Re: [gentoo-user] No mailer for Gentoo???
On Friday 06 September 2013 11:21:33 Canek Peláez Valdés wrote: From the commit log: Per extensive discussion with zmedico about removing the need for package.provided, several packages have been changed, like sudo, to not explicitly require an mta. Cron will follow, leaving mta support optional. Unrelated question: what happened (or going to happen) to packaged.provided? I'm using it.
Re: [gentoo-user] No mailer for Gentoo???
Am Sat, 07 Sep 2013 11:08:16 +0400 schrieb Pavel Volkov negai...@gmail.com: On Friday 06 September 2013 11:21:33 Canek Peláez Valdés wrote: From the commit log: Per extensive discussion with zmedico about removing the need for package.provided, several packages have been changed, like sudo, to not explicitly require an mta. Cron will follow, leaving mta support optional. Unrelated question: what happened (or going to happen) to packaged.provided? I'm using it. I suspect nothing. I interpreted that statement to mean that they wanted to remove the need for people *who don't want an MTA* to (ab)use package.provided as a way to avoid installing one. -- Marc Joliet -- People who think they know everything really annoy those of us who know we don't - Bjarne Stroustrup signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] No mailer for Gentoo???
On Sat, Sep 7, 2013 at 2:08 AM, Pavel Volkov negai...@gmail.com wrote: On Friday 06 September 2013 11:21:33 Canek Peláez Valdés wrote: From the commit log: Per extensive discussion with zmedico about removing the need for package.provided, several packages have been changed, like sudo, to not explicitly require an mta. Cron will follow, leaving mta support optional. Unrelated question: what happened (or going to happen) to packaged.provided? I'm using it. I think they mean that you would not need to use packaged.provided to get rid of an MTA. Regards -- Canek Peláez Valdés Posgrado en Ciencia e Ingeniería de la Computación Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México
Re: [gentoo-user] No mailer for Gentoo???
On 06-Sep-13 17:13, Michael Orlitzky wrote: On 09/06/2013 11:01 AM, Jarry wrote: after the last update I noticed that emerge --depclean removed virtual/mta, mail-mta/ssmtp und net-mail/mailbase. Does it mean mailer is no more part of system? I hope devs know what they are doing. I always thought every *nix system must have mailer. But now, there is not even /var/spool/mail on my Gentoo. That's strange... It wasn't part of @system before, you just removed the thing that pulled it in. No I did not. mail-mta/ssmtp was part of stage3. And I did not remove now any thing that pulled it in. All I did was emerge --ask --update --deep --newuse world. As a result, python-exec, python-argparse and libxml2 were reinstalled and automake-wrapper, gtk-doc-am, eselect and linux-header updated. Nothing else. After that I did emerge --depclean and the above mentioned packages were suddenly removed... Jarry -- ___ This mailbox accepts e-mails only from selected mailing-lists! Everything else is considered to be spam and therefore deleted.
Re: [gentoo-user] No mailer for Gentoo???
On 09/06/2013 11:23 AM, Jarry wrote: It wasn't part of @system before, you just removed the thing that pulled it in. No I did not. mail-mta/ssmtp was part of stage3. And I did not remove now any thing that pulled it in. All I did was emerge --ask --update --deep --newuse world. As a result, python-exec, python-argparse and libxml2 were reinstalled and automake-wrapper, gtk-doc-am, eselect and linux-header updated. Nothing else. After that I did emerge --depclean and the above mentioned packages were suddenly removed... It could be that a package's deps were updated to no longer include virtual/mta. But it was never part of @system, you can check for yourself: http://sources.gentoo.org/cgi-bin/viewvc.cgi/gentoo-x86/profiles/base/packages?view=log
Re: [gentoo-user] No mailer for Gentoo???
On 09/06/2013 11:01 AM, Jarry wrote: Hi Gentoo-users, after the last update I noticed that emerge --depclean removed virtual/mta, mail-mta/ssmtp und net-mail/mailbase. Does it mean mailer is no more part of system? I hope devs know what they are doing. I always thought every *nix system must have mailer. But now, there is not even /var/spool/mail on my Gentoo. That's strange... It wasn't part of @system before, you just removed the thing that pulled it in.
Re: [gentoo-user] No mailer for Gentoo???
On 06-Sep-13 18:14, Canek Peláez Valdés wrote: On Fri, Sep 6, 2013 at 10:51 AM, Jarry mr.ja...@gmail.com wrote: On 06-Sep-13 17:32, Michael Orlitzky wrote: On 09/06/2013 11:23 AM, Jarry wrote: It wasn't part of @system before, you just removed the thing that pulled it in. No I did not. mail-mta/ssmtp was part of stage3. And I did not remove now any thing that pulled it in. All I did was emerge --ask --update --deep --newuse world. As a result, python-exec, python-argparse and libxml2 were reinstalled and automake-wrapper, gtk-doc-am, eselect and linux-header updated. Nothing else. After that I did emerge --depclean and the above mentioned packages were suddenly removed... It could be that a package's deps were updated to no longer include virtual/mta. But it was never part of @system, you can check for yourself: http://sources.gentoo.org/cgi-bin/viewvc.cgi/gentoo-x86/profiles/base/packages?view=log Then something got broken because I have packages installed that need mailer (i.e. app-admin/monit or sys-fs/mdadm are configured to send emails). And these packages do not have mail use-flag, because their maintainers apparently expect standard *nix mailer (/usr/bin/sendmail) exists on the system... So now I have stable system, updated to the latest level, where a lot of things suddenly do not work. This should *never* happen! If it was some package's dep that caused it, it's clear this change was premature... I think is a bug in the packages. In my system the only package that pulls vitual/mta (and therefore ssmtp) is vixie-cron. That is strange. I have sys-process/vixie-cron-4.1-r12 and yet revdep-rebuild does not want to pull virtual/mta. But It should, as cron can be configured to send emails too. As I wrote: there are *many* packages that expect standard *nix mailer exists! If it does not, a lot of packages must be fixed to include mailer as dependency. Jarry -- ___ This mailbox accepts e-mails only from selected mailing-lists! Everything else is considered to be spam and therefore deleted.
Re: [gentoo-user] No mailer for Gentoo???
On Fri, Sep 6, 2013 at 11:14 AM, Canek Peláez Valdés can...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Sep 6, 2013 at 10:51 AM, Jarry mr.ja...@gmail.com wrote: On 06-Sep-13 17:32, Michael Orlitzky wrote: On 09/06/2013 11:23 AM, Jarry wrote: It wasn't part of @system before, you just removed the thing that pulled it in. No I did not. mail-mta/ssmtp was part of stage3. And I did not remove now any thing that pulled it in. All I did was emerge --ask --update --deep --newuse world. As a result, python-exec, python-argparse and libxml2 were reinstalled and automake-wrapper, gtk-doc-am, eselect and linux-header updated. Nothing else. After that I did emerge --depclean and the above mentioned packages were suddenly removed... It could be that a package's deps were updated to no longer include virtual/mta. But it was never part of @system, you can check for yourself: http://sources.gentoo.org/cgi-bin/viewvc.cgi/gentoo-x86/profiles/base/packages?view=log Then something got broken because I have packages installed that need mailer (i.e. app-admin/monit or sys-fs/mdadm are configured to send emails). And these packages do not have mail use-flag, because their maintainers apparently expect standard *nix mailer (/usr/bin/sendmail) exists on the system... So now I have stable system, updated to the latest level, where a lot of things suddenly do not work. This should *never* happen! If it was some package's dep that caused it, it's clear this change was premature... I think is a bug in the packages. In my system the only package that pulls vitual/mta (and therefore ssmtp) is vixie-cron. The change happened in the cron eclass: http://sources.gentoo.org/cgi-bin/viewvc.cgi/gentoo-x86/eclass/cron.eclass?r1=1.15r2=1.16 From the commit log: Per extensive discussion with zmedico about removing the need for package.provided, several packages have been changed, like sudo, to not explicitly require an mta. Cron will follow, leaving mta support optional. The rationale (I suppose) is that the programs in question still work, just the sending of emails fails. Good riddance, if you ask me. If you need/want an MTA, just install ssmtp by hand. Regards. -- Canek Peláez Valdés Posgrado en Ciencia e Ingeniería de la Computación Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México
Re: [gentoo-user] No mailer for Gentoo???
On Fri, Sep 6, 2013 at 11:22 AM, Jarry mr.ja...@gmail.com wrote: On 06-Sep-13 18:14, Canek Peláez Valdés wrote: On Fri, Sep 6, 2013 at 10:51 AM, Jarry mr.ja...@gmail.com wrote: On 06-Sep-13 17:32, Michael Orlitzky wrote: On 09/06/2013 11:23 AM, Jarry wrote: It wasn't part of @system before, you just removed the thing that pulled it in. No I did not. mail-mta/ssmtp was part of stage3. And I did not remove now any thing that pulled it in. All I did was emerge --ask --update --deep --newuse world. As a result, python-exec, python-argparse and libxml2 were reinstalled and automake-wrapper, gtk-doc-am, eselect and linux-header updated. Nothing else. After that I did emerge --depclean and the above mentioned packages were suddenly removed... It could be that a package's deps were updated to no longer include virtual/mta. But it was never part of @system, you can check for yourself: http://sources.gentoo.org/cgi-bin/viewvc.cgi/gentoo-x86/profiles/base/packages?view=log Then something got broken because I have packages installed that need mailer (i.e. app-admin/monit or sys-fs/mdadm are configured to send emails). And these packages do not have mail use-flag, because their maintainers apparently expect standard *nix mailer (/usr/bin/sendmail) exists on the system... So now I have stable system, updated to the latest level, where a lot of things suddenly do not work. This should *never* happen! If it was some package's dep that caused it, it's clear this change was premature... I think is a bug in the packages. In my system the only package that pulls vitual/mta (and therefore ssmtp) is vixie-cron. That is strange. I have sys-process/vixie-cron-4.1-r12 and yet revdep-rebuild does not want to pull virtual/mta. But It should, as cron can be configured to send emails too. Read my last mail; they changed the RDEPEND for the cron eclass. As I wrote: there are *many* packages that expect standard *nix mailer exists! If it does not, a lot of packages must be fixed to include mailer as dependency. The devs disagree. I think I'm with them; the packages in question actually work, it just happens that they can't send mails anymore. If you need/want them to send mails, install an MTA. Regards. -- Canek Peláez Valdés Posgrado en Ciencia e Ingeniería de la Computación Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México
Re: [gentoo-user] No mailer for Gentoo???
On Fri, Sep 6, 2013 at 10:51 AM, Jarry mr.ja...@gmail.com wrote: On 06-Sep-13 17:32, Michael Orlitzky wrote: On 09/06/2013 11:23 AM, Jarry wrote: It wasn't part of @system before, you just removed the thing that pulled it in. No I did not. mail-mta/ssmtp was part of stage3. And I did not remove now any thing that pulled it in. All I did was emerge --ask --update --deep --newuse world. As a result, python-exec, python-argparse and libxml2 were reinstalled and automake-wrapper, gtk-doc-am, eselect and linux-header updated. Nothing else. After that I did emerge --depclean and the above mentioned packages were suddenly removed... It could be that a package's deps were updated to no longer include virtual/mta. But it was never part of @system, you can check for yourself: http://sources.gentoo.org/cgi-bin/viewvc.cgi/gentoo-x86/profiles/base/packages?view=log Then something got broken because I have packages installed that need mailer (i.e. app-admin/monit or sys-fs/mdadm are configured to send emails). And these packages do not have mail use-flag, because their maintainers apparently expect standard *nix mailer (/usr/bin/sendmail) exists on the system... So now I have stable system, updated to the latest level, where a lot of things suddenly do not work. This should *never* happen! If it was some package's dep that caused it, it's clear this change was premature... I think is a bug in the packages. In my system the only package that pulls vitual/mta (and therefore ssmtp) is vixie-cron. Regards. -- Canek Peláez Valdés Posgrado en Ciencia e Ingeniería de la Computación Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México
Re: [gentoo-user] No mailer for Gentoo???
On 06-Sep-13 17:32, Michael Orlitzky wrote: On 09/06/2013 11:23 AM, Jarry wrote: It wasn't part of @system before, you just removed the thing that pulled it in. No I did not. mail-mta/ssmtp was part of stage3. And I did not remove now any thing that pulled it in. All I did was emerge --ask --update --deep --newuse world. As a result, python-exec, python-argparse and libxml2 were reinstalled and automake-wrapper, gtk-doc-am, eselect and linux-header updated. Nothing else. After that I did emerge --depclean and the above mentioned packages were suddenly removed... It could be that a package's deps were updated to no longer include virtual/mta. But it was never part of @system, you can check for yourself: http://sources.gentoo.org/cgi-bin/viewvc.cgi/gentoo-x86/profiles/base/packages?view=log Then something got broken because I have packages installed that need mailer (i.e. app-admin/monit or sys-fs/mdadm are configured to send emails). And these packages do not have mail use-flag, because their maintainers apparently expect standard *nix mailer (/usr/bin/sendmail) exists on the system... So now I have stable system, updated to the latest level, where a lot of things suddenly do not work. This should *never* happen! If it was some package's dep that caused it, it's clear this change was premature... Jarry -- ___ This mailbox accepts e-mails only from selected mailing-lists! Everything else is considered to be spam and therefore deleted.
Re: [gentoo-user] No mailer for Gentoo???
130906 Jarry wrote: after the last update I noticed that emerge --depclean removed virtual/mta, mail-mta/ssmtp und net-mail/mailbase. From my home-made list of installed pkgs I have : W 130420 mail-client/mutt-1.5.21-r12 [ USE ] W 120918 mail-filter/procmail-3.22-r10 120909 mail-mta/ssmtp-2.64-r2 [for procmail vixie-cron : USE ] W 130727 net-mail/fetchmail-6.3.26-r1 130120 net-mail/mailbase-1.1 [for vixie-cron ssmtp] 130216 virtual/mta-1 [for vixie-cron gnupg procmail] The use flags I used are : mail-client/mutt USE=smtp mail-mta/ssmtp USE=mta So you need to remerge procmail vixie-cron mutt or equivalents. -- ,, SUPPORT ___//___, Philip Webb ELECTRIC /] [] [] [] [] []| Cities Centre, University of Toronto TRANSIT`-O--O---' purslowatchassdotutorontodotca
Re: [gentoo-user] No mailer for Gentoo???
On 06-Sep-13 18:29, Canek Peláez Valdés wrote: On Fri, Sep 6, 2013 at 11:22 AM, Jarry mr.ja...@gmail.com wrote: On 06-Sep-13 18:14, Canek Peláez Valdés wrote: On Fri, Sep 6, 2013 at 10:51 AM, Jarry mr.ja...@gmail.com wrote: On 06-Sep-13 17:32, Michael Orlitzky wrote: On 09/06/2013 11:23 AM, Jarry wrote: It wasn't part of @system before, you just removed the thing that pulled it in. No I did not. mail-mta/ssmtp was part of stage3. And I did not remove now any thing that pulled it in. All I did was emerge --ask --update --deep --newuse world. As a result, python-exec, python-argparse and libxml2 were reinstalled and automake-wrapper, gtk-doc-am, eselect and linux-header updated. Nothing else. After that I did emerge --depclean and the above mentioned packages were suddenly removed... It could be that a package's deps were updated to no longer include virtual/mta. But it was never part of @system, you can check for yourself: http://sources.gentoo.org/cgi-bin/viewvc.cgi/gentoo-x86/profiles/base/packages?view=log Then something got broken because I have packages installed that need mailer (i.e. app-admin/monit or sys-fs/mdadm are configured to send emails). And these packages do not have mail use-flag, because their maintainers apparently expect standard *nix mailer (/usr/bin/sendmail) exists on the system... So now I have stable system, updated to the latest level, where a lot of things suddenly do not work. This should *never* happen! If it was some package's dep that caused it, it's clear this change was premature... I think is a bug in the packages. In my system the only package that pulls vitual/mta (and therefore ssmtp) is vixie-cron. That is strange. I have sys-process/vixie-cron-4.1-r12 and yet revdep-rebuild does not want to pull virtual/mta. But It should, as cron can be configured to send emails too. Read my last mail; they changed the RDEPEND for the cron eclass. As I wrote: there are *many* packages that expect standard *nix mailer exists! If it does not, a lot of packages must be fixed to include mailer as dependency. The devs disagree. I think I'm with them; the packages in question actually work, it just happens that they can't send mails anymore. If you need/want them to send mails, install an MTA. Just can't send mails. So if mdadm detects failed drive in raid1 and I do not get mail about it, I will discover it at least when the 2nd drive fails. That's a relief... Why is there no global use-variable mta? Why not even local for packages that might use mailer? This goes completely against Gentoo-principles, if user has to search which other packages are required and install them manually. Is it not what we have use-flags for? Jarry -- ___ This mailbox accepts e-mails only from selected mailing-lists! Everything else is considered to be spam and therefore deleted.
Re: [gentoo-user] No mailer for Gentoo???
On 06/09/2013 18:45, Jarry wrote: On 06-Sep-13 18:29, Canek Peláez Valdés wrote: On Fri, Sep 6, 2013 at 11:22 AM, Jarry mr.ja...@gmail.com wrote: On 06-Sep-13 18:14, Canek Peláez Valdés wrote: On Fri, Sep 6, 2013 at 10:51 AM, Jarry mr.ja...@gmail.com wrote: On 06-Sep-13 17:32, Michael Orlitzky wrote: On 09/06/2013 11:23 AM, Jarry wrote: It wasn't part of @system before, you just removed the thing that pulled it in. No I did not. mail-mta/ssmtp was part of stage3. And I did not remove now any thing that pulled it in. All I did was emerge --ask --update --deep --newuse world. As a result, python-exec, python-argparse and libxml2 were reinstalled and automake-wrapper, gtk-doc-am, eselect and linux-header updated. Nothing else. After that I did emerge --depclean and the above mentioned packages were suddenly removed... It could be that a package's deps were updated to no longer include virtual/mta. But it was never part of @system, you can check for yourself: http://sources.gentoo.org/cgi-bin/viewvc.cgi/gentoo-x86/profiles/base/packages?view=log Then something got broken because I have packages installed that need mailer (i.e. app-admin/monit or sys-fs/mdadm are configured to send emails). And these packages do not have mail use-flag, because their maintainers apparently expect standard *nix mailer (/usr/bin/sendmail) exists on the system... So now I have stable system, updated to the latest level, where a lot of things suddenly do not work. This should *never* happen! If it was some package's dep that caused it, it's clear this change was premature... I think is a bug in the packages. In my system the only package that pulls vitual/mta (and therefore ssmtp) is vixie-cron. That is strange. I have sys-process/vixie-cron-4.1-r12 and yet revdep-rebuild does not want to pull virtual/mta. But It should, as cron can be configured to send emails too. Read my last mail; they changed the RDEPEND for the cron eclass. As I wrote: there are *many* packages that expect standard *nix mailer exists! If it does not, a lot of packages must be fixed to include mailer as dependency. The devs disagree. I think I'm with them; the packages in question actually work, it just happens that they can't send mails anymore. If you need/want them to send mails, install an MTA. Just can't send mails. So if mdadm detects failed drive in raid1 and I do not get mail about it, I will discover it at least when the 2nd drive fails. That's a relief... Why is there no global use-variable mta? Why not even local for packages that might use mailer? This goes completely against Gentoo-principles, if user has to search which other packages are required and install them manually. Is it not what we have use-flags for? Relax Jarry, take a chill-pill. It's Friday and weekend is almost here. Let me point out the mistakes you have made. You ran emerge --depclean blindly and let it do $WHATEVER. Or, you didn't read the output and notice it was about to nuke the mta. You assume and hope that you will always have a mailer. You didn't check if it really was in @system, or in the profile, or set by a USE flag. The mta just happened to be there, and you just assumed. Turns out it's there because the cron eclass just happened to think it was a good idea. It changed it's mind. cron is not part of @system either. You had to emerge it yourself, and that just happened to bring along an mta. If you wanted sendmail or postfix instead of ssmtp, you would have had to do that manually too. Just emerge the mta of your choice and put it in world. Then ask for the docs to be updated. Or, seeing as it's now a wiki, edit the docs yourself. -- Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com
Re: [gentoo-user] No mailer for Gentoo???
Am 06.09.2013 18:45, schrieb Jarry: On 06-Sep-13 18:29, Canek Peláez Valdés wrote: On Fri, Sep 6, 2013 at 11:22 AM, Jarry mr.ja...@gmail.com wrote: On 06-Sep-13 18:14, Canek Peláez Valdés wrote: On Fri, Sep 6, 2013 at 10:51 AM, Jarry mr.ja...@gmail.com wrote: On 06-Sep-13 17:32, Michael Orlitzky wrote: On 09/06/2013 11:23 AM, Jarry wrote: It wasn't part of @system before, you just removed the thing that pulled it in. No I did not. mail-mta/ssmtp was part of stage3. And I did not remove now any thing that pulled it in. All I did was emerge --ask --update --deep --newuse world. As a result, python-exec, python-argparse and libxml2 were reinstalled and automake-wrapper, gtk-doc-am, eselect and linux-header updated. Nothing else. After that I did emerge --depclean and the above mentioned packages were suddenly removed... It could be that a package's deps were updated to no longer include virtual/mta. But it was never part of @system, you can check for yourself: http://sources.gentoo.org/cgi-bin/viewvc.cgi/gentoo-x86/profiles/base/packages?view=log Then something got broken because I have packages installed that need mailer (i.e. app-admin/monit or sys-fs/mdadm are configured to send emails). And these packages do not have mail use-flag, because their maintainers apparently expect standard *nix mailer (/usr/bin/sendmail) exists on the system... So now I have stable system, updated to the latest level, where a lot of things suddenly do not work. This should *never* happen! If it was some package's dep that caused it, it's clear this change was premature... I think is a bug in the packages. In my system the only package that pulls vitual/mta (and therefore ssmtp) is vixie-cron. That is strange. I have sys-process/vixie-cron-4.1-r12 and yet revdep-rebuild does not want to pull virtual/mta. But It should, as cron can be configured to send emails too. Read my last mail; they changed the RDEPEND for the cron eclass. As I wrote: there are *many* packages that expect standard *nix mailer exists! If it does not, a lot of packages must be fixed to include mailer as dependency. The devs disagree. I think I'm with them; the packages in question actually work, it just happens that they can't send mails anymore. If you need/want them to send mails, install an MTA. Just can't send mails. So if mdadm detects failed drive in raid1 and I do not get mail about it, I will discover it at least when the 2nd drive fails. That's a relief... If you wan't to get mails from mdadm install an an MTA. Is that so hard to understand? signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [gentoo-user] No mailer for Gentoo???
On 06-Sep-13 18:56, Alan McKinnon wrote: On 06/09/2013 18:21, Canek Peláez Valdés wrote: On Fri, Sep 6, 2013 at 11:14 AM, Canek Peláez Valdés can...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Sep 6, 2013 at 10:51 AM, Jarry mr.ja...@gmail.com wrote: On 06-Sep-13 17:32, Michael Orlitzky wrote: On 09/06/2013 11:23 AM, Jarry wrote: It wasn't part of @system before, you just removed the thing that pulled it in. No I did not. mail-mta/ssmtp was part of stage3. And I did not remove now any thing that pulled it in. All I did was emerge --ask --update --deep --newuse world. As a result, python-exec, python-argparse and libxml2 were reinstalled and automake-wrapper, gtk-doc-am, eselect and linux-header updated. Nothing else. After that I did emerge --depclean and the above mentioned packages were suddenly removed... It could be that a package's deps were updated to no longer include virtual/mta. But it was never part of @system, you can check for yourself: http://sources.gentoo.org/cgi-bin/viewvc.cgi/gentoo-x86/profiles/base/packages?view=log Then something got broken because I have packages installed that need mailer (i.e. app-admin/monit or sys-fs/mdadm are configured to send emails). And these packages do not have mail use-flag, because their maintainers apparently expect standard *nix mailer (/usr/bin/sendmail) exists on the system... So now I have stable system, updated to the latest level, where a lot of things suddenly do not work. This should *never* happen! If it was some package's dep that caused it, it's clear this change was premature... I think is a bug in the packages. In my system the only package that pulls vitual/mta (and therefore ssmtp) is vixie-cron. The change happened in the cron eclass: http://sources.gentoo.org/cgi-bin/viewvc.cgi/gentoo-x86/eclass/cron.eclass?r1=1.15r2=1.16 From the commit log: Per extensive discussion with zmedico about removing the need for package.provided, several packages have been changed, like sudo, to not explicitly require an mta. Cron will follow, leaving mta support optional. The rationale (I suppose) is that the programs in question still work, just the sending of emails fails. Good riddance, if you ask me. If you need/want an MTA, just install ssmtp by hand. Agreed. It's a bit daft relying on a cron daemon to be the only package pulling in a mailer. One can't even argue that it makes sense as a default - cron merely has this feature to notify the root user if a cron job wrote something to STDOUT. That's a notification. It is not an absolute need to have sendmail. If you want a syslogger, install a syslogger. If you want a print server, install a print server. Likewise, if you want a mailer, install one. If I want syslog-support, I add syslog to USE. If I want ssl-support, I add ssl to USE. If I want perl-support, I add perl to USE. If I want mta-support, I add... wait, no! I can not add mta to USE, I have to install mta manually... Got the picture now? Jarry -- ___ This mailbox accepts e-mails only from selected mailing-lists! Everything else is considered to be spam and therefore deleted.
Re: [gentoo-user] No mailer for Gentoo???
On 06/09/2013 18:21, Canek Peláez Valdés wrote: On Fri, Sep 6, 2013 at 11:14 AM, Canek Peláez Valdés can...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Sep 6, 2013 at 10:51 AM, Jarry mr.ja...@gmail.com wrote: On 06-Sep-13 17:32, Michael Orlitzky wrote: On 09/06/2013 11:23 AM, Jarry wrote: It wasn't part of @system before, you just removed the thing that pulled it in. No I did not. mail-mta/ssmtp was part of stage3. And I did not remove now any thing that pulled it in. All I did was emerge --ask --update --deep --newuse world. As a result, python-exec, python-argparse and libxml2 were reinstalled and automake-wrapper, gtk-doc-am, eselect and linux-header updated. Nothing else. After that I did emerge --depclean and the above mentioned packages were suddenly removed... It could be that a package's deps were updated to no longer include virtual/mta. But it was never part of @system, you can check for yourself: http://sources.gentoo.org/cgi-bin/viewvc.cgi/gentoo-x86/profiles/base/packages?view=log Then something got broken because I have packages installed that need mailer (i.e. app-admin/monit or sys-fs/mdadm are configured to send emails). And these packages do not have mail use-flag, because their maintainers apparently expect standard *nix mailer (/usr/bin/sendmail) exists on the system... So now I have stable system, updated to the latest level, where a lot of things suddenly do not work. This should *never* happen! If it was some package's dep that caused it, it's clear this change was premature... I think is a bug in the packages. In my system the only package that pulls vitual/mta (and therefore ssmtp) is vixie-cron. The change happened in the cron eclass: http://sources.gentoo.org/cgi-bin/viewvc.cgi/gentoo-x86/eclass/cron.eclass?r1=1.15r2=1.16 From the commit log: Per extensive discussion with zmedico about removing the need for package.provided, several packages have been changed, like sudo, to not explicitly require an mta. Cron will follow, leaving mta support optional. The rationale (I suppose) is that the programs in question still work, just the sending of emails fails. Good riddance, if you ask me. If you need/want an MTA, just install ssmtp by hand. Agreed. It's a bit daft relying on a cron daemon to be the only package pulling in a mailer. One can't even argue that it makes sense as a default - cron merely has this feature to notify the root user if a cron job wrote something to STDOUT. That's a notification. It is not an absolute need to have sendmail. If you want a syslogger, install a syslogger. If you want a print server, install a print server. Likewise, if you want a mailer, install one. The days of classic Unix servers representing what a Gentoo system should be are long gone. -- Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com
Re: [gentoo-user] No mailer for Gentoo???
2013/9/6 Jarry mr.ja...@gmail.com On 06-Sep-13 18:56, Alan McKinnon wrote: On 06/09/2013 18:21, Canek Peláez Valdés wrote: On Fri, Sep 6, 2013 at 11:14 AM, Canek Peláez Valdés can...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Sep 6, 2013 at 10:51 AM, Jarry mr.ja...@gmail.com wrote: On 06-Sep-13 17:32, Michael Orlitzky wrote: On 09/06/2013 11:23 AM, Jarry wrote: It wasn't part of @system before, you just removed the thing that pulled it in. No I did not. mail-mta/ssmtp was part of stage3. And I did not remove now any thing that pulled it in. All I did was emerge --ask --update --deep --newuse world. As a result, python-exec, python-argparse and libxml2 were reinstalled and automake-wrapper, gtk-doc-am, eselect and linux-header updated. Nothing else. After that I did emerge --depclean and the above mentioned packages were suddenly removed... It could be that a package's deps were updated to no longer include virtual/mta. But it was never part of @system, you can check for yourself: http://sources.gentoo.org/cgi-**bin/viewvc.cgi/gentoo-x86/** profiles/base/packages?view=**loghttp://sources.gentoo.org/cgi-bin/viewvc.cgi/gentoo-x86/profiles/base/packages?view=log Then something got broken because I have packages installed that need mailer (i.e. app-admin/monit or sys-fs/mdadm are configured to send emails). And these packages do not have mail use-flag, because their maintainers apparently expect standard *nix mailer (/usr/bin/sendmail) exists on the system... So now I have stable system, updated to the latest level, where a lot of things suddenly do not work. This should *never* happen! If it was some package's dep that caused it, it's clear this change was premature... I think is a bug in the packages. In my system the only package that pulls vitual/mta (and therefore ssmtp) is vixie-cron. The change happened in the cron eclass: http://sources.gentoo.org/cgi-**bin/viewvc.cgi/gentoo-x86/** eclass/cron.eclass?r1=1.15r2=**1.16http://sources.gentoo.org/cgi-bin/viewvc.cgi/gentoo-x86/eclass/cron.eclass?r1=1.15r2=1.16 From the commit log: Per extensive discussion with zmedico about removing the need for package.provided, several packages have been changed, like sudo, to not explicitly require an mta. Cron will follow, leaving mta support optional. The rationale (I suppose) is that the programs in question still work, just the sending of emails fails. Good riddance, if you ask me. If you need/want an MTA, just install ssmtp by hand. Agreed. It's a bit daft relying on a cron daemon to be the only package pulling in a mailer. One can't even argue that it makes sense as a default - cron merely has this feature to notify the root user if a cron job wrote something to STDOUT. That's a notification. It is not an absolute need to have sendmail. If you want a syslogger, install a syslogger. If you want a print server, install a print server. Likewise, if you want a mailer, install one. If I want syslog-support, I add syslog to USE. If I want ssl-support, I add ssl to USE. If I want perl-support, I add perl to USE. If I want mta-support, I add... wait, no! I can not add mta to USE, I have to install mta manually... Got the picture now? The gnome USE does not install Gnome for you. Sorry for that. Jarry -- __**__**___ This mailbox accepts e-mails only from selected mailing-lists! Everything else is considered to be spam and therefore deleted.
Re: [gentoo-user] No mailer for Gentoo???
On Fri, Sep 6, 2013 at 11:45 AM, Jarry mr.ja...@gmail.com wrote: On 06-Sep-13 18:29, Canek Peláez Valdés wrote: On Fri, Sep 6, 2013 at 11:22 AM, Jarry mr.ja...@gmail.com wrote: On 06-Sep-13 18:14, Canek Peláez Valdés wrote: On Fri, Sep 6, 2013 at 10:51 AM, Jarry mr.ja...@gmail.com wrote: On 06-Sep-13 17:32, Michael Orlitzky wrote: On 09/06/2013 11:23 AM, Jarry wrote: It wasn't part of @system before, you just removed the thing that pulled it in. No I did not. mail-mta/ssmtp was part of stage3. And I did not remove now any thing that pulled it in. All I did was emerge --ask --update --deep --newuse world. As a result, python-exec, python-argparse and libxml2 were reinstalled and automake-wrapper, gtk-doc-am, eselect and linux-header updated. Nothing else. After that I did emerge --depclean and the above mentioned packages were suddenly removed... It could be that a package's deps were updated to no longer include virtual/mta. But it was never part of @system, you can check for yourself: http://sources.gentoo.org/cgi-bin/viewvc.cgi/gentoo-x86/profiles/base/packages?view=log Then something got broken because I have packages installed that need mailer (i.e. app-admin/monit or sys-fs/mdadm are configured to send emails). And these packages do not have mail use-flag, because their maintainers apparently expect standard *nix mailer (/usr/bin/sendmail) exists on the system... So now I have stable system, updated to the latest level, where a lot of things suddenly do not work. This should *never* happen! If it was some package's dep that caused it, it's clear this change was premature... I think is a bug in the packages. In my system the only package that pulls vitual/mta (and therefore ssmtp) is vixie-cron. That is strange. I have sys-process/vixie-cron-4.1-r12 and yet revdep-rebuild does not want to pull virtual/mta. But It should, as cron can be configured to send emails too. Read my last mail; they changed the RDEPEND for the cron eclass. As I wrote: there are *many* packages that expect standard *nix mailer exists! If it does not, a lot of packages must be fixed to include mailer as dependency. The devs disagree. I think I'm with them; the packages in question actually work, it just happens that they can't send mails anymore. If you need/want them to send mails, install an MTA. Just can't send mails. So if mdadm detects failed drive in raid1 and I do not get mail about it, I will discover it at least when the 2nd drive fails. That's a relief... I believe we can trust Gentoo users to know when they have (or not) an MTA. Why is there no global use-variable mta? Why not even local for packages that might use mailer? This goes completely against Gentoo-principles, if user has to search which other packages are required and install them manually. Is it not what we have use-flags for? The problem with USE flags is that they trigger a recompile when they change. In this case a recompile is completely unnecessary, since the package *works* with and without an MTA. As I said, the only difference is that you can (or not) send mails. I don't see a problem with that; if you need an MTA, install an MTA. If you think is a problem, file a bug. But I think it will be closed as WONTFIX. Regards. -- Canek Peláez Valdés Posgrado en Ciencia e Ingeniería de la Computación Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México
