Re: [Gimp-developer] Example: Vala as code generator

2011-05-03 Thread Martin Nordholts
2011/5/3 Simon Budig si...@budig.de:
 Martin Nordholts (ense...@gmail.com) wrote:
 I'm trying hard to find time hacking on GIMP, and not having to waste
 time on GObject C boiler plate means a lot to me. At first I was
 thinking what the hell, I'll just come up with the the damn
 boilerplate code manually then. But right after I began doing that I
 started to feel like I was wasting my time, and I can't stand that
 feeling.

 Hm. This paragraphs leaves me a bit perplexed, because it gives the
 impression that the most important thing about including vala is to make
 you more comfortable with our codebase. You blame mitch for a blunt
 dismissal, but this reads a lot like bluntly forcing down something
 through mitchs throat. Not sure if that is any better.

You are right, that isn't any better. I should just give up on these
patches, I clearly don't have the support for them I hoped for.

Obviously, in my opinion we increase the quality of our codebase by
using Vala for this helper class mostly because the number of readable
and documented version controlled lines of code is less than if we
would also version control the GObject C boiler plate. That is not the
only measurement of code quality however and we are simply weighting
the pros and cons differently.

 / Martin


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Re: [Gimp-developer] [GSoC] GimpSizeEntry widget

2011-05-03 Thread Alexia Death
2011/5/3 Enrico Schröder enni.schroe...@gmail.com:
 Hi all,

 i've come up with the first concept for the rewrite, including a class
 diagram and sequence diagrams for a few use cases:
 http://enni.userpage.fu-berlin.de/GimpSizeEntry.pdf
 Note that it mainly shows how the different components work together,
 not how each component does its work internally. If I forgot something
 (and I probably have ;-) ) please tell me.
 Martin: I planned on integration the keep-aspect-ratio functionality
 right away, because I don't think it's to much additional work.
Looks interesting:)

 Additionally I set up a task schedule on
 http://tasktaste.com/projects/enni/gimpsizeentry and applied for a gnome
 git account, but it probably takes some time for it to be activated.
Try poking mitch on IRC. He has the keys to the keep but he only looks
when he knows there is something pending :)

 Also, since I'm using a Mac and tried to not having to use a virtual
 machine, I built git-gimp natively on osx (without X11) and with a patch
 that moves the menubar from the main window to the top of the screen
 (like other mac apps). It really was a horrible experience (took me a
 whole day), so I thought it would be nice to have a precompiled
 app-bundle. As far as I know, there are no official mac binaries, right?
 The only ones I found where using X11, which isn't very good. I could
 try to provide osx binaries of the current 2.7.2 and then 2.8 including
 patches for the menu bar and a nice theme.
Im wondering if that menu patch could be formated into a build
switched thing that could be integrated. Being consistent with mac
paradigm sounds pretty important to me personally...



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Re: [Gimp-developer] [GSoC] GimpSizeEntry widget

2011-05-03 Thread Tobias Jakobs
2011/5/2 Enrico Schröder enni.schroe...@gmail.com:

 Also, since I'm using a Mac and tried to not having to use a virtual
 machine, I built git-gimp natively on osx (without X11) and with a patch
 that moves the menubar from the main window to the top of the screen
 (like other mac apps). It really was a horrible experience (took me a
 whole day),

It would be nice, if you can document the steps to compile Gimp for
MacOS in the Wiki:
http://wiki.gimp.org/index.php/Users:Beginner_Developer%27s_FAQ

 so I thought it would be nice to have a precompiled
 app-bundle. As far as I know, there are no official mac binaries, right?

Right, the gimp team doesn't provide any binary builds. Not for MacOS,
Windows or Linux. But there are Distribution like the one from Gimp
for OS X:
http://gimp.lisanet.de/Website/News/News.html

 The only ones I found where using X11, which isn't very good. I could
 try to provide osx binaries of the current 2.7.2 and then 2.8 including
 patches for the menu bar and a nice theme.

That would be cool. Perhaps you can work together with Simone from
Gimp for OS X.

Regards,
Tobias
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[Gimp-developer] gimp

2011-05-03 Thread jerry chaney
i downloaded gimp and wanted to try it out.  I ran into two problems right
away so I had to uninstall it.  First off, i live and work in China.  I am
an American English teacher over here and believe when I say this, not
everyone in China speaks and reads Chinese, just like not everyone who lives
in Japan speaks and reads Japanese.  I went to your help page on the web and
it covers language change but not for windows 7.  There has got to be a
simpler way to change the language then what is in your help section.  most
programs i download give me the option of language before downloading.  You
really need to fix this.

jerry
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[Gimp-developer] Thesis about managing Open source projects-informantions about GIMP

2011-05-03 Thread Peter Fodrek
Dear GIMP developpers,

My  colleague's students are processing theses dealing with  open source 
project  management methods but they fail to get contact to any open source 
project leader as well as  for GIMP leader. 

I wolud like to help them by providing contact to GIMP leader project.

Is it possible to be sent contact to project leaders or their mailing list, 
please?



I look forward hearing form you

Yours Faitfully  

-- 
Ing. Peter Fodrek, PhD.
Research scientist
Department of Informatics and Communication Technology 
Institute of Control and Industrial Informatics
Faculty of Electrical Engineering and Information Technology
Slovak University of Technology at Bratislava, Slovakia 
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Re: [Gimp-developer] gimp

2011-05-03 Thread Alexia Death
On Tue, May 3, 2011 at 2:06 PM, jerry chaney jerry.cha...@gmail.com wrote:
 You really need to fix this.
ITs been fixed in the development version and you will be able to
change the language in the preferences starting 2.8.


-- 
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Re: [Gimp-developer] gimp

2011-05-03 Thread jerry chaney
thank you

On Tue, May 3, 2011 at 20:10, Alexia Death alexiade...@gmail.com wrote:

 On Tue, May 3, 2011 at 2:06 PM, jerry chaney jerry.cha...@gmail.com
 wrote:
  You really need to fix this.
 ITs been fixed in the development version and you will be able to
 change the language in the preferences starting 2.8.


 --
 --Alexia

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Re: [Gimp-developer] Thesis about managing Open source projects-informantions about GIMP

2011-05-03 Thread Alexia Death
On Tue, May 3, 2011 at 2:46 PM, Peter Fodrek peter.fod...@stuba.sk wrote:
 My  colleague's students are processing theses dealing with  open source
 project  management methods but they fail to get contact to any open source
 project leader as well as  for GIMP leader.
Send your people to #gimp IRC channel on gimpnet. However you seem to
be looking for a rather mythical beast. What makes you think open
source projects necessarily have project leaders? We have lead
developers, we have one guy who does office manager stuff but I cant
say we have a project manager...


-- 
--Alexia
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Re: [Gimp-developer] gimp

2011-05-03 Thread Kurt Pruenner
On 03.05.2011 14:10, Alexia Death wrote:
 On Tue, May 3, 2011 at 2:06 PM, jerry chaney jerry.cha...@gmail.com wrote:
  You really need to fix this.

 ITs been fixed in the development version and you will be able to
 change the language in the preferences starting 2.8.

But will you be able to navigate (even to) the preferences if it's all
in Chinese?

Then again - at least the GIMP 2.6 installer for Windows allows you not
to install any translations, which in turn means all you'll ever get
from GIMP will be the built-in, i.e. English, messages...

-- 
Kurt Bernhard Pruenner --- Haendelstrasse 17 --- 4020 Linz --- Austria
...It might be written Mindfuck, but it's spelt L-A-I-N...
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[Gimp-developer] native osx version

2011-05-03 Thread Enrico Schröder
Creating a new thread as this has nothing to do with my Summer of Code 
project...

 It would be nice, if you can document the steps to compile Gimp for
 MacOS in the Wiki:
 http://wiki.gimp.org/index.php/Users:Beginner_Developer%27s_FAQ
I can try, but it was such a mess... I'm not sure I can remember all the 
steps I did, let alone if I'm able to document them ;) A lot of 
dependencies needed to be built and installed separately from the 
gtk-osx versions (and I'm not only talking about the usual suspects babl 
and gegl), then paths and makefiles had to be hacked for everything to 
point to the right place...

 That would be cool. Perhaps you can work together with Simone from
 Gimp for OS X.
On his website he is writing something about a bug in gnome regarding 
tablets which prevents him from releasing 2.7.2 and probably 2.8. I'm 
afraid I can't do much about it because I don't have a tablet and the 
time to fix bugs right now. Maybe after Summer of Code. I was just 
thinking about releasing binaries with the current limitations 
(apparently tablets not usable, no twain, no dbus) for those people who 
want to use it anyways.

 Im wondering if that menu patch could be formated into a build
 switched thing that could be integrated. Being consistent with mac
 paradigm sounds pretty important to me personally...
It's not my patch (I just modified it a little bit), but I think every 
modification is guarded by GDK_WINDOWING_QUARTZ and __x86_64__ so there 
should be no problem. Can't test 32-bit though, but I'm not sure which 
osx versions this affects. Also it uses some deprecated stuff in 
gtkosxapplication.h so it needs some modifications there, will look into 
that.
The other thing is that we need to link against an additional library, 
but I don't have any experience with modifying autotools build systems. 
What is to be modified to do that properly?
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Re: [Gimp-developer] Thesis about managing Open source projects-informantions about GIMP

2011-05-03 Thread Peter Fodrek
On Tuesday 03 May 2011 14:15:08 Alexia Death wrote:
 On Tue, May 3, 2011 at 2:46 PM, Peter Fodrek peter.fod...@stuba.sk wrote:
  My  colleague's students are processing theses dealing with  open source
  project  management methods but they fail to get contact to any open
  source project leader as well as  for GIMP leader.
 
 Send your people to #gimp IRC channel on gimpnet. However you seem to
 be looking for a rather mythical beast. What makes you think open
 source projects necessarily have project leaders? We have lead
 developers, we have one guy who does office manager stuff but I cant
 say we have a project manager...

I think project founders, lead developers and code reviewers acts as project 
distributes leaders managers.  Students task is to found how open source 
projects are organized. I am open source develloper but only in very smal OSS 
project HeeksCAD (3 founders/reviewers, 42 ever time commiters), HeeksCNC (3 
founders/reviewers, 8 commiters) with centralized SCM systems. I am to think 
branch maintainers are managers as well.

Thank for your answer

I look forward hearing from you

Yours faithfully

Peter Fodrek
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Re: [Gimp-developer] native osx version

2011-05-03 Thread Tim Chen
On May 3, 2011, at 8:22 PM, Enrico Schröder wrote:

 Creating a new thread as this has nothing to do with my Summer of Code 
 project...
 
 It would be nice, if you can document the steps to compile Gimp for
 MacOS in the Wiki:
 http://wiki.gimp.org/index.php/Users:Beginner_Developer%27s_FAQ
 I can try, but it was such a mess... I'm not sure I can remember all the 
 steps I did, let alone if I'm able to document them ;) A lot of 
 dependencies needed to be built and installed separately from the 
 gtk-osx versions (and I'm not only talking about the usual suspects babl 
 and gegl), then paths and makefiles had to be hacked for everything to 
 point to the right place...

I wrote a small article about how to build gimp at 

https://sites.google.com/site/httimchen/2011_imagesvn/build-gimp-on-mac

And I will port it onto wiki with further detail in these days.

Will let you guys know when I am done and maybe Enrico can provide further 
comments and details on that :D

thanks,
-Tim
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Re: [Gimp-developer] nonlinear revision control system for GIMP

2011-05-03 Thread Tim Chen

On May 3, 2011, at 12:49 AM, Martin Nordholts wrote:
 
 I'm convinced (others are not) we should use the proven
 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Command_pattern and
 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Composite_pattern for macro recording and
 wrote some patches a while ago that introduced a GimpCommand and a
 GimpGroupCommand class. I didn't have time to even turn it into a
 working prototype however.
 

Hi Martin,

It sounds like that there are other thoughts about how to implement the macro 
system? During my GIMP hack last year, my impression was that macro recording 
should be done in PDB. And I did not do so because not every functions went 
through PDB, e.g. those stroke functions (please correct me if my memory did 
not serve me right). 

 
 This is not a trivial refactoring, but we need to do it eventually.
 

Yes, this is non-trivial and I am certainly not the best one to do such heavy 
duty stuff. And I still don't feel too comfortable seeing all those GObject and 
Glib stuffs...I guess I will first release my hacked and messy GIMP version for 
researchers first...

In any case, the GIMP community helps me a lot and I do like to contribute 
something back, i.e. integrate my system into GIMP core.

Regards,
-Tim




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Re: [Gimp-developer] Thesis about managing Open source projects-informantions about GIMP

2011-05-03 Thread Alexandre Prokoudine
On 5/3/11, Peter Fodrek wrote:
 Dear GIMP developpers,

 My  colleague's students are processing theses dealing with  open source
 project  management methods but they fail to get contact to any open source
 project leader as well as  for GIMP leader.

Well, I know nearly everyone in multimedia field. Who do you need to contact to?

Also, why do they fail to contact leaders when all it takes is mail
anyone from existing dev team?

Alexandre Prokoudine
http://libregraphicsworld.org
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Re: [Gimp-developer] gimp

2011-05-03 Thread Alexandre Prokoudine
On 5/3/11, jerry chaney wrote:
 i downloaded gimp and wanted to try it out.  I ran into two problems right
 away so I had to uninstall it.  First off, i live and work in China.  I am
 an American English teacher over here and believe when I say this, not
 everyone in China speaks and reads Chinese, just like not everyone who lives
 in Japan speaks and reads Japanese.  I went to your help page on the web and
 it covers language change but not for windows 7.  There has got to be a
 simpler way to change the language then what is in your help section.  most
 programs i download give me the option of language before downloading.  You
 really need to fix this.

If you don't speak and read Chinese, then why do you have system
locale set to it? :)

But, as Alexia already noted, the language switch is there in upcoming 2.8.

Alexandre Prokoudine
http://libregraphicsworld.org
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Re: [Gimp-developer] [GSoC] GimpSizeEntry widget

2011-05-03 Thread Martin Nordholts
2011/5/2 Enrico Schröder enni.schroe...@gmail.com:
 Hi all,

 i've come up with the first concept for the rewrite, including a class
 diagram and sequence diagrams for a few use cases:
 http://enni.userpage.fu-berlin.de/GimpSizeEntry.pdf
 Note that it mainly shows how the different components work together,
 not how each component does its work internally. If I forgot something
 (and I probably have ;-) ) please tell me.
 Martin: I planned on integration the keep-aspect-ratio functionality
 right away, because I don't think it's to much additional work.

Hi Enrico

That's a good start! A couple of comments

 * As this project is not about refactoring GimpSizeEntry but instead
write a new widget from scratch so we can get it right this time, we
need a new name. I could think of GimpDimensionEntry and
GimpUnitEntry, feel free to come up with something better.

 * The sequence diagrams should be on the class interface i.e. method
level. For example, in the simply entering two values sequence
diagram, what classes and method calls will be involved in order to
let GimpSizeEntry b know about GimpSizeEntry a? (I don't understand
why in that use case they need to know about each others value at all
though, they are independent, aren't they?)

 * You should put some thought into what exactly happens during
enters value a, enter value in a new unit etc. You'll get a
GtkEditable::insert-text signal, but then what? Some kind of parsing
needs to take place. Take a look at GimpEevl which is a unit parser we
already have, resuing that would be ideal.

 * In the Changing aspect ratio sequence diagram, a good design
would have an abstraction for the aspect ratio constraint, so that it
would be equally easy to have a constraint between two entries that
said entry_a = entry_b + 100 as it is to have entry_a = entry_b *
1.33. Think a base class GimpUnitConstraint with GimpOffsetContrainst
and GimpAspectRatioConstraint sub classes. In order to verify a design
for the aspect ratio preservation use case, what GimpUnitEntry classes
and method calls are involved in the following situation (which is the
main use case for aspect ratio preservation):

The current image has a pixel size of 200x100. The user does Image -
Scale Image that brings up a dialog with two GimpUnitEntries, one for
width and one for height. The user can toggle between preserving and
not preserving aspect ratio. With aspect ratio preserved, the user
focuses Width (= 200) and erases one of the zeroes. At the same time,
the Height (= 100) entry changes to 10. What method calls were
involved to make that happen? When you have a sequence diagram that
answers that, you have a design.

But, don't put too much time into aspect ratio preservation. In fact,
I would prefer if you put as little effort as possible into this right
now (except making sure not to make it impossible to extend the design
with it later). Let me explain why: There are a lot of things that
could be done on GimpUnitEntry. Let's list a few things:

 A The basic use case 'Enter a string in the form number unit
and have an interface that allows the pixel value with a given
resolution to be returned.
 B The GimpSizeEntryTable you talked about
 C Aspect ratio preservation between two GimpUnitEntries

At the end of the project, it is much better if you are 100% done with
A, and 0% on B and C, than if you hare 60% done with A and 20% done
with B and C. Code that is not delivered during the end of a GSoC
project has a tendency to either take a long time to hit upstream or
never does it at all. So we should work incrementally, first focus on
the basic use case A, then we can spend time on B and C.

To summarize, there are some things to sort out before we can say we
have a design. Once we have a design, we can start looking at writing
code. Now, of course, we probably won't get the design 100% right the
first time, it's an iterative process, but we should at least have an
initial design before we start coding.


 Additionally I set up a task schedule on
 http://tasktaste.com/projects/enni/gimpsizeentry and applied for a gnome
 git account, but it probably takes some time for it to be activated.

Good, being able to track progress is essential if we want this to be
a successful GSoC project. I do think however that you should increase
the resolution of the tasks. It will be hard to follow up progress on
an 8 week big task. Let's settle on an initial design before creating
more detailed tasks though.


 Also, since I'm using a Mac and tried to not having to use a virtual
 machine, I built git-gimp natively on osx (without X11) and with a patch
 that moves the menubar from the main window to the top of the screen
 (like other mac apps). It really was a horrible experience (took me a
 whole day), so I thought it would be nice to have a precompiled
 app-bundle. As far as I know, there are no official mac binaries, right?
 The only ones I found where using X11, which isn't very good. I could
 try to provide osx 

Re: [Gimp-developer] nonlinear revision control system for GIMP

2011-05-03 Thread Martin Nordholts
2011/5/3 Tim Chen ht.timc...@gmail.com:
 Hi Martin,

 It sounds like that there are other thoughts about how to implement the macro 
 system? During my GIMP hack last year, my impression was that macro recording 
 should be done in PDB. And I did not do so because not every functions went 
 through PDB, e.g. those stroke functions (please correct me if my memory did 
 not serve me right).

There have been discussions of other approaches than the Command
design pattern. Making use of the PDB somehow probably is a good idea,
although that won't work for things that a use can do but that w don't
have PDB calls for yet.

 In any case, the GIMP community helps me a lot and I do like to contribute 
 something back, i.e. integrate my system into GIMP core.

That sounds great. The best way to take in a large thing like this is
by doing it step by step. Divide your work into small commits that we
can take in upstream piece by piece without introducing any bugs or
regressions. Eventually you'll have the platform you need to land the
final parts that enables your work for users.

 / Martin

-- 

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GIMP 2.8 schedule on tasktaste.com
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Re: [Gimp-developer] [GSoC] GimpSizeEntry widget

2011-05-03 Thread Enrico Schröder

Hi Martin!

Martin Nordholts wrote:


* The sequence diagrams should be on the class interface i.e. method
level.
I will work on some more detailed diagrams, these were just less 
detailed overviews to illustrate what kind of classes I plan on using 
and what they do.

For example, in the simply entering two values sequence
diagram, what classes and method calls will be involved in order to
let GimpSizeEntry b know about GimpSizeEntry a? (I don't understand
why in that use case they need to know about each others value at all
though, they are independent, aren't they?)
They are independent as long as we don't want to preserve aspect ratio. 
Ok I guess I mixed two different use cases there ;). However, I plan on 
using only signals for two entries to communicate with each other. I 
thought the emit showed that. And the signals are getting emitted no 
matter the other entry does not do anything with it. The first entry 
can't know who does something in reaction to its signal, it just sends 
it whenever the user modifies the value.
What I want to avoid by that is the entries having some sort of pointer 
to each other, because it's more flexible for future enhancements (I'm 
thinking of the one-entry-for-width-and-height, as written in my 
application).

  * You should put some thought into what exactly happens during
enters value a, enter value in a new unit etc. You'll get a
GtkEditable::insert-text signal, but then what? Some kind of parsing
needs to take place. Take a look at GimpEevl which is a unit parser we
already have, resuing that would be ideal.

Will do, as I said the diagrams are just a rough overview.

  * In the Changing aspect ratio sequence diagram, a good design
would have an abstraction for the aspect ratio constraint, so that it
would be equally easy to have a constraint between two entries that
said entry_a = entry_b + 100 as it is to have entry_a = entry_b *
1.33.
Ok I haven't thought about the entry_a = entry_b + 100 case. If that 
should be considered then we indeed need a form of abstraction...




But, don't put too much time into aspect ratio preservation. In fact,
I would prefer if you put as little effort as possible into this right
now (except making sure not to make it impossible to extend the design
with it later).
I try to come up with a design that incorporates that. If we have that 
then it shouldn't be much work to do the actual implementation. I still 
think it's possible during that summer ;)

Good, being able to track progress is essential if we want this to be
a successful GSoC project. I do think however that you should increase
the resolution of the tasks. It will be hard to follow up progress on
an 8 week big task. Let's settle on an initial design before creating
more detailed tasks though.
I didn't make them finer-grained because I can't yet estimate how long 
each step will take. Will update as soon as the design is more complete.

  Also, since I'm using a Mac and tried to not having to use a virtual
  machine, I built git-gimp natively on osx (without X11) and with a patch
  that moves the menubar from the main window to the top of the screen
  (like other mac apps). It really was a horrible experience (took me a
  whole day), so I thought it would be nice to have a precompiled
  app-bundle. As far as I know, there are no official mac binaries, right?
  The only ones I found where using X11, which isn't very good. I could
  try to provide osx binaries of the current 2.7.2 and then 2.8 including
  patches for the menu bar and a nice theme.


Not quite sure I follow, how would precompiled binaries help? You'll
need to compile the code yourself anyway,won't you? Btw, as soon as we
have a feature branch, I am going to set up our continuous integration
server Jenkins (http://gimptest.flamingtext.com:8080/) to build
nightly tarballs of your work. That way it will be rather easy for
anyone to test your code.
This has nothing to do with my project, I already created a new thread 
for that. I just thought I maybe could provide OSX binaries as a 
byproduct of the day I spent compiling Gimp on Mac ;)


Regards,
Enrico

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