On Thu, Mar 26, 2009 at 3:04 PM, < gimp-developer-requ...@lists.xcf.berkeley.edu> wrote:
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Re: GIMP PDF export plugin (Martin Nordholts) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 23:45:41 -0400 (EDT) > From: "Andrew A. Gill" <superlu...@frontiernet.net> > Subject: Re: [Gimp-developer] GIMP PDF export plugin > To: Louis Desjardins <louis_desjard...@mardigrafe.com> > Cc: gimp-developer <gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU>, > gespert...@gmail.com > Message-ID: <alpine.lnx.1.00.0903252325460.7...@localhost> > Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed > > On Wed, 25 Mar 2009, Louis Desjardins wrote: > > > > To this point I don?t believe it?s that important to start figuring out > > whether the case is as good an example as it possibly can. I guess we > > are not at all trying to make the trial of the use of CMYK in the > > printing industry! (Now, that would be a total waste of time!) For those > > interested I bet a full glass of beer ? available at LGM! ? that they > > can find without too much efforts plenty of explanations about CMYK use > > in the printing industry on the web. Even non-offset printing go by CMYK > > and inkjet printing involves CMYK plus Light Cyan, Light Mangenta and/or > > Vivid Magenta and some Black variations. Somehow, somewhere in the > > process these printers need to convert the data so the printer can use > > one of the CMYK inks that?s in the machine, be it toner or printing ink. > > There is no way to ignore this reality. > > I am informed that some CcMmYK printers accept only RGB data. In > such cases, it would be better not to convert to CMYK, since it > will only have to be converted back to RGB before it goes to the > device. > > -- > | Andrew A. Gill To ensure continued quality of service, | > | this e-mail is being monitored by the NSA | > | <superlu...@frontiernet.net> <http://www.needsfoodbadly.com> | > -- > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 23:59:02 -0400 > From: Louis Desjardins <louis_desjard...@mardigrafe.com> > Subject: Re: [Gimp-developer] GIMP PDF export plugin > To: "Andrew A. Gill" <superlu...@frontiernet.net> > Cc: gimp-developer <gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU>, > gespert...@gmail.com > Message-ID: <49cafd86.3040...@mardigrafe.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed > > Andrew A. Gill a ?crit : > > On Wed, 25 Mar 2009, Louis Desjardins wrote: > >> > >> To this point I don?t believe it?s that important to start figuring out > >> whether the case is as good an example as it possibly can. I guess we > >> are not at all trying to make the trial of the use of CMYK in the > >> printing industry! (Now, that would be a total waste of time!) For those > >> interested I bet a full glass of beer ? available at LGM! ? that they > >> can find without too much efforts plenty of explanations about CMYK use > >> in the printing industry on the web. Even non-offset printing go by CMYK > >> and inkjet printing involves CMYK plus Light Cyan, Light Mangenta and/or > >> Vivid Magenta and some Black variations. Somehow, somewhere in the > >> process these printers need to convert the data so the printer can use > >> one of the CMYK inks that?s in the machine, be it toner or printing ink. > >> There is no way to ignore this reality. > > > > I am informed that some CcMmYK printers accept only RGB data. In such > > cases, it would be better not to convert to CMYK, since it will only > > have to be converted back to RGB before it goes to the device. > > This mostly depends on the RIP that is attached to the printer but > really, this doesn?t prove the point of the need of CMYK editing ability > to be wrong, does it? > > Louis > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 00:10:01 -0400 (EDT) > From: "Andrew A. Gill" <superlu...@frontiernet.net> > Subject: Re: [Gimp-developer] GIMP PDF export plugin > To: Louis Desjardins <louis_desjard...@mardigrafe.com> > Cc: gimp-developer <gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU> > Message-ID: <alpine.lnx.1.00.0903260008480.7...@localhost> > Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed > > On Wed, 25 Mar 2009, Louis Desjardins wrote: > > > > This mostly depends on the RIP that is attached to the printer but > really, > > this doesn?t prove the point of the need of CMYK editing ability to be > wrong, > > does it? > > On the contrary. > > Just trying to give people all the facts. I find it helps to > avoid being accused of partisanship. > > -- > | Andrew A. Gill To ensure continued quality of service, | > | this e-mail is being monitored by the NSA | > | <superlu...@frontiernet.net> <http://www.needsfoodbadly.com> | > -- > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 00:16:06 -0400 > From: Louis Desjardins <louis_desjard...@mardigrafe.com> > Subject: Re: [Gimp-developer] GIMP PDF export plugin > To: "Andrew A. Gill" <superlu...@frontiernet.net> > Cc: gimp-developer <gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU> > Message-ID: <49cb0186.10...@mardigrafe.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > Andrew A. Gill a ?crit : > > On Wed, 25 Mar 2009, Louis Desjardins wrote: > >> > >> This mostly depends on the RIP that is attached to the printer but > >> really, this doesn?t prove the point of the need of CMYK editing > >> ability to be wrong, does it? > > > > On the contrary. > > > > Just trying to give people all the facts. I find it helps to avoid > > being accused of partisanship. > > :-) > > Ok! > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 07:15:45 +0100 > From: Martin Nordholts <ense...@gmail.com> > Subject: Re: [Gimp-developer] Dockable Dialogs Should be Dockable > Everywhere > To: drizzt <g...@nathael.net> > Cc: gimp-developer@lists.xcf.berkeley.edu > Message-ID: <49cb1d91.1000...@gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > drizzt wrote: > > Hi all ! > > > > > > This is a long post, replying to many previous posts, and adding some > parts > > from IRC chats, and some even from discussions with Gimp developers. > > Hi, > > Long it was, for sure. Sorry but if you don't want the GIMP UI to evolve > and change, don't upgrade to new versions. > > Basic rules of interaction design applies to both open source and > commercial projects. Now, open source and commercial projects can have > completely different goals, and often have, but basic rules of > interaction design still applies. With all due respect it to me sounds > like you have not looked into interaction design at all and is just > ranting based on your highly personal preferences. Looking into the > world of interaction design will give you valuable insights. I recommend > you to read the book "The Inmates Are Running the Asylum" by Alan > Cooper. It is not a handbook on how to design interactive systems, but > more of an eye-opener of what's wrong with todays products and processes > as far as interaction design goes. In that book he addresses a lot of > the points you are making. > > BR, > Martin > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 6 > Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 17:49:45 +1100 > From: Graeme Gill <grae...@argyllcms.com> > Subject: Re: [Gimp-developer] Dockable Dialogs Should be Dockable > Everywhere > To: gimp-developer@lists.xcf.berkeley.edu > Message-ID: <49cb2589.2080...@argyllcms.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > Martin Nordholts wrote: > > world of interaction design will give you valuable insights. I recommend > > you to read the book "The Inmates Are Running the Asylum" by Alan > > Cooper. It is not a handbook on how to design interactive systems, but > > I wouldn't bother. Whatever insights are contained in this book > are completely clouded by the outright mistakes and predudice > it containts. It is little more than a rant in itself. > > Graeme Gill. > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 7 > Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 08:05:03 +0100 > From: Martin Nordholts <ense...@gmail.com> > Subject: Re: [Gimp-developer] GIMP PDF export plugin > To: "Andrew A. Gill" <superlu...@frontiernet.net> > Cc: gimp-developer <gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU>, > gra...@argyllcms.com > Message-ID: <49cb291f.1090...@gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > Andrew A. Gill wrote: > > [from here out, `you' refers to core GIMP developers] > > > > We want you to succeed, and all you need to do to succeed is to > > address some of the issues that users need. If you're telling us > > that GIMP has no intention of ever providing those things, we'll > > find another product. Maybe Krita when it becomes vaguely > > stable, or maybe a fork. > > > > With all the excellent input from people in the printing industry, > including you, I think it is as clear as it can be. GIMP needs to > support editing in the CMYK color space. Support for editing only in the > RGB color space will simply not be enough. The details on _how_ to > support this is still an open question, but that we _need_ to is to me > just unquestionable. > > > Here's a thought: I can code. I'm sure others on this list can, > > too. Why don't you tell us what you would require for a CMYK > > mode to be incorporated into the trunk of GIMP. We can all read > > the API, but you can tell us what coding standards we need, what > > toes we can't step on and why other attempts to add similar > > functionality (like Cinepaint nee FilmGimp) foundered, and what > > we can do to avoid making those same mistakes. > > > > If you tell us what we need to do, we can do it. That's the > > point of Open Source! > > > > If you don't, people are going to get sick of the excuses and > > simply move on to develop this functionality somewhere else. > > > > >From the outside, GIMP is seen as a shining example of what open > > source is capable of. Inside the OSS movement, it's seen much > > like the XFree86 guys--constantly bickering about the same > > issues. I'm sure that you'd have no trouble getting developers > > to work on a flagship product if they were convinced that it > > would end some of the internal conflicts in OSS. > > > > I must say I find this a bit arrogant. Supporting someone that is > inexperienced with hacking on the GIMP core to implement CMYK, which > arguably is the toughest task one can currently take on as far as GIMP > hacking goes, would be both very boring and very time consuming. That is > not something I want to spend my spare time on. If you want to help > implement better support for CMYK you should start working on and > looking into the GIMP code. After working on the code for a while you > will get your own ideas on how to implement CMYK in the best way. > > I've been contributing code to GIMP for quite a while now, and I don't > know yet know exactly how to implement support for CMYK editing in the > best way. All I know is that GEGL will be a much better base for this > than the legacy code. So if you want to help getting CMYK into GIMP, > helping with the integration of GEGL will be a good start. > > Best regards, > Martin > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Gimp-developer mailing list > Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU > https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer > > > End of Gimp-developer Digest, Vol 78, Issue 50 > ********************************************** > -- http://www.watch-movies-online-hollywoodkiller.com
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