Re: [Gimp-developer] donations for GIMP 2.8

2011-01-23 Thread Alexia Death
On Mon, Jan 17, 2011 at 11:46 PM, Sven Neumann s...@gimp.org wrote:
 Who wants to
 volunteer to prepare a list of bugs that are worth having a bounty put
 on them?
I believe it can only work if the bugs are nominated by developers who
are prepared to mentor whoever is doing it for the bounty. I can
dredge through my stuff, but Mitch and Martin and pippin for gegl
should really do the same for their own stuff.

-- 
--Alexia
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Re: [Gimp-developer] donations for GIMP 2.8

2011-01-17 Thread Sven Neumann
On Fri, 2011-01-07 at 00:27 +0100, Martin Nordholts wrote:
 On 01/06/2011 11:01 PM, Sven Neumann wrote:
  I just wanted to let you know that we have seen a dramatic increase in
  donations since then. More than 120 people donated over the last 8 days
  and sent us about 2,500 dollars. Perhaps it would be a good idea to
  discuss how we can actually use this money to make the GIMP 2.8 release
  happen soon...
 
 Here are some examples of what I think blocks a GIMP 2.8 release:
 
   * Finish single-window mode
   * Make layer masks work with layer groups
   * Bug 596410 - gimp-image-get-filename returns NULL for imported files
   * Bug 597117 - impossible to drop a group as a sibling inside a group
   * Bug 612931 - Moving individual layer in layer group not possible
  with Move Tool
   * Bug 600554 - Implement layer group transforms
   * Bug 624303 - Introduce an item class in PyGIMP
   * Bug 630748 - display filters do not work
   * Bug 631766 - Bad performance when moving brush outline on canvas
 
 One natural use of money donated specifically to speed up a GIMP 2.8 
 release would be in the form of bounties for fixing bugs that blocks 
 GIMP 2.8 from being released. I know we have a history of disliking 
 bounties, but as far as I know we never really tried, and now we have 
 money more or less ear-marked for this purpose.

So far this has been the most constructive idea that has been brought up
in this thread. So why not? Let's try to come up with a list of bugs
that block the GIMP 2.8 release and put bounties on them. Who wants to
volunteer to prepare a list of bugs that are worth having a bounty put
on them?

The stream of donations has dropped a little but there is still
significantly more money coming in than usual. We have received more
than $1,000 in the last 7 days.


Sven


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Re: [Gimp-developer] donations for GIMP 2.8

2011-01-17 Thread Mike Williams
On Mon, Jan 17, 2011 at 4:46 PM, Sven Neumann s...@gimp.org wrote:So far
this has been the most constructive idea that has been brought up

 in this thread. So why not? Let's try to come up with a list of bugs
 that block the GIMP 2.8 release and put bounties on them. Who wants to
 volunteer to prepare a list of bugs that are worth having a bounty put
 on them?

 Sven


Hi there.  This has been effective for google and mozilla, sounds like it is
worth a try.  I've got one week before school starts, if the list appears
soon, I'd be inclined to try to fix something.

Peace,

Mike
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Re: [Gimp-developer] donations for GIMP 2.8

2011-01-17 Thread Ofnuts

On 01/17/2011 11:32 PM, Mike Williams wrote:
On Mon, Jan 17, 2011 at 4:46 PM, Sven Neumann s...@gimp.org 
mailto:s...@gimp.org wrote:So far this has been the most 
constructive idea that has been brought up


in this thread. So why not? Let's try to come up with a list of bugs
that block the GIMP 2.8 release and put bounties on them. Who wants to
volunteer to prepare a list of bugs that are worth having a bounty put
on them?

Sven


Hi there.  This has been effective for google and mozilla, sounds like 
it is worth a try.  I've got one week before school starts, if the 
list appears soon, I'd be inclined to try to fix something.


Ideally CS professors would be lured into giving assignments around GIMP 
bug fixing... And this would introduce students to real-world programming.
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Re: [Gimp-developer] donations for GIMP 2.8

2011-01-10 Thread Michael Muré
Hi everyone,

You may know me as the student who coded the cage tool during this summer.

I'd like to add something about these bounty. For me, the key point
for the health of the community dev of Gimp is the current difficulty
to be used to the codebase. I myself had a hard time to understand how
things works in the code, and how to do things. The main cause of
these difficulty is the lack of technical documentation. We sometimes
need to read hundred lines of code just to know what an objet actually
do. The code architecture is obscur for most of the dev, and if we
loose the key dev, we will have hard time. If i haven't the pressure
of the GSOC program, I probably abandoned.

I once asked why we don't have these documentation. The answer i had
is that writing documentation is boring, that's like that in free
software, you just have to deal with.

That's a vicious circle. The less we have docs, the less we have dev.
And so, and so ...

My idea is to use this money to reverse the trend. Lets give bounty
for these docs. Here is some example of documentation I think is
needed:
- How to write a cool GObject for Gimp
- How to write a cool Gegl op
- A summary of what do core object if it's not already documented

Just have a look on what Blender's dev do to present their work, and
compare Blender and Gimp activity.
http://code.blender.org/index.php/2011/01/a-look-at-point-cache/

I hope this message will go somewhere ...

--
Michael Muré
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Re: [Gimp-developer] donations for GIMP 2.8

2011-01-10 Thread Øyvind Kolås
On Mon, Jan 10, 2011 at 5:05 PM, Michael Muré batolet...@gmail.com wrote:
 You may know me as the student who coded the cage tool during this summer.

 I'd like to add something about these bounty. For me, the key point
 for the health of the community dev of Gimp is the current difficulty
 to be used to the codebase. I myself had a hard time to understand how
 things works in the code, and how to do things. The main cause of
 these difficulty is the lack of technical documentation. We sometimes
 need to read hundred lines of code just to know what an objet actually
 do. The code architecture is obscur for most of the dev, and if we
 loose the key dev, we will have hard time. If i haven't the pressure
 of the GSOC program, I probably abandoned.

 I once asked why we don't have these documentation. The answer i had
 is that writing documentation is boring, that's like that in free
 software, you just have to deal with.

 That's a vicious circle. The less we have docs, the less we have dev.
 And so, and so ...
 snip
 My idea is to use this money to reverse the trend. Lets give bounty
 for these docs. Here is some example of documentation I think is
 needed:
  snip 

Code documentation is also one of the tasks that are not permitted for
instance in the Google summer of code, perhaps we could come up with a
set of bounties, or find someone motivated and fund them on a task by
task basis or even part time for documenting?

For a while, almost all the time I spent on GEGL (to the detriment of
progress wrt features and performance) was spent on cleaning it up,
and documenting it, website - references and more; this in case I
decided to completely drop the ball or get consumed by other things,
what I added was far from enough; and being the actual originator of
much of the things in GEGL I am almost a bit cursed by knowledge and
thus not the person best suited for it. Getting more documentation
sure will be one of the best ways of making it easier to involve more
people (and I am sorry for any bits of almost existing docs that
aren't fully integrated yet.)

/pippin
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Re: [Gimp-developer] donations for GIMP 2.8

2011-01-10 Thread Alexia Death
On Monday, January 10, 2011 19:17:51 Øyvind Kolås wrote:
 Code documentation is also one of the tasks that are not permitted for
 instance in the Google summer of code, perhaps we could come up with a
 set of bounties, or find someone motivated and fund them on a task by
 task basis or even part time for documenting?

I think this is a frightfully good idea too. One of those tasks could be 
writing the GIMP code Codex. Coding standards and best practices and so on. It 
could give us much easyer to merge forks for example. Its extremely annoying 
having to rewrite most of a great feature to make it fit  for merge And 
yes, I do remember my starting days trying to make sense of the GIMP on the 
inside.

Best,
Alexia
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Re: [Gimp-developer] donations for GIMP 2.8

2011-01-10 Thread Øyvind Kolås
On Mon, Jan 10, 2011 at 5:39 PM, Alexia Death alexiade...@gmail.com wrote:
 On Monday, January 10, 2011 19:17:51 Øyvind Kolås wrote:
 Code documentation is also one of the tasks that are not permitted for
 instance in the Google summer of code, perhaps we could come up with a
 set of bounties, or find someone motivated and fund them on a task by
 task basis or even part time for documenting?

 I think this is a frightfully good idea too. One of those tasks could be
 writing the GIMP code Codex. Coding standards and best practices and so on. It
 could give us much easyer to merge forks for example. Its extremely annoying
 having to rewrite most of a great feature to make it fit  for merge And
 yes, I do remember my starting days trying to make sense of the GIMP on the
 inside.

Note that many of the documents/the start of the documentation
described or desired do already exist but might not be appropriately
pointed to, and it has already been created and contributed to without
monetary reward. Lets hope use of rewards wouldnt scare off people
from contributing such work for free.

/pippin
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Re: [Gimp-developer] donations for GIMP 2.8

2011-01-10 Thread Michael Muré
2011/1/10 Øyvind Kolås pip...@gimp.org

  Lets hope use of rewards wouldnt scare off people
 from contributing such work for free.


 It could be a one-time operation, with clearly defined goal and bounty.
Just the time we need to have these needed documentation.

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Re: [Gimp-developer] donations for GIMP 2.8

2011-01-10 Thread Sven Neumann
On Mon, 2011-01-10 at 19:39 +0200, Alexia Death wrote:
 On Monday, January 10, 2011 19:17:51 Øyvind Kolås wrote:
  Code documentation is also one of the tasks that are not permitted for
  instance in the Google summer of code, perhaps we could come up with a
  set of bounties, or find someone motivated and fund them on a task by
  task basis or even part time for documenting?
 
 I think this is a frightfully good idea too. One of those tasks could be 
 writing the GIMP code Codex. Coding standards and best practices and so on. 
 It 
 could give us much easyer to merge forks for example. Its extremely annoying 
 having to rewrite most of a great feature to make it fit  for merge And 
 yes, I do remember my starting days trying to make sense of the GIMP on the 
 inside.

But who could write (and review) such docs? That would be the core
developers and we really need the core developers to work on GIMP 2.8.
Focusing on developer documentation is not going to make GIMP 2.8 happen
earlier. On the contrary, it is likely to delay it further.

Please try to come up with suggestions that focus on the 2.8 release.
Thanks.


Sven



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Re: [Gimp-developer] donations for GIMP 2.8

2011-01-06 Thread Martin Nordholts
On 01/06/2011 11:01 PM, Sven Neumann wrote:
 I just wanted to let you know that we have seen a dramatic increase in
 donations since then. More than 120 people donated over the last 8 days
 and sent us about 2,500 dollars. Perhaps it would be a good idea to
 discuss how we can actually use this money to make the GIMP 2.8 release
 happen soon...

Here are some examples of what I think blocks a GIMP 2.8 release:

  * Finish single-window mode
  * Make layer masks work with layer groups
  * Bug 596410 - gimp-image-get-filename returns NULL for imported files
  * Bug 597117 - impossible to drop a group as a sibling inside a group
  * Bug 612931 - Moving individual layer in layer group not possible
 with Move Tool
  * Bug 600554 - Implement layer group transforms
  * Bug 624303 - Introduce an item class in PyGIMP
  * Bug 630748 - display filters do not work
  * Bug 631766 - Bad performance when moving brush outline on canvas

One natural use of money donated specifically to speed up a GIMP 2.8 
release would be in the form of bounties for fixing bugs that blocks 
GIMP 2.8 from being released. I know we have a history of disliking 
bounties, but as far as I know we never really tried, and now we have 
money more or less ear-marked for this purpose.

We must not put bounties on things with vague scope like Finish 
single-window mode, that won't work. We can only put bounties on things 
where the work to be done is well-defined, like for

  * Bug 596410 - gimp-image-get-filename returns NULL for imported files

If the work to be done in order to get the bounty is unclear, we *will* 
get into problems.

I also think bounties shall only be claimable by people who would not do 
the work if there wasn't a bounty. For example, I won't and can't claim 
the bounty if I fix bug 596410, since I would have fixed it long ago if 
my spare time was infinite.

One tricky question is what the size of the bounty should be for each 
bug... Let's discuss that if we can agree on that we want to try 
bounties at all.


I think it is also worth to contemplate why we are in this situation 
where we want to make release, but can't because there's too much work 
left to do. The reason we are in this situation is because we develop 
features on the branch we make releases from. If things don't go as 
expected, like the case has been for single-window mode for example, we 
don't have any place to make releases from. The solution to this is of 
course to develop big features on feature branches. Basically, it should 
not be allowed to commit code to git master that is known to put the 
branch in an unreleasable state. We'll have good reasons to revisit this 
topic when we start working on GIMP 3.0...

  / Martin


-- 

My GIMP Blog:
http://www.chromecode.com/
Nightly GIMP, GEGL, babl tarball builds
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Re: [Gimp-developer] donations for GIMP 2.8

2011-01-06 Thread Michael Schumacher
On 06.01.2011 23:01, Sven Neumann wrote:

 I just wanted to let you know that we have seen a dramatic increase in
 donations since then. More than 120 people donated over the last 8 days
 and sent us about 2,500 dollars. Perhaps it would be a good idea to
 discuss how we can actually use this money to make the GIMP 2.8 release
 happen soon...

Alexia suggested that we get Peter a tablet. I think this is an
excellent idea - first-hand experience with different input devices
should help a lot when planning for GIMP user interaction, especially
with any of the tools.

I'd say we should aim for the same model Mitch got recently - an Intuos
4 plus an Art Pen.

Regards,
Michael

-- 
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Plug-ins  http://registry.gimp.org | .de: http://gimpforum.de
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