Re: [Gimp-developer] Participation at Apple Developer Program

[Alexandre Prokoudine]

On Mon, Mar 26, 2018 at 1:45 AM,   wrote:
> I've invited you to fill out the following form:
> Participation at Apple Developer Program
>
> To fill it out, visit:
> https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSdRepYcE1dLD0342FaVGenU0Nr519SyK-MYzdGylmNXYq5rUQ/viewform?c=0w=1usp=mail_form_link
>
> Hi.
>
> Wed like to know opinions of all developers and contributors of GIMP,
> but not everyone is on IRC. Please vote :)
>
> P.S. Collecting emails in this form is disabled. Its safe to vote.
>
> Alex

Jehan reminded me of this, so I looked up the results:

https://imgur.com/a/R5euq4F

I find this so terribly irresponsible that I will donate the annual
membership to whoever is our next official macOS packager.

Alex
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Re: [Gimp-developer] Participation at Apple Developer Program

[C R]

> I just wanted to add that Kris is the person who makes things happen in
> GIMP for macOS. As far as I am concerned, as said earlier, he is therefore
> the one who should call the shots regarding such macOS build questions,
> rather than a vote (unless he wants to decide through a vote himself)
> because in the end, he is the one who has to make the grunt work here (as a
> volunteer, I remind).

+1
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Re: [Gimp-developer] Participation at Apple Developer Program

[Jehan Pagès]

Hi!

On Tue, Mar 27, 2018 at 9:21 AM, Kristian Rietveld 
wrote:

>
> > On 27 Mar 2018, at 03:25, Jehan Pagès 
> wrote:
> >
> > But right now, we are discussing paying to distribute a version of GIMP
> > which is barely kept alive. This is a bit doing things in the wrong order
> > IMO.
>
> In fact, I think this is the main point. Even in the case we do decide to
> pay for an account, we need to incorporate this into our build system. And
> I consider it more important to first get regular 2.10 builds off the
> ground than to produce signed binaries.
>
> [I am near having a script that completely automates the build and DMG
> creation. I wanted to have 2.10 DMGs available already, but unfortunately
> due to some family related events early this year I had to stall his work
> for a while. It is my intention to pick it up again now].
>
>
I just wanted to add that Kris is the person who makes things happen in
GIMP for macOS. As far as I am concerned, as said earlier, he is therefore
the one who should call the shots regarding such macOS build questions,
rather than a vote (unless he wants to decide through a vote himself)
because in the end, he is the one who has to make the grunt work here (as a
volunteer, I remind).

Jehan


>
> I voted “I don’t care”, because manually enabling the binary is in my
> opinion a minor nuisance to some of the other issues that need fixing. Also
> I don’t need this feature myself, but if the community wants to see this
> fixed I can look into it.
>
>
> regards,
>
> -kris.
>
>


-- 
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http://film.zemarmot.net
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Re: [Gimp-developer] Participation at Apple Developer Program

[Robert Krawitz]

On Tue, 27 Mar 2018 09:21:31 +0200, Kristian Rietveld wrote:
>
>> On 27 Mar 2018, at 03:25, Jehan Pagès  wrote:
>> 
>> But right now, we are discussing paying to distribute a version of GIMP
>> which is barely kept alive. This is a bit doing things in the wrong order
>> IMO.
>
> In fact, I think this is the main point. Even in the case we do decide to pay 
> for an account, we need to incorporate this into our build system. And I 
> consider it more important to first get regular 2.10 builds off the ground 
> than to produce signed binaries.
>
> [I am near having a script that completely automates the build and DMG 
> creation. I wanted to have 2.10 DMGs available already, but unfortunately due 
> to some family related events early this year I had to stall his work for a 
> while. It is my intention to pick it up again now].
>
> I voted “I don’t care”, because manually enabling the binary is in my opinion 
> a minor nuisance to some of the other issues that need fixing. Also I don’t 
> need this feature myself, but if the community wants to see this fixed I can 
> look into it.

Just a note about this -- in the Mac world, signed binaries are
perceived to be a security issue.  We (Gutenprint) had always planned
to sign our binaries after this came out, but it took us some time to
get the details right even with an experienced Mac person on the team
and we got a lot of complaints from our Mac users until we got it all
set up.
-- 
Robert Krawitz 

***  MIT Engineers   A Proud Tradition   http://mitathletics.com  ***
Member of the League for Programming Freedom  --  http://ProgFree.org
Project lead for Gutenprint   --http://gimp-print.sourceforge.net

"Linux doesn't dictate how I work, I dictate how Linux works."
--Eric Crampton
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Re: [Gimp-developer] Participation at Apple Developer Program

[Simon Budig]

alexandre.prokoud...@gmail.com (alexandre.prokoud...@gmail.com) wrote:
> Wed like to know opinions of all developers and contributors of GIMP,
> but not everyone is on IRC. Please vote :)

I voted "I don't care".

Bye,
Simon

-- 
  si...@budig.de  http://simon.budig.de/
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Re: [Gimp-developer] Participation at Apple Developer Program

[Kristian Rietveld]

> On 27 Mar 2018, at 03:25, Jehan Pagès  wrote:
> 
> But right now, we are discussing paying to distribute a version of GIMP
> which is barely kept alive. This is a bit doing things in the wrong order
> IMO.

In fact, I think this is the main point. Even in the case we do decide to pay 
for an account, we need to incorporate this into our build system. And I 
consider it more important to first get regular 2.10 builds off the ground than 
to produce signed binaries.

[I am near having a script that completely automates the build and DMG 
creation. I wanted to have 2.10 DMGs available already, but unfortunately due 
to some family related events early this year I had to stall his work for a 
while. It is my intention to pick it up again now].


I voted “I don’t care”, because manually enabling the binary is in my opinion a 
minor nuisance to some of the other issues that need fixing. Also I don’t need 
this feature myself, but if the community wants to see this fixed I can look 
into it.


regards,

-kris.

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Re: [Gimp-developer] Participation at Apple Developer Program

[Jehan Pagès]

Hi!

On Mon, Mar 26, 2018 at 6:08 PM, Ofnuts  wrote:

> On 03/26/18 00:45, alexandre.prokoud...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> I've invited you to fill out the following form:
>> Participation at Apple Developer Program
>>
>> To fill it out, visit:
>> https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSdRepYcE1dLD0342FaV
>> GenU0Nr519SyK-MYzdGylmNXYq5rUQ/viewform?c=0&
>> amp;w=1usp=mail_form_link
>>
>> Hi.
>>
>> Wed like to know opinions of all developers and contributors of
>> GIMP, but not everyone is on IRC. Please vote :)
>>
>> P.S. Collecting emails in this form is disabled. Its safe to vote.
>>
>> Alex
>>
>
> Did we try to get in touch with Apple developer relations and see if they
> would give us a rebate or even complete waive the fee? That would be good
> PR for them...
>
>
For the record, I did try to get in touch with Apple some time ago (may
have been a year ago, or more, or less, I don't remember), and I didn't get
any answer.
Or maybe I had an answer to a first email who told me to send an email to
another address, but I didn't get an answer from this second contact. Or
something like that, I can't remember exactly.

Bottom line: they don't care, and they didn't answer.

I feel that anyone who believes that Apple would even care about us is
misled. What are we compared to Apple? Nothing. Seriously what is the PR
for them here?
Now I'm happy to be wrong. Maybe I wrote to the wrong contacts (I don't
know anyone from the "inside", and simply tried to get through the official
contact media). Maybe they would sponsor. Maybe they would even donate more
as João believes possible. I don't believe so, but I may just be
pessimistic.

As for answering, I think I will just vote "I don't care".

But really for me, this is hiding the real issue: we have barely no macOS
developers. We have mostly a single dev caring for macOS, but his time is
very limited (which is not a problem, everyone has one's priority and he
does already a lot). For instance, 10 days ago, I made some changes to
macOS code, hoping for a macOS developer or one of third party packagers to
test the change. Nothing happened until today, just before the release (as
expected, things needed to be fixed).
So it looks a bit funny to me to be discussing how to better package for an
OS when we have nearly none to improve things for this said OS.

What I would love is for people who wants GIMP on macOS to actually *care*
for their OS (not "care" by *saying* "I care" but by actual action, i.e.
the real meaning of "caring"). If we had a few developers fixing regularly
GIMP for macOS, improving things, etc. then these people would want to get
a proper signed package for this platform, I'd be happy for us to have an
official account, even if I completely agree with Mitch that it is really
garbage that we have to pay for real good and clean Free Software; this is
shameful from this company. Yet if we have actual people giving of their
time, and really showing their care, I'd still say It would make sense.

But right now, we are discussing paying to distribute a version of GIMP
which is barely kept alive. This is a bit doing things in the wrong order
IMO.

Jehan

P.S.: most of what I said can be said for the Windows build too. Well
actually we seem to have slightly more love for this build, yet barely.
Only GIMP on GNU/Linux (and *BSD seems to have people watching closely too)
is actually very well maintained with a huge flow of fixes and improvements.



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Re: [Gimp-developer] Participation at Apple Developer Program

[Joao S. O. Bueno]

I voted yes -

But I also think we could ask Apple for a direct sponsorship for the
project  (obviously, not limited to this amount - maybe 100 times as
much is a reasonable value,
given the value made available gratis for all Mac OS users.)

Do we create another pool on that? Or can we figure out someone to
volunteer and contact them?

On 26 March 2018 at 13:08, Ofnuts  wrote:
> On 03/26/18 00:45, alexandre.prokoud...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>> I've invited you to fill out the following form:
>> Participation at Apple Developer Program
>>
>> To fill it out, visit:
>>
>> https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSdRepYcE1dLD0342FaVGenU0Nr519SyK-MYzdGylmNXYq5rUQ/viewform?c=0w=1usp=mail_form_link
>>
>> Hi.
>>
>> Wed like to know opinions of all developers and contributors of GIMP,
>> but not everyone is on IRC. Please vote :)
>>
>> P.S. Collecting emails in this form is disabled. Its safe to vote.
>>
>> Alex
>
>
> Did we try to get in touch with Apple developer relations and see if they
> would give us a rebate or even complete waive the fee? That would be good PR
> for them...
>
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Re: [Gimp-developer] Participation at Apple Developer Program

[Ofnuts]

On 03/26/18 00:45, alexandre.prokoud...@gmail.com wrote:

I've invited you to fill out the following form:
Participation at Apple Developer Program

To fill it out, visit:
https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSdRepYcE1dLD0342FaVGenU0Nr519SyK-MYzdGylmNXYq5rUQ/viewform?c=0w=1usp=mail_form_link 



Hi.

Wed like to know opinions of all developers and contributors of 
GIMP, but not everyone is on IRC. Please vote :)


P.S. Collecting emails in this form is disabled. Its safe to vote.

Alex 


Did we try to get in touch with Apple developer relations and see if 
they would give us a rebate or even complete waive the fee? That would 
be good PR for them...

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Re: [Gimp-developer] Participation at Apple Developer Program

[Mario Sottile - Marionetas Mey]

In life, to be inclusive, it's necessary and important to speak every 
language. Money is the language of Apple :-\...


I voted "yes".


Mario Mey
(linux-user & /apple-refuser/ ;-))

Marionetas Mey

Mario Sottile - Director
(011) 15.6283.1576
www.mariomey.com.ar
i...@mariomey.com.ar

El 25/03/18 a las 19:45, alexandre.prokoud...@gmail.com escribió:

I've invited you to fill out the following form:
Participation at Apple Developer Program

To fill it out, visit:
https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSdRepYcE1dLD0342FaVGenU0Nr519SyK-MYzdGylmNXYq5rUQ/viewform?c=0w=1usp=mail_form_link 



Hi.

Wed like to know opinions of all developers and contributors of 
GIMP, but not everyone is on IRC. Please vote :)


P.S. Collecting emails in this form is disabled. Its safe to vote.

Alex

Google Forms: Create and analyze surveys.
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