On Thu, Mar 26, 2009 at 11:21 AM, < gimp-developer-requ...@lists.xcf.berkeley.edu> wrote:
> Send Gimp-developer mailing list submissions to > gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > gimp-developer-requ...@lists.xcf.berkeley.edu > > You can reach the person managing the list at > gimp-developer-ow...@lists.xcf.berkeley.edu > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Gimp-developer digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: GIMP PDF export plugin (Andrew A. Gill) > 2. Re: a good student UI project... (yahvuu) > 3. Re: GIMP PDF export plugin (Guillermo Espertino) > 4. Re: GIMP PDF export plugin (Andrew A. Gill) > 5. Re: GIMP PDF export plugin (Graeme Gill) > 6. Re: GIMP PDF export plugin (Louis Desjardins) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 20:40:25 -0400 (EDT) > From: "Andrew A. Gill" <superlu...@frontiernet.net> > Subject: Re: [Gimp-developer] GIMP PDF export plugin > To: gra...@argyllcms.com > Cc: gimp-developer <gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU> > Message-ID: <alpine.lnx.1.00.0903251935200.31...@localhost> > Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; format=flowed; charset=US-ASCII > > On Thu, 26 Mar 2009, Graeme Gill wrote: > > > > As I understand it, Scribus is not a pixel editor, it is > > a page layout package, rather a different thing altogether. > > For the record, Scribus does allow pixel editing. > > When you right click on an image and select Edit Image, it opens > the image in GIMP. > > I think that's pretty strong evidence that there's no intent to > do raster editing in Scribus itself. > > > I really don't think people working in the graphic > > arts are going to want to master two different pixel editing > > packages, simply because one of them doesn't support anything > > other than RGB. If they're in the Linux sphere, then I guess > > they need to go and look at using Krita instead. > > FYI, Krita is extremely buggy. It has an SDI, which some people > (e.g. me) don't like, but the code will improve and there may be > improvements in the interface. Krita may indeed surpass GIMP. > Sad, really, since I think GIMP can be the better product. > > [from here out, `you' refers to core GIMP developers] > > We want you to succeed, and all you need to do to succeed is to > address some of the issues that users need. If you're telling us > that GIMP has no intention of ever providing those things, we'll > find another product. Maybe Krita when it becomes vaguely > stable, or maybe a fork. > > But you've got the time to do it before the others catch up, and > you've got GEGL, the toolset to do it right. > > Here's a thought: I can code. I'm sure others on this list can, > too. Why don't you tell us what you would require for a CMYK > mode to be incorporated into the trunk of GIMP. We can all read > the API, but you can tell us what coding standards we need, what > toes we can't step on and why other attempts to add similar > functionality (like Cinepaint nee FilmGimp) foundered, and what > we can do to avoid making those same mistakes. > > If you tell us what we need to do, we can do it. That's the > point of Open Source! > > If you don't, people are going to get sick of the excuses and > simply move on to develop this functionality somewhere else. > > >From the outside, GIMP is seen as a shining example of what open > source is capable of. Inside the OSS movement, it's seen much > like the XFree86 guys--constantly bickering about the same > issues. I'm sure that you'd have no trouble getting developers > to work on a flagship product if they were convinced that it > would end some of the internal conflicts in OSS. > > -- > | Andrew A. Gill To ensure continued quality of service, | > | this e-mail is being monitored by the NSA | > | <superlu...@frontiernet.net> <http://www.needsfoodbadly.com> | > -- > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 02:12:03 +0100 > From: yahvuu <yah...@gmail.com> > Subject: Re: [Gimp-developer] a good student UI project... > To: peter sikking <pe...@mmiworks.net> > Cc: GIMP Developer <gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU> > Message-ID: <49cad663.9060...@gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > Hi Peter, > > some ideas from a typical photo workflow: > > > perspective correction - select some prominent lines from the image > and "get them straight" > > alignment of horizon line - in cooperation with an automated guess? > > crop & rotate, set - virtual photography ala google earth? > aspect ratio perhaps even with composition aids (rule of > thirds, Westhoff's Diagonal Method, etc) > > levels, curves - could support the user's intention more directly: > - mark places in the image, which should be > brighter/darker, > or have more/less contrast or modified colors > - the whitepoint, graypoint pickers could be adjustable > markers > on the image. Or a completely different method for > whitebalance? > - if tones are getting compressed, better control of > where the > clipping happens (separately for each of R,G,B, Value) > > gradation map - nearly the same: map image points to positions in the > gradient > > > greetings, > peter > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 22:13:39 -0300 > From: Guillermo Espertino <gespert...@gmail.com> > Subject: Re: [Gimp-developer] GIMP PDF export plugin > To: gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU > Message-ID: <1238030019.8040.5.ca...@ohweb01a> > Content-Type: text/plain > > Even though I agree that most of the CMYK cases mentioned use CMYK > almost as spot colors, I can think of a very common usage scenario in > Graphic Design where you need to be able to edit CMYK directly: > > Corporate colors. > Most frequently Pantones. Brands have their corporate colors and ask > designers to use them, but they can not always afford extra spot passes > in offset press, so the colors have to be converted to the most > aproximate CMYK combination (the Pantone Bridge catalog is for that). > > So you have to adjust the color of a photograph of a sign, a truck and a > producto of your client to their corporate CMYK color. > > It's a photograph, you need CMYK, you can't use spot. > > This is a very common scenario, and it's a task for a image manipulation > program. > > Gez. > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 21:45:17 -0400 (EDT) > From: "Andrew A. Gill" <superlu...@frontiernet.net> > Subject: Re: [Gimp-developer] GIMP PDF export plugin > To: Guillermo Espertino <gespert...@gmail.com> > Cc: gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU > Message-ID: <alpine.lnx.1.00.0903252119201.31...@localhost> > Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed > > On Wed, 25 Mar 2009, Guillermo Espertino wrote: > > > Even though I agree that most of the CMYK cases mentioned use CMYK > > almost as spot colors, I can think of a very common usage scenario in > > Graphic Design where you need to be able to edit CMYK directly: > > > > Corporate colors. > > Most frequently Pantones. Brands have their corporate colors and ask > > designers to use them, but they can not always afford extra spot passes > > in offset press, so the colors have to be converted to the most > > aproximate CMYK combination (the Pantone Bridge catalog is for that). > > > > So you have to adjust the color of a photograph of a sign, a truck and a > > producto of your client to their corporate CMYK color. > > > > It's a photograph, you need CMYK, you can't use spot. > > > > This is a very common scenario, and it's a task for a image manipulation > > program. > > Sadly for the cause of CMYK, that's not really a good example. > That's a better example for the need for Pantone and other color > matching system support. > > Which GIMP will eventually need, but I'm thinking that day will > come a decade or two from now, hopefully when there's an open > source rival for Pantone. > > (I actually plan to take that task on, myself in a few years, as > part of some research) > > -- > | Andrew A. Gill To ensure continued quality of service, | > | this e-mail is being monitored by the NSA | > | <superlu...@frontiernet.net> <http://www.needsfoodbadly.com> | > -- > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 12:51:15 +1100 > From: Graeme Gill <grae...@argyllcms.com> > Subject: Re: [Gimp-developer] GIMP PDF export plugin > To: gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU > Message-ID: <49cadf93.80...@argyllcms.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > yahvuu wrote: > > Chris Mohler schrieb: > >> I can express any CMYK color in RGB - but not the other way around. > > > > now i'm confused :) > > > > Is CMYK->RGB->CMYK roundtrip safe? > > It depends on the gamuts of the respective colorspaces. > These are all device dependent colorspaces, so their > gamuts depend on the device in question. A gamut > can be described by a 3 Dimensional volume, and in > general two gamuts will have some region in common, > a region unique to one gamut, and > a different region unique to the other gamut. > This is often the case with RGB and CMYK > spaces (ie. sRGB and a typical offset press). > > Whether CMYK->RGB->CMYK is roundtrip safe depends > on whether the RGB space fully encompasses the CMYK space, > or (if it does not), if the gamut mapping is being > reversed through the transformations. > Some people deliberately use a very large RGB gamut working > space to avoid clipping CMYK colors. > > Note that by definition you loose the black inking information > though such a conversion, as well as a degree of fidelity. > > A traditional graphic arts workflow often looks > something like: > > Capture in RGB > > Edit/adjust in RGB and/or Lab > > Convert/Separate to CMYK > > Adjust in CMYK > > Layout/Compose/Add non-image elements in CMYK. > > Convert to RGB for soft preview. > > Print the CMYK. > > Although there are other more complicated ones, > including late binding (separating for the particular > output device after layout/composition). > > Graeme Gill. > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 6 > Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 23:21:11 -0400 > From: Louis Desjardins <louis_desjard...@mardigrafe.com> > Subject: Re: [Gimp-developer] GIMP PDF export plugin > To: gespert...@gmail.com > Cc: gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU > Message-ID: <49caf4a7....@mardigrafe.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed > > Guillermo Espertino a ?crit : > > Even though I agree that most of the CMYK cases mentioned use CMYK > > almost as spot colors, I can think of a very common usage scenario in > > Graphic Design where you need to be able to edit CMYK directly: > > > > Corporate colors. > > Most frequently Pantones. Brands have their corporate colors and ask > > designers to use them, but they can not always afford extra spot passes > > in offset press, so the colors have to be converted to the most > > aproximate CMYK combination (the Pantone Bridge catalog is for that). > > > > So you have to adjust the color of a photograph of a sign, a truck and a > > producto of your client to their corporate CMYK color. > > > > It's a photograph, you need CMYK, you can't use spot. > > > > This is a very common scenario, and it's a task for a image manipulation > > program. > > I cannot agree more. It?s day-to-day work, day-to-day reality. > > We could add dozens of examples, I guess. > > To this point I don?t believe it?s that important to start figuring out > whether the case is as good an example as it possibly can. I guess we > are not at all trying to make the trial of the use of CMYK in the > printing industry! (Now, that would be a total waste of time!) For those > interested I bet a full glass of beer ? available at LGM! ? that they > can find without too much efforts plenty of explanations about CMYK use > in the printing industry on the web. Even non-offset printing go by CMYK > and inkjet printing involves CMYK plus Light Cyan, Light Mangenta and/or > Vivid Magenta and some Black variations. Somehow, somewhere in the > process these printers need to convert the data so the printer can use > one of the CMYK inks that?s in the machine, be it toner or printing ink. > There is no way to ignore this reality. > > We?re back to the basics of color reality. It?s either a projection of > light or a reflexion of light. I mean, there are good books on the > subject. This part is easy. > > At this point in the discussion, it would be great to hear if the > quality of the information provided so far in terms of explanations and > examples is enough to lead someone or a group of developers in the GIMP > team to envision how this CMYK capability would be implemented into GIMP > and into what kind of developing frame (time, resource, GSoC, etc.)? > > If we do need further examples, I am ready to provide more info, > although I find the examples so far to be really on target. > > Cheers! > > Louis > > > > Gez. > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Gimp-developer mailing list > Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU > https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer > > > End of Gimp-developer Digest, Vol 78, Issue 49 > ********************************************** > -- http://www.watch-movies-online-hollywoodkiller.com
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