Am Mon, 2001-10-08 um 03.53 schrieb 1002506022:
gettext and po
files are a dead end for modular applications because they only behave
well for monolithic and small applications; both of which GIMP
definitely isn't and for sure even less will be in the future.
Evolution certainly isn't
Heya prof,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (2001-10-08 at 1526.45 +0200):
Yes, and the point is? Evolution is using XML and xml-i18n-tools, but
it has the slight advantage over GIMP that it's heavily relying on
GNOME components for remote activation and components. Though I'm using
it it's a huge
Hi,
Daniel could you please take the discussion about UTF-8 and editors
somewhere else?! Then, if you want to propose something that is GIMP
related, please take your time to write up an elaborate proposal and
try to explain your ideas in a way that allows us to discuss them
in a constructive
For what it's worth, here is my opinion on the Tip of the Day messages
and their translations. In summary: keep it simple! I know that
being the one who introduced these tips in the Gimp does not grant me
any special priviledges (especially since I am not translating them)
but it looks like the
On Mon, 08 Oct 2001, Sven Neumann wrote:
Daniel could you please take the discussion about UTF-8 and editors
somewhere else?! Then, if you want to propose something that is GIMP
related, please take your time to write up an elaborate proposal and
try to explain your ideas in a way that
Hi,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] ( Marc) (A.) (Lehmann ) writes:
On Mon, Oct 08, 2001 at 06:53:24PM +0200, Raphael Quinet [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
As Sven already mentioned, the solution would consist of adding a new
I would also agree that the header idea is best, HOWEVER, Sven
surprisingly
Am Mon, 2001-10-08 um 17.46 schrieb 1002555985:
Which GNOME components does GIMP use?
None, that's the point. :)
--
Servus,
Daniel
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Replying to myself since I forgot some things...
Christian Rose wrote:
While enforcing the use of UTF-8 solves the encodings problem, it is not
feasible for many other reasons. One is simply the lack of support in
many editors and many other text processing tools (and terminals and so
on).
Hi,
Daniel Egger [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Am Sam, 2001-10-06 um 19.05 schrieb 1002387943:
That wasn't my point. I meant that it might be sensible for tips
(instead of introducing the header kludge) and for plugin descriptions
because it makes them more versatile and not bound to
Am Sam, 2001-10-06 um 22.59 schrieb 1002401996:
To use gettext on has to have a file with C syntax;
really???
I've heard there are Perl hacks as well. :)
which would be easy, nice and probably very small.
Yes, but not very versatile...
anyways, if we use another format (xml) and have
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (2001-10-07 at 1435.12 +0200):
Am Sam, 2001-10-06 um 22.30 schrieb 1002400250:
It seems that all any decent site would need would be this:
?xml version=1.0?
gimp-tips
tip
tip-number
0
/tip-number
This is the first trip.
Hi,
Daniel Egger [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
If we go for XML (which is definitely a good idea) we should use it
also for our config files and drop the homebrewn parser. Maybe we can
get away with simply using the new glib-2.0 functions instead of adding
an dependency on libxml or similar.
Hi,
Carol Spears [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
It seems that all any decent site would need would be this:
?xml version=1.0?
gimp-tips
tip
tip-number
0
/tip-number
This is the first trip.
/tip
tip
tip-number
1
Am Son, 2001-10-07 um 15.32 schrieb 1002461554:
Dia uses intltool/xml-i18n-tools for sheet files.
That's new then. They didn't when I was translating the sheets.
Because one of the fundamentals of easy translation is simply to have
the original text handy. This is so you can easily compare
Hi,
Daniel Egger [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
First of all we should write an schema to make it validateable.
XML schema has only become a W3C recommendation lately and is
probably far from being finally standardized. AFAIK there are only
few (if any at all) usable tools out there that can
Am Son, 2001-10-07 um 16.42 schrieb 1002465752:
I'm not not exagerating. A typical tip consists of multiple lines (2 to 5)
and you can't translate them line by line. My typical emacs setup shows
about 42 lines, while the typical distance between the original tip and the
translation will be
Am Son, 2001-10-07 um 17.25 schrieb 1002468356:
XML schema has only become a W3C recommendation lately and is
probably far from being finally standardized. AFAIK there are only
few (if any at all) usable tools out there that can validate XML
schema. I think you meant to say DTD here ?!
A
On Sun, Oct 07, 2001 at 02:46:35PM +0200, Daniel Egger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
really???
I've heard there are Perl hacks as well. :)
There are hacks for a lot of other languages/environments ;) The
shortcoming of gettetx lies not int he parsing and input format...
which would be easy,
Sven ...
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (2001-10-07 at 1656.37 +0200):
hmm, wouldn't it be nicer to use the following instead ?
?xml version=1.0?
gimp-tips
tip number=0
This is the first trip.
/tip
tip number=1
This is the second trip and it has bbold/b text.
/tip
I think that regardless of what the original format is, translators
should be given and work with po files. Christian Rose is right in his
reasons. I have a few more to add.
1) The translator can't accidentally edit the wrong place and mess up.
2) It is what translators are used to working with
Daniel Egger wrote:
Also, one important drawback of keeping all translations in one file in
CVS, and forcing translators to edit this file, is that it gets almost
impossible to verify the integrity of translations. As a translator and
creator and maintainer of the translation, I feel that
Daniel Egger wrote:
Whatever the solution regarding GIMP tips turns out to be, translators
want to be able to translate them from within po files. I hope everyone
has agreed on that :)
not really.
Okay, but that really makes you an exception among translators. This
discussion isn't new,
Am Son, 2001-10-07 um 18.29 schrieb 1002472199:
Yes, but not very versatile...
Why? It contains the tips and a minimum amoutn of clutter. If you equate
evrsatile == xml because everybody claims to support it I disagree
completely.
No, but unlike compiled catalog files xml files can be
Am Son, 2001-10-07 um 18.43 schrieb 1002473012:
Then you should take a new look. It certainly does today.
Fine with me.
Why should I have to use a special XML editor?
You don't have to, that's the trick.
How does the editor know what language I want to edit,
Easy, you tell it.
and how
Daniel Egger wrote:
Why should I have to use a special XML editor?
You don't have to, that's the trick.
Ok, I got the impression from your message that this was the case.
How does the editor know what language I want to edit,
Easy, you tell it.
So this is an extra step that I have
Daniel Egger wrote:
I think you need to
consider the experience that menthos has with this situation. If we
consider what we might end up with in the future (many more tips, more
complicated tips, more languages), it makes sense to plan po right now.
I'm never planning for now but
On Mon, Oct 08, 2001 at 03:39:53AM +0200, Christian Rose [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Native support for UTF-8 is uncommon and of course that is bad and
Sorry? my mailer supports it (mutt) my editor supports it (vim), my terminal
supports it (xterm), my irc-client supports it (epic), my browser(s)
pcg@goof.com ( Marc) (A.) (Lehmann ) wrote:
Native support for UTF-8 is uncommon and of course that is bad and
Sorry? my mailer supports it (mutt) my editor supports it (vim), my terminal
supports it (xterm), my irc-client supports it (epic), my browser(s) suipport
it (lynx, netscape,
On Mon, Oct 08, 2001 at 05:00:27AM +0200, Christian Rose [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
My mailer doesn't (pine)
pine doesn't even parse rfc822 addresses (like mine) - let's face it, pine
is the worst mailer around with regards to features, standards compliance
etc. Everybody is free to use it, but
On 6 Oct 2001, Daniel Egger wrote:
Am Die, 2001-10-02 um 19.14 schrieb 1002042874:
there is probably no need for XML as there are no attributes etc.
If you use XML for texts like tips or dialogparts then attributes
are being used for specifying the language the text is in.
We can also
Hi,
Daniel Egger [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
If you use XML for texts like tips or dialogparts then attributes
are being used for specifying the language the text is in.
A tip might look like this:
tip lang=deNiemals GIMP schließen/tip
tip lang=enNever close the GIMP/tip
DIA for
Hi,
Nathan C Summers [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
We can also use XML for its original purpose -- a markup language. Even
just adding an emphasis tag can allow tip writers to be emmuch/em more
expressive.
GTK+-2.0 allows some simple markup to be applied to labels and other
text areas without
perhaps I'm imaging something wrong here, but I think graphics would be
overkill for the tips. Stuff like this belongs to the help pages if you
ask me. It would probably help to allow links to help pages in the tips
dialog and it would also be much simpler to implement than text flow
On Sat, Oct 06, 2001 at 11:23:11AM +0200, Sven Neumann wrote:
It's a lot more versatile then the header approach with my lovely
friend gettext since the information is not spread over several
files which need to be generated, compiled and installed. If we had
more tips we could even
On Sat, Oct 06, 2001 at 02:06:15AM -0600, Nathan C Summers wrote:
We can also use XML for its original purpose -- a markup language. Even
just adding an emphasis tag can allow tip writers to be emmuch/em more
expressive.
That's an abuse of a tag. em is a stylistic tag from the HTML days,
On Sat, 2001-10-06 at 12:49, Daniel Egger wrote:
On Sat, Oct 06, 2001 at 02:06:15AM -0600, Nathan C Summers wrote:
We can also use XML for its original purpose -- a markup language. Even
just adding an emphasis tag can allow tip writers to be emmuch/em more
expressive.
That's an
On 5 Oct 2001, at 16:06, Carol Spears wrote:
Okay, everything I know about XML I learned by osmosis (ie, i slept
with XML in a Nutshell under my pillow), but XML seems to make sense
and be a lot less rigid than SGML.
To the contrary, XML is way more rigid than SGML, that is its
defining
Heya Rockwalrus,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (2001-10-06 at 0206.15 -0600):
But I was thinking of adding the ability to have small graphics in the tip
of the day. Am I the only one that finds it odd that GIMP is an emimage
manipulation/em program, yet the tips are all in text? Even the
database
Am Sam, 2001-10-06 um 14.33 schrieb 1002371616:
That wasn't my point. I meant that it might be sensible for tips
(instead of introducing the header kludge)
What is 'the header kludge'? I never got that bit.
To use gettext on has to have a file with C syntax; the idea is
to have a header
Am Sam, 2001-10-06 um 12.51 schrieb 1002365476:
No prof. You've got it wrong. em means emphasis. It means the text
should be given some sort of emphasis. The stylesheets then determine
what that emphasis is. (italics, color change, etc.)
No, em is HTMLism. There's no em in DocBook for
Am Sam, 2001-10-06 um 19.05 schrieb 1002387943:
That wasn't my point. I meant that it might be sensible for tips
(instead of introducing the header kludge) and for plugin descriptions
because it makes them more versatile and not bound to the distribution.
I was referring to the tips
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (2001-10-06 at 1125.23 -0400):
Didn't Clippy get fired?
Maybe next version should have Wilberpy as helper. The concept image
was nice: I see you want to draw a straight line.
/me runs
GSR
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Sven,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (2001-10-06 at 1933.28 +0200):
Hi,
If we really want to use the file in other places (web-sites), someone
involved there needs to come up with a proposal for the format.
It seems that all any decent site would need would be this:
?xml version=1.0?
gimp-tips
On Sat, Oct 06, 2001 at 06:06:19PM +0200, Guillermo S. Romero / Familia Romero wrote:
Maybe next version should have Wilberpy as helper. The concept image
was nice: I see you want to draw a straight line.
Or rather: I see you erase. Let me erase the rest of the image for you,
then save. *g*
/*
On Sat, Oct 06, 2001 at 07:33:28PM +0200, Sven Neumann [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
have done it before. I can see at least one more advantages of using an
external file: The tips don't stay in memory all the time. So we should
probably go for it.
(just a sidenote: if tips were compiled-in and
Hi,
Christian Rose [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Hmm, would it be possible to make GIMP tips translatable in a po file in
the future? That would probably ease translation, since gettext has some
nice features: it's easy to compare the original message and the
translation, easy to spot messages
Sven Neumann wrote:
Hmm, would it be possible to make GIMP tips translatable in a po file in
the future? That would probably ease translation, since gettext has some
nice features: it's easy to compare the original message and the
translation, easy to spot messages that changed or new
it would matter if you could name an advantage it would give us. I don't
mind adding a simple XML-parser to GIMP-1.4 since it's pretty simple
using GMarkup from GLib-2.0, but I don't want to do so without a good
reason.
hmm.. XML could be quickly converted to HTML and used on the web
Hi Rebecca,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (2001-10-05 at 2030.20 +0200):
it would matter if you could name an advantage it would give us. I don't
mind adding a simple XML-parser to GIMP-1.4 since it's pretty simple
using GMarkup from GLib-2.0, but I don't want to do so without a good
reason.
Hello again Rebecca,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (2001-10-05 at 2147.11 +0200):
XML is supposed to make information more portable into the future,
right?
GIMP is being used in classrooms lately, it would be nice if we have the
option to print all gimp documentation in any form we should
Am Fre, 2001-10-05 um 21.47 schrieb 1002311231:
It is like the GIMP help. We write the help in DocBook SGML.
It is SGML right now but is written with XML compatibility in mind
so we would simply need to flip a switch (in every file that is)
to have full XML.
It can be converted to cool
Am Die, 2001-10-02 um 19.14 schrieb 1002042874:
No, as you say, a header file is probably the easiest solution,
Actually if there was an XML parser this would be the simplest solution.
It is just that we'd need a parser and I haven't evaluated the GMarkup
part of the new glib yet.
there is
Daniel Egger wrote:
No, as you say, a header file is probably the easiest solution,
Actually if there was an XML parser this would be the simplest solution.
It is just that we'd need a parser and I haven't evaluated the GMarkup
part of the new glib yet.
Ok.
there is probably no need
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