On Fri, Mar 27, 2009 at 4:57 AM, < gimp-developer-requ...@lists.xcf.berkeley.edu> wrote:
> Send Gimp-developer mailing list submissions to > gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > gimp-developer-requ...@lists.xcf.berkeley.edu > > You can reach the person managing the list at > gimp-developer-ow...@lists.xcf.berkeley.edu > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Gimp-developer digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Gimp-developer Digest, Vol 78, Issue 49 > (Hollywoodkiller Movies) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2009 04:57:44 +0800 > From: Hollywoodkiller Movies <hollywoodkillermov...@gmail.com> > Subject: Re: [Gimp-developer] Gimp-developer Digest, Vol 78, Issue 49 > To: gimp-developer@lists.xcf.berkeley.edu > Message-ID: > <43e4d8fe0903261357h155588f7k83a83d36d0e5...@mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > On Thu, Mar 26, 2009 at 11:21 AM, < > gimp-developer-requ...@lists.xcf.berkeley.edu> wrote: > > > Send Gimp-developer mailing list submissions to > > gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU > > > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > > https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer > > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > > gimp-developer-requ...@lists.xcf.berkeley.edu > > > > You can reach the person managing the list at > > gimp-developer-ow...@lists.xcf.berkeley.edu > > > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > > than "Re: Contents of Gimp-developer digest..." > > > > > > Today's Topics: > > > > 1. Re: GIMP PDF export plugin (Andrew A. Gill) > > 2. Re: a good student UI project... (yahvuu) > > 3. Re: GIMP PDF export plugin (Guillermo Espertino) > > 4. Re: GIMP PDF export plugin (Andrew A. Gill) > > 5. Re: GIMP PDF export plugin (Graeme Gill) > > 6. Re: GIMP PDF export plugin (Louis Desjardins) > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > Message: 1 > > Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 20:40:25 -0400 (EDT) > > From: "Andrew A. Gill" <superlu...@frontiernet.net> > > Subject: Re: [Gimp-developer] GIMP PDF export plugin > > To: gra...@argyllcms.com > > Cc: gimp-developer <gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU> > > Message-ID: <alpine.lnx.1.00.0903251935200.31...@localhost> > > Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; format=flowed; charset=US-ASCII > > > > On Thu, 26 Mar 2009, Graeme Gill wrote: > > > > > > As I understand it, Scribus is not a pixel editor, it is > > > a page layout package, rather a different thing altogether. > > > > For the record, Scribus does allow pixel editing. > > > > When you right click on an image and select Edit Image, it opens > > the image in GIMP. > > > > I think that's pretty strong evidence that there's no intent to > > do raster editing in Scribus itself. > > > > > I really don't think people working in the graphic > > > arts are going to want to master two different pixel editing > > > packages, simply because one of them doesn't support anything > > > other than RGB. If they're in the Linux sphere, then I guess > > > they need to go and look at using Krita instead. > > > > FYI, Krita is extremely buggy. It has an SDI, which some people > > (e.g. me) don't like, but the code will improve and there may be > > improvements in the interface. Krita may indeed surpass GIMP. > > Sad, really, since I think GIMP can be the better product. > > > > [from here out, `you' refers to core GIMP developers] > > > > We want you to succeed, and all you need to do to succeed is to > > address some of the issues that users need. If you're telling us > > that GIMP has no intention of ever providing those things, we'll > > find another product. Maybe Krita when it becomes vaguely > > stable, or maybe a fork. > > > > But you've got the time to do it before the others catch up, and > > you've got GEGL, the toolset to do it right. > > > > Here's a thought: I can code. I'm sure others on this list can, > > too. Why don't you tell us what you would require for a CMYK > > mode to be incorporated into the trunk of GIMP. We can all read > > the API, but you can tell us what coding standards we need, what > > toes we can't step on and why other attempts to add similar > > functionality (like Cinepaint nee FilmGimp) foundered, and what > > we can do to avoid making those same mistakes. > > > > If you tell us what we need to do, we can do it. That's the > > point of Open Source! > > > > If you don't, people are going to get sick of the excuses and > > simply move on to develop this functionality somewhere else. > > > > >From the outside, GIMP is seen as a shining example of what open > > source is capable of. Inside the OSS movement, it's seen much > > like the XFree86 guys--constantly bickering about the same > > issues. I'm sure that you'd have no trouble getting developers > > to work on a flagship product if they were convinced that it > > would end some of the internal conflicts in OSS. > > > > -- > > | Andrew A. Gill To ensure continued quality of service, | > > | this e-mail is being monitored by the NSA | > > | <superlu...@frontiernet.net> <http://www.needsfoodbadly.com> | > > -- > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > Message: 2 > > Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 02:12:03 +0100 > > From: yahvuu <yah...@gmail.com> > > Subject: Re: [Gimp-developer] a good student UI project... > > To: peter sikking <pe...@mmiworks.net> > > Cc: GIMP Developer <gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU> > > Message-ID: <49cad663.9060...@gmail.com> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > > > Hi Peter, > > > > some ideas from a typical photo workflow: > > > > > > perspective correction - select some prominent lines from the image > > and "get them straight" > > > > alignment of horizon line - in cooperation with an automated guess? > > > > crop & rotate, set - virtual photography ala google earth? > > aspect ratio perhaps even with composition aids (rule of > > thirds, Westhoff's Diagonal Method, etc) > > > > levels, curves - could support the user's intention more directly: > > - mark places in the image, which should be > > brighter/darker, > > or have more/less contrast or modified colors > > - the whitepoint, graypoint pickers could be adjustable > > markers > > on the image. Or a completely different method for > > whitebalance? > > - if tones are getting compressed, better control of > > where the > > clipping happens (separately for each of R,G,B, > Value) > > > > gradation map - nearly the same: map image points to positions in the > > gradient > > > > > > greetings, > > peter > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > Message: 3 > > Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 22:13:39 -0300 > > From: Guillermo Espertino <gespert...@gmail.com> > > Subject: Re: [Gimp-developer] GIMP PDF export plugin > > To: gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU > > Message-ID: <1238030019.8040.5.ca...@ohweb01a> > > Content-Type: text/plain > > > > Even though I agree that most of the CMYK cases mentioned use CMYK > > almost as spot colors, I can think of a very common usage scenario in > > Graphic Design where you need to be able to edit CMYK directly: > > > > Corporate colors. > > Most frequently Pantones. Brands have their corporate colors and ask > > designers to use them, but they can not always afford extra spot passes > > in offset press, so the colors have to be converted to the most > > aproximate CMYK combination (the Pantone Bridge catalog is for that). > > > > So you have to adjust the color of a photograph of a sign, a truck and a > > producto of your client to their corporate CMYK color. > > > > It's a photograph, you need CMYK, you can't use spot. > > > > This is a very common scenario, and it's a task for a image manipulation > > program. > > > > Gez. > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > Message: 4 > > Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 21:45:17 -0400 (EDT) > > From: "Andrew A. Gill" <superlu...@frontiernet.net> > > Subject: Re: [Gimp-developer] GIMP PDF export plugin > > To: Guillermo Espertino <gespert...@gmail.com> > > Cc: gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU > > Message-ID: <alpine.lnx.1.00.0903252119201.31...@localhost> > > Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed > > > > On Wed, 25 Mar 2009, Guillermo Espertino wrote: > > > > > Even though I agree that most of the CMYK cases mentioned use CMYK > > > almost as spot colors, I can think of a very common usage scenario in > > > Graphic Design where you need to be able to edit CMYK directly: > > > > > > Corporate colors. > > > Most frequently Pantones. Brands have their corporate colors and ask > > > designers to use them, but they can not always afford extra spot passes > > > in offset press, so the colors have to be converted to the most > > > aproximate CMYK combination (the Pantone Bridge catalog is for that). > > > > > > So you have to adjust the color of a photograph of a sign, a truck and > a > > > producto of your client to their corporate CMYK color. > > > > > > It's a photograph, you need CMYK, you can't use spot. > > > > > > This is a very common scenario, and it's a task for a image > manipulation > > > program. > > > > Sadly for the cause of CMYK, that's not really a good example. > > That's a better example for the need for Pantone and other color > > matching system support. > > > > Which GIMP will eventually need, but I'm thinking that day will > > come a decade or two from now, hopefully when there's an open > > source rival for Pantone. > > > > (I actually plan to take that task on, myself in a few years, as > > part of some research) > > > > -- > > | Andrew A. Gill To ensure continued quality of service, | > > | this e-mail is being monitored by the NSA | > > | <superlu...@frontiernet.net> <http://www.needsfoodbadly.com> | > > -- > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > Message: 5 > > Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 12:51:15 +1100 > > From: Graeme Gill <grae...@argyllcms.com> > > Subject: Re: [Gimp-developer] GIMP PDF export plugin > > To: gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU > > Message-ID: <49cadf93.80...@argyllcms.com> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > > > yahvuu wrote: > > > Chris Mohler schrieb: > > >> I can express any CMYK color in RGB - but not the other way around. > > > > > > now i'm confused :) > > > > > > Is CMYK->RGB->CMYK roundtrip safe? > > > > It depends on the gamuts of the respective colorspaces. > > These are all device dependent colorspaces, so their > > gamuts depend on the device in question. A gamut > > can be described by a 3 Dimensional volume, and in > > general two gamuts will have some region in common, > > a region unique to one gamut, and > > a different region unique to the other gamut. > > This is often the case with RGB and CMYK > > spaces (ie. sRGB and a typical offset press). > > > > Whether CMYK->RGB->CMYK is roundtrip safe depends > > on whether the RGB space fully encompasses the CMYK space, > > or (if it does not), if the gamut mapping is being > > reversed through the transformations. > > Some people deliberately use a very large RGB gamut working > > space to avoid clipping CMYK colors. > > > > Note that by definition you loose the black inking information > > though such a conversion, as well as a degree of fidelity. > > > > A traditional graphic arts workflow often looks > > something like: > > > > Capture in RGB > > > > Edit/adjust in RGB and/or Lab > > > > Convert/Separate to CMYK > > > > Adjust in CMYK > > > > Layout/Compose/Add non-image elements in CMYK. > > > > Convert to RGB for soft preview. > > > > Print the CMYK. > > > > Although there are other more complicated ones, > > including late binding (separating for the particular > > output device after layout/composition). > > > > Graeme Gill. > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > Message: 6 > > Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 23:21:11 -0400 > > From: Louis Desjardins <louis_desjard...@mardigrafe.com> > > Subject: Re: [Gimp-developer] GIMP PDF export plugin > > To: gespert...@gmail.com > > Cc: gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU > > Message-ID: <49caf4a7....@mardigrafe.com> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed > > > > Guillermo Espertino a ?crit : > > > Even though I agree that most of the CMYK cases mentioned use CMYK > > > almost as spot colors, I can think of a very common usage scenario in > > > Graphic Design where you need to be able to edit CMYK directly: > > > > > > Corporate colors. > > > Most frequently Pantones. Brands have their corporate colors and ask > > > designers to use them, but they can not always afford extra spot passes > > > in offset press, so the colors have to be converted to the most > > > aproximate CMYK combination (the Pantone Bridge catalog is for that). > > > > > > So you have to adjust the color of a photograph of a sign, a truck and > a > > > producto of your client to their corporate CMYK color. > > > > > > It's a photograph, you need CMYK, you can't use spot. > > > > > > This is a very common scenario, and it's a task for a image > manipulation > > > program. > > > > I cannot agree more. It?s day-to-day work, day-to-day reality. > > > > We could add dozens of examples, I guess. > > > > To this point I don?t believe it?s that important to start figuring out > > whether the case is as good an example as it possibly can. I guess we > > are not at all trying to make the trial of the use of CMYK in the > > printing industry! (Now, that would be a total waste of time!) For those > > interested I bet a full glass of beer ? available at LGM! ? that they > > can find without too much efforts plenty of explanations about CMYK use > > in the printing industry on the web. Even non-offset printing go by CMYK > > and inkjet printing involves CMYK plus Light Cyan, Light Mangenta and/or > > Vivid Magenta and some Black variations. Somehow, somewhere in the > > process these printers need to convert the data so the printer can use > > one of the CMYK inks that?s in the machine, be it toner or printing ink. > > There is no way to ignore this reality. > > > > We?re back to the basics of color reality. It?s either a projection of > > light or a reflexion of light. I mean, there are good books on the > > subject. This part is easy. > > > > At this point in the discussion, it would be great to hear if the > > quality of the information provided so far in terms of explanations and > > examples is enough to lead someone or a group of developers in the GIMP > > team to envision how this CMYK capability would be implemented into GIMP > > and into what kind of developing frame (time, resource, GSoC, etc.)? > > > > If we do need further examples, I am ready to provide more info, > > although I find the examples so far to be really on target. > > > > Cheers! > > > > Louis > > > > > > Gez. > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Gimp-developer mailing list > > Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU > > https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer > > > > > > End of Gimp-developer Digest, Vol 78, Issue 49 > > ********************************************** > > > > > > -- > http://www.watch-movies-online-hollywoodkiller.com > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: /lists/gimp-developer/attachments/20090327/937f8ac1/attachment.html > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Gimp-developer mailing list > Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU > https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer > > > End of Gimp-developer Digest, Vol 78, Issue 53 > ********************************************** > -- http://www.watch-movies-online-hollywoodkiller.com
_______________________________________________ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
