Re: Bl**dy Beeb Truncations on iPlayer

[Dave Liquorice]

On Thu, 30 Jun 2016 20:30:51 +0100, Chris Woods wrote:

> As I understand it, programmes are recorded with buffer time then may be 
> manually reviewed and trimmed if there's too much cruft.

Several ways to interperet that.

It's a good few years since I was engineering BBC radio programmes but 
generally speaking shows with "people gathered around a microphone" were 
made to time. If there is fluff in a read a stopwatch comes in handy, 
stopped and started as appropiate. There was little to no "buffer time". 
Shows with prerecorded sections would have the links written so the total 
duration was within ten of seconds or so of the required duration. The 
editing of the prerecorded sections would of course be done taking into 
account the required overall duration. And considerable amounts of material 
could be "out takes" or not...

I doubt that the BBC has substanially changed it's operating procedures. The 
programmes producer would listen to the finished programme and sign it off 
as "ready for transmission". A programme tape not signed off would not be 
transmitted. Network would request a duration at the commissioning stage and 
generally speaking that duration was stuck to +/- a loose 10 seconds. If a 
programme ran 28'45" that is the time it would occupy, if it *had* to be 
adjusted it *had* to go back to the producer, the changes made and signed 
off again. The producer is where the buck stops, only they can make 
decisions about what can or can't be cut. No one in continuity has the 
authority to make changes.

IIRC 28'30" was (is..) the requested duration of a 1/2 hour radio a show. 
The durations quoted are 28'30" +/- "a loose ten seconds"

-- 
Cheers
Dave.



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Re: Bl**dy Beeb Truncations on iPlayer

[Jon Davies]

On 30 June 2016 at 18:19, CJB  wrote:
> Thank Don
>
> I'll check out others over the weekend. But this has been going on for
> years.The Beeb says that it adds 2 mins to the start and end of a
> prog. but if  programme is say 30 mins long then the file should be 34
> mins not 28 or less etc.!!

This is a pointless conversation.  all get_iplayer does (and can do)
is download the media content that the BBC makes available.

If you don't like the BBC's content, either complain to the BBC or go
somewhere else for tv and radio programmes.

If get_iplayer is downloading content incorrectly, by all means ask
questions here, but if you have issues with the content please take
those conversations somewhere more appropriate.

Jon

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Re: Bl**dy Beeb Truncations on iPlayer

[Colin Law]

On 30 June 2016 at 18:19, CJB  wrote:
> Thank Don
>
> I'll check out others over the weekend. But this has been going on for
> years.The Beeb says that it adds 2 mins to the start and end of a
> prog. but if  programme is say 30 mins long then the file should be 34
> mins not 28 or less etc.!!

Is it not whether the complete programme is there or not, that matters?

Colin

>
> Chris B
>
> On 29/06/2016, Don Grunbaum (Gmail)  wrote:
>> I have found that some programmes are truncated when they are first
>> available on iPlayer.
>>
>> They get corrected later, presumably because someone tells the "beeb"
>> of the problem.
>>
>> Don
>>
>> - Original Message -
>> From: "artisticforge ." 
>> To: "CJB" 
>> Cc: "get_iplayer" 
>> Sent: Wednesday, June 29, 2016 9:19 PM
>> Subject: Re: Bl**dy Beeb Truncations on iPlayer
>>
>>
>>> hello
>>>
>>> I am not sure what you mean by 'Truncated".
>>> The original show content appears to be entirely there.
>>> The download is not 30 minutes long. The BBC Radio Preamble and
>>> Post-amble are  trimmed off.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jun 29, 2016 at 9:49 AM, CJB  wrote:
 Bl**dy Beeb Truncations on iPlayer

 Brit. comedies and likely many other progs on Radio this week on
 iPlayer appear to be truncated at the end.

 Hancock's Half Hour - The Idol, BBC Radio 4 Extra (b007jq3k)

 Duration: 27:41.73

 The Men From the Ministry - Nothing But the Vest, BBC Radio 4 Extra
 (b007jz45)

 Duration: 28:14.16

 The Navy Lark - The Poveys Move House, BBC Radio 4 Extra (b01n2vcg)

 Duration: 28:44.26

 Parsley Sidings: Series 1 - Goodbye Parsley Sidings, BBC Radio 4
 Extra
 (b008s3d0)

 Duration: 28:15.21

 CJB

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>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> terry l. ridder ><>
>>>
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>>
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>
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Re: Bl**dy Beeb Truncations on iPlayer

[Chris Woods]

For a half hour programme I'd expect around 28 or 29 minutes. Leaves space 
for credit reads, trails for forthcoming shows etc. It wouldn't make sense 
to do a full thirty minutes as there would be no slack in the schedule and 
that flexibility sometimes comes in quite useful.


As I understand it, programmes are recorded with buffer time then may be 
manually reviewed and trimmed if there's too much cruft.



On 30 June 2016 6:20:53 p.m. CJB  wrote:


Thank Don

I'll check out others over the weekend. But this has been going on for
years.The Beeb says that it adds 2 mins to the start and end of a
prog. but if  programme is say 30 mins long then the file should be 34
mins not 28 or less etc.!!

Chris B

On 29/06/2016, Don Grunbaum (Gmail)  wrote:

I have found that some programmes are truncated when they are first
available on iPlayer.

They get corrected later, presumably because someone tells the "beeb"
of the problem.

Don

- Original Message -
From: "artisticforge ." 
To: "CJB" 
Cc: "get_iplayer" 
Sent: Wednesday, June 29, 2016 9:19 PM
Subject: Re: Bl**dy Beeb Truncations on iPlayer



hello

I am not sure what you mean by 'Truncated".
The original show content appears to be entirely there.
The download is not 30 minutes long. The BBC Radio Preamble and
Post-amble are  trimmed off.


On Wed, Jun 29, 2016 at 9:49 AM, CJB  wrote:

Bl**dy Beeb Truncations on iPlayer

Brit. comedies and likely many other progs on Radio this week on
iPlayer appear to be truncated at the end.

Hancock's Half Hour - The Idol, BBC Radio 4 Extra (b007jq3k)

Duration: 27:41.73

The Men From the Ministry - Nothing But the Vest, BBC Radio 4 Extra
(b007jz45)

Duration: 28:14.16

The Navy Lark - The Poveys Move House, BBC Radio 4 Extra (b01n2vcg)

Duration: 28:44.26

Parsley Sidings: Series 1 - Goodbye Parsley Sidings, BBC Radio 4
Extra
(b008s3d0)

Duration: 28:15.21

CJB

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--
terry l. ridder ><>

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Re: Bl**dy Beeb Truncations on iPlayer

[James Scholes]

CJB wrote:
> The Beeb says that it adds 2 mins to the start and end of a prog. but
> if  programme is say 30 mins long then the file should be 34 mins not
> 28 or less etc.!!

This is no longer true in the majority of cases.  There have been real
efforts over the past year or so to limit the audio of radio programs to
their actual durations, cutting out the waffle from previous programs
and continuity announcers.  Something which, to me, makes a lot of
sense, although obviously this occasionally results in audio being cut a
little bit too much.

It's worth noting that I've just downloaded every program you pointed
out in your original post.  The durations you stated are spot on, so the
audio has not been edited since your message was sent to this list, but
if you'd actually listened to the audio you would've realised that there
is no program content missing whatsoever.  So I don't really understand
what you're complaining about?  Very few programs, from the BBC or
elsewhere, are exactly their stated durations in length, certainly not
older programs which were performed much loosely.  Why would you rather
have 34 minutes of audio when the actual program itself is complete and
only clocks in at 28?
-- 
James Scholes
http://twitter.com/JamesScholes

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Re: Bl**dy Beeb Truncations on iPlayer

[CJB]

Thank Don

I'll check out others over the weekend. But this has been going on for
years.The Beeb says that it adds 2 mins to the start and end of a
prog. but if  programme is say 30 mins long then the file should be 34
mins not 28 or less etc.!!

Chris B

On 29/06/2016, Don Grunbaum (Gmail)  wrote:
> I have found that some programmes are truncated when they are first
> available on iPlayer.
>
> They get corrected later, presumably because someone tells the "beeb"
> of the problem.
>
> Don
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "artisticforge ." 
> To: "CJB" 
> Cc: "get_iplayer" 
> Sent: Wednesday, June 29, 2016 9:19 PM
> Subject: Re: Bl**dy Beeb Truncations on iPlayer
>
>
>> hello
>>
>> I am not sure what you mean by 'Truncated".
>> The original show content appears to be entirely there.
>> The download is not 30 minutes long. The BBC Radio Preamble and
>> Post-amble are  trimmed off.
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Jun 29, 2016 at 9:49 AM, CJB  wrote:
>>> Bl**dy Beeb Truncations on iPlayer
>>>
>>> Brit. comedies and likely many other progs on Radio this week on
>>> iPlayer appear to be truncated at the end.
>>>
>>> Hancock's Half Hour - The Idol, BBC Radio 4 Extra (b007jq3k)
>>>
>>> Duration: 27:41.73
>>>
>>> The Men From the Ministry - Nothing But the Vest, BBC Radio 4 Extra
>>> (b007jz45)
>>>
>>> Duration: 28:14.16
>>>
>>> The Navy Lark - The Poveys Move House, BBC Radio 4 Extra (b01n2vcg)
>>>
>>> Duration: 28:44.26
>>>
>>> Parsley Sidings: Series 1 - Goodbye Parsley Sidings, BBC Radio 4
>>> Extra
>>> (b008s3d0)
>>>
>>> Duration: 28:15.21
>>>
>>> CJB
>>>
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>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> terry l. ridder ><>
>>
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>
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