It would be a lot easier to give a meaningful response
to your question if you could clarify what the simpler
needs of your users are.
Yes, it would be a great if you give further details on what your needs
are. Maybe your ideas are compatible with current bug fixes or feature
Although I made the first suggestion of the direct download link in the
home page alla Mozilla, I can see why it would be problematic.
Maybe it would be better if the link with OS detection redirects to a
better organized and minimalistic download page, based on the
information of the browser
I think it's wise not to get too exited about browser sniffing.
A typical problem is sites like google.com redirecting me to google.es
just because I happen to be abroad.
This is about as helpful as your mate
switching your mobile phone to Russian while you're not looking.
I don't know if this was answered before, but I've been browsing the
archives and didn't find anything (if there was a discussion about this,
please point me the thread URL for me to follow it).
I'm using Gimp 2.3.15 under Ubuntu Linux, with the tile memory set in 1 GB.
Even though the overall
Sven Neumann escribió:
I think this is because the entire data is being redrawn regardless the
That is a wrong assumption, only the visible area is being redrawn.
Thanks for your reply and clarifications.
I meant when a large image is zoomed out. Sorry if I didn't
Fist of all, I want to thank Peter for his excellent work. I'm glad to
see that several problems of GIMP's GUI are being revisited and most of
the solutions suggested will be welcome in future releases.
I don't agree with #1 request, though. I know that this has been a
frequent request for
- by creating only one item in the windows list, grouping GIMP's
windows, instead of one item for each panel (it's quite confusing)
I say no item in the window list. inspectors do not match users' goals,
image windows do.
I meant the items in the tray bar / lower panel
I would actually want to have toplevel image windows listed in the task
bar. But I don't see a point of having a GIMP item there. Palettes like
the toolbox don't show up in the task bar anyway when they are set as
utility windows. You can already configure GIMP to behave this way.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
A great tool for designers would be a CSS layout importer (able to
import divs containers and place them as layers with guides in the
right plces). Sort of CSS-to-template.
But imo, it should be a plugin, not a core function.
That would seem like a good idea for
Thanks, I'm aware of the basic principals. But if something is to be
formalised into a plugin there has to be some well defined
way of working. Preferably a standard, not just a couple of jargon
words like slices and wireframe.
Oh, I'm sorry, I misunderstood you.
I'm not a programmer. I was
There's nothing wrong with your suggesting an idea to the list.
Your input as a web designer could be relevant if you can be specific.
Can you be more precise than wireframe? I still dont know what you
are wishing to see implemented.
Look, I said wireframe meaning the
These are just assumptions you are making , not a standard of any kind.
They are not just assumptions: a DIV without class or ID or style is
impossible to be visually formatted. So a clean div is just for
A DIV with one of those attributes can be -or not-
You can still reach it via adjacent sibling,
child or descendant selectors, or - if it does
have any other attribute - an attribute selector.
Ouch! Yes, you're right! It's not impossible :-)
But even in that situation it would be readable in the css
Hi. I'm working with Gimp 2.3.17 and having a persistent crash when
using levels or curves.
As far as I could test it, it happens on layers. If the file is a JPG or
a PNG (with or without alpha) it works fine, but if you create a new
file, place a layer using copy+paste or dragging a file (i.e.
From the user perspective, the downscaling quality is very important.
More if you consider using GIMP for web graphics production, where
downscaling is one of the most frequent operations.
It would be nice if this problem is addressed before 2.4
I understand the stability risk being so close to
I'm writing and testing the new ICC profile selection dialog box.
Separate+ includes this dialog since 20070610 release.
Please try it, and tell me any ideas.
Separate+ plug-in is available at:
Wow! This is so interesting! Is
I'm using 2.3.18 and I noticed that if I apply the autocrop layer
function twice, it crops the entire image to the layer dimensions.
It's like if you apply autocrop layer on a layer that has been cropped
it acts like the autocrop image feature (of the image menu).
It didn't happen with 2.3.16.
For a long time, nothing has changed in GIMP with respect to XInput
devices. So the fact that an upgrade introduced this problem seems to be
a strong indication that the problem is elsewhere.
I have similar problems using a Genius tablet. Once I used the pen,
mouse is no longer detected in
I tried to install Inkscape Fedora RPM, but for some reason the last
repository version seems highly broken (at least with my package setup).
I should compile it by myself when I have some time (lots of libraries
There are autopackages available at the
I'm noticing big differences between jpeg files from gimp and photoshop.
The same image exported as jpeg with the same quality factor (let's take
75% as an example) gives very different results in both programs.
In my tests, Photoshop image has better image quality, but its size is
Mark. Thank you for your reply. I'd like to clarify some of my comments.
You obviously have to compare qualities at similar filesizes. Everything else
I don't think the way the quality is expressed (I know, it's not
quality but compression ratio) is irrelevant.
If you came
Interesting, what platform are you using?
Ubuntu Linux (7.04) and Gimp 2.3.18
Here if I can do say 10 re-saves at 85% quality, it produces no
discernible changes in picture quality.
In fact I have tried to prove that recompressing jpg pictures reduces the
picture quality and got
Thanks everybody for your replies. It's more clear for me now.
- Compression factor isn't linear and in IJG, and that factor doesn't
represent a percentage.
- Photoshop converted its scale for making it more intuitive, but it
has nothing to do with the right IJG scale.
Thanks Michael for the
It seems that we're understanding each other. :-)
[EMAIL PROTECTED] escribió:
yes there does seem to be an issue here. I snipped the generation 0
part of that image did File | Save As...
then reopened the new version and repeated the save several times.
There is continual degradation. This
Can you clarify where this file is when you do CTRL+S ? You say you
open directly from the camera , do you mean you are opening a file
that is still on the camera ?!
My camera stores the pictures in a Compact Flash card. I use a card reader.
I copy those files to my hard drive, then I
OMG, at last!
That's what I was trying to say since the beginning.
I know jpeg is a lossy format (I knew that for at least ten years). I
know, and always knew, that it has generational degradation.
I didn't know that PS compression scale doesn't follow the jpeg
specification. Thanks for the
So please calm down and let the developers deal with this.
After all this is a developer list. Your
harsh comments are not helpful.
I'm not being harsh. At least it wasn't my intention.
In fact, this list is commonly considered to be harsh by many people,
but now I learn that there's
There is another player in the game and that's the last-used values
stored with gimp_[gs]et_data(). And that's what has bitten Guillermo.
He has saved an image as JPEG with low quality settings.
No, I haven't.
Since I know the problem I'm using always save as with quality=95 but it's
I am so glad that Guillermo stuck by his guns and apparently *finally*
got the developers to realise the illogic of this feature.
Scott: Please keep in mind that I was trying to collaborate, not to fight.
In these cases is very common to see differences of criteria and some
So I broke my promess.
creating interaction requires making hard choices, because you
cannot make an application for everybody.
I have to agree. A good UI doesn't do what users ask. It does what is better
for the users. ;-)
This approach of taking the lossy format to an import/export section
The Bezier tool is better suited to the tasks you're describing. Using
freehand tool as a precision tool (i.e. for background extraction) is a
Freehand tool is intended to make coarse selections or tweaks in
selections that don't need too much precision.
I'd reccomend you
David Gowers wrote:
You can already do that. Right-click in the Paths dialog, all the
standard operations (replace, add, subtract, intersect) are available.
Unless you mean boolean operations that modify the paths themselves,
rather than the selection. GIMP doesn't have that.
Yes, I'm aware
David Gowers wrote:
Yes, I'm aware of that. I mean to perform boolean operations on the paths
Well I think that GIMP should avoid doing that, and instead expect you
to do it with inkscape; transfer of paths between the two programs is
very simple and inkscape's just plain
A couple of weeks ago somebody commented about the quality of the
downscaling in Gimp.
iirc there was a patch that improved the quality (that was bumped for
future releases) and there was a discussion about the pertinence of the
different names of the algorithms in the interface.
Well, I know
David Gowers wrote:
Perhaps you mean supersampling?
Yes, it must be. I'm using a spanish localization of Gimp and try to
guess the correct translation.
Is there a command line option to launch gimp in english (just once, not
permanent) so I can use the correct words when I'm reporting a bug
Anyway, there is no point at all in pointing out how important such a
change would be. Several people have tried to improve the downscaling
quality over the last two years. Do you seriously suggest that we wait
another two years with GIMP 2.4?
I'm reading my previous comments and I can't find
Marius B wrote:
It seems that nobody is interested in this enhancement, but IMO it`s a
nice feature that is worth discussing.
I would like to hear your opinion about my mockup of this dialog
My previous message replied by Danko was intended to be off-list to
avoid the noise and personal opinions, but somehow it ended here, so I'd
like to clarify.
When I say that one must convince developers I mean by providing
strong arguments in favor of the proposed solution/feature.
My own feeling is that it would be better to wait until there is
some experience with the post-2.4 GIMP and higher definition
colour models before changing any of the colour tools.
Our intention is to describe a usage scenario and brainstorm a possible
interface for the tool, as
Gimp is a bitmap image manipulation program, so adding vector graphics
for other task than supporting image manipulation procedures (i.e.
selecting) is quite out of place.
IIrc some primitive shapes are already provided by plugins using xfig,
and you can easily create some vector shapes using
It's a good idea, but I think you should add a little explaination and a
voting system (like digg's one) to get some statistics of the degree of
popular aproval of each idea (but I'm not saying that the voting should
be considered for implementation, just statistics).
A little text explaining
Thank you for your reply. Now I understand what's the intention of the blog.
I first thought that was a kind of community approach to the UI
design, but I see that it's different.
The next time I send an idea I'll try to fit better into these
Comment your idea text
peter sikking wrote:
it is good discussing this, I will have to sharpen the 'blurb'
on the blog again after this mail. Tomorrow...
Ok, I understand your points. I'll do my best to improve my next
contributions in those levels.
Maybe I tried to cover many fronts in a single idea and should be
By the way, what does the replace mode do in the fade dialog? It seems
to have no effect when you adjust the slider.
I understand why Alexander found it odd. I agree that the normal type
should be the default (and the most expectable behaviour as well).
Anyway, I'd like to know what is replace
Ok with the need of the replace mode as the initial state of the Fade
Tool, but what use does it have?
I mean, in practical terms, you applied a filter, you want to fade back
to the previous state... What's the replace mode use in that case? (if
you drag the slider nothing happens).
October 24, Gimp 2.4, and... today is the Graphic Designers day in
Nice timing! :)
Congratulations developers. Gimp 2.4 will be a great success!
Gimp-developer mailing list
What do you think?
I think it's a great idea to have shorter deveopment cycles. It looks
like the project is more active and alive.
I've heard a lot of people saying that gimp was almost dead, while I was
testing 2.3.x series almost monthly. But people tend to think that the
I agree what Peter Sikking wrote. It seems -to my user pov- that cairo
migration is something that will provide new methods for addressing some
maybe menor, but longstanding UI annoyances, and it's great putting that
migration in the first place of the roadmap.
What I'd like to propose is a
, 2007-10-27 at 15:53 -0300, Guillermo Espertino wrote:
In general I like this change. But we absolutely need to discuss
want to handle multiple images with this approach. Things are getting
complicated as soon as you have more than one image window. You
I'm not a developer, but I am a pro, and I would love to see some kind
of tab implimentation--as long as the individual images can be
undocked or detabbed allowing more than one image open at a time. In
fact, that's the most profound idea I'd read about for the UI.
Yes, I knew that (both the utility setting and the image dialog).
What I meant was to polish those two features and make them work
correctly in every platform (afaik the utility setting seems to have
some problems in windows, for instance) so can make them available as
I understand. It's clear that everyone's preference may vary on this
-Photoshop users will ask for floating windows nested in a container window.
-Other users will ask for tabbed windows in a single window.
-Gimp orthodox users will ask for individual windows
Obviously it's impossible
Sven Neumann escribió:
Nevertheless, if we can make sure that there's always a leader window,
then using the utility hint is going to work much better than it does
Oh, I understand.
I can see why Inkscape hasn't the same problem. But in their case they
have a complete instance of
Sven Neumann escribió:
Perhaps we are simply talking about different things. Of course GTK+
provides a notebook widget and what else would we need to implement
Yes, we're talking about two different things :-)
I meant detachable tabs and different views like Opera's or Scribus'
Sven Neumann escribió:
How is that different? We already have detachable tabs in the GIMP user
interface. So why are you asking if this is possible?
I know there are tabs wich are detachable already. I was talking about
the way that
I'd add the quality of downscaling as a high priority need. Currently
it's possible to downscale images using 50% steps at a time (it was
discussed before) but it would be better if one single scaling step
produces the best quality possible (maybe automating the 50% steps, as
it was discussed
Currently, GIMP tries to do a bit of both in the same jpeg plug-in and
does not do either of them correctly:
Raphael: These subjects were discussed before in the list when I ranted
about almost the same.
Since that some changes were made in the jpeg plug-in for GIMP 2.4.0 and
imo they covered
Roadmap will be closed by the end of this week, so I'd like to make a
summary of the main issues I'd like to see fixed for 2.6
Since I'm not a coder, I just can give my user pov, so I'll try to be
realistic and don't ask for too radical things, just changes to improve
the existing tools. Please
Sven Nwumann wrote:
Nice to remind us of some issues but we are not going to put user wishes
on our roadmap. It is rather distracting to post user wishes to the
developer list. People here should be aware of the shortcomings and
without being a developer, your opinion is just one of many
Oh... the no gimmicks thing.
Anyway, I'd would like to know why common tasks wouldn't fit there
(apart of the usual it sucks).
Create a new image, open an existing image and open a recent file
are the first things people do with gimp. So why not?
I use drag and drop to
Sorry if I'm too late with this reply, but I just came back from my
A couple of months ago I studied this issue and proposed a mockup of an
introductory window for using when no image is open.
Sven explained some of the technical problems of this
I'm afraid that this no image window sounds more and more like the
photoshop-esque gray background window that everybody have been asking
for all these years.
The idea of keeping it, even when there is an image open, seems to back
that up. It will end up as a maximizable window and all the
First of all, sorry if this is the wrong place or moment to post this.
II think that integrating the separate+ plugin to Gimp would be a great
GSoC project. The lack of CMYK color has been a longstanding request and
this plugin is the only tool that approaches that possibility atm.
It would be
Guillermo, I would encourage you towards formalizing this application -
try to summarize objectively what exists today and what do you plan to
implement. Also, try some guestimates on a time frame for completing
Joao: Unfortunately I'm not a coder. I'm not even a student :)
About the graying out toolbox, dockers and elements not used when no
image is open, I think it breaks a functionality that is already present
in gimp: the ability to custumize the interface (moving dialogs to
dockers, changing the dimensions and position of elements, etc.)
That's, imo, a
As you can see from the responses to your mail, there are quite a few
trolls on this list who aren't even willing to try the new stuff.
Otherwise we wouldn't have gotten so many responses that are obviously
based on wrong assumptions and that clearly show that people have not
workflow (much people
uses save a copy for exporting to a lossy format keeping the
These changes can be quite traumatic for some users but in the long term
will benefit the usability and interface coherence of the program, so in
my honest oppinion, they have to be performed.
Please consider adding typographic elements (logos, text) and
icons/diagrams to the test images.
One of the most critic use cases where downscaling shows issues is with
high contrast such as dark typography on light backgrounds.
This is particularly important when working with small designs for
If you check this list's log you'll learn that the layout you suggest
has already been proposed about a year ago.
I know because I did it.
Later I proposed that layout again in my brainstorm entry about the
I used that layout for several months, but I changed my mind. And
This has been addressed in GIMP 2.5. And the change is even explained in
the release notes.
Oh, I didn't read that part. Great news. Thanks!
Gimp-developer mailing list
2008-09-18 Sven Neumann
* app/widgets/gimpdock.c: made the font scale factor for the docks
configurable in gtkrc.
* themes/Small/gtkrc: for documentation purposes, added the
default value for GimpDock::font-scale here.
I'm testing Gimp 2.5.4 and it's amazing.
I know it's late for a feature request, but I think it's worth to
discuss about the current behavior of the new feature present in the
transform tools: the ability to set the transparency of the layer or
selection being transformed.
I think it would make
The same applies to other tools. Again, every effect is doable now,
but the UI would be much cleaner with the notion colors,
not color, and oh that extra transparency channel so it is treated
like something alien among colors (in nature it is not -- water,
glass, air are transparent as
(hiding the original layer during the operation is possible, but
because of the simplicity of the preview rendering, the preview may
look much different that you'd expect.)
Probably this should be discussed a little bit more. There's a
particular situation where having an opaque original makes
- GEGL Unsharpen Mask: AFAICS, the values are the same of the regular
unsharp mask filter, but it has a larger scale. It allows extreme values (i
guess it makes sense for really high resolutions)
- View at Simulated Output: That's what the point to point option allows
I agree that it's quite confusing to have two different behaviors for
something that looks almost the same.
But I think it is good to have the other functionality available too, so
I guess it is worth to add a modificator key, as Peter suggested.
Something like this, for instance:
- Drop multiple
IMHO the way GIMP works is fine, and interaction should never be
blocked. We don't want a program that is unusable while an effect is
A better solution (and I think that the porting to GEGL is aiming in
this direction, among other things) would be to put the filter and the
What about this:
Gimp-developer mailing list
I don't know if this can be considered as a bug, but I'd like to discuss
some potential issues in the color profile embedding strategy.
Currently (correct me if I'm wrong) the procedure for images without
embedded profile is to silently embed the working RGB profile upon
This can be
I think it's not about customization or not. Is about avoiding a
cluttered prefs menu with gazillions of options and provide smart ways
to customize instead.
Look at this for instance:
(the upcoming Blender 2.5)
There you have an example of a highly
I send files to print shops every week. Here in argentina even serious
printers require proprietary file formats like AIs and CDR, though
they're fine with tiffs and PDFs.
I don't understand why there is so much interest in supporting PDF
export from GIMP, since the exported data will be only
CMYK exists because, though is possible theoretically, it isn't possible
to generate black from mixing CMY inks. As the C, M and Y inks aren't
perfect and have some contaminants, mixing them ends up in a dirty brown
instead of pure black.
That's why CMYK exists, and that's why it isn't so simple
Hi Robert, thanks for your comments.
This really sounds like you're using black as a spot color rather than
going generic editing in CMYK space.
That was just an example. Another example could be just putting an image
in front of a gray gradient background.
In my experience, it's not that easy
Even though I agree that most of the CMYK cases mentioned use CMYK
almost as spot colors, I can think of a very common usage scenario in
Graphic Design where you need to be able to edit CMYK directly:
Most frequently Pantones. Brands have their corporate colors and ask
El jue, 26-03-2009 a las 21:43 +0100, yahvuu escribió:
just to be shure (i'm probably just paraphrasing Andrew A. Gill's follow-up):
I think this task can be done equally well in an RGB space, say sRGB.
If Pantone's Bridge has sRGB approximations, it should be trivial. If not,
The more I read this, the more I feel that a solution like the present
in Inkscape (wich is not precisely an example of a great interface)
would be a one-time solution for everyone.
Just to see what I'm talking about, open a new Inkscape session, go the
the right edge of the window and drag the
I found your marbles.
Here you are... You can go now.
It's perfectly clear. You're leaving because you prefer Mac OSX and
Photoshop and people here have been mean with you.
Good luck and bye.
It seems to me you completely misunderstood the whole thing. What makes
you think there is any CMYK - RGB conversion involved here?
I think he's talking about the procedure to perform when the source file
is CMYK. The proposal is to convert it to RGB (in the what about CMYK
files section of
I'd really love to see GIMP Paint Studio presets as default too. That
would make possible to get rid of some default brushes that really don't
About the large size brushes, I also agree. I think that several small
round brushes should be removed (since brush scaling covers that need).
The defaults are ok and match other graphic packages like Inkscape.
I wouldn't touch them.
Maybe you're coming from another software like Corel Draw and you got
used to the scrolling with the mouse wheel, but that is not the same for
CTRL + Scroll wheel does the same. The only difference
Yo can remove it yourself when you want.
Just go to (assuming your GIMP is in spanish, your name looks spanish to
me :-) ventanas Diálogos empotrables herramientas and you can
activate/de-activate any tool in the toolbox, including the zoom tool.
Despite what a lot of people say,
what about printing a semi transparent copy of the actual brush on the
canvas? Is it possible?
The ghosted brush can have two opacities, one for the preview when the
tool isn't in use, and one more transparent when the tool is in use.
I wouldn't mind to have a simple circle of the size of the
What do you think about the method for splitting/joining views in
It's fast, it kinda covers the idea of the image parade and it allows to
float a section as a new window.
The only thing needed would be something to mark which is the active
image and that would be enough for
Peter: Thanks for your reply. You exposed some issues that I didn't took
Of course I'm not saying that Blender's UI can be ported as-is to GIMP.
However I found some of those ideas pretty interesting for our case.
first I noticed this set-up has no rulers or scrollbars. we
Just a couple of things:
- The splitting could display another view of the same image, just
like in blender. That would make working with views a breeze (for icons
or pixel art, for instance). It doesn't need to be empty if you dragged
it from an existing image window
- About the problem of
I don't know the official position about this, but I think that the
Wilber image you used looks pretty dated. I'd use the Tango version or
the icon for Mac that Jimmac designed.
They look much better and as far as I could see, the Tango version is
being used for GIMP since 2.4
I do t-shirts with gradient/blending all of the time - it's not any
more expensive, but it can be trickier to set up and print. The main
thing I see w/those PNGs is that they are too low-res for a full-front
Ehhhrm... I was talking about the re-drawn Wilber designs, not the
If you take a look on the list archives you'll find that I was one of those
designers saying that GIMP sucks because it doesn't have a CMYK mode. But I
changed my mind! :-D
Honestly, It took me to really understand how color management works and
leave some old bad habits alone to get it.
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