, Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com mailto:alan.mckin...@gmail.com ha scritto: On 02/04/2013 19:51, Davide Carnovale wrote: Hi all gentoo people! I've been away from gentoo for a while, and I'm in the process of reinstalling it today. While downloading the stage 3 I noticed that only an i486 version is available. As far as I remember, gentoo was best known, back in the days, for being fast, as it was one of the first distro to support i686... am i wrong with this? if not, why only i486 today? apart from the reasons behind the decision of shipping only an i486 stage 3, do you think it's worth the pain to recompile everything (like the old stage1) for a different arch? i have an intel i5 processor. You have been gone a while :-) These days we don't do the whole stage 1/2/3 thing while rebuilding the whole lot multiple times. Nowadays we just unpack a suitable stage 3 into a chroot, tweak CFLAGS, emerge -e world, then emerge all the packages you use. The stage3 tarballs are normally quite out of date so you will rebuild the whole lot anyway asap. If your workstation is also your buildhost, the bests start for CFLAGS with a reasonably recent gcc is CFLAGS=-march=native -O2 -pipe and CHOST, as always, is something you should not be touching at all. IOW, as long as you start with the desired ABI (32 vs 64 bit) your first update is going to optimize and fix things anyway. So don't wprry about it. Oh, and gentoo is fast is a nono swear word these days. That's ricing :-) Nowadays we say the benefit of gentoo is USE so you get what *you* want :-) -- Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com mailto:alan.mckin...@gmail.com -- Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com
Re: [gentoo-user] stage3 only for i486?
On Tuesday 02 April 2013 19:51:17 Davide Carnovale wrote: Hi all gentoo people! I've been away from gentoo for a while, and I'm in the process of reinstalling it today. While downloading the stage 3 I noticed that only an i486 version is available. As far as I remember, gentoo was best known, back in the days, for being fast, as it was one of the first distro to support i686... am i wrong with this? if not, why only i486 today? apart from the reasons behind the decision of shipping only an i486 stage 3, do you think it's worth the pain to recompile everything (like the old stage1) for a different arch? i have an intel i5 processor. regards Davide Your bookmarks are very very old ;) The stage3 is available for almost every supported arch, see for example: http://distfiles.gentoo.org/releases/alpha/autobuilds/current-stage3/ http://distfiles.gentoo.org/releases/amd64/autobuilds/current-stage3/ those above are two links taken from: http://www.gentoo.org/main/it/where.xml HTH. Ciao Francesco
Re: [gentoo-user] stage3 only for i486?
Alan, thanks a lot for the cool description of you guys, I hope i'll get to know you all :-) Francesco, thank you, but you linked alpha and amd64, and i can't see any recent one for x86 D Il giorno 02/apr/2013 23:01, Francesco Talamona francesco.talam...@know.eu ha scritto: On Tuesday 02 April 2013 19:51:17 Davide Carnovale wrote: Hi all gentoo people! I've been away from gentoo for a while, and I'm in the process of reinstalling it today. While downloading the stage 3 I noticed that only an i486 version is available. As far as I remember, gentoo was best known, back in the days, for being fast, as it was one of the first distro to support i686... am i wrong with this? if not, why only i486 today? apart from the reasons behind the decision of shipping only an i486 stage 3, do you think it's worth the pain to recompile everything (like the old stage1) for a different arch? i have an intel i5 processor. regards Davide Your bookmarks are very very old ;) The stage3 is available for almost every supported arch, see for example: http://distfiles.gentoo.org/releases/alpha/autobuilds/current-stage3/ http://distfiles.gentoo.org/releases/amd64/autobuilds/current-stage3/ those above are two links taken from: http://www.gentoo.org/main/it/where.xml HTH. Ciao Francesco
Re: [gentoo-user] stage3 only for i486?
On 04/02/2013 12:17 PM, Alan McKinnon wrote: Oh, and gentoo is fast is a nono swear word these days. That's ricing :-) Nowadays we say the benefit of gentoo is USE so you get what *you* want :-) When I'm asked, I say that gentoo is extremely flexible and can be tailored in almost infinite ways depending on its application. It's why I'm still using it on the desktop, maintenance time be damned. I've tried other distros and always come back to gentoo. The lack of flexibility with other package managers (or lack of being able to replace the default package manager) on other distros is very disappointing. Guess I've been spoiled too much... Dan
Re: [gentoo-user] stage3 only for i486?
as for the i486 only thing, my guess is because the kernel dropped support for 386 when 3.8 came out On Tue, Apr 2, 2013 at 4:41 PM, Daniel Frey djqf...@gmail.com wrote: On 04/02/2013 12:17 PM, Alan McKinnon wrote: Oh, and gentoo is fast is a nono swear word these days. That's ricing :-) Nowadays we say the benefit of gentoo is USE so you get what *you* want :-) When I'm asked, I say that gentoo is extremely flexible and can be tailored in almost infinite ways depending on its application. It's why I'm still using it on the desktop, maintenance time be damned. I've tried other distros and always come back to gentoo. The lack of flexibility with other package managers (or lack of being able to replace the default package manager) on other distros is very disappointing. Guess I've been spoiled too much... Dan
