Re: [Gimp-developer] WGO Update Status

[Americo Gobbo]

Hi,
I've began now read some of these old posts... are very interesting and
they are put an interesting light in the application name question... many
times I did read in this mailing list discussions very interesting about
this issue.
My suggestion is to create some anchored links from the 'introduction.html'
or a bracket, e.g. [to know more about GIMP acronym] to the the
'ancient_history.html' where was decided the name.

On Mon, Oct 5, 2015 at 5:32 PM, Pat David  wrote:

> http://www.gimp.org/about/ancient_history.html
> 
>
> http://www.gimp.org/about/introduction.html
> 
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Re: [Gimp-developer] WGO Update Status

[Jehan Pagès]

Hi,

On Tue, Oct 6, 2015 at 4:52 PM, Pat David  wrote:
> Awesome feedback!  (I thrive on having a task list in front of me!) :D
>
> On Mon, Oct 5, 2015 at 8:38 PM Jehan Pagès 
> wrote:
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> 1/ Is it possible to force the download page at least to be https?
>> There are some companies which provides free certificates with root CA
>> in all mainstream browsers.
>>
>> This would be a prerequisite to pretend to provide safe download. For
>> instance I see the page provides checksums, which is good but is half
>> meaningless if not provided through a secure channel like https (half
>> because it still allows download corruption check, but not malevolent
>> corruption integrity check).
>
>
> I agree, but this is not a thing that I can do personally.  I'd refer to the
> big gimper, schumaml to find out what the best course of action might be
> here?  Not sure who best to obtain a cert through for our use.  If we do get

The most common CA giving free certs is startSSL: http://www.startssl.com/
The free certs are 1-year and no-wildcards only. But I'm thinking they
may offer help for a project such as GIMP and could provide some certs
with advanced features if we contact them.

Other than this, there is Let's Encrypt (https://letsencrypt.org/), a
project driven by Mozilla among other entities, which aims at
providing free certs for everyone. But their root certs are not yet in
any browser. Right now this is still in "test" state, thus not usable
by gimp.org. Yet we may keep an eye there.

> one, then it would make more sense to simply use it across the entire site
> when we implement.

Yes of course, it would be good to have it everywhere. But this may
not be mandatory everywhere. But for the download page, it has to, in
my opinion. In other words, going to http://static.gimp.org/downloads/
should be impossible and automatically redirect to
https://static.gimp.org/downloads/
This is a basic security mesure. If we allow access to a non-encrypted
version of the download page, this is like a house with a steel
security door and a wood broken door: malevolent people can still use
the wood broken door and the other door is as good as decoration. In
software terms, malevolent people can just do man-in-the-middle
attacks on the non-https page.

But yeah making https mandatory everywhere is even better and very
easy to do (that's a web server configuration).

Jehan

>>
>> 2/ Also still in the download page, could the download links for OS
>> which have any (Windows and OSX) be made into colorful buttons? I
>> believe this simplifies the download task.
>
>
> Yes, absolutely.  Now that the porting is mostly done, I can start focusing
> on styling elements of the page like the download links (they are cute
> buttons on the current WGO, I'll aim for something in a similar vein for
> SGO.
>
>>
>>
>> 3/ If the exact Linux distribution (Fedora rightfully detected, for
>> instance in my case) has been detected, it would be good to have the
>> install information for this distrib at the top (and maybe even the
>> others hidden, unless clicking a "see all Linux distribution" link).
>
>
> I think this is a good idea as well, and will look into expanding the
> detection/show logic to capture more specific instances like this.
>
>>
>>
>> 4/ As sad as it is (for someone like me whose first distribution was
>> Mandrake, later known as Mandriva), the Mandriva company has closed
>> this year. The website has been down for many weeks, thus even though
>> it has been saved many times in the last years, it seems that this
>> time, it is really the end. You may as well remove it from the list.
>>
>>
>> 5/ I propose to add Mageia (which is a community fork of Mandriva,
>> born a few years ago) instead. Same install command as Mandriva.
>
>
> I'm not sure if we want to remove mention of Mandriva completely for
> historical reasons?  (I'm genuinely not sure - my first gut instinct is to
> remove it for the reasons you've listed, and replace it with the Mageia
> reference.  If anyone has a different thought let me know - otherwise I'm
> going with your suggestion).
>
>>
>>
>> 6/ For Fedora, yum is dead. The right install command is: "dnf install
>> gimp" (well yum will still work but will output a deprecation warning
>> and redirect to dnf). Of course, you may provide both commands if you
>> want to be as backward compatible as possible.
>
>
> Thank you, I'll update accordingly!
>
>>
>>
>> 7/ Mint is quite well spread too. I propose to add it to the "Ubuntu,
>> Debian" list. (Mint is mostly derived from Ubuntu, except for one
>> version derived from Debian)
>
>
> I agree, and will add it to the list!  Thank you so much for taking the time
> to have a look and provide detailed feedback!
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Re: [Gimp-developer] [Gimp-web] WGO Update Status

[Paka]

* Pat David  [10-06-15 10:55]:
> On Mon, Oct 5, 2015 at 8:38 PM Jehan Pagès 
> wrote:
 [...]
> > 7/ Mint is quite well spread too. I propose to add it to the "Ubuntu,
> > Debian" list. (Mint is mostly derived from Ubuntu, except for one
> > version derived from Debian)
> >
> 
> I agree, and will add it to the list!  Thank you so much for taking the
> time to have a look and provide detailed feedback!

Er, ?? openSUSE ??  :^)
-- 
(paka)Patrick Shanahan   Plainfield, Indiana, USA  @ptilopteri
http://en.opensuse.orgopenSUSE Community Memberfacebook/ptilopteri
http://wahoo.no-ip.orgPhoto Album: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/gallery2
Registered Linux User #207535@ http://linuxcounter.net
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Re: [Gimp-developer] WGO Update Status

[Pat David]

Awesome feedback!  (I thrive on having a task list in front of me!) :D

On Mon, Oct 5, 2015 at 8:38 PM Jehan Pagès 
wrote:

> Hi,
>
> 1/ Is it possible to force the download page at least to be https?
> There are some companies which provides free certificates with root CA
> in all mainstream browsers.
>
> This would be a prerequisite to pretend to provide safe download. For
> instance I see the page provides checksums, which is good but is half
> meaningless if not provided through a secure channel like https (half
> because it still allows download corruption check, but not malevolent
> corruption integrity check).
>

I agree, but this is not a thing that I can do personally.  I'd refer to
the big gimper, schumaml to find out what the best course of action might
be here?  Not sure who best to obtain a cert through for our use.  If we do
get one, then it would make more sense to simply use it across the entire
site when we implement.


>
> 2/ Also still in the download page, could the download links for OS
> which have any (Windows and OSX) be made into colorful buttons? I
> believe this simplifies the download task.
>

Yes, absolutely.  Now that the porting is mostly done, I can start focusing
on styling elements of the page like the download links (they are cute
buttons on the current WGO, I'll aim for something in a similar vein for
SGO.


>
> 3/ If the exact Linux distribution (Fedora rightfully detected, for
> instance in my case) has been detected, it would be good to have the
> install information for this distrib at the top (and maybe even the
> others hidden, unless clicking a "see all Linux distribution" link).
>

I think this is a good idea as well, and will look into expanding the
detection/show logic to capture more specific instances like this.


>
> 4/ As sad as it is (for someone like me whose first distribution was
> Mandrake, later known as Mandriva), the Mandriva company has closed
> this year. The website has been down for many weeks, thus even though
> it has been saved many times in the last years, it seems that this
> time, it is really the end. You may as well remove it from the list.
>

> 5/ I propose to add Mageia (which is a community fork of Mandriva,
> born a few years ago) instead. Same install command as Mandriva.
>

I'm not sure if we want to remove mention of Mandriva completely for
historical reasons?  (I'm genuinely not sure - my first gut instinct is to
remove it for the reasons you've listed, and replace it with the Mageia
reference.  If anyone has a different thought let me know - otherwise I'm
going with your suggestion).


>
> 6/ For Fedora, yum is dead. The right install command is: "dnf install
> gimp" (well yum will still work but will output a deprecation warning
> and redirect to dnf). Of course, you may provide both commands if you
> want to be as backward compatible as possible.
>

Thank you, I'll update accordingly!


>
> 7/ Mint is quite well spread too. I propose to add it to the "Ubuntu,
> Debian" list. (Mint is mostly derived from Ubuntu, except for one
> version derived from Debian)
>

I agree, and will add it to the list!  Thank you so much for taking the
time to have a look and provide detailed feedback!
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Re: [Gimp-developer] WGO Update Status

[Pat David]

Even more feedback!  Yay! :D

On Tue, Oct 6, 2015 at 5:46 AM Elle Stone 
wrote:

>
> Also regarding the download page, checksums are nice, but many users
> won't know why they are important or how to use them. Step by step
> instructions (or a link to same) would be nice. Probably different
> instructions would be needed for Linux, Windows, and Mac users.
>

I agree!  I'll take a stab at some instructions (please correct me if I get
something wrong).


>
> I don't understand the point of the long list of tar.bz2 files. They
> almost look like they should be links.
>

I believe this list was provided with its associated md5 hashes to check
the integrity.  I'm not sure what the reason for the list is other than to
have it visible on the site for others to use if needed (or as a reference)?


>
> It would be nice to see a link to Partha's website for Windows and Mac
> users. Leastways I always refer Windows users to Partha's builds.
>

I'm not quite sure what's involved with listing/approving a particular
build on the "official" downloads page.  I'll be happy to include any
build, of course, but at the direction of the entire team.  So - is there
any reason not to include Partha's builds?  (I actually use his builds as
well on my windows machines occasionally).


>
> There doesn't seem to be enough visual indication of when the
> "topic/subtopic" on the page has changed. Studying the contents,
> obviously there's a well-thought-out underlying outline/organization.
> But visually it's not obvious (well, not obvious to me anyway) where the
> major breaks are.
>

I'm adding some horizontal rules to see if it helps cue the section
change.  Thanks!
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Re: [Gimp-developer] libmypaint

[Michael Natterer]

On Tue, 2015-10-06 at 15:59 +0200, Jehan Pagès wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> On Sun, Oct 4, 2015 at 2:55 PM, Thorsten Stettin
>  wrote:
> > Am 03.10.2015 um 11:49 schrieb Michael Natterer:
> > > 
> > > On Sat, 2015-10-03 at 00:47 +0200, Thorsten Stettin wrote:
> > > > 
> > > > Hello,
> > > > 
> > > > I'm just integrate my homebrew Ubuntu package called
> > > > libmypaint. But
> > > > what's the impact regarding Gimp-2.9.x?
> > > 
> > > With libmypaint it builds the mypaint brush tool which you need
> > > to enable in prefs -> playground. It's very experimental :)
> > 
> > Ok, I'll do my very best. :-D
> 
> I'd like to add that it is still very very slow, not really usable
> yet
> in real use cases. Just saying since I believe your purpose is to do
> a
> package, and users should be aware where they are getting into.

It has to be activated on a prefs page that says "experimental
playground", so who cares... If they activate it let them have it.

Regards,
--Mitch


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Re: [Gimp-developer] WGO Update Status

[Elle Stone]

On 10/05/2015 09:37 PM, Jehan Pagès wrote:

Hi,

1/ Is it possible to force the download page at least to be https?
There are some companies which provides free certificates with root CA
in all mainstream browsers.

This would be a prerequisite to pretend to provide safe download. For
instance I see the page provides checksums, which is good but is half
meaningless if not provided through a secure channel like https (half
because it still allows download corruption check, but not malevolent
corruption integrity check).


Also regarding the download page, checksums are nice, but many users 
won't know why they are important or how to use them. Step by step 
instructions (or a link to same) would be nice. Probably different 
instructions would be needed for Linux, Windows, and Mac users.


I don't understand the point of the long list of tar.bz2 files. They 
almost look like they should be links.


It would be nice to see a link to Partha's website for Windows and Mac 
users. Leastways I always refer Windows users to Partha's builds.


There doesn't seem to be enough visual indication of when the 
"topic/subtopic" on the page has changed. Studying the contents, 
obviously there's a well-thought-out underlying outline/organization. 
But visually it's not obvious (well, not obvious to me anyway) where the 
major breaks are.


Elle

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Re: [Gimp-developer] libmypaint

[Jehan Pagès]

Hi,

On Sun, Oct 4, 2015 at 2:55 PM, Thorsten Stettin
 wrote:
> Am 03.10.2015 um 11:49 schrieb Michael Natterer:
>>
>> On Sat, 2015-10-03 at 00:47 +0200, Thorsten Stettin wrote:
>>>
>>> Hello,
>>>
>>> I'm just integrate my homebrew Ubuntu package called libmypaint. But
>>> what's the impact regarding Gimp-2.9.x?
>>
>> With libmypaint it builds the mypaint brush tool which you need
>> to enable in prefs -> playground. It's very experimental :)
>
> Ok, I'll do my very best. :-D

I'd like to add that it is still very very slow, not really usable yet
in real use cases. Just saying since I believe your purpose is to do a
package, and users should be aware where they are getting into.

Jehan

>>
>> Regards,
>> Mitch
>>
>
>
> --
> Lao-Tse sagt: Nichtstun ist besser, als mit viel Mühe nichts zu schaffen.
> Und er sagt auch: Ich habe drei Schätze, die ich hüte und hege.
> Der eine ist die Liebe, der zweite ist die Genügsamkeit, der dritte ist die
> Demut.
> Nur der Liebende ist mutig, nur der Genügsame ist großzügig, nur der
> Demütige ist fähig zu herrschen.
>
>
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Re: [Gimp-developer] WGO Update Status

[Jehan Pagès]

Also I was testing the static website on an old iphone. It detected
"ios" correctly and showed the downloads for "Unix-like systems".
This is kind of wrong because it could make people think that there is
a version for Iphone (many people barely — if at all — understand what
is ios, Unix, Windows, etc.).
I think that the detection algorithm should be like this:

1/ if detected: show the downloads for the detected system (that's
already done);

2/ if detected and we know this is not supported/available (so we can
prepare a list of OSes), show a proper message "GIMP is not supported
on this OS, sorry" and below this, the "Show downloads for GNU/Linux |
OS X | Microsoft Windows | All" message, and that's all.
This step allows to not misdirect the user into thinking we have
support for one's platform, in particular I am thinking of all the
smartphone OSes (iphone, Android, FirefoxOS, etc.).

3/ When detection fails or results into a system we have not planned,
just show a relevant message "We cannot recognize your system in our
list of supported systems" and below the list of supported systems,
and all the downloads.

Jehan


On Tue, Oct 6, 2015 at 12:47 PM, Elle Stone
 wrote:
> On 10/05/2015 09:37 PM, Jehan Pagès wrote:
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> 1/ Is it possible to force the download page at least to be https?
>> There are some companies which provides free certificates with root CA
>> in all mainstream browsers.
>>
>> This would be a prerequisite to pretend to provide safe download. For
>> instance I see the page provides checksums, which is good but is half
>> meaningless if not provided through a secure channel like https (half
>> because it still allows download corruption check, but not malevolent
>> corruption integrity check).
>
>
> Also regarding the download page, checksums are nice, but many users won't
> know why they are important or how to use them. Step by step instructions
> (or a link to same) would be nice. Probably different instructions would be
> needed for Linux, Windows, and Mac users.
>
> I don't understand the point of the long list of tar.bz2 files. They almost
> look like they should be links.
>
> It would be nice to see a link to Partha's website for Windows and Mac
> users. Leastways I always refer Windows users to Partha's builds.
>
> There doesn't seem to be enough visual indication of when the
> "topic/subtopic" on the page has changed. Studying the contents, obviously
> there's a well-thought-out underlying outline/organization. But visually
> it's not obvious (well, not obvious to me anyway) where the major breaks
> are.
>
> Elle
>
>
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Re: [Gimp-developer] Fade length setting for paint dynamics

[Joao S. O. Bueno]

Sttting it programatically is likely a missing feature - it shouldbe
available as gimp-context-fade-set-length  -- and yes, it has nothing
to do with percents

On 2 October 2015 at 09:51, Ofnuts  wrote:
> I see that some changes have occured in that area in 2.8.14... However:
>
>  * I can't figure out the "percent" setting. Percent of what? From what
>I tried, it is not a percent of the total path length, not a percent
>of the stroke length, and not a percent of some image dimension.
>  * is there a way to set it programmatically? searching "fade",
>"context" or "dynamics" in the procedure browser doesn't show
>anything (not does looking at dir(gimp) in Python).
>
>
>
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