On 11/20/2014 06:53 AM, Elle Stone wrote:
On 11/20/2014 04:34 AM, Elle Stone wrote:
Unbounded sRGB is NOT HDR scene-referred. If you guys would actually do
a little reading and try to understand what you are talking about, this
whole conversation could have been over a long time ago.
This
On Fri, Nov 21, 2014 at 5:05 PM, Elle Stone wrote:
For personal reasons (time constraints), I'm at least temporarily
unsubscribing from various mailing lists, including this one.
GIMP is amazing and I feel very honored that you all have allowed me to work
with you on GIMP color management.
On Fri, Nov 21, 2014 at 2:05 PM, Elle Stone
ellest...@ninedegreesbelow.com wrote:
Again, my apologies for being snippy. Hopefully I haven't bored you all to
tears trying to explain problems with editing in the unbounded sRGB color
space.
For personal reasons (time constraints), I'm at least
On 11/21/2014 09:43 AM, Øyvind Kolås wrote:
On Fri, Nov 21, 2014 at 2:05 PM, Elle Stone
ellest...@ninedegreesbelow.com wrote:
Again, my apologies for being snippy. Hopefully I haven't bored you all to
tears trying to explain problems with editing in the unbounded sRGB color
space.
For personal
First, in spite of the intensity of this discussion, I appreciate it.
Thanks to all contributors for your efforts to make it clear.
A simple question, which may have been answered already and I may have
missed (if so, a pointer will do).
What is the advantage of using unbounded sRGB instead of
On 11/19/2014 06:13 PM, Simon Budig wrote:
Hi Elle.
Elle Stone (ellest...@ninedegreesbelow.com) wrote:
In case you don't understand this, HDR sRGB data is still *bounded* by the
sRGB xy chromaticities. It's only unbounded along the Y axis. There are NO
negative channel values in HDR sRGB
On 11/19/2014 06:20 PM, Jon Nordby wrote:
On 19 November 2014 23:57, Elle Stone ellest...@ninedegreesbelow.com
mailto:ellest...@ninedegreesbelow.com wrote:
In case you don't understand this, HDR sRGB data is still *bounded*
by the sRGB xy chromaticities. It's only unbounded along the
On 11/19/2014 10:47 PM, Simon Budig wrote:
Since a few questions have popped up on IRC and it really is a weird
concept to grasp I thought I'd expand a bit on the color math that is
being discussed here. Sorry it is so long, I hope it is somewhat
entertaining though :)
Most of what you said
On Thu, Nov 20, 2014 at 10:42 AM, Elle Stone
ellest...@ninedegreesbelow.com wrote:
On 11/19/2014 10:47 PM, Simon Budig wrote:
Since a few questions have popped up on IRC and it really is a weird
concept to grasp I thought I'd expand a bit on the color math that is
being discussed here. Sorry
On 11/20/2014 05:13 AM, Mikael Magnusson wrote:
On Thu, Nov 20, 2014 at 10:42 AM, Elle Stone
ellest...@ninedegreesbelow.com wrote:
On 11/19/2014 10:47 PM, Simon Budig wrote:
Since a few questions have popped up on IRC and it really is a weird
concept to grasp I thought I'd expand a bit on the
On Thu, Nov 20, 2014 at 9:42 AM, Elle Stone
ellest...@ninedegreesbelow.com wrote:
Using unbounded sRGB as a universal color space for image editing is a
really bad idea
There has been no plan for using unbounded sRGB as a universal color
space in GEGL, not since the introduction of a
On 11/20/2014 05:17 AM, Øyvind Kolås wrote:
On Thu, Nov 20, 2014 at 9:42 AM, Elle Stone
ellest...@ninedegreesbelow.com wrote:
Using unbounded sRGB as a universal color space for image editing is a
really bad idea
There has been no plan for using unbounded sRGB as a universal color
space in
On 11/20/2014 04:34 AM, Elle Stone wrote:
Unbounded sRGB is NOT HDR scene-referred. If you guys would actually do
a little reading and try to understand what you are talking about, this
whole conversation could have been over a long time ago.
This came out a great deal more snippy than I
Simon Budig wrote:
We need to make sure two things:
a) upon import of an image the userRGB-format-descriptor within the
images context needs to be set up to refer to the chromaticies of the
source image.
b) whenever a chromaticity dependent operation works on the images data
the
On 11/18/2014 03:05 AM, Michael Henning wrote
Now, please explain this to me with a straight answer: Why is it so
insanely important to know what color space an operation happens in,
in a situation where it*by definition* does not matter, that you are
willing to waste hours of your time and
On Wed, Nov 19, 2014 at 7:31 PM, Elle Stone
ellest...@ninedegreesbelow.com wrote a lot of text that has been
trimmed away...
I am only going to reply to the issues you seem to have with color
image processing algorithms operating in CIE Lab. My general stance is
that if at all possible,
On 11/19/2014 03:27 PM, Øyvind Kolås wrote:
On Wed, Nov 19, 2014 at 7:31 PM, Elle Stone
ellest...@ninedegreesbelow.com wrote a lot of text that has been
trimmed away...
Hmm.
I worked hard to explain why even for chomaticitiy independent editing
operations the RGB data shouldn't be converted
On Wed, Nov 19, 2014 at 9:28 PM, Elle Stone
ellest...@ninedegreesbelow.com wrote:
On Wed, Nov 19, 2014 at 7:31 PM, Elle Stone
ellest...@ninedegreesbelow.com wrote a lot of text that has been
trimmed away...
Hmm.
I worked hard to explain why even for chomaticitiy independent editing
On 11/19/2014 04:47 PM, Øyvind Kolås wrote:
On Wed, Nov 19, 2014 at 9:28 PM, Elle Stone
ellest...@ninedegreesbelow.com wrote:
On Wed, Nov 19, 2014 at 7:31 PM, Elle Stone
ellest...@ninedegreesbelow.com wrote a lot of text that has been
trimmed away...
Hmm.
I worked hard to explain why even
On 19 November 2014 23:57, Elle Stone ellest...@ninedegreesbelow.com
wrote:
In case you don't understand this, HDR sRGB data is still *bounded* by the
sRGB xy chromaticities. It's only unbounded along the Y axis. There are NO
negative channel values in HDR sRGB data unless the *user* chooses
Hi Elle.
Elle Stone (ellest...@ninedegreesbelow.com) wrote:
Whether to *ever* use unbounded sRGB chromaticities to perform edits on
UserRGB data is NOT AN IMPLEMENTATION DETAIL.
Unbounded sRGB is a mistake, pure and simple, *unless* the data is intended
by the USER to be HDR sRGB data.
It
Since a few questions have popped up on IRC and it really is a weird
concept to grasp I thought I'd expand a bit on the color math that is
being discussed here. Sorry it is so long, I hope it is somewhat
entertaining though :)
Simon Budig (si...@budig.de) wrote:
I think you are missing that
On Mon, Nov 17, 2014 at 11:39 PM, Gez lis...@ohweb.com.ar wrote:
P.s.: If you think this discussion is a waste of your time and my time,
feel free to skip an answer. I don't think it's a waste of time at all,
it's developer/user interaction regarding important aspects of the tool.
Do you
On 11/17/2014 06:56 PM, Simon Budig wrote:
Oh, I was under the assumption that AdobeRGB had well defined
chromaticies. If that is not the case then please consider my example
moot. I am well aware that dealing with color profiles most definitely
is not my area of expertise.
It absolutely does
: gimp-user-l...@gnome.org ; gimp-developer-list@gnome.org
Subject: Re: [Gimp-developer] [Gimp-user] Time to fork BABL and GEGL
On 11/17/2014 07:32 PM, Ed . wrote:
Elle,
If you don't understand the difference between a design detail, and an
implementation detail, you need to either a) go away
] [Gimp-user] Time to fork BABL and GEGL
On 11/17/2014 07:32 PM, Ed . wrote:
Elle,
If you don't understand the difference between a design detail, and an
implementation detail, you need to either a) go away and get to
understand that difference; or b) stop commenting. I am neutral as to
which
On Tue, Nov 18, 2014 at 6:27 PM, Ed . wrote:
Great! Glad to hear it!
Please prove to us
If you have personal issues with any of the list members, I strongly
advice taking it off-list.
We'd like to keep the interaction professional, thank you.
Alex
On 11/18/2014 03:05 AM, Michael Henning wrote:
On Mon, Nov 17, 2014 at 11:39 PM, Gez lis...@ohweb.com.ar wrote:
P.s.: If you think this discussion is a waste of your time and my time,
feel free to skip an answer. I don't think it's a waste of time at all,
it's developer/user interaction
On 11/18/2014 11:00 AM, Elle Stone wrote:
Convincing the babl/GEGL/GIMP devs of anything regarding color
management has never been easy. For example, in 2013 I tried to explain
why there is a difference between device Y vs ICC profile D50-adapted Y:
*
As a small aside...
Alexandre Prokoudine (alexandre.prokoud...@gmail.com) wrote:
We'd like to keep the interaction professional, thank you.
I'd like to ask everyone involved in this discussion to remove
the gimp-user mailinglist from the CC-list. The level of this discussion
really is hardcore
On Tue, Nov 18, 2014 at 7:00 PM, Elle Stone wrote:
Michael Henning did understand and did make appropriate changes to babl's
hard-coded sRGB Y values. But I doubt whether any of the other devs
understood; if they did, babl wouldn't still use D65 device sRGB to convert
to XYZ before converting
In keeping with Simon's request, I'm not copying the user list.
On 11/18/2014 11:16 AM, Alexandre Prokoudine wrote:
On Tue, Nov 18, 2014 at 7:00 PM, Elle Stone wrote:
Michael Henning did understand and did make appropriate changes to babl's
hard-coded sRGB Y values. But I doubt whether any of
On 11/16/2014 05:18 PM, Øyvind Kolås wrote:
On Sun, Nov 16, 2014 at 9:01 PM, Elle Stone
ellest...@ninedegreesbelow.com wrote:
Do you understand that when I say that Multiply is a chromaticity-dependent
editing operation, I don't just mean the Multiply layer blend mode? that in
fact *all*
Hi Elle.
The following is my understanding, when pippin answers his answers have
more authority than mine.
Elle Stone (ellest...@ninedegreesbelow.com) wrote:
Putting aside coding considerations that might affect other software that
uses babl and GEGL, here's my understanding of your current
On 11/17/2014 10:46 AM, Simon Budig wrote:
Hi Elle.
The following is my understanding, when pippin answers his answers have
more authority than mine.
Hi Simon,
I appreciate your answers, but the points you make aren't actually
relevant to the questions that I wanted to ask Pippin. This is
On Mon, Nov 17, 2014 at 10:03 PM, Elle Stone
ellest...@ninedegreesbelow.com wrote:
On 11/17/2014 10:46 AM, Simon Budig wrote:
Hi Elle.
The following is my understanding, when pippin answers his answers have
more authority than mine.
Hi Simon,
I appreciate your answers, but the points
On 11/17/2014 05:41 PM, Mikael Magnusson wrote:
On Mon, Nov 17, 2014 at 10:03 PM, Elle Stone
ellest...@ninedegreesbelow.com wrote:
On 11/17/2014 10:46 AM, Simon Budig wrote:
I don't think that this is decided yet, I actually consider it unlikely
at the moment. I think it might be more likely
Elle Stone (ellest...@ninedegreesbelow.com) wrote:
A slight preface here. I don't consider it important to focus on the
*storage* of the pixel data, as in the actual bulk memory for the pixel
data.
If you choose to *store* the user's RGB data using chromaticities not of
user's choosing,
On Mon, Nov 17, 2014 at 11:56 PM, Simon Budig si...@budig.de wrote:
If there were chromaticies for a given userRGB which are widely used
in a lot of real world applications, then it might make sense to support
them in a similiar way like we currently do for the sRGB primaries.
Nah, we only
, November 17, 2014 11:52 PM
To: Mikael Magnusson
Cc: gimp-user-l...@gnome.org ; gimp-developer-list@gnome.org
Subject: Re: [Gimp-developer] [Gimp-user] Time to fork BABL and GEGL
On 11/17/2014 05:41 PM, Mikael Magnusson wrote:
On Mon, Nov 17, 2014 at 10:03 PM, Elle Stone
ellest
El mar, 18-11-2014 a las 00:32 +, Ed . escribió:
Elle,
If you don't understand the difference between a design detail, and
an
implementation detail, you need to either a) go away and get to
understand
that difference; or b) stop commenting. I am neutral as to which you
choose.
Ed
El lun, 17-11-2014 a las 23:41 +0100, Mikael Magnusson escribió:
The above two things are implementation details as Simon said. If you
don't understand this, then please don't write long articles full of
misinformation that get widely quoted. Your answers suggest you didn't
even understand
On Mon, Nov 17, 2014 at 8:48 PM, Gez lis...@ohweb.com.ar wrote:
If chromaticity independent RGB operations request for bablRGB or
userRGB doesn't seem a mere implementation detail. I think it's a valid
question to ask why requesting for bablRGB when the mechanism for
userRGB will be available.
El lun, 17-11-2014 a las 21:19 -0500, Michael Henning escribió:
On Mon, Nov 17, 2014 at 8:48 PM, Gez lis...@ohweb.com.ar wrote:
If chromaticity independent RGB operations request for bablRGB or
userRGB doesn't seem a mere implementation detail. I think it's a valid
question to ask why
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