Re: [gentoo-user] visualise openrc initscript start order and dependency tree
On Mon, 11 Nov 2019 14:32:36 +, Peter Humphrey wrote: > > Fact is, there are a lot of people out there who hate systemd because > > it's been successful, and it's been successful because it sticks to > > the nix philosophy of "do one thing, and do it well". > > ...but not the other *nix tradition of minimising keystrokes. Thank $DEITY for aliases! -- Neil Bothwick Remember, it takes 47 muscles to frown And only 4 to pull the trigger of a sniper rifle pgpGI2MrsAZgd.pgp Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [gentoo-user] visualise openrc initscript start order and dependency tree
On Mon, 11 Nov 2019 06:54:31 -0500, Rich Freeman wrote: > > > It was obviously a semi-trollish comment. > > > > > Now that's harsh! Although yes I'm sure he was tweaking tails - hence > > the "tongue in cheek" smiley. > > I didn't intend to suggest that I thought it was mean-spirited. Just > stirring the pot. Guilty as charged ;-) > > Fact is, there are a lot of people out there who hate systemd because > > it's been successful, and it's been successful because it sticks to > > the nix philosophy of "do one thing, and do it well". > > > > Now, THAT is a semi-trollish comment if I ever saw one. :) > > That said, you could argue that the individual components of systemd > do generally do one thing well. I think the criticism is more in the > packaging, and that the components mostly don't interchange with > anything non-systemd. Though as we can see from eudev/elogind and so > on that isn't strictly the case. It seems that most of the criticism is about the way it was developed and by whom, rather than the merits or demerits of the code itself, > I sometimes describe systemd as the anti-busybox. > > But, I don't want to derail the thread entirely... I think you're too late :) -- Neil Bothwick Make like a tree and leave. pgpXl8lBKhnf1.pgp Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [gentoo-user] visualise openrc initscript start order and dependency tree
On Monday, 11 November 2019 10:38:50 GMT Wols Lists wrote: > Fact is, there are a lot of people out there who hate systemd because > it's been successful, and it's been successful because it sticks to the > nix philosophy of "do one thing, and do it well". ...but not the other *nix tradition of minimising keystrokes. -- Regards, Peter.
Re: [gentoo-user] visualise openrc initscript start order and dependency tree
On 11/11/19 11:54, Rich Freeman wrote: > On Mon, Nov 11, 2019 at 5:38 AM Wols Lists wrote: >> >> On 09/11/19 19:51, Rich Freeman wrote: >>> >>> Only if somebody has created a generator for openrc, which I doubt. >>> It was obviously a semi-trollish comment. >>> >> Now that's harsh! Although yes I'm sure he was tweaking tails - hence >> the "tongue in cheek" smiley. > > I didn't intend to suggest that I thought it was mean-spirited. Just > stirring the pot. > Fair enough. Trouble is, you can't be too careful with what you say on the internet - it's too easily taken out of context or just plain mis-understood. >> >> Fact is, there are a lot of people out there who hate systemd because >> it's been successful, and it's been successful because it sticks to the >> nix philosophy of "do one thing, and do it well". >> > > Now, THAT is a semi-trollish comment if I ever saw one. :) > > That said, you could argue that the individual components of systemd > do generally do one thing well. I think the criticism is more in the > packaging, and that the components mostly don't interchange with > anything non-systemd. Though as we can see from eudev/elogind and so > on that isn't strictly the case. > > I sometimes describe systemd as the anti-busybox. > > But, I don't want to derail the thread entirely... > Poettering is very much "do it right, if something else is already broken then just break it completely". Much better for a computer, but ruffles peoples' feathers ... That said, yes we are derailing this thread somewhat :-) Cheers, Wol
Re: [gentoo-user] visualise openrc initscript start order and dependency tree
On Monday, 11 November 2019 11:54:31 GMT Rich Freeman wrote: > On Mon, Nov 11, 2019 at 5:38 AM Wols Lists wrote: > > > Fact is, there are a lot of people out there who hate systemd because > > it's been successful, and it's been successful because it sticks to the > > nix philosophy of "do one thing, and do it well". > > Now, THAT is a semi-trollish comment if I ever saw one. :) Well, the major criticism *against* systemd has been that it has been designed in an orthogonal direction to the *nix philosophy. It tried from inception to do many things, building a monolithic stack primarily to facilitate quick and easy spinning of linux deployment in cloud technologies. > That said, you could argue that the individual components of systemd > do generally do one thing well. I think the criticism is more in the > packaging, and that the components mostly don't interchange with > anything non-systemd. Though as we can see from eudev/elogind and so > on that isn't strictly the case. > > I sometimes describe systemd as the anti-busybox. Well, some systemd components can be taken as single applications and used separately from the whole systemd stack, that much is true. However, (some) systemd devs are known for for being disrespectful towards the rest of the Linux ecosystem and making architectural decisions which break interoperability. systemd has been gradually taking over more and more functions/services which reminds me of the old emacs joke: "... emacs is a fine operating system, in need of a good editor" > But, I don't want to derail the thread entirely... Sorry, I couldn't resist contributing! :-) -- Regards, Mick signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: [gentoo-user] visualise openrc initscript start order and dependency tree
On Mon, Nov 11, 2019 at 5:38 AM Wols Lists wrote: > > On 09/11/19 19:51, Rich Freeman wrote: > > > > Only if somebody has created a generator for openrc, which I doubt. > > It was obviously a semi-trollish comment. > > > Now that's harsh! Although yes I'm sure he was tweaking tails - hence > the "tongue in cheek" smiley. I didn't intend to suggest that I thought it was mean-spirited. Just stirring the pot. > > Fact is, there are a lot of people out there who hate systemd because > it's been successful, and it's been successful because it sticks to the > nix philosophy of "do one thing, and do it well". > Now, THAT is a semi-trollish comment if I ever saw one. :) That said, you could argue that the individual components of systemd do generally do one thing well. I think the criticism is more in the packaging, and that the components mostly don't interchange with anything non-systemd. Though as we can see from eudev/elogind and so on that isn't strictly the case. I sometimes describe systemd as the anti-busybox. But, I don't want to derail the thread entirely... -- Rich
Re: [gentoo-user] visualise openrc initscript start order and dependency tree
On 09/11/19 19:51, Rich Freeman wrote: > On Sat, Nov 9, 2019 at 7:01 AM J. Roeleveld wrote: >> >> On 9 November 2019 11:42:38 CET, Neil Bothwick wrote: >>> On Fri, 08 Nov 2019 21:03:13 +0100, J. Roeleveld wrote: >>> I had a similar issue and ended up checking every init-script, conf.d file and rc.conf entry and making a dependency-tree manually on a big white-board. I haven't found a tool that does this automatically yet. >>> >>> systemd's systemctl ;-) >>> >>> I'll get my coat... >> >> Does this parse openrc scripts correctly? > > Only if somebody has created a generator for openrc, which I doubt. > It was obviously a semi-trollish comment. > Now that's harsh! Although yes I'm sure he was tweaking tails - hence the "tongue in cheek" smiley. Fact is, there are a lot of people out there who hate systemd because it's been successful, and it's been successful because it sticks to the nix philosophy of "do one thing, and do it well". Cheers, Wol
Re: [gentoo-user] visualise openrc initscript start order and dependency tree
On Sat, Nov 9, 2019 at 7:01 AM J. Roeleveld wrote: > > On 9 November 2019 11:42:38 CET, Neil Bothwick wrote: > >On Fri, 08 Nov 2019 21:03:13 +0100, J. Roeleveld wrote: > > > >> I had a similar issue and ended up checking every init-script, conf.d > >> file and rc.conf entry and making a dependency-tree manually on a big > >> white-board. > >> > >> I haven't found a tool that does this automatically yet. > > > >systemd's systemctl ;-) > > > >I'll get my coat... > > Does this parse openrc scripts correctly? Only if somebody has created a generator for openrc, which I doubt. It was obviously a semi-trollish comment. That said, if somebody is looking to write a utility and wants to see what else is out there, systemd has a couple of useful utilities that work along these lines. For example, a short snippet out of systemctl list-dependencies: ● ├─remote-fs.target ● │ ├─mnt-lizardfs.mount ● │ ├─var-lib-machines.mount ● │ └─nfs-client.target ● │ ├─auth-rpcgss-module.service ● │ ├─rpc-statd-notify.service ● │ └─remote-fs-pre.target (The full output is obviously long on any complex host, but this gives an idea. A target is basically a virtual service - similar to a virtual package like plasma-meta.) There are also some tools in systemd-analyze that give you bootchart-like capabilities based on log scanning. It can figure out the critical path to getting to your target runlevel and what services slowed that down the most (though on a really busy host you need to bear in mind that other stuff was launching in parallel so the times given aren't what you'd get if nothing else was running.) Oh, and while bootchart doesn't really show dependencies (at least I don't think it does), if you haven't checked it out you might still find it useful. I believe that does work with openrc, and it at least helps you see where the system is spending its time at boot. -- Rich
Re: [gentoo-user] visualise openrc initscript start order and dependency tree
On 9 November 2019 11:42:38 CET, Neil Bothwick wrote: >On Fri, 08 Nov 2019 21:03:13 +0100, J. Roeleveld wrote: > >> I had a similar issue and ended up checking every init-script, conf.d >> file and rc.conf entry and making a dependency-tree manually on a big >> white-board. >> >> I haven't found a tool that does this automatically yet. > >systemd's systemctl ;-) > >I'll get my coat... Does this parse openrc scripts correctly? -- Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
Re: [gentoo-user] visualise openrc initscript start order and dependency tree
On Fri, 08 Nov 2019 21:03:13 +0100, J. Roeleveld wrote: > I had a similar issue and ended up checking every init-script, conf.d > file and rc.conf entry and making a dependency-tree manually on a big > white-board. > > I haven't found a tool that does this automatically yet. systemd's systemctl ;-) I'll get my coat... -- Neil Bothwick Some cause happiness wherever they go. Others whenever they go. pgpMkYZUzCIEj.pgp Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [gentoo-user] visualise openrc initscript start order and dependency tree
On 9/11/19 4:03 am, J. Roeleveld wrote: > On Thursday, November 7, 2019 4:06:10 PM CET Daniel Frey wrote: >> On 2019-11-07 04:37, Bill Kenworthy wrote: >>> I have run into some problems creating openrc initscripts for moosefs - >>> is there something that will display the start order/dependency tree? >>> Text or graphical doesn't matter. >>> >>> Bill K. >> rc-status does try to resolve dependencies and list them in order, try >> `rc-status -a` - this will list all scripts (including ones not in startup.) >> >> Dan > Actually, it doesn't show what is depending on what. > > I had a similar issue and ended up checking every init-script, conf.d file > and > rc.conf entry and making a dependency-tree manually on a big white-board. > > I haven't found a tool that does this automatically yet. > > -- > Joost > > > > Thanks, I ended up working around it rather than solving i. BillK
Re: [gentoo-user] visualise openrc initscript start order and dependency tree
On Thursday, November 7, 2019 1:37:21 PM CET Bill Kenworthy wrote: > I have run into some problems creating openrc initscripts for moosefs - > is there something that will display the start order/dependency tree? > Text or graphical doesn't matter. > > Bill K. The closest to this is: /lib/rc/bin/rc-depend xdm (This will return ALL the services that need to be started before "xdm" can start, according to the dependencies) This can also be executed as a normal (NON-root) user. To force a regen of the dependency-tree, you can issue: "/lib/rc/bin/rc-depend --update" (This does require root) -- Joost
Re: [gentoo-user] visualise openrc initscript start order and dependency tree
On Thursday, November 7, 2019 4:06:10 PM CET Daniel Frey wrote: > On 2019-11-07 04:37, Bill Kenworthy wrote: > > I have run into some problems creating openrc initscripts for moosefs - > > is there something that will display the start order/dependency tree? > > Text or graphical doesn't matter. > > > > Bill K. > > rc-status does try to resolve dependencies and list them in order, try > `rc-status -a` - this will list all scripts (including ones not in startup.) > > Dan Actually, it doesn't show what is depending on what. I had a similar issue and ended up checking every init-script, conf.d file and rc.conf entry and making a dependency-tree manually on a big white-board. I haven't found a tool that does this automatically yet. -- Joost
Re: [gentoo-user] visualise openrc initscript start order and dependency tree
On 2019-11-07 04:37, Bill Kenworthy wrote: I have run into some problems creating openrc initscripts for moosefs - is there something that will display the start order/dependency tree? Text or graphical doesn't matter. Bill K. rc-status does try to resolve dependencies and list them in order, try `rc-status -a` - this will list all scripts (including ones not in startup.) Dan