Re: [Gimp-developer] Gimp in private schools and educational institutions

2015-04-30 Thread Alexandre Prokoudine
It's your lucky day: next LGM is in London.

Alex
 30 апр. 2015 г. 16:07 пользователь C R caj...@gmail.com написал:

 I'd give just about anything to be able to afford the trip to Toronto at
 the moment. I may be able to do so next year. It's a long way for me, since
 I'm London-based. I'd be happy to help with GIMP brand identity if that is
 helpful. I do it all the time for work.

 Best,
 -C

 On Wed, Apr 29, 2015 at 11:15 PM, Michael Schumacher schum...@gmx.de
 wrote:

 
 
  On 04/30/2015 12:07 AM, C R wrote:
 
   Come to think of it, I'd like to see more GIMP teeshirts. Is there
   somewhere where we can submit designs for them, where profits go to the
   project?
 
  We have a proposal from someone who wants to create shirts - and other
  stuff.
 
  What we've been slow about is determining how the GIMP mark (it has been
  pointed out to us that we effectively have one, even if none was ever
  registered) may be used, as this is one of the few solid offers for that
  we ever had.
 
  Some of the main GIMP contributors are currently gathered at Libre
  Graphics Meeting 2015 in Troronto, Canada
  (http://libregraphicsmeeting.org/2015/ please drop by f you are in the
  area) and we are going to discuss this here.
 
  --
  Regards,
  Michael
  GPG: 96A8 B38A 728A 577D 724D 60E5 F855 53EC B36D 4CDD
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Re: [Gimp-developer] Gimp in private schools and educational institutions

2015-04-30 Thread C R
I will definitely be there! It will be awesome to meet anyone who can come.
I'm the organiser for the London Linux Meetup here, so if anyone wants to
come out for drinks or something after the conference, I can help with that
as well. :)


On Thu, Apr 30, 2015 at 2:10 PM, Alexandre Prokoudine 
alexandre.prokoud...@gmail.com wrote:

 It's your lucky day: next LGM is in London.

 Alex
  30 апр. 2015 г. 16:07 пользователь C R caj...@gmail.com написал:

 I'd give just about anything to be able to afford the trip to Toronto at
 the moment. I may be able to do so next year. It's a long way for me,
 since
 I'm London-based. I'd be happy to help with GIMP brand identity if that is
 helpful. I do it all the time for work.

 Best,
 -C

 On Wed, Apr 29, 2015 at 11:15 PM, Michael Schumacher schum...@gmx.de
 wrote:

 
 
  On 04/30/2015 12:07 AM, C R wrote:
 
   Come to think of it, I'd like to see more GIMP teeshirts. Is there
   somewhere where we can submit designs for them, where profits go to
 the
   project?
 
  We have a proposal from someone who wants to create shirts - and other
  stuff.
 
  What we've been slow about is determining how the GIMP mark (it has been
  pointed out to us that we effectively have one, even if none was ever
  registered) may be used, as this is one of the few solid offers for that
  we ever had.
 
  Some of the main GIMP contributors are currently gathered at Libre
  Graphics Meeting 2015 in Troronto, Canada
  (http://libregraphicsmeeting.org/2015/ please drop by f you are in the
  area) and we are going to discuss this here.
 
  --
  Regards,
  Michael
  GPG: 96A8 B38A 728A 577D 724D 60E5 F855 53EC B36D 4CDD
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Re: [Gimp-developer] Gimp in private schools and educational institutions

2015-04-30 Thread C R
Yes, I've heard that as well. I can see your point about wearing a GIMP
shirt in that environment, but to date, I've never heard of any disabled
people taking offence to the acronym GIMP. Also, merely appending 2.8 and
showing the Wilbur logo on the shirt would probably be enough to
disambiguate.

On Wed, Apr 29, 2015 at 11:29 PM, Liam R. E. Quin l...@holoweb.net wrote:

 On Wed, 2015-04-29 at 23:13 +0100, C R wrote:

  To put it into perspective, do a Google Image search for gimp, and
 see the ratio of GIMP project images to fetishy Pulp Fiction swag.


 The more common meaning of the word in English-speaking countries is a
 derogatory term for someone injured or disabled; for example,
 http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=gimp

 It is not specific to the USA (I'm not from the USA and do not live
 there).

 I write this sitting at a conference wearing a GIMP tee-shirt. But I
 don't wear that shirt at work. Part of my job involves accessibility.

 Best,

 Liam







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Re: [Gimp-developer] Gimp in private schools and educational institutions

2015-04-29 Thread Elle Stone

On 04/29/2015 02:47 PM, Nathan Summers wrote:

We do not make GIMP to compete against Photoshop.

GIMP_is_  used at schools. Also, USA is not the only country in the world.
Not even the largest one out there.


So our target audience is non-English speaking photographic
professionals that don't already like Photoshop?  I just don't see
that as a very big niche.

The GIMP Vision briefing (http://gui.gimp.org/index.php/Vision_briefing) 
says GIMP is for high-end photo manipulation . . .  for intense use . . 
. intense in the number of hours users put in to really master the 
tools; this is exactly the same as the centuries old process of how 
people, through apprenticeship, master a certain craft


If GIMP isn't competing with PhotoShop for high end users, what software 
is currently used by the core users that GIMP is targeting? Are all of 
them already using GIMP?


Digital artists have Krita which competes with and in many ways is much 
better than PhotoShop, as former PhotoShop users will attest.


To have a viable free/libre alternative to PhotoShop with its 
proprietary file format and cloud-based access, photographers *need* 
high bit depth GIMP to compete with and be better than PhotoShop.


Best,
Elle

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Re: [Gimp-developer] Gimp in private schools and educational institutions

2015-04-29 Thread Jon Senior
Apologies for the top post. My phone won't permit anything else. With regard to 
the Firefox comparison, if the name was the only difference you'd have a valid 
argument. But unless you can line up the potential contributors who were put 
off by the name you're going to have to take into account that gimp's target 
audience is tiny compared to that of Firefox (High-end 'pro' photographers 
versus everyone who wants to view web pages... that is to say,  everyone.). 
Since Foss development is done by users of the software (I'm guessing that the 
number of volunteer Foss developers who have no interest in using the program 
that they are working on can be counted on the fingers of one hand) this is the 
primary limiting factor on the number of developers.

Jon (who frankly doesn't care what it's called and suspects that very few 
people actually do)

Nathan Summers rockwal...@gmail.com a écrit :

Grr, when did GMail change the default from reply-to-list to reply-to-author?

On Tue, Apr 28, 2015 at 4:34 AM, Alexandre Prokoudine
alexandre.prokoud...@gmail.com wrote:
 28 апр. 2015 г. 8:22 пользователь Sam Bagot написал:

 Renames have worked in the past as I see it and for the most part, as I'm
 sure you've heard people consider before, a product named gimp can't
 succeed against a product named professionally like PhotoShop.

 We do not make GIMP to compete against Photoshop.

 GIMP _is_ used at schools. Also, USA is not the only country in the world.
 Not even the largest one out there.


So our target audience is non-English speaking photographic
professionals that don't already like Photoshop?  I just don't see
that as a very big niche.

 Furthermore, I suggest you exercise nastyness elsewhere. This is a mailing
 list for discussing development of GIMP.

There's nothing nasty about what he said.  The name of the program
actually is a serious impediment to the development of GIMP, and if
it's not to be discussed here, then where?  Sam makes several
excellent points about why GIMP doesn't get the kind of professional
contributions that other projects of similar stature such as the Linux
kernel or Firefox, and I think there's a lot of truth to what he says.

You can say that you don't care about what GIMP means in English out
of some egalitarian principal that all languages should be treated
equally, but as a practical matter that means that you're putting a
huge barrier to developing in place for the largest part of the
software industry GDP.  That has consequences.  For example, I
wouldn't have wanted my name associated with something called GIMP
if I had known what the word meant when I started contributing to it.
I highly doubt I'm the only one.  Are you sure it's a good idea to
shut out contributions from all but the most naive and the most
calloused of the English-speaking world?

I personally consider the we can get people to overlook the
connotations of the name idea as a failed hypothesis at this point.
I'm not sure how aware the non-native-English speakers are of how far
the name is outside of the Overton Window, but I can assure you it's
not even close.  It's not worth the effort to try to make it socially
acceptable.  You can choose to ignore that fact, but you can't deny
that it has a very large influence on the pace of development.

Rockwalrus
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Re: [Gimp-developer] Gimp in private schools and educational institutions

2015-04-29 Thread Nathan Summers
On Wed, Apr 29, 2015 at 3:04 PM, Alan Pater alan.pa...@gmail.com wrote:
 On Wed, Apr 29, 2015 at 1:47 PM, Nathan Summers rockwal...@gmail.com wrote:
 I wouldn't have wanted my name associated with something called GIMP
 if I had known what the word meant when I started contributing to it.

 gimp
 noun
 1. twisted silk, worsted, or cotton with cord or wire running through
 it, used chiefly as upholstery trimming. (in lacemaking) coarser
 thread that forms the outline of the design in some techniques.
 2. fishing line made of silk bound with wire.

If you think that either of these meanings are what Spencer and Peter
had in mind when they named the program, you're even more naive than
I.  :)

Rockwalrus
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Re: [Gimp-developer] Gimp in private schools and educational institutions

2015-04-29 Thread Alan Pater
On Wed, Apr 29, 2015 at 1:47 PM, Nathan Summers rockwal...@gmail.com wrote:
 I wouldn't have wanted my name associated with something called GIMP
 if I had known what the word meant when I started contributing to it.

gimp
noun
1. twisted silk, worsted, or cotton with cord or wire running through
it, used chiefly as upholstery trimming. (in lacemaking) coarser
thread that forms the outline of the design in some techniques.
2. fishing line made of silk bound with wire.
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Re: [Gimp-developer] Gimp in private schools and educational institutions

2015-04-29 Thread Gez
El mié, 29-04-2015 a las 14:47 -0400, Nathan Summers escribió:
 On Tue, Apr 28, 2015 at 4:34 AM, Alexandre Prokoudine
 alexandre.prokoud...@gmail.com wrote:
 
  Furthermore, I suggest you exercise nastyness elsewhere. This is a mailing
  list for discussing development of GIMP.
 
 There's nothing nasty about what he said.  The name of the program
 actually is a serious impediment to the development of GIMP, and if
 it's not to be discussed here, then where?  Sam makes several
 excellent points about why GIMP doesn't get the kind of professional
 contributions that other projects of similar stature such as the Linux
 kernel or Firefox, and I think there's a lot of truth to what he says.

Earlier I proposed to solve this issue by adding the en_US-prudish
locale as a joke, but now I'm not sure it's even a joke.
As every message in this thread (and older threads about the same
subject) clearly show, this is an issue that only affects some
americans.
Nobody else seems to be having any troubles with the name.
Even if everyone in the USA have issues with the name (which doesn't
seem to be the case either), it's still a regional issue.
So IT IS a little bit nasty to treat anyone defending the name as idiots
who intentionally chose a name that harms the project.
Nobody else cares about the name outside the US, and coincidentally
nobody seems to be too concerned about GIMP as a product competing in
an industry as americans are.
Most of us just want to see GIMP becoming a capable tool suitable for
our everyday tasks. I don't think the name will prevent that and I don't
think it will ever prevent coders interested in making it a better tool
from joining the project.

That being said, it is a shame if a few american schools where GIMP
could be used stop using it because of the name, but it seems that it
could be solved by creating a new locale where GIMP is renamed and point
people uncomfortable with the name to change it.
GIM could work.
But again it's a regional issue, and renaming the entire project because
a few people don't like it would be overkill (and yes, in the world
context a few americans whining about the name IS a few people).

The case of the Mitsubishi Pajero I referred to earlier was solved by
renaming the product only for a specific region. The product kept the
original name for everywhere else. No big deal apparently.

Gez.

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Re: [Gimp-developer] Gimp in private schools and educational institutions

2015-04-29 Thread C R
Come to think of it, I'd like to see more GIMP teeshirts. Is there
somewhere where we can submit designs for them, where profits go to the
project?

On Wed, Apr 29, 2015 at 11:03 PM, C R caj...@gmail.com wrote:

 I'm an American (US citizen even), and the name GIMP is just fine. For
 the record, I have no issues wearing a GIMP teeshirt.
 Be thankful that the name was changed in 1995 from The GIMP to just
 GIMP, following the realisation that the movie Pulp Fiction would
 forever taint the name in the minds of those who care more about what a
 program is called than what it does. Given the sheer quantity of GIMP
 tutorials on YouTube, it's obviously wildly popular in the English-speaking
  (US and non-US) world. If rich kids's parents in private schools turn
 their nose up at GIMP just because the acronym spells something that isn't
 marketed to them directly, then they will have no issues buying/subscribing
 to Photoshop, which is a usable substitute for GIMP. Not ideal, I'll grant
 you, but well, beggars and choosers and such. ;)

 One last solution (since the name will not change) might be to append the
 version number after GIMP, so they could call it GIMP 2.8, which would
 disambiguate it from the fetishy Quentin Tarantino character (as if that
 mistake could actually be made).

 My two cents, and I am a career graphic designer and long, long time
 Photoshop user (since Photoshop was ver 2.5, up through CS3). These days I
 use GIMP for all my Photoshop heavy-lifting. I always recommend GIMP to
 companies as a replacement for Adobe products for their photo-editing and
 graphic design needs. Not one has even mentioned the name being an issue.
 Why would they? GIMP goes right along with Google, Yahoo, and a myriad of
 other silly named things that people also don't care about. The most common
 questions I get are Are you sure this is free?, and No, really? This is
 free? I can use this for professional purposes?.

 Sure, there will always be some people who don't like the name. Maybe a
 page directing them to some of the finer points made in these
 conversations, and suggestions for calling it something else like
 G.I.M.P. or GnuIMP, or GIMP 2.8. or pronouncing it JIMP as none of these
 require changing the name of the program.

 -C


 On Wed, Apr 29, 2015 at 7:47 PM, Nathan Summers rockwal...@gmail.com
 wrote:

 Grr, when did GMail change the default from reply-to-list to
 reply-to-author?

 On Tue, Apr 28, 2015 at 4:34 AM, Alexandre Prokoudine
 alexandre.prokoud...@gmail.com wrote:
  28 апр. 2015 г. 8:22 пользователь Sam Bagot написал:
 
  Renames have worked in the past as I see it and for the most part, as
 I'm
  sure you've heard people consider before, a product named gimp can't
  succeed against a product named professionally like PhotoShop.
 
  We do not make GIMP to compete against Photoshop.
 
  GIMP _is_ used at schools. Also, USA is not the only country in the
 world.
  Not even the largest one out there.
 

 So our target audience is non-English speaking photographic
 professionals that don't already like Photoshop?  I just don't see
 that as a very big niche.

  Furthermore, I suggest you exercise nastyness elsewhere. This is a
 mailing
  list for discussing development of GIMP.

 There's nothing nasty about what he said.  The name of the program
 actually is a serious impediment to the development of GIMP, and if
 it's not to be discussed here, then where?  Sam makes several
 excellent points about why GIMP doesn't get the kind of professional
 contributions that other projects of similar stature such as the Linux
 kernel or Firefox, and I think there's a lot of truth to what he says.

 You can say that you don't care about what GIMP means in English out
 of some egalitarian principal that all languages should be treated
 equally, but as a practical matter that means that you're putting a
 huge barrier to developing in place for the largest part of the
 software industry GDP.  That has consequences.  For example, I
 wouldn't have wanted my name associated with something called GIMP
 if I had known what the word meant when I started contributing to it.
 I highly doubt I'm the only one.  Are you sure it's a good idea to
 shut out contributions from all but the most naive and the most
 calloused of the English-speaking world?

 I personally consider the we can get people to overlook the
 connotations of the name idea as a failed hypothesis at this point.
 I'm not sure how aware the non-native-English speakers are of how far
 the name is outside of the Overton Window, but I can assure you it's
 not even close.  It's not worth the effort to try to make it socially
 acceptable.  You can choose to ignore that fact, but you can't deny
 that it has a very large influence on the pace of development.

 Rockwalrus
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Re: [Gimp-developer] Gimp in private schools and educational institutions

2015-04-29 Thread Michael Schumacher


On 04/30/2015 12:07 AM, C R wrote:

 Come to think of it, I'd like to see more GIMP teeshirts. Is there
 somewhere where we can submit designs for them, where profits go to the
 project?

We have a proposal from someone who wants to create shirts - and other
stuff.

What we've been slow about is determining how the GIMP mark (it has been
pointed out to us that we effectively have one, even if none was ever
registered) may be used, as this is one of the few solid offers for that
we ever had.

Some of the main GIMP contributors are currently gathered at Libre
Graphics Meeting 2015 in Troronto, Canada
(http://libregraphicsmeeting.org/2015/ please drop by f you are in the
area) and we are going to discuss this here.

-- 
Regards,
Michael
GPG: 96A8 B38A 728A 577D 724D 60E5 F855 53EC B36D 4CDD
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Re: [Gimp-developer] Gimp in private schools and educational institutions

2015-04-29 Thread C R
I'm an American (US citizen even), and the name GIMP is just fine. For
the record, I have no issues wearing a GIMP teeshirt.
Be thankful that the name was changed in 1995 from The GIMP to just
GIMP, following the realisation that the movie Pulp Fiction would
forever taint the name in the minds of those who care more about what a
program is called than what it does. Given the sheer quantity of GIMP
tutorials on YouTube, it's obviously wildly popular in the English-speaking
 (US and non-US) world. If rich kids's parents in private schools turn
their nose up at GIMP just because the acronym spells something that isn't
marketed to them directly, then they will have no issues buying/subscribing
to Photoshop, which is a usable substitute for GIMP. Not ideal, I'll grant
you, but well, beggars and choosers and such. ;)

One last solution (since the name will not change) might be to append the
version number after GIMP, so they could call it GIMP 2.8, which would
disambiguate it from the fetishy Quentin Tarantino character (as if that
mistake could actually be made).

My two cents, and I am a career graphic designer and long, long time
Photoshop user (since Photoshop was ver 2.5, up through CS3). These days I
use GIMP for all my Photoshop heavy-lifting. I always recommend GIMP to
companies as a replacement for Adobe products for their photo-editing and
graphic design needs. Not one has even mentioned the name being an issue.
Why would they? GIMP goes right along with Google, Yahoo, and a myriad of
other silly named things that people also don't care about. The most common
questions I get are Are you sure this is free?, and No, really? This is
free? I can use this for professional purposes?.

Sure, there will always be some people who don't like the name. Maybe a
page directing them to some of the finer points made in these
conversations, and suggestions for calling it something else like
G.I.M.P. or GnuIMP, or GIMP 2.8. or pronouncing it JIMP as none of these
require changing the name of the program.

-C


On Wed, Apr 29, 2015 at 7:47 PM, Nathan Summers rockwal...@gmail.com
wrote:

 Grr, when did GMail change the default from reply-to-list to
 reply-to-author?

 On Tue, Apr 28, 2015 at 4:34 AM, Alexandre Prokoudine
 alexandre.prokoud...@gmail.com wrote:
  28 апр. 2015 г. 8:22 пользователь Sam Bagot написал:
 
  Renames have worked in the past as I see it and for the most part, as
 I'm
  sure you've heard people consider before, a product named gimp can't
  succeed against a product named professionally like PhotoShop.
 
  We do not make GIMP to compete against Photoshop.
 
  GIMP _is_ used at schools. Also, USA is not the only country in the
 world.
  Not even the largest one out there.
 

 So our target audience is non-English speaking photographic
 professionals that don't already like Photoshop?  I just don't see
 that as a very big niche.

  Furthermore, I suggest you exercise nastyness elsewhere. This is a
 mailing
  list for discussing development of GIMP.

 There's nothing nasty about what he said.  The name of the program
 actually is a serious impediment to the development of GIMP, and if
 it's not to be discussed here, then where?  Sam makes several
 excellent points about why GIMP doesn't get the kind of professional
 contributions that other projects of similar stature such as the Linux
 kernel or Firefox, and I think there's a lot of truth to what he says.

 You can say that you don't care about what GIMP means in English out
 of some egalitarian principal that all languages should be treated
 equally, but as a practical matter that means that you're putting a
 huge barrier to developing in place for the largest part of the
 software industry GDP.  That has consequences.  For example, I
 wouldn't have wanted my name associated with something called GIMP
 if I had known what the word meant when I started contributing to it.
 I highly doubt I'm the only one.  Are you sure it's a good idea to
 shut out contributions from all but the most naive and the most
 calloused of the English-speaking world?

 I personally consider the we can get people to overlook the
 connotations of the name idea as a failed hypothesis at this point.
 I'm not sure how aware the non-native-English speakers are of how far
 the name is outside of the Overton Window, but I can assure you it's
 not even close.  It's not worth the effort to try to make it socially
 acceptable.  You can choose to ignore that fact, but you can't deny
 that it has a very large influence on the pace of development.

 Rockwalrus
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 https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer-list
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Re: [Gimp-developer] Gimp in private schools and educational institutions

2015-04-29 Thread C R
To put it into perspective, do a Google Image search for gimp, and see
the ratio of GIMP project images to fetishy Pulp Fiction swag. The internet
has voted on this one already, and it's an overwhelming majority in favour
of GIMP being a FOSS image manipulation program.

On Wed, Apr 29, 2015 at 11:07 PM, C R caj...@gmail.com wrote:

 Come to think of it, I'd like to see more GIMP teeshirts. Is there
 somewhere where we can submit designs for them, where profits go to the
 project?

 On Wed, Apr 29, 2015 at 11:03 PM, C R caj...@gmail.com wrote:

 I'm an American (US citizen even), and the name GIMP is just fine. For
 the record, I have no issues wearing a GIMP teeshirt.
 Be thankful that the name was changed in 1995 from The GIMP to just
 GIMP, following the realisation that the movie Pulp Fiction would
 forever taint the name in the minds of those who care more about what a
 program is called than what it does. Given the sheer quantity of GIMP
 tutorials on YouTube, it's obviously wildly popular in the English-speaking
  (US and non-US) world. If rich kids's parents in private schools turn
 their nose up at GIMP just because the acronym spells something that isn't
 marketed to them directly, then they will have no issues buying/subscribing
 to Photoshop, which is a usable substitute for GIMP. Not ideal, I'll grant
 you, but well, beggars and choosers and such. ;)

 One last solution (since the name will not change) might be to append the
 version number after GIMP, so they could call it GIMP 2.8, which would
 disambiguate it from the fetishy Quentin Tarantino character (as if that
 mistake could actually be made).

 My two cents, and I am a career graphic designer and long, long time
 Photoshop user (since Photoshop was ver 2.5, up through CS3). These days I
 use GIMP for all my Photoshop heavy-lifting. I always recommend GIMP to
 companies as a replacement for Adobe products for their photo-editing and
 graphic design needs. Not one has even mentioned the name being an issue.
 Why would they? GIMP goes right along with Google, Yahoo, and a myriad of
 other silly named things that people also don't care about. The most common
 questions I get are Are you sure this is free?, and No, really? This is
 free? I can use this for professional purposes?.

 Sure, there will always be some people who don't like the name. Maybe a
 page directing them to some of the finer points made in these
 conversations, and suggestions for calling it something else like
 G.I.M.P. or GnuIMP, or GIMP 2.8. or pronouncing it JIMP as none of these
 require changing the name of the program.

 -C


 On Wed, Apr 29, 2015 at 7:47 PM, Nathan Summers rockwal...@gmail.com
 wrote:

 Grr, when did GMail change the default from reply-to-list to
 reply-to-author?

 On Tue, Apr 28, 2015 at 4:34 AM, Alexandre Prokoudine
 alexandre.prokoud...@gmail.com wrote:
  28 апр. 2015 г. 8:22 пользователь Sam Bagot написал:
 
  Renames have worked in the past as I see it and for the most part, as
 I'm
  sure you've heard people consider before, a product named gimp can't
  succeed against a product named professionally like PhotoShop.
 
  We do not make GIMP to compete against Photoshop.
 
  GIMP _is_ used at schools. Also, USA is not the only country in the
 world.
  Not even the largest one out there.
 

 So our target audience is non-English speaking photographic
 professionals that don't already like Photoshop?  I just don't see
 that as a very big niche.

  Furthermore, I suggest you exercise nastyness elsewhere. This is a
 mailing
  list for discussing development of GIMP.

 There's nothing nasty about what he said.  The name of the program
 actually is a serious impediment to the development of GIMP, and if
 it's not to be discussed here, then where?  Sam makes several
 excellent points about why GIMP doesn't get the kind of professional
 contributions that other projects of similar stature such as the Linux
 kernel or Firefox, and I think there's a lot of truth to what he says.

 You can say that you don't care about what GIMP means in English out
 of some egalitarian principal that all languages should be treated
 equally, but as a practical matter that means that you're putting a
 huge barrier to developing in place for the largest part of the
 software industry GDP.  That has consequences.  For example, I
 wouldn't have wanted my name associated with something called GIMP
 if I had known what the word meant when I started contributing to it.
 I highly doubt I'm the only one.  Are you sure it's a good idea to
 shut out contributions from all but the most naive and the most
 calloused of the English-speaking world?

 I personally consider the we can get people to overlook the
 connotations of the name idea as a failed hypothesis at this point.
 I'm not sure how aware the non-native-English speakers are of how far
 the name is outside of the Overton Window, but I can assure you it's
 not even close.  It's not worth the effort to try to make it 

Re: [Gimp-developer] Gimp in private schools and educational institutions

2015-04-29 Thread Liam R. E. Quin
On Wed, 2015-04-29 at 23:13 +0100, C R wrote:

 To put it into perspective, do a Google Image search for gimp, and 
see the ratio of GIMP project images to fetishy Pulp Fiction swag.


The more common meaning of the word in English-speaking countries is a 
derogatory term for someone injured or disabled; for example,
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=gimp

It is not specific to the USA (I'm not from the USA and do not live 
there).

I write this sitting at a conference wearing a GIMP tee-shirt. But I 
don't wear that shirt at work. Part of my job involves accessibility.

Best,

Liam






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Re: [Gimp-developer] Gimp in private schools and educational institutions

2015-04-28 Thread C R
We should call it GNUIMP (pronounced New-Imp).
GIMP is just crushing recursive acronyms together ;)
Seriously though, the fact that it's not commercial software is likely to
be more of an issue than the name.
Google is about the worst name I can think of for anything adults would
use, yet it's used everywhere, by nearly everyone so the name itself is not
going to inhibit widespread adoption. GIMP is one of the most popular Open
Source software applications available to date. People who say it's not
popular or will never be (for any reason) simply aren't paying attention.

On Tue, Apr 28, 2015 at 9:34 AM, Alexandre Prokoudine 
alexandre.prokoud...@gmail.com wrote:

 28 апр. 2015 г. 8:22 пользователь Sam Bagot написал:
 
  Renames have worked in the past as I see it and for the most part, as I'm
  sure you've heard people consider before, a product named gimp can't
  succeed against a product named professionally like PhotoShop.

 We do not make GIMP to compete against Photoshop.

  And NO this product could never be implemented in
  schools period.

 Do you think you are likely to be listened to seriously, if you patronize
 people?

 GIMP _is_ used at schools. Also, USA is not the only country in the world.
 Not even the largest one out there.

 Furthermore, I suggest you exercise nastyness elsewhere. This is a mailing
 list for discussing development of GIMP.

 Alex
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Re: [Gimp-developer] Gimp in private schools and educational institutions

2015-04-28 Thread Alexandre Prokoudine
28 апр. 2015 г. 8:22 пользователь Sam Bagot написал:

 Renames have worked in the past as I see it and for the most part, as I'm
 sure you've heard people consider before, a product named gimp can't
 succeed against a product named professionally like PhotoShop.

We do not make GIMP to compete against Photoshop.

 And NO this product could never be implemented in
 schools period.

Do you think you are likely to be listened to seriously, if you patronize
people?

GIMP _is_ used at schools. Also, USA is not the only country in the world.
Not even the largest one out there.

Furthermore, I suggest you exercise nastyness elsewhere. This is a mailing
list for discussing development of GIMP.

Alex
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Re: [Gimp-developer] Gimp in private schools and educational institutions

2015-04-28 Thread Ofnuts
The name is a blocker in some US schools with teachers or student 
parents that over-sensitive (and somewhat dirty-minded, since gimp has 
other meanings in English).


By the way, one of the most popular Web server software is called 
Apache. In French, it is also slang for a street robber and any person 
of ill repute. Doesn't make it any less popular with corporate IT.


On 28/04/15 07:03, Sam Bagot wrote:

Renames have worked in the past as I see it and for the most part, as I'm
sure you've heard people consider before, a product named gimp can't
succeed against a product named professionally like PhotoShop.  So you

[...]
I could certainly find people in the professional world to talk about it if
a name change was in consideration.  What about GIM and pronounce it as
gem?  Why not just drop the P and it would be fine.  It would be explosive
and people could use it.  It would start to have young adopters and brand
loyalty.  Don't you want to have all your hard work go into a successful
product?


Best,
Sam


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Re: [Gimp-developer] Gimp in private schools and educational institutions

2015-04-27 Thread Sam Bagot
Renames have worked in the past as I see it and for the most part, as I'm
sure you've heard people consider before, a product named gimp can't
succeed against a product named professionally like PhotoShop.  So you
would only be loosing bad publicity anyway as the product is muted and
can't succeed.  No one knows what gimp is because it has zero market
penetration after years of existence.  Did you ever think that you having a
lot more exposure in schools for kids and having it taught in college
courses would lend to more people adding to the code and more money to
develop the product.  And NO this product could never be implemented in
schools period.  Don't kid yourselves, the name IS a blocker and name is
not an acceptable trademarks for public success.  The name is a joke and
definitely the reason why it's so far behind Photoshop in the professional
world.  Brand loyalty for this class of software doesn't start in the
professional world.  It starts in schools and college courses.  Photoshop
is as powerful as it is because they teach it in colleges.  Young people
come out of school with a working knowledge of how to make money with the
Photoshop product and they run with it for the rest of their lives.  It's
basically impossible to get someone to switch to linux especially gimp once
they have been trained for four years through college on a solid product
like photoshop with proper product direction and a focused core
competency.  How many businesses would have adopted Quick Books if it was
released with the title Sweaty Balls?  Same product, same publisher, but it
would have died on arrival.  And no one in the real world cares about
letter casing.  Gimp is GIMP and it literally is defined as inferior and
associated with sexual deviance.  Professionals pronounce acronyms as words
and it's pronounced gimp.  Your arguing with the dictionary if you believe
any differently.

As far as using the image software to fix the world's misconception of what
the word gimp means, in a competitive market of products, each team must
concentrate on it's core competency.  Changing the world's view of the word
gimp doesn't align with the goal of making quality image editing software.
They are totally separate concerns and I hope that's a joke that you would
be so concerned with the etymology of the word.  Why not name it Ass and
then tell people that your effort as a software engineer and you life work
were really just to get people to understand that an ass originally
refereed to donkeys?  I just doesn't make since.  Why not name your son Rim
Job and just tell him not to listen to other kids at school because it's
just a way of polishing the rims on your car.  He would not appreciate it
because that's not how the mind works.  No one cares about the outdated
origins of any word.  They care about connotation and not denotation.

How successful would firefox be if it was titled Faggot? That's a term for
a tree twig by the way.  Download the Faggot Web Browser here!!!  Battling
about the word faggot or the socio-political-cultural concerns of gay
people would kill the software effort to make a solid web browser.  That
battle over teh word faggot has nothing to do with browsing the web at all,
and that's an example of not sticking to the core competency of a product.
The people at firefox, rightfully, concentrate on making a solid product
that succeeds in the market.  Firefox successfully competes with both
chorme and safari and kicks the shit out of IE.  Solid work that the entire
open source community is in awe of.  They have their core competency
aligned with their product development, and you guys should too.  Compare
their funding to yours.  Compare their product and progress to that of the
gimp.  Firefox is a household name.  Ask people what firefox is on the
street for an experiment.  They all will know exactly what your talking
about and THAT's branding.  Walk down that same street and ask people if
they ever work with the gimp.  Women will slap you, most people would think
your being creepy, and you could be arrested for asking that to children.
I can't think of worse branding.  FireFox kills it and is a global
contender for the most popular and used softwares on the planet.  Gimp is
all but unheard of by the same people who have warmly become brand loyal to
other open source projects like firefox.  Please call Firefoxes Branding
department.  They would help you.  Seriously.

I can't believe that I'm hearing so much about how you guys feel the world
should change to accept your marketing and branding.  No product in
existence has ever succeeded with offensive, immature branding and
marketing, and then openly came out demanding that the entire world change
so that their product can have a chance to succeed.  Do you guys need a
product guy?  The direction is broken and the philosophy of your marketing
is the equivalent of potty humor.  I still don't believe you guys are
serious with your comments about how you on a die 

Re: [Gimp-developer] Gimp in private schools and educational institutions

2015-04-26 Thread Elle Stone

On 04/18/2015 11:55 PM, Liam R. E. Quin wrote:

On Wed, 2015-04-08 at 12:58 -0500, Sam Bagot wrote:

  A product called Gimp can't be used [in schools]



Although GIMP can be used in at least some schools, I agree with your
premise.

These conversations always seem to run the same course:

A: the name GIMP is offensive to me, or to people with whom I work. B:
No. The name GIMP isL not offensive.
A: yes it is.
B: It doesnt offend me, and your opinion doesn't matter to me. A: We
like the name. Bye.

For my own part I have some hesitation - for example, I am not about
to go to a meeting on making the Web accessible to people with special
needs while wearing a GIMP tee-shirt, and obviously can't promote
GIMP usage too openly at work.


You make a good point. I never thought about the tee-shirt angle. Now 
that you mention it, I would happily wear a Krita tee-shirt anywhere 
it might be appropriate to wear a tee-shirt. But I wouldn't wear a 
GIMP tee-shirt anywhere (not even at home - what if the doorbell 
rang?) because the connotations of the word gimp are too offensive to 
too many people.



The brand argument doesn't really cut much ice - plenty of other
Free and proprietary applications have been renamed in the past, and
the publicity can increase visibility.


Another excellent point.



Maybe instead of GIMP 3.0 we could have a Goat Rainbow 1.0 or
something?

But then you get into endless discussions about the name.


How about a small committee to select 3-5 possible names for review? 
Liam Quin could be the Chair and Sam Bagot could represent potential 
GIMP users who are unwilling to deal with the unwanted connotations of 
the name GIMP.


In the meantime, for school use, could you refer to the program as the
GNU Image Manipulation Program, and if people comment on GIMP explain
it's short for the longer name as that's too long to use everywhere?



Best,
Elle


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Re: [Gimp-developer] Gimp in private schools and educational institutions

2015-04-26 Thread Michael Schumacher


On 04/26/2015 05:06 PM, Elle Stone wrote:
 On 04/18/2015 11:55 PM, Liam R. E. Quin wrote:

 But then you get into endless discussions about the name.
 
 How about a small committee to select 3-5 possible names for review?
 Liam Quin could be the Chair and Sam Bagot could represent potential
 GIMP users who are unwilling to deal with the unwanted connotations of
 the name GIMP.

There will be no name change.

-- 
Regards,
Michael
GPG: 96A8 B38A 728A 577D 724D 60E5 F855 53EC B36D 4CDD
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Re: [Gimp-developer] Gimp in private schools and educational institutions

2015-04-19 Thread Alan Pater
How do we know that the word Gnu is not offensive in some schools in
some culture in some language? Also, the word manipulation has
negative connotations for some people in some cultures ..

On Sat, Apr 18, 2015 at 10:55 PM, Liam R. E. Quin l...@holoweb.net wrote:
 On Wed, 2015-04-08 at 12:58 -0500, Sam Bagot wrote:
  A product called Gimp can't be used [in schools]


 Although GIMP can be used in at least some schools, I agree with your
 premise.

 These conversations always seem to run the same course:

 A: the name GIMP is offensive to me, or to people with whom I work. B:
 No. The name GIMP is not offensive.
 A: yes it is.
 B: It doesnt offend me, and your opinion doesn't matter to me. A: We
 like the name. Bye.

 For my own part I have some hesitation - for example, I am not about
 to go to a meeting on making the Web accessible to people with special
 needs while wearing a GIMP tee-shirt, and obviously can't promote
 GIMP usage too openly at work. If it was called Wilber, or maybe
 Nazi or Spic or Hun... hmm, no, not those last three perhaps,
 but Wilber would be OK.

 The brand argument doesn't really cut much ice - plenty of other
 Free and proprietary applications have been renamed in the past, and
 the publicity can increase visibility.

 Maybe instead of GIMP 3.0 we could have a Goat Rainbow 1.0 or
 something?

 But then you get into endless discussions about the name.

 In the meantime, for school use, could you refer to the program as the
 GNU Image Manipulation Program, and if people comment on GIMP explain
 it's short for the longer name as that's too long to use everywhere?

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Re: [Gimp-developer] Gimp in private schools and educational institutions

2015-04-19 Thread Liam R. E. Quin
On Wed, 2015-04-08 at 12:58 -0500, Sam Bagot wrote:
  A product called Gimp can't be used [in schools]


Although GIMP can be used in at least some schools, I agree with your 
premise.

These conversations always seem to run the same course:

A: the name GIMP is offensive to me, or to people with whom I work. B: 
No. The name GIMP is not offensive.
A: yes it is.
B: It doesnt offend me, and your opinion doesn't matter to me. A: We 
like the name. Bye.

For my own part I have some hesitation - for example, I am not about 
to go to a meeting on making the Web accessible to people with special 
needs while wearing a GIMP tee-shirt, and obviously can't promote 
GIMP usage too openly at work. If it was called Wilber, or maybe 
Nazi or Spic or Hun... hmm, no, not those last three perhaps, 
but Wilber would be OK.

The brand argument doesn't really cut much ice - plenty of other 
Free and proprietary applications have been renamed in the past, and 
the publicity can increase visibility.

Maybe instead of GIMP 3.0 we could have a Goat Rainbow 1.0 or 
something?

But then you get into endless discussions about the name.

In the meantime, for school use, could you refer to the program as the 
GNU Image Manipulation Program, and if people comment on GIMP explain 
it's short for the longer name as that's too long to use everywhere?

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Re: [Gimp-developer] Gimp in private schools and educational institutions

2015-04-15 Thread Joao S. O. Bueno
On 15 April 2015 at 05:40, Simon Budig si...@budig.de wrote:
 Gez (lis...@ohweb.com.ar) wrote:
 [...] optional patch
 that provides and easy way to remove the name GIMP from the UI,
 replacing it for a different one?

 Now, seriously. What do devs think about this idea? If somebody provided
 a good patch for building GIMP easily with a different name as an
 option, would you accept that patch?

 No. It would only play into the hands we already have with fake
 packagers who sell Gimp without mentioning the Gimp brand name and
 without mentioning that Gimp is available for free as well.


Indeed -
Mr. Bagot -
I think the best approach you have is write the Software name in full
in all possible instances
(e-mails, documents, letters, etc...) - just write GNU Image
Manipulation Program - and leave
the acronym as if it did not exist in all written documents.

In my experience, name connotations are a matter os perception, and
many times it just hit
us in certain contexts - and may not bother our neighbors at all. For
example, it was only when phrasing this
paragraph I stopped to think about the sound of your last name would
have in my native language, and the possible
linked connotations - but just because I forced myself to think into
it in this context. Just as I don expect a full
400 million Spanish speakers to think of me as a good person.


Best regards,

   js
 --


 Bye,
 Simon

 --
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Re: [Gimp-developer] Gimp in private schools and educational institutions

2015-04-15 Thread Elle Stone

On 04/15/2015 08:19 AM, Joao S. O. Bueno wrote:

On 15 April 2015 at 05:40, Simon Budig si...@budig.de wrote:



No. It would only play into the hands we already have with fake
packagers who sell Gimp without mentioning the Gimp brand name and
without mentioning that Gimp is available for free as well.



Indeed -
Mr. Bagot -
I think the best approach you have is write the Software name in full
in all possible instances
(e-mails, documents, letters, etc...) - just write GNU Image
Manipulation Program - and leave
the acronym as if it did not exist in all written documents.

In my experience, name connotations are a matter os perception, and
many times it just hit
us in certain contexts - and may not bother our neighbors at all. For
example, it was only when phrasing this
paragraph I stopped to think about the sound of your last name would
have in my native language, and the possible
linked connotations - but just because I forced myself to think into
it in this context. Just as I don expect a full
400 million Spanish speakers to think of me as a good person.



Exactly. Software developers shouldn't be required to choose names that 
are free of all unwanted connotations in all languages, especially given 
that new unwanted connotations spring up just as fast as old unwanted 
connotations fade away.


Connotations are in people's mind, not in actual words. I am a native 
English speaker, but I didn't hear the unwanted connotations in the 
word GIMP until a couple of friends snickered, which reflects rather 
more badly on their minds than it does on the name GIMP.


Best,
Elle

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Re: [Gimp-developer] Gimp in private schools and educational institutions

2015-04-15 Thread Nathan Summers
On Wed, Apr 15, 2015, 4:41 AM Simon Budig si...@budig.de wrote:



 Gez (lis...@ohweb.com.ar) wrote:
 



 If somebody provided
  a good patch for building GIMP easily with a different name as an
  option, would you accept that patch?

 No. It would only play into the hands we already have with fake
 packagers who sell Gimp without mentioning the Gimp brand name and
 without mentioning that Gimp is available for free as well.


Sounds like closing the barn door after the horses have all escaped.

Rockwalrus
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Re: [Gimp-developer] Gimp in private schools and educational institutions

2015-04-15 Thread Gez
El mié, 15-04-2015 a las 10:43 -0400, Elle Stone escribió:
 On 04/15/2015 08:19 AM, Joao S. O. Bueno wrote:
  On 15 April 2015 at 05:40, Simon Budig si...@budig.de wrote:
 
  No. It would only play into the hands we already have with fake
  packagers who sell Gimp without mentioning the Gimp brand name and
  without mentioning that Gimp is available for free as well.
 
 
  Indeed -
  Mr. Bagot -
  I think the best approach you have is write the Software name in full
  in all possible instances
  (e-mails, documents, letters, etc...) - just write GNU Image
  Manipulation Program - and leave
  the acronym as if it did not exist in all written documents.
  ...
 
 Exactly. Software developers shouldn't be required to choose names that 
 are free of all unwanted connotations in all languages, especially given 
 that new unwanted connotations spring up just as fast as old unwanted 
 connotations fade away.
 
 Connotations are in people's mind, not in actual words. I am a native 
 English speaker, but I didn't hear the unwanted connotations in the 
 word GIMP until a couple of friends snickered, which reflects rather 
 more badly on their minds than it does on the name GIMP.

Guys, don't get me wrong.
I didn't suggest that the name has to be changed or that it's even
possible to choose a name that is 100% free of accidental connotations
for a project.
I just threw an idea about a possible solution for people who wanted to
use GIMP but had troubles with the name.
A patch for changing the name in the UI. You live in an area where the
name of the program could be a problem? then build GIMP using the patch.
Maybe changing the name isn't even required. What about just adding
punctuation to make the the acronym thing more obvious?
So, to be clear: what about a patch that replaces the few places in the
UI the name GIMP with G.I.M.P.?
Not for everyone, just for the people who want to use GIMP but have
issues with the name.

Personally I'd prefer that people can get over this kind of stuff and do
nothing about the name, but the prospect of over-sensitive people
keeping GIMP out of children schools because of the name makes me wonder
if a little compromise isn't a reasonable idea.

It's not the end of the world, and there are several precedents of
products that were renamed for specific markets.
The funniest one I know is the case of the Mitsubishi Pajero, that was
renamed to Mitsubishi Montero because pajero means wanker in several
spanish speaking countries.

That's far worse than spanish people expecting Joao to be good :-)

Gez.

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Re: [Gimp-developer] Gimp in private schools and educational institutions

2015-04-15 Thread Simon Budig
Gez (lis...@ohweb.com.ar) wrote:
 [...] optional patch
 that provides and easy way to remove the name GIMP from the UI,
 replacing it for a different one?
 
 Now, seriously. What do devs think about this idea? If somebody provided
 a good patch for building GIMP easily with a different name as an
 option, would you accept that patch?

No. It would only play into the hands we already have with fake
packagers who sell Gimp without mentioning the Gimp brand name and
without mentioning that Gimp is available for free as well.

Bye,
Simon

-- 
  si...@budig.de  http://simon.budig.de/
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Re: [Gimp-developer] Gimp in private schools and educational institutions

2015-04-14 Thread Gez
El mié, 08-04-2015 a las 12:58 -0500, Sam Bagot escribió:
 Hi, my name is Sam and I have been involved in several projects ranging
 from art classes in public schools to local art communities around Austin.
 I am a Linux person and use Gimp for everything.  I keep running across the
 same problem though.  The name Gimp is offensive to people and suggests
 inferiority to Photoshop.  In my experience, institutions would much rather
 pay for a professional product than teach a class to children involving
 gimps.  Which is also inappropriately associated with BDSM sex.  Either way
 it's looked at.  A product called Gimp can't be used by a public or private
 school.
 
 Is there any thought on salvaging the marketing effort and renaming this
 product so that it can be taken seriously by people and institutions?
 Also, a big barrier to entry adopting Linux for people is a solid graphic
 manipulator.  The bad branding is causing many people in my art communities
 around Austin to avoid Linux in general.
 
 What are the plans on renaming and success?

Hi Sam, this issue has been brought here a lot of times, and the answers
are pretty much the ones you already got: GIMP is an acronym, and is not
going to be changed.
I have a suggestion, though: Since this seems to be a problem that only
affects people from the USA, why not looking for some volunteers from
that country to contribute with code or some money for an optional patch
that provides and easy way to remove the name GIMP from the UI,
replacing it for a different one?
For instance, you could call the program Wilber, which is the name of
the project's mascot. There are rumors that Wilber is not a dog, but a
GIMP. But nobody has to know it :-)

Now, seriously. What do devs think about this idea? If somebody provided
a good patch for building GIMP easily with a different name as an
option, would you accept that patch?
In that case, a document with instructions for building the official
GIMP with its name changed, linked from the FAQs would be a quick answer
for these recurring inquires about a name change.

Gez

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Re: [Gimp-developer] Gimp in private schools and educational institutions

2015-04-11 Thread Alexandre Prokoudine
On Wed, Apr 8, 2015 at 8:58 PM, Sam Bagot wrote:

 The name Gimp [...] suggests inferiority to Photoshop.

Yes, some people tend to overthink :)

 In my experience, institutions would much rather
 pay for a professional product than teach a class to children involving
 gimps.

In my experience, institutions are all different. Some will refuse to
use GIMP, some will rename desktop icon or even patch out the
offensive name through out GUI, and many others will use it as-is.

  A product called Gimp can't be used by a public or private school.

It can, it has been, and it will be.

 What are the plans on renaming and success?

None whatsoever.

Personally, I have no particularly bad feelings (as if they mattered)
about renaming the app, but I've spent probably a week reading threads
on this GIMP is a horrible name topic by now, with maybe a hundred
new name suggestions, and I've yet to see one, just one sensible name
replacement that wouldn't look like IT people trying to be funny.

Alex
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Re: [Gimp-developer] Gimp in private schools and educational institutions

2015-04-11 Thread Elle Stone

On 04/11/2015 06:54 AM, Simon Budig wrote:

Hi Sam.

Sam Bagot (dsm...@gmail.com) wrote:

Is there any thought on salvaging the marketing effort and renaming this
product so that it can be taken seriously by people and institutions?
Also, a big barrier to entry adopting Linux for people is a solid
graphic manipulator.  The bad branding is causing many people in my art
communities around Austin to avoid Linux in general.

What are the plans on renaming and success?


Basically our approach is to redefine what Gimp means. In the vast
majority of the world Gimp refers to the Gnu Image Manipulation
Program, the alternate interpretation is unknown to most people in the
world.

Renaming Gimp would hurt our brand badly and is not an option.

If it is a problem in your local area (some areas in the US typically)
that is unfortunate, but we need to rely on your powers to explain that
we're helping in getting rid of the derogatory interpretation of the
term Gimp.



There is no denying that in the US (the entire US, not geographically 
limited), the name Gimp sounds odd and has unfortunate associations 
that have nothing to do with image editing.


I was told on IRC that the name is not Gimp or gimp but GIMP, Gnu 
Image Manipulation Program. If you always refer to GIMP instead of Gimp, 
the name is more obviously an acronym and some of the unwanted mental 
associations don't spring so easily to mind.


It might help if GIMP developers and the GIMP website consistently use 
the word GIMP instead of Gimp/gimp (the website already mostly does 
use GIMP, but the logo on the home page is lower-case).


If teachers and school administrators balk at the name, perhaps they 
could think of it as an opportunity for some sensitivity training. The 
English language is full of perfectly fine words that have unfortunate 
connotations. If we stop using words just because someone might be 
offended by the connotations, we will run out of words altogether.


Best,
Elle

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Re: [Gimp-developer] Gimp in private schools and educational institutions

2015-04-11 Thread Simon Budig
Hi Sam.

Sam Bagot (dsm...@gmail.com) wrote:
 Is there any thought on salvaging the marketing effort and renaming this
 product so that it can be taken seriously by people and institutions?
 Also, a big barrier to entry adopting Linux for people is a solid
 graphic manipulator.  The bad branding is causing many people in my art
 communities around Austin to avoid Linux in general.

 What are the plans on renaming and success?

Basically our approach is to redefine what Gimp means. In the vast
majority of the world Gimp refers to the Gnu Image Manipulation
Program, the alternate interpretation is unknown to most people in the
world.

Renaming Gimp would hurt our brand badly and is not an option.

If it is a problem in your local area (some areas in the US typically)
that is unfortunate, but we need to rely on your powers to explain that
we're helping in getting rid of the derogatory interpretation of the
term Gimp.

Bye,
Simon

-- 
  si...@budig.de  http://simon.budig.de/
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