Re: [Gimp-developer] AI algorithms in GIMP
Hi people, 1. Laxminarayan has some very good suggestions. I think all of them are possible with varying degree of success. 2. Liam, I am implementing a quite popular paper for image upscaling called SRGAN. 3. Gerald, there would be a testing and validation datasets to gauge the accuracy of the neural network. The goal would be to minimize 'overfitting' of the neural network to the training dataset. You're going to lose quality when you upscale, but the upscaled images will still be better than ones produced using traditional algorithms. Sorry I haven't been able to get back to you guys before, I am caught up in work and will not be able to write code properly till something important gets over. However, I have studied generative adversarial networks (GANs) and am now learning a python ML library called PyTorch. Once this is done, I'll be able to start writing code. My main problem here seems to be the computational infraastructure, I fear that my 8 GB Nvidia Quadro M4000 will not be good enough to train on the data. If anybody had better resources they can share, please let me know. Once we have the toy GAN code set up in Python, people can play around with it for various types of projects. Cheerio, Maitraya On Sat, Mar 30, 2019 at 8:44 PM Gerald Friedland via gimp-developer-list < gimp-developer-list@gnome.org> wrote: > All, > > When people say "AI" here do they mean Neural Networks? > > "Intelligent" algorithms have been implemented in GIMP for many years. > About 15 years ago, this algorithm got integrated into GIMP: > http://www.siox.org > > Now, the reason I bring this is up is that any machine learning algorithm > needs extensive empirical testing and we setup frameworks for > that during the integration of the above algorithm. So whatever machine > learning you want to integrate in GIMP needs to come with an > independent benchmark dataset that is annotated for what you want to > achieve. This benchmark dataset is used AFTER you think you > are ready with building your algorithm. > This is, after you have trained and tested your machine learner (using yet > completely different datasets) and minimized parameters > for generalization, the benchmark dataset does not only further test > accuracy and generalization but also computational efficiency > and user experience. Question like how can the user correct errors of the > AI need to be answered too. > > On a further note, if you did this benchmark testing, you would find that > waifu2x is scam. This is, it only works with a very specialized > set of images. The first thing to investigate would be what set of images > that is and how to explain that to a GIMP user. In general, images > cannot be upscaled. The data processing inequality mathematically proofs > that information cannot be created by processing an image. > So, while many TV crime shows suggest this, algorithmically zooming into a > blurry license plate or face to make it recognizable is physically > and mathematically impossible. An independent benchmark set would show the > limits of this algorithm. > > Just my two cents, > Gerald > -- > http://www.gerald-friedland.org > > > On Fri, Mar 29, 2019 at 8:58 PM Liam R E Quin wrote: > > > On Sat, 2019-03-30 at 07:40 +0530, Laxminarayan Kamath via gimp- > > developer-list wrote: > > > just dropping a couple of ideas here > > > > [...] > > > > Something like waifu2x would be fabulous to have in GIMP (a neural > > network-based image upscaling algorithm). > > > > slave liam (ankh on IRC) > > > > > > -- > > Liam Quin - web slave for https://www.fromoldbooks.org/ > > with fabulous vintage art and fascinating texts to read. > > Click here to have the slave rewarded with cold gruel. > > > > ___ > > gimp-developer-list mailing list > > List address:gimp-developer-list@gnome.org > > List membership: > > https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer-list > > List archives: https://mail.gnome.org/archives/gimp-developer-list > > > ___ > gimp-developer-list mailing list > List address:gimp-developer-list@gnome.org > List membership: > https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer-list > List archives: https://mail.gnome.org/archives/gimp-developer-list > ___ gimp-developer-list mailing list List address:gimp-developer-list@gnome.org List membership: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer-list List archives: https://mail.gnome.org/archives/gimp-developer-list
Re: [Gimp-developer] AI algorithms in GIMP - Style Transfer
Hi Davide, I will use this code as reference as I have never made a plugin myself. Thanks for this! Maitraya On Wed 20 Feb, 2019, 10:24 PM Davide Sandona' via gimp-developer-list < gimp-developer-list@gnome.org wrote: > Hello everyone, > > I too was interested about the integration of AI algorithms into GIMP. > > I created a GIMP plugin that implement the style transfer technique. You > can see the code in the following repository [1], as well as the > instructions to get it working. Into this plugin I have integrated two > different style transfer implementations, and possibly more will follow. > > Feel free to take a look at the code and try it. Just keep in mind that it > is an highly experimental plugin, it is not meant for regular end users. > > Let me know if you find any errors that should be fixed. > > [1] https://github.com/Davide-sd/GIMP-style-transfer > > Davide. > ___ > gimp-developer-list mailing list > List address:gimp-developer-list@gnome.org > List membership: > https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer-list > List archives: https://mail.gnome.org/archives/gimp-developer-list > ___ gimp-developer-list mailing list List address:gimp-developer-list@gnome.org List membership: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer-list List archives: https://mail.gnome.org/archives/gimp-developer-list
Re: [Gimp-developer] AI algorithms in GIMP
Hi guys, I have started working on the super-resolution plugin after going through some tutorials on GANs. I will try to put some kind of update on my blog in a month or so. Thanks, Maitraya. On Mon, Jan 21, 2019 at 9:17 PM Maitraya Bhattacharyya < maitraya.li...@gmail.com> wrote: > Hi Elle, > > I looked at the posts on discuss.pixls.us, and it seems that their > approach is quite different to what we are trying to achieve. They are > mostly trying to use multiple images or use traditional methods which don't > yield very good results. > > Thanks, > Maitraya. > > On Mon, Jan 21, 2019 at 9:12 PM Elle Stone > wrote: > >> On 1/21/19 10:01 AM, Elle Stone wrote: >> > >> > I don't know if this is the same "super resolution", but FWIW the topic >> > has come up several times on discuss.pixls.us: >> > >> > https://discuss.pixls.us/search?q=%20superresolution >> >> My apologies, I wasn't very clear. discuss.pixls.us is a discussion >> forum for users and developers of free/libre software. >> >> Possibly there is already some sort of super-resolution algorithm >> implementation for one or another free-libre softwares, in which case >> there is also free/libre code available. But I didn't read any of the >> links to see what they are actually about. >> >> Pat David (the person who runs the forum) might know whether there's any >> actual implementation with code that might overlap with/be useful for >> what Maitraya Bhattacharyya is proposing to do. >> >> -- >> https://ninedegreesbelow.com >> Color management and free/libre photography >> > ___ gimp-developer-list mailing list List address:gimp-developer-list@gnome.org List membership: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer-list List archives: https://mail.gnome.org/archives/gimp-developer-list
Re: [Gimp-developer] AI algorithms in GIMP
Hi Elle, I looked at the posts on discuss.pixls.us, and it seems that their approach is quite different to what we are trying to achieve. They are mostly trying to use multiple images or use traditional methods which don't yield very good results. Thanks, Maitraya. On Mon, Jan 21, 2019 at 9:12 PM Elle Stone wrote: > On 1/21/19 10:01 AM, Elle Stone wrote: > > > > I don't know if this is the same "super resolution", but FWIW the topic > > has come up several times on discuss.pixls.us: > > > > https://discuss.pixls.us/search?q=%20superresolution > > My apologies, I wasn't very clear. discuss.pixls.us is a discussion > forum for users and developers of free/libre software. > > Possibly there is already some sort of super-resolution algorithm > implementation for one or another free-libre softwares, in which case > there is also free/libre code available. But I didn't read any of the > links to see what they are actually about. > > Pat David (the person who runs the forum) might know whether there's any > actual implementation with code that might overlap with/be useful for > what Maitraya Bhattacharyya is proposing to do. > > -- > https://ninedegreesbelow.com > Color management and free/libre photography > ___ gimp-developer-list mailing list List address:gimp-developer-list@gnome.org List membership: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer-list List archives: https://mail.gnome.org/archives/gimp-developer-list
Re: [Gimp-developer] AI algorithms in GIMP
Hi Martin, Thanks for the second link on Tensorlayer. if the license of the library is compatible with GPL, there is no reason we cannot used their VGG19 network but I don't think it is! I will still need a few weeks to create the image dataset and then train this. Thanks, Maitraya. On Mon, Jan 21, 2019 at 8:51 PM Martin Marmsoler wrote: > Hi, > > I already tried the first one, but it has not the quality I expected. Did > anybody tried the second one? The second one looks quite good :) > > [1] https://github.com/alexjc/neural-enhance > [2] https://github.com/tensorlayer/srgan > > Best regards, > > Martin > > > Am Mo., 21. Jan. 2019 um 16:07 Uhr schrieb Elle Stone < > ellest...@ninedegreesbelow.com>: > >> On 1/21/19 8:53 AM, Maitraya Bhattacharyya via gimp-developer-list wrote: >> > super resolution >> >> I don't know if this is the same "super resolution", but FWIW the topic >> has come up several times on discuss.pixls.us: >> >> https://discuss.pixls.us/search?q=%20superresolution >> >> Best regards, >> Elle Stone >> -- >> https://ninedegreesbelow.com >> Color management and free/libre photography >> ___ >> gimp-developer-list mailing list >> List address:gimp-developer-list@gnome.org >> List membership: >> https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer-list >> List archives: https://mail.gnome.org/archives/gimp-developer-list >> > ___ gimp-developer-list mailing list List address:gimp-developer-list@gnome.org List membership: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer-list List archives: https://mail.gnome.org/archives/gimp-developer-list
Re: [Gimp-developer] AI algorithms in GIMP
Hi guys, I think Casey's suggestion of super resolution is an excellent idea and would be useful to a lot of people using GIMP. The two algorithms which have been doing quite well are: 1. SRGAN: The relevant paper is at https://arxiv.org/abs/1609.04802 . This has yielded some very nice results so far and is now considered to be state-of-the-art in the computer vision community. Implementing this will be my first priority. 2. SRResNet: The paper is at https://arxiv.org/abs/1609.04802 . This algorithm also gives quite good results. Now to train these neural nets, I will have to prepare a dataset consisting of low resolution and high resolution images and divide them into training, testing and validation sets. I'll try to write a script which pulls high-resolution CC-A/CC0/CC-A-SA images from the internet and downscale them in python to prepare their low resolution counterparts. I only hope that my GPU has enough memory to train the model, otherwise I am done for. What I would like to do is create a python script (most of these libraries are available in Python) and then pass the image along with the scaling factor into this from inside GIMP. I've never worked with GEGL before but I will try finding out how to use this. Since I am working on this in my free time and have not implemented neural nets much, this might take some time for me to learn. I'll try keeping you guys informed. Any suggestions are welcome. Thanks, Maitraya. On Sun, Jan 20, 2019 at 12:41 AM Jehan Pagès wrote: > Hi! > > On Thu, Jan 17, 2019 at 12:14 PM Maitraya Bhattacharyya via > gimp-developer-list wrote: > >> Dear devs, >> >> I have recently joined the mailing list because I wanted to contribute my >> two pennies to GIMP development (since I use it for my work). I had a look >> at the proposed plan for GIMP and wondered if people would be interested >> in >> including some popular AI algorithms for several image processing tasks. >> > > We are definitely interested by any AI algorithms. At least I am. > > I would be interested in writing implementations of some of these >> algorithms into gimp if someone can commit to writing a frontend/GUI for >> it. >> > > The hard point here is "if someone can commit to […]". It's a bit hard to > commit without knowing much (unless you are paid, then you have no choice > ;p). Usually it's the other way around: you propose something. It doesn't > have to be with a great GUI or whatever. Then if we like what we see, we > will definitely add our own 2 cents to the pool. This is usually how most > features are done around here, when someone contributes a patch with a very > cool idea, then we review and often fix/change what we think is needed > (sometimes just a bit, sometimes deeply). > > I often wrote crap GUI myself and others came to the rescue with ideas and > code. :-) > > >> It would be great if we can make a list of these algorithms to implement >> and rank them according to priority. >> > > I would suggest to *not do that*. :-) > Basically we are not a company, we don't sell GIMP and don't have huge > plans for the next decade. Well "officially", we do have a roadmap and > such, but if you follow GIMP development, you'd see it is more flexible and > experimental than some rigid plan. > Making a huge list with big plans for the future "might" be just the way > to spend a lot of time and kill your project in the end. > > Instead I would propose **you** just select **one** such algorithm which > you find is great and even irrefusable since it would be so fucking awesome > and useful! Then you implement and propose it and we will be so amazed that > we just have to include it and do a proper GUI for it. That sounds like the > best plan. > > From there, you can go on with more awesome ideas. :-) > You may even be able to start doing more organized work with a list of > algorithms after, etc. But for a first patch, I would suggest you just take > the lead. > > >> As for my background, I am a theoretical physicist making simulations for >> HPCs (in C/C++) and interpreting their data (in Python). I have a > > reasonable workstation to train neural nets, if necessary. Be warned that I >> > > There is only a single very important part about AI algorithms which need > training: we will want the code to train, the data, etc. everything as free > software/Open Data and properly documented. > I have worked with trained algorithms in Free Software where the trained > data is just dropped as-is, and once the original author disappears, this > is unmaintainable. In particular it cannot be improved or fixed or nothing, > because we don't have the code to re-generate the neural networks (or > alike). This
Re: [Gimp-developer] AI algorithms in GIMP
Hi again, Something that I forgot to mention in the last email, here is a link for fun: https://ai.googleblog.com/2017/04/teaching-machines-to-draw.html M. On Thu, Jan 17, 2019 at 6:43 PM Maitraya Bhattacharyya < maitraya.li...@gmail.com> wrote: > Hi Alexandre, > > I have yet to compile an exhaustive list of algorithms but I am going to > mention two at the moment. We can compile a list later too: > > 1. Assisted background removal: The paper on this from Facebook is > https://arxiv.org/pdf/1703.06870.pdf . The ability to identify different > objects in an image including foreground objects can assist users in > removing the background object. I am specifically interesting in the > removal of hair (which poses to be a really big problem). I believe there > are already a few trained models on this already available in python > libraries (TensorFlow). > > 2. Deep Style transfer: The relevant paper is at > https://arxiv.org/pdf/1508.06576.pdf . This can be used to create 'Prisma > like' transfer of style from one painting to another. I believe we may also > have pretrained models already available here but we could try training the > network specific to our needs. > > I think the idea is to do something along the lines of what Adobe is doing > with Photoshop or in the wider context for their entire product line. > Although we lack the funding or infrastructure to be a serious competitor, > there are several researchers in the image processing/Machine Learning > community who've written amazing papers over the years and open sourced > their datasets. We should still be able to get something respectable using > their research as reference. > > If there is nobody on the Machine Learning side in GIMP, I suggest you let > me read a few papers and make some implementations but specific to what the > GIMP users want. I am not an ML guy but there are people in my community > who are using ML for science and there is a possibility I will be able to > talk to some of them (who do image processing, but with sunspots instead of > pictures of puppies). > > ML is a strange and wonderful thing, and people have tried doing > everything with it. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. But we have > to know what the GIMP community wants, then I will try to be organize our > collective thoughts in a more technical document. > > Thanks, > Maitraya. > > On Thu, Jan 17, 2019 at 5:01 PM Alexandre Prokoudine via > gimp-developer-list wrote: > >> On Thu, Jan 17, 2019 at 2:14 PM Maitraya Bhattacharyya wrote: >> > >> > Dear devs, >> > >> > I have recently joined the mailing list because I wanted to contribute >> my >> > two pennies to GIMP development (since I use it for my work). I had a >> look >> > at the proposed plan for GIMP and wondered if people would be >> interested in >> > including some popular AI algorithms for several image processing tasks. >> > >> > I would be interested in writing implementations of some of these >> > algorithms into gimp if someone can commit to writing a frontend/GUI >> for it. >> > >> > It would be great if we can make a list of these algorithms to implement >> > and rank them according to priority. >> > >> > As for my background, I am a theoretical physicist making simulations >> for >> > HPCs (in C/C++) and interpreting their data (in Python). I have a >> > reasonable workstation to train neural nets, if necessary. Be warned >> that I >> > have never written a GUI software in my life and I don't know the GIMP >> > codebase at all. I envision these to be standalone scripts which can be >> > called in from the GIMP interface. >> > >> > Please let me know what you think. >> >> Hello and welcome :) >> >> What algorithms in particular are you thinking of? >> >> Alex >> ___ >> gimp-developer-list mailing list >> List address:gimp-developer-list@gnome.org >> List membership: >> https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer-list >> List archives: https://mail.gnome.org/archives/gimp-developer-list >> > ___ gimp-developer-list mailing list List address:gimp-developer-list@gnome.org List membership: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer-list List archives: https://mail.gnome.org/archives/gimp-developer-list
Re: [Gimp-developer] AI algorithms in GIMP
Hi Alexandre, I have yet to compile an exhaustive list of algorithms but I am going to mention two at the moment. We can compile a list later too: 1. Assisted background removal: The paper on this from Facebook is https://arxiv.org/pdf/1703.06870.pdf . The ability to identify different objects in an image including foreground objects can assist users in removing the background object. I am specifically interesting in the removal of hair (which poses to be a really big problem). I believe there are already a few trained models on this already available in python libraries (TensorFlow). 2. Deep Style transfer: The relevant paper is at https://arxiv.org/pdf/1508.06576.pdf . This can be used to create 'Prisma like' transfer of style from one painting to another. I believe we may also have pretrained models already available here but we could try training the network specific to our needs. I think the idea is to do something along the lines of what Adobe is doing with Photoshop or in the wider context for their entire product line. Although we lack the funding or infrastructure to be a serious competitor, there are several researchers in the image processing/Machine Learning community who've written amazing papers over the years and open sourced their datasets. We should still be able to get something respectable using their research as reference. If there is nobody on the Machine Learning side in GIMP, I suggest you let me read a few papers and make some implementations but specific to what the GIMP users want. I am not an ML guy but there are people in my community who are using ML for science and there is a possibility I will be able to talk to some of them (who do image processing, but with sunspots instead of pictures of puppies). ML is a strange and wonderful thing, and people have tried doing everything with it. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. But we have to know what the GIMP community wants, then I will try to be organize our collective thoughts in a more technical document. Thanks, Maitraya. On Thu, Jan 17, 2019 at 5:01 PM Alexandre Prokoudine via gimp-developer-list wrote: > On Thu, Jan 17, 2019 at 2:14 PM Maitraya Bhattacharyya wrote: > > > > Dear devs, > > > > I have recently joined the mailing list because I wanted to contribute my > > two pennies to GIMP development (since I use it for my work). I had a > look > > at the proposed plan for GIMP and wondered if people would be interested > in > > including some popular AI algorithms for several image processing tasks. > > > > I would be interested in writing implementations of some of these > > algorithms into gimp if someone can commit to writing a frontend/GUI for > it. > > > > It would be great if we can make a list of these algorithms to implement > > and rank them according to priority. > > > > As for my background, I am a theoretical physicist making simulations for > > HPCs (in C/C++) and interpreting their data (in Python). I have a > > reasonable workstation to train neural nets, if necessary. Be warned > that I > > have never written a GUI software in my life and I don't know the GIMP > > codebase at all. I envision these to be standalone scripts which can be > > called in from the GIMP interface. > > > > Please let me know what you think. > > Hello and welcome :) > > What algorithms in particular are you thinking of? > > Alex > ___ > gimp-developer-list mailing list > List address:gimp-developer-list@gnome.org > List membership: > https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer-list > List archives: https://mail.gnome.org/archives/gimp-developer-list > ___ gimp-developer-list mailing list List address:gimp-developer-list@gnome.org List membership: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer-list List archives: https://mail.gnome.org/archives/gimp-developer-list
[Gimp-developer] AI algorithms in GIMP
Dear devs, I have recently joined the mailing list because I wanted to contribute my two pennies to GIMP development (since I use it for my work). I had a look at the proposed plan for GIMP and wondered if people would be interested in including some popular AI algorithms for several image processing tasks. I would be interested in writing implementations of some of these algorithms into gimp if someone can commit to writing a frontend/GUI for it. It would be great if we can make a list of these algorithms to implement and rank them according to priority. As for my background, I am a theoretical physicist making simulations for HPCs (in C/C++) and interpreting their data (in Python). I have a reasonable workstation to train neural nets, if necessary. Be warned that I have never written a GUI software in my life and I don't know the GIMP codebase at all. I envision these to be standalone scripts which can be called in from the GIMP interface. Please let me know what you think. Cheerio, Maitraya. Senior Research Fellow Center for Excellence in Space Sciences India Indian Institute of Science Education and Research Kolkata ___ gimp-developer-list mailing list List address:gimp-developer-list@gnome.org List membership: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer-list List archives: https://mail.gnome.org/archives/gimp-developer-list
