Re: [Gimp-developer] reporting bugs on builds
Hi, Henrik Brix Andersen wrote: in GNOME Bugzilla. The GIMP developers have no way of fixing a bug even if they know how it should be done. Personally I consider anyone who contributes their time to furthering the GIMP (including Jernej) a GIMP Developer. But seeing the waste amount of bugs filed primarily for win32 installers since we released 2.0.0 I am slowly starting to change my mind. Perhaps a '3rd party installer' or similar component should be added to the GIMP product. Bugs can then be re-assigned to that component instead of being resolved NOTGNOME. So - will I create the Windows-installer component with Jernej and the module owner? Cheers, Dave. -- David Neary, Lyon, France E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] reporting bugs on builds
Hi, On Sat, 2004-05-08 at 01:49, Sven Neumann wrote: Simon Budig [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: What about a component installers or binary packages where we can put the bugs that are related to a certain gimp distribution? If the maintainers of the installers or binary packages agree to watch bugzilla for their bugs then that's probably the best we can do. This would be a prerequisite for tracking any installer related bugs in GNOME Bugzilla, imho. Regards, Brix -- Henrik Brix Andersen [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] reporting bugs on builds
Hi, On Fri, 2004-05-07 at 17:50, Sven Neumann wrote: Because we can't do anything about the bugs. Nobody but the packager can. The situation would be different if the tools used to build the binary packages would be in GNOME CVS. That would certainly qualify the project for also using the bug tracker. But as long as people build GIMP using proprietary scripts that they don't publish anywhere, I am going to show no tolerance towards them. This was also my main argument against tracking any 3rd party installers in GNOME Bugzilla. The GIMP developers have no way of fixing a bug even if they know how it should be done. But seeing the waste amount of bugs filed primarily for win32 installers since we released 2.0.0 I am slowly starting to change my mind. Perhaps a '3rd party installer' or similar component should be added to the GIMP product. Bugs can then be re-assigned to that component instead of being resolved NOTGNOME. At least I think we should try it out and see how it works out. Regards, Brix -- Henrik Brix Andersen [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] reporting bugs on builds
Henrik Brix Andersen wrote: Hi, On Fri, 2004-05-07 at 17:50, Sven Neumann wrote: Because we can't do anything about the bugs. Nobody but the packager can. The situation would be different if the tools used to build the binary packages would be in GNOME CVS. That would certainly qualify the project for also using the bug tracker. But as long as people build GIMP using proprietary scripts that they don't publish anywhere, I am going to show no tolerance towards them. This was also my main argument against tracking any 3rd party installers in GNOME Bugzilla. The GIMP developers have no way of fixing a bug even if they know how it should be done. Maybe a requirement for tracking installers should be that the author has to create a comprehensive list of the components of the installer, including version numbers and the locations he got the components from. Additionally, a list of changes (installed files, registry keys, ...) done to the system could help, too. But seeing the waste amount of bugs filed primarily for win32 installers since we released 2.0.0 I am slowly starting to change my mind. Perhaps a '3rd party installer' or similar component should be added to the GIMP product. Bugs can then be re-assigned to that component instead of being resolved NOTGNOME. Um, don't you mix two things here? Of course, users who report bugs are using gimp binaries they got from somewhere. the huge amount of duplicated reports has other reasons. IMHO, reporting bugs in bugzilla without checking for duplicates is too easy, maybe all similiar reports should be displayed one after another and the user should have to click a next button. At least I think we should try it out and see how it works out. I agree. Michael -- The GIMP http://www.gimp.org| IRC: irc://irc.gimp.org/gimp Sodipodi http://sodipodi.sf.net | IRC: irc://irc.gimp.org/sodipodi ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] reporting bugs on builds
Hi, Branko Collin wrote: However, anyone who uses a pre-compiled build cannot know beforehand what part of the bugs are build related, and what part GIMP related. Especially MS Windows users, who may not (and should not!) have a concept of build versus source distribution to begin with, may find it difficult to make the distinction. Would it be useful to devise a system in which all users can file GIMP related bug reports, whether they have bearing only on the build they are using or on all of the GIMP? I definitely agree with that. The correct thing to do with bugs reported against the installer is, IMHO, to add jernej as a CC, set the component to Win32, and then leave it alone, and open. That way, Jernej can use our bug tracker, perhaps teach us a thing or two about windows along the way, and neither he nor our windows users feel like they aren't considered good enough to be in the GIMP crowd. Jernej's installers are a great service, and if we don't want him to stop (and I know I don't), and bit more tolerance is called for. Currently, we don't even tell people how they should report bugs against the installer, the bugs are just closed NOTGNOME. Of course, this would put the burden of triage on the GIMP developers who are currently doing that, but it might avoid reporters being scared away by curt WONTFIX replies. These bugs are already being triaged as RESOLVED NOTGNOME. Changing the component, adding a CC and leaving the bug open takes as much time, and is a lot friendlier. Cheers, Dave. -- Dave Neary [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] reporting bugs on builds
Dave Neary ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: Jernej's installers are a great service, and if we don't want him to stop (and I know I don't), and bit more tolerance is called for. Currently, we don't even tell people how they should report bugs against the installer, the bugs are just closed NOTGNOME. What about a component installers or binary packages where we can put the bugs that are related to a certain gimp distribution? From time to time we'd have to clean it up so that the bug count doesn't get out of control, but IMHO bugzilla might very well be the place to track these kind of external bugs. Bye, Simon -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://simon.budig.de/ ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] reporting bugs on builds
Hi, Branko Collin [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Of course, this would put the burden of triage on the GIMP developers who are currently doing that, but it might avoid reporters being scared away by curt WONTFIX replies. The reply is NOTGNOME and we usually ask the bug reporter to get in contact with Jernej or whoever built the binary package and report the problem there. IMO it's up to Jernej or whoever builds the binaries to setup a bug-tracker for it and to inform users that build problems should be reported there. That's what all other packagers of GIMP do as well. It certainly doesn't belong into GNOME Bugzilla. Sven ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] reporting bugs on builds
Hi, Simon Budig wrote: What about a component installers or binary packages where we can put the bugs that are related to a certain gimp distribution? Sure, I could do this. I'll wait to see what the feedback on this thread is first. Dave. -- Dave Neary [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] reporting bugs on builds
Hi, Sven Neumann wrote: Branko Collin [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Of course, this would put the burden of triage on the GIMP developers who are currently doing that, but it might avoid reporters being scared away by curt WONTFIX replies. The reply is NOTGNOME and we usually ask the bug reporter to get in contact with Jernej or whoever built the binary package and report the problem there. By we, you mean I, don't you? And today that hasn't happened at least once, the reply was simply Your bug report is about the installer then and thus does not belong into this bug-tracker. IMO it's up to Jernej or whoever builds the binaries to setup a bug-tracker for it and to inform users that build problems should be reported there. That's what all other packagers of GIMP do as well. It certainly doesn't belong into GNOME Bugzilla. All the other packagers of the GIMP make money from it, and employ people to do this type of thing, and have dedicated machines. Jernej makes binaries in his spare time, and the least we could do is show a little tolerance on this issue. I don't see why bugs like these certainly don't beling in GNOME Bugzilla. It would be nice if you could explain why this is so obviously true. Cheers, Dave. -- Dave Neary [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] reporting bugs on builds
Hi, Dave Neary [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: By we, you mean I, don't you? And today that hasn't happened at least once, the reply was simply Your bug report is about the installer then and thus does not belong into this bug-tracker. Well, I knew that I was dealing with Branko, who should know better. The response is different when innocent users hit bugzilla. All the other packagers of the GIMP make money from it, and employ people to do this type of thing, and have dedicated machines. Jernej makes binaries in his spare time, and the least we could do is show a little tolerance on this issue. I am not opposed against helping Jernej with this if he asks for help. But I don't see why he should be treated differently in the first place. I don't see why bugs like these certainly don't beling in GNOME Bugzilla. It would be nice if you could explain why this is so obviously true. Because we can't do anything about the bugs. Nobody but the packager can. The situation would be different if the tools used to build the binary packages would be in GNOME CVS. That would certainly qualify the project for also using the bug tracker. But as long as people build GIMP using proprietary scripts that they don't publish anywhere, I am going to show no tolerance towards them. Sven ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] reporting bugs on builds
On 7 May 2004, at 17:50, Sven Neumann wrote: Dave Neary [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: By we, you mean I, don't you? And today that hasn't happened at least once, the reply was simply Your bug report is about the installer then and thus does not belong into this bug-tracker. Well, I knew that I was dealing with Branko, who should know better. The response is different when innocent users hit bugzilla. That I should know better is true but for one thing, and also it is not a good argument in its own right. I should know better when I am absolutely certain that a bug is purely restricted to a certain build. Without using a certain GIMP version in at least two different incarnations, I cannot tell with 100% certainty that some bug is strictly related to a certain build. Also, 'dealing with Branko' is not a concept known to 'innocent users' who stumble on your comments when searching for existing reports for their bugs, and may conclude that this is how you talk to everybody. You could have used e-mail to tell me that I should know better. -- branko collin [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] reporting bugs on builds
Dave Neary wrote: Sven Neumann wrote: Branko Collin [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Of course, this would put the burden of triage on the GIMP developers who are currently doing that, but it might avoid reporters being scared away by curt WONTFIX replies. The reply is NOTGNOME and we usually ask the bug reporter to get in contact with Jernej or whoever built the binary package and report the problem there. By we, you mean I, don't you? And today that hasn't happened at least once, the reply was simply Your bug report is about the installer then and thus does not belong into this bug-tracker. Well, you can't prevent anyone from reporting bugs, but the quality of the replies can be improved. Is it possible to have some kind of canned replies in bugzilla? So that when resolving a bug against e.g. the win32 installer as NOTGNOME, an explantory text is just one click away? IMO it's up to Jernej or whoever builds the binaries to setup a bug-tracker for it and to inform users that build problems should be reported there. That's what all other packagers of GIMP do as well. It certainly doesn't belong into GNOME Bugzilla. All the other packagers of the GIMP make money from it, and employ people to do this type of thing, and have dedicated machines. Jernej makes binaries in his spare time, and the least we could do is show a little tolerance on this issue. I'm not sure if I agree or not, but I'd like to see some requirements tied to featuring installers in bugzilla. This isn't directed against anyone directly, but a clear set of rules should be created. Do you want e.g. WinGIMP or MacGIMP to use bugzilla.gnome.org? What about other Free win32 installers of GIMP? I don't see why bugs like these certainly don't beling in GNOME Bugzilla. It would be nice if you could explain why this is so obviously true. If you think that Sven wrongly resolved bugs as NOTGNOME, please list them. Then it would be possible to discuss the sepcific cases. Michael -- NEU : GMX Internet.FreeDSL Ab sofort DSL-Tarif ohne Grundgebühr: http://www.gmx.net/dsl ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] reporting bugs on builds
Hi, Simon Budig [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Dave Neary ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: Jernej's installers are a great service, and if we don't want him to stop (and I know I don't), and bit more tolerance is called for. Currently, we don't even tell people how they should report bugs against the installer, the bugs are just closed NOTGNOME. What about a component installers or binary packages where we can put the bugs that are related to a certain gimp distribution? If the maintainers of the installers or binary packages agree to watch bugzilla for their bugs then that's probably the best we can do. Sven ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
