Re: [Gimp-developer] A letter of complaint
Hello Akira, On Mon, 23 Jul 2012 10:15:41 -0700 (PDT) Akira Tanaka artfoundr...@yahoo.com wrote: To all the developers of GIMP software... In the five years that I've used your program for my own creative purposes, I've dealt with some of the good aspects of GIMP and the negative aspects of it as well. The variety in brushes was good and the option to create animated GIFs with ease is a nice addition as well. However, there have been many negative aspects that have given me so much grief with this program. I've dealt with the instability of tablet devices being added on to my computer when I use GIMP. The times that GIMP has crashed and so many irretrievable hours of work lost only fueled my rage against this program. But after accessing an already usable file only to get an error message that doesn't make any sense, that was it. That was the straw that broke the camel's back. After five years of putting up with this mediocre excuse for a software, it's time for me to hold my hands high and say enough is enough. I feel like I've been put through something and this is the breaking point. A software that crashes on you and then has the audacity to refuse a direct order makes for a truly negative experience. This is it. I've had it. I will never use GIMP software again for as long as I live. I know you have some sort of bureaucracy set up to review letters from anonymous users. There is a chance you will reject this letter but if that's the case, I'm willing to give you these parting words. GIMP is, without a doubt, the most unreliable, poorly programmed, pathetic excuse for a software program ever conceived by a human being. That is all. If you took the time to read this, you have my thanks. If you just carelessly rejected this without even looking into the letter, you can all go fuck yourselves. Maybe you could: - have reported way sooner your crash experiences, (making more detailed reports, getting support and probably getting fixes as well!), - have complained sooner about the Gimp in a general manner (5 years? woooh!), - adapted (and improved) your work habits (save your work, save frequently if you know that the software is unstable), - changed for another piece of software earlier. You surely faced issues while using the Gimp. You could have done a better work yourself, for your own sake and by contributing to the Gimp community way before going nuts like this and sending a complaint that now almost lose credibility. Regards, -- wwp signature.asc Description: PGP signature ___ gimp-developer-list mailing list gimp-developer-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer-list
Re: [Gimp-developer] A letter of complaint
On Mon, Jul 23, 2012 at 11:37 PM, Akira Tanaka artfoundr...@yahoo.com wrote: Sorry if I was a wee bit too harsh about GIMP. I was in a bad mood that morning. Yeah, I've heard a lot of horror stories about Windows ME. Never had the (dis)pleasure of using it but I suppose... Well, that's understandable. Everyone has a bad day every once in a while. We'd appreciate it if you didn't take it out on us though - we really are trying to make a good image editor. If you can imagine, we certainly don't intend the GIMP to crash. Now that you're in a better mood, if you were to post a message with more details on the problem and less yelling, we might be able to help you out. (Though if you really do want to stick with the I will never use GIMP software again for as long as I live thing, then that's also fine - it's no skin off my teeth.) Make sure you include the version of the GIMP you're using, what operating system you're using, anything in specific that seems to trigger the crash, and any other details you can think of. You also might want to start a new thread - there are probably several people ignoring this one. -- drawoc P.S. You forgot to hit reply all, so your last message didn't get sent to the mailing list. ___ gimp-developer-list mailing list gimp-developer-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer-list
Re: [Gimp-developer] A letter of complaint
It would also be helpful to know the individual's tendencies towards usage of development versions during their difficulties. A dev version would certainly be a strong candidate for crashes and should never be expected to perform properly in a production environment. On another note: I can look back fondly at all the times I lost work in Photo$hop. Frequent saves were usually my only saving grace. Except of course when PS would crash during the save. Then all was lost. Effort had to be put into version saving as a work-around. At the time, I really had nobody to blame but myself since Adobe clearly stated that saving across a network was not supported behavior. Back then, Apple's PowerPC's were the norm, 1gig drives were about as big as they came and the files we were working were 314res (8000) ppi for 8x10 LVT film-recorder output on transparency and negative films. External drives were slw, too small for the files we were working. We needed every bit of free scratch disk to work the files, so saving them locally was not an option. Even with the potential for crashes and corrupted scan lines, saving to the network was a risk we felt we had to take. The learning experience brought realizations that bad things happen that are not within our control. What we could control is how we responded to the situation, what we did to work around the potential for the issue to happen again, and the use of careful note taking so that proper bug reports could be submitted to Adobe when appropriate. After all, devs can't fix a problem they are not aware of. Much like complaining about a three month old pothole on your street. It's not like the transportation department has some magic fairy that automatically tells them when a pot hole appears! Step up, make a polite phone call and the work will get done. Have an issue? Report it Bug won't go away? work around it. Don't like the way something works? Find something else that does. Taking responsibility for my own stubbornness, lack of follow through and the results they create has removed more stress in my life than just about anything else. When I stopped blaming others for the pain in my life I could have done something about, my life change immensely towards the positive. IMO the OP is acting as if they are the victim of the developers and their code. When someone plays the role of the victim, they surrender the power to change their situation. It's OK to stand in the pile of poo you were reluctant to get out of, but please don't splash any on the rest of us. On 07/23/2012 11:15 AM, Akira Tanaka wrote: To all the developers of GIMP software... In the five years that I've used your program for my own creative purposes, I've dealt with some of the good aspects of GIMP and the negative aspects of it as well. The variety in brushes was good and the option to create animated GIFs with ease is a nice addition as well. However, there have been many negative aspects that have given me so much grief with this program. I've dealt with the instability of tablet devices being added on to my computer when I use GIMP. The times that GIMP has crashed and so many irretrievable hours of work lost only fueled my rage against this program. But after accessing an already usable file only to get an error message that doesn't make any sense, that was it. That was the straw that broke the camel's back. After five years of putting up with this mediocre excuse for a software, it's time for me to hold my hands high and say enough is enough. I feel like I've been put through something and this is the breaking point. A software that crashes on you and then has the audacity to refuse a direct order makes for a truly negative experience. This is it. I've had it. I will never use GIMP software again for as long as I live. I know you have some sort of bureaucracy set up to review letters from anonymous users. There is a chance you will reject this letter but if that's the case, I'm willing to give you these parting words. GIMP is, without a doubt, the most unreliable, poorly programmed, pathetic excuse for a software program ever conceived by a human being. That is all. If you took the time to read this, you have my thanks. If you just carelessly rejected this without even looking into the letter, you can all go fuck yourselves. ___ gimp-developer-list mailing list gimp-developer-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer-list ___ gimp-developer-list mailing list gimp-developer-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer-list
Re: [Gimp-developer] A letter of complaint
Michael Henning (dra...@darkrefraction.com) wrote: If you can imagine, we certainly don't intend the GIMP to crash. What? I wasted *hours* over gimp sourcecode to hide crashers in there while maintaining plausible deniability. I can't have my work being disregarded in such a blunt manner!!1! Bye, Simon -- si...@budig.de http://simon.budig.de/ ___ gimp-developer-list mailing list gimp-developer-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer-list
Re: [Gimp-developer] the Gimp lcms.c plug-in
On 7/20/12, Elle Stone l.elle.st...@gmail.com wrote: On 7/20/12, Øyvind Kolås pip...@gimp.org wrote: As we move along towards embracing a fully GEGLified workflow, different things will happen at different times. The initial thing to reach for is likely to support the 2.8 era manual colormanagement. With a fully GEGLified system there will still be the need to use ICC based conversions to pixel formats efficiently dealt with by babl/GEGL/GIMP as well as do final transforms for display / export. Thanks! Now I have a better idea of the big picture regarding the lcms plug-in. I've had a chance to dig into the code and see what the different functions do and when they are called. It looks like converting the lcms.c plug-in to use lcms2 will be pretty easy to do. Which means really high bit depth conversions should also be not too difficult. But one step at a time. Just an update. I rewrote the existing Gimp lcms.c plug-in to use lcm2. It seems to work just like the current Gimp plug-in. If anyone is interested in testing it, I can supply the code. As explained here: http://ninedegreesbelow.com/temp/gimp-lcms-3.html (see summary at bottom of page), there are some coding issues to be resolved before attempting to make the lcms2 plug-in do high-bit-depth color conversions. So dealing with the coding issues is my next step. Also, has anyone seen this Ubuntu bug report? Completely replace lcms1 by lcms2 in Ubuntu https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/lcms/+bug/885324 Kind regards, Elle ___ gimp-developer-list mailing list gimp-developer-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer-list
[Gimp-developer] Update and apology
Yesterday, I wrote a letter out of frustration in regards to GIMP. I feel that my actions were juvenile, immature and socially unacceptable. I haven't bothered to update the software and in a fit of misguided and dumb rage, I unleashed that attack against those who did not deserve it. I'm not a victim, I just made a foolish mistake out of anger. And for that I apologize. I meant no disrespect to any of you and I'm pretty sure I'd give GIMP another chance with its newest version. So please disregard everything that was said in a letter of complaint. Anywho, here's the problem that I faced with GIMP yesterday. There is a PSD file converted from SAI that I tried opening with GIMP. I was able to beforehand up until that morning in which an error message popped up saying unsupported compression mode. I wasn't sure why I was getting this error, because I could open up the file beforehand without penalty. I probably don't deserve any pointers after that episode from yesterday, but just thought I'd bring up what happened now that I've put things into perspective. ___ gimp-developer-list mailing list gimp-developer-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer-list
Re: [Gimp-developer] Update and apology
On Tue, Jul 24, 2012 at 8:33 PM, Akira Tanaka artfoundr...@yahoo.comwrote: Yesterday, I wrote a letter out of frustration in regards to GIMP. I feel that my actions were juvenile, immature and socially unacceptable. I haven't bothered to update the software and in a fit of misguided and dumb rage, I unleashed that attack against those who did not deserve it. I'm not a victim, I just made a foolish mistake out of anger. And for that I apologize. I meant no disrespect to any of you and I'm pretty sure I'd give GIMP another chance with its newest version. So please disregard everything that was said in a letter of complaint. Thank you Anywho, here's the problem that I faced with GIMP yesterday. There is a PSD file converted from SAI that I tried opening with GIMP. I was able to beforehand up until that morning in which an error message popped up saying unsupported compression mode. I wasn't sure why I was getting this error, because I could open up the file beforehand without penalty. I probably don't deserve any pointers after that episode from yesterday, but just thought I'd bring up what happened now that I've put things into perspective. It would make sense submitting the file to the bug tracker so that it could be looked at. The PSD import plug-in was last looked at quite a long time ago, and the person who rewrote it isn't available presently (at least, I haven't heard from him for last three years), but if there's a bug, it should be tracked. Alexandre Prokoudine http://libregraphicsworld.org ___ gimp-developer-list mailing list gimp-developer-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer-list
Re: [Gimp-developer] Update and apology
I am not intimately familiar with all the compression modes that the plugin supports, but I'll give a stab at a possible cause. The P$D file format provides support for several compression types in it's PSD format. LSW(native), JPG, RLE, plus image pyramid options. It might be possible that during the export from SAI, one of these options was included. I attempted to download SAI to test it on my end (from sai.detstwo.c*m http://sai.detstwo.com/), but my ClamAV shows the install file as infected. I would be willing to give it a go if someone can point me to a clean download. Sorry I can't test the theory on this end just yet, but I do hope the idea helps. On 07/24/2012 10:33 AM, Akira Tanaka wrote: Yesterday, I wrote a letter out of frustration in regards to GIMP. I feel that my actions were juvenile, immature and socially unacceptable. I haven't bothered to update the software and in a fit of misguided and dumb rage, I unleashed that attack against those who did not deserve it. I'm not a victim, I just made a foolish mistake out of anger. And for that I apologize. I meant no disrespect to any of you and I'm pretty sure I'd give GIMP another chance with its newest version. So please disregard everything that was said in a letter of complaint. Anywho, here's the problem that I faced with GIMP yesterday. There is a PSD file converted from SAI that I tried opening with GIMP. I was able to beforehand up until that morning in which an error message popped up saying unsupported compression mode. I wasn't sure why I was getting this error, because I could open up the file beforehand without penalty. I probably don't deserve any pointers after that episode from yesterday, but just thought I'd bring up what happened now that I've put things into perspective. ___ gimp-developer-list mailing list gimp-developer-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer-list ___ gimp-developer-list mailing list gimp-developer-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer-list
Re: [Gimp-developer] Gimp UI ... hesitant about compiling a list...
RMMjr (bob.montgomery...@gmail.com) wrote: I've worked with a lot of software, and delved into usability issues, and while I'm not a luminary like Nielsen/Norman Co, I can recognize when a UI is taxing me, or in some cases, when it reduces me to babbling, schitzo spaz trying to learn again how to use a stupid pencil. There is something about neuro-motor circuitry and art-brains which just doesn't cotton to sitting through hours of explanatory videos to do even simple stuff. You might recoil and suggest I just use some simple tool like 'paint' and be happy. I do use stuff like Blender, which similarly has an amazingly Star- Trekkie-esque UI, which can be similarly daunting if your mice and tablet and trackpads aren't deconfilicted with your systemwide hotkeys. Please try to state your question/suggestion in a way, that non-native speaker have a chance of understanding. I did not get at all what you want, and my english in general is pretty good. Thanks, Simon -- si...@budig.de http://simon.budig.de/ ___ gimp-developer-list mailing list gimp-developer-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer-list
Re: [Gimp-developer] Gimp UI ... hesitant about compiling a list...
On 24/07/12 15:56, Simon Budig wrote:
Please try to state your question/suggestion in a way, that non-native
speaker have a chance of understanding. I did not get at all what you
want, and my english in general is pretty good. Thanks, Simon
He seems to suggest that GIMP developers should conduct a user
experience study.
But he also seems to suggest that instead of artists or any kind of user
in the target audience, developers should interview clueless people who
refuse to learn anything or is dumb ('idiots' in his words) enough to
take years to figure that floating selections can be anchored back or
turned into new layers.
It can be summarized like this: Perform a user experience study
interviewing MS Paint users to figure out how to turn GIMP into MS Paint.
Gez
___
gimp-developer-list mailing list
gimp-developer-list@gnome.org
https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer-list
Re: [Gimp-developer] Gimp UI ... hesitant about compiling a list...
On Tue, Jul 24, 2012 at 10:04 PM, RMMjr wrote: Gimp, after using it for years, I'm still wondering how cut paste, which is complicated by multiple 'floating' layers, selections which persist, things which behave like 'bugs' - modal stuff where strange boundaries which seemingly can't be eradicated constrain operations, where actions happen with selections long thought to be forgotten, surprises abound to the extent 'learning' by doing is not a practical approach. The UI never seems to explain itself. For how long have you been reading this mailing list? My next question depends on your answer. Alexandre Prokoudine http://libregraphicsworld.org ___ gimp-developer-list mailing list gimp-developer-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer-list
Re: [Gimp-developer] Update and apology
On 24/07/12 18:33, Akira Tanaka wrote: Yesterday, I wrote a letter out of frustration in regards to GIMP. I feel that my actions were juvenile, immature and socially unacceptable. I haven't bothered to update the software and in a fit of misguided and dumb rage, I unleashed that attack against those who did not deserve it. I'm not a victim, I just made a foolish mistake out of anger. And for that I apologize. I meant no disrespect to any of you and I'm pretty sure I'd give GIMP another chance with its newest version. So please disregard everything that was said in a letter of complaint. Well that seems an honest , full and sincere apology. If I'd felt I was the target I'd be satisfied. Anyone who can eat that much humble pie in one helping deserves to be excused. Though it was clearly out of order, it was so outrageous I think it caused more amusement than anything else. We don't get much comic relief on gimp-developer. You brightened my day and for that I thank you. If you can identify a serious bug, there's a good chance it will get fixed because bugs should be fixed. It's not a case of whether the reporter deserves help , the code base deserve help. If you can define a reproducible problem please report it. Best regards, gg. ___ gimp-developer-list mailing list gimp-developer-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer-list
Re: [Gimp-developer] the Gimp lcms.c plug-in
Yes, it looks like both of them are concerned with exactly what I've been trying to do. Sigh. As I'm working with Gimp 2.9 from git, and have no clue how Gimp development works, and only got involved because I really want Gimp color conversion to use high bit-depth, and my impression was that making this happen is not exactly a high priority item for Gimp and right now Gimp from git is doing 8-bit color conversions, may I ask why the Gimp from git that I'm using (which is really recent, July 13, 2012) is still using lcms1 if there are patches for lcms2? Elle On 7/24/12, Michael Schumacher schum...@gmx.de wrote: On 24.07.2012 17:47, Elle Stone wrote: Just an update. I rewrote the existing Gimp lcms.c plug-in to use lcm2. It seems to work just like the current Gimp plug-in. If anyone is interested in testing it, I can supply the code. Also, has anyone seen this Ubuntu bug report? Completely replace lcms1 by lcms2 in Ubuntu https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/lcms/+bug/885324 Hi Elle, there are two bug reports in Bugzilla about changes in GIMP related to lcms2: This one introduces lcms2 to get support for ICC V4 profiles: https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=662739 That one has been created to move everything to lcms2 to counter some performance problems: https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=675558 I'm not sure if you are aware of them. Both have patches attached, and you should check if any of them - in particular the latter - is a duplication of your efforts. HTH, Michael ___ gimp-developer-list mailing list gimp-developer-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer-list -- http://ninedegreesbelow.com Articles and tutorials on open source digital imaging and photography ___ gimp-developer-list mailing list gimp-developer-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer-list
Re: [Gimp-developer] the Gimp lcms.c plug-in
How does one apply a patch? What does apply a patch mean? On 7/24/12, Michael Schumacher schum...@gmx.de wrote: On 24.07.2012 23:00, Elle Stone wrote: may I ask why the Gimp from git that I'm using (which is really recent, July 13, 2012) is still using lcms1 if there are patches for lcms2? Because no one has tried and applied the patches yet. ___ gimp-developer-list mailing list gimp-developer-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer-list
Re: [Gimp-developer] the Gimp lcms.c plug-in
On 24.07.2012 23:16, Elle Stone wrote: How does one apply a patch? What does apply a patch mean? You use the patch program to apply the changes that are contained in the attachments to the bug report to the GIMP code. The usage example from the Wikipedia article about patch should do: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patch_%28Unix%29 patch foo.diff This could be executed in the top directory of your GIMP source tree. There are parameters to adjust for differences in the diff files regarding both your and the patch author's systems, see http://linux.die.net/man/1/patch - -p is the most commonly used parameter to get rid of leading folders in the paths used in the diff file, for example. -- HTH, Michael ___ gimp-developer-list mailing list gimp-developer-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer-list
Re: [Gimp-developer] the Gimp lcms.c plug-in
Perhaps what I really should be asking is what is the process by which an existing patch to the Gimp code is applied so that everyone can use it? In particular, by what process does Gimp get patched to use lcms2? ( I kinda doubt that the Gimp developers are going to let Elle Stone patch Gimp, as the chances are very great that Elle Stone would break Gimp in the process.) I don't need to patch my own copy of Gimp. It's already using lcms2. On 7/24/12, Michael Schumacher schum...@gmx.de wrote: On 24.07.2012 23:16, Elle Stone wrote: How does one apply a patch? What does apply a patch mean? You use the patch program to apply the changes that are contained in the attachments to the bug report to the GIMP code. The usage example from the Wikipedia article about patch should do: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patch_%28Unix%29 patch foo.diff This could be executed in the top directory of your GIMP source tree. There are parameters to adjust for differences in the diff files regarding both your and the patch author's systems, see http://linux.die.net/man/1/patch - -p is the most commonly used parameter to get rid of leading folders in the paths used in the diff file, for example. -- HTH, Michael ___ gimp-developer-list mailing list gimp-developer-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer-list -- http://ninedegreesbelow.com Articles and tutorials on open source digital imaging and photography ___ gimp-developer-list mailing list gimp-developer-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer-list
Re: [Gimp-developer] the Gimp lcms.c plug-in
On Tuesday, July 24, 2012, 23:37:16, Elle Stone wrote: In particular, by what process does Gimp get patched to use lcms2? ( I kinda doubt that the Gimp developers are going to let Elle Stone patch Gimp, as the chances are very great that Elle Stone would break Gimp in the process.) If you started by checking out the source from git, just run git diff lcms2.patch If you instead used the source tarball, it's a bit more work. If you only changed a single file, the simplest way to create a patch is to get the copy of original file, put it in the same directory as the changed file with a different extension (eg. file.c.orig), then create a patch like this: diff -u file.c.orig file.c lcms2.patch If you modified several files, it's slightly more involved: you will need a clean source tree (from the source tarball), and your patched version, each in it's own subdirectory. You should run make distclean in your tree (if you compiled from it), to ensure that none of the files that get generated during build are left behind. Assuming the clean tree is in gimp-2.8.0.orig/, and your patched version is in gimp-2.8.0/, you create the patch with: diff -Naur gimp-2.8.0.orig gimp-2.8.0 lcms2.patch -- Jernej Simončič http://eternallybored.org/ Assumption is the mother of all foul-ups. -- Tylk's Law ___ gimp-developer-list mailing list gimp-developer-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer-list
Re: [Gimp-developer] the Gimp lcms.c plug-in
Jernej, thanks! That is a very clear explanation of how to use patch. -- http://ninedegreesbelow.com Articles and tutorials on open source digital imaging and photography ___ gimp-developer-list mailing list gimp-developer-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer-list
Re: [Gimp-developer] the Gimp lcms.c plug-in
This is beautiful, Jernej - I've moved this entire conversation to my gimp-developer/coding help subdirectory. Thanks. On 07/24/2012 02:58 PM, Jernej Simončič wrote: On Tuesday, July 24, 2012, 23:37:16, Elle Stone wrote: In particular, by what process does Gimp get patched to use lcms2? ( I kinda doubt that the Gimp developers are going to let Elle Stone patch Gimp, as the chances are very great that Elle Stone would break Gimp in the process.) If you started by checking out the source from git, just run git diff lcms2.patch If you instead used the source tarball, it's a bit more work. If you only changed a single file, the simplest way to create a patch is to get the copy of original file, put it in the same directory as the changed file with a different extension (eg. file.c.orig), then create a patch like this: diff -u file.c.orig file.c lcms2.patch If you modified several files, it's slightly more involved: you will need a clean source tree (from the source tarball), and your patched version, each in it's own subdirectory. You should run make distclean in your tree (if you compiled from it), to ensure that none of the files that get generated during build are left behind. Assuming the clean tree is in gimp-2.8.0.orig/, and your patched version is in gimp-2.8.0/, you create the patch with: diff -Naur gimp-2.8.0.orig gimp-2.8.0 lcms2.patch ___ gimp-developer-list mailing list gimp-developer-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer-list
