Fwd: Old and new [Re: [Gimp-developer] new default icon theme proposal]

2006-06-21 Thread David Gowers
.. I meant to send that to the list. Sorry if this is duplicated; gimpdev didn't show up on the list of recipients.-- Forwarded message --From: 
David Gowers [EMAIL PROTECTED]Date: Jun 21, 2006 10:59 PMSubject: Re: Old and new [Re: [Gimp-developer] new default icon theme proposal]To: Sven Neumann 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]After actually trying the new icon theme:

* The Scissors icon is the only vague tool icon -- i think the semi-transparent areas should be colored darker.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v449/neota/style/iconedit/blurry-scissors.png

* The path and paths icon are somewhat indistinct:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v449/neota/style/iconedit/indistinct-paths.png


So I tuned them a bit, with the following results:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v449/neota/style/iconedit/stock-path-16.png

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v449/neota/style/iconedit/stock-path-22.png

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v449/neota/style/iconedit/stock-paths-22.png

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v449/neota/style/iconedit/stock-paths-16.png


Which perhaps can replace the current ones.
Mainly, it hurts clarity to use antialiasing on 45 degree lines; but I also cleaned up all the antialiasing of the path line.

* The Ink icon is the best -- clear, iconic, and attractive.
* The Undo icon is a massive improvement on it's predecessor.
* While the Duplicate icon is a little confusing at first, it's definitely more distinct and clear than it's predecessor.
* The Convert To Indexed icon is wonderfully colorful -- reminds me of Rainbow Islands.


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Re: [Gimp-developer] new default icon theme proposal

2006-06-21 Thread Carol Spears
you all took the blue pill didn't you?

this is just another Aqua theme.

if we do not count downloads, how come we worry about making it easy to
use to the point where it looks like just another aqua-themed
application?

i appreciate the work that went into this, just i also know that mr.
steiner prides himself with making a clean look.  i would like you to
consider that the word clean and the word icon contradict themselves
in almost all of the meanings of those words.

these icons are going to clash so much with my desktop.

if we do not count downloads, then what is the reason that we seem to
think that we have to develop/change it to be easier to use?

because anonymous people in forums paste the same thing that some person
wrote a few years ago?

please at least provide the option to not go aqua

carol

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Re: Old and new [Re: [Gimp-developer] new default icon theme proposal]

2006-06-19 Thread Sven Neumann
Hi,

On Sun, 2006-06-18 at 20:19 +0100, Alan Horkan wrote:

 I was thinking that if Jimmac created his new theme independently -
 something he might have already done - it would remove any need to delay
 its introduction.  The theme could be added now it could be made the
 default later when it was completely ready.

The new theme will replace the current icons in CVS very soon now,
definitely before the next release.


Sven


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Re: Old and new [Re: [Gimp-developer] new default icon theme proposal]

2006-06-18 Thread Sven Neumann
Hi,

On Sat, 2006-06-17 at 09:54 +0100, Alan Horkan wrote:

 Will the old icons be offered as a seperate theme set?

If someone wants to create such a theme, we might consider to include
it.  I would suggest however that is it being shipped as a separate
package.  Perhaps we could have a package gimp-themes and one of the
themes it provides would be Classic


Sven


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Re: Old and new [Re: [Gimp-developer] new default icon theme proposal]

2006-06-18 Thread Alan Horkan

On Sun, 18 Jun 2006, Sven Neumann wrote:

 Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2006 20:01:00 +0200
 From: Sven Neumann [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: Alan Horkan [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED], Not Photoshop gimp-developer@lists.xcf.berkeley.edu
 Subject: Re: Old and new [Re: [Gimp-developer] new default icon theme
 proposal]

 Hi,

 On Sat, 2006-06-17 at 09:54 +0100, Alan Horkan wrote:

  Will the old icons be offered as a seperate theme set?

 If someone wants to create such a theme, we might consider to include
 it.

I was thinking that if Jimmac created his new theme independently -
something he might have already done - it would remove any need to delay
its introduction.  The theme could be added now it could be made the
default later when it was completely ready.

If you are happy to make it the default in the next release then it
wouldn't be worth doing any extra work.

 I would suggest however that is it being shipped as a separate package.
 Perhaps we could have a package gimp-themes and one of the themes it
 provides would be Classic

Could it be included in gimp-data extras, might save you having to create
another package?

-- 
Alan

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Re: Old and new [Re: [Gimp-developer] new default icon theme proposal]

2006-06-18 Thread Dalai Felinto
These three icons are very seemed:#define GIMP_STOCK_CHANNEL  gimp-channel#define GIMP_STOCK_CHANNEL_GRAY gimp-channel-gray#define GIMP_STOCK_CHANNEL_ALPHAgimp-channel-alpha
http://jimmac.musichall.cz/stuff/libgimpwidgets/stock-channel-48.png
http://jimmac.musichall.cz/stuff/libgimpwidgets/stock-channel-gray-48.pnghttp://jimmac.musichall.cz/stuff/libgimpwidgets/stock-channel-alpha-48.png
2006/6/18, Alan Horkan [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
On Sun, 18 Jun 2006, Sven Neumann wrote: Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2006 20:01:00 +0200 From: Sven Neumann [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Alan Horkan 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED], Not Photoshop gimp-developer@lists.xcf.berkeley.edu
 Subject: Re: Old and new [Re: [Gimp-developer] new default icon theme proposal] Hi, On Sat, 2006-06-17 at 09:54 +0100, Alan Horkan wrote:  Will the old icons be offered as a seperate theme set?
 If someone wants to create such a theme, we might consider to include it.I was thinking that if Jimmac created his new theme independently -something he might have already done - it would remove any need to delay
its introduction.The theme could be added now it could be made thedefault later when it was completely ready.If you are happy to make it the default in the next release then itwouldn't be worth doing any extra work.
 I would suggest however that is it being shipped as a separate package. Perhaps we could have a package gimp-themes and one of the themes it provides would be ClassicCould it be included in gimp-data extras, might save you having to create
another package?--Alan___Gimp-developer mailing listGimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU
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Old and new [Re: [Gimp-developer] new default icon theme proposal]

2006-06-17 Thread Alan Horkan

On Thu, 15 Jun 2006, Jakub Steiner wrote:

 Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2006 14:16:26 +0200
 From: Jakub Steiner [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: gimp-developer@lists.xcf.berkeley.edu
 Subject: [Gimp-developer] new default icon theme proposal

 Hi GIMP developers,
 I write to propose a new default icon set for GIMP 2.4. As GIMP is a
 multiplatform application it will in my view benefit greatly from an
 icon set that follows the Tango style guidelines [1].

Will the old icons be offered as a seperate theme set?

If the answer is yes then I look forward to seeing both themes included
soon.  Even if your new Tango theme is not ready/complete enough to be
immediately set as the default it would be great to have the option to
start live testing it alongside the existing icons.

-- 
Alan H.
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Re: Old and new [Re: [Gimp-developer] new default icon theme proposal]

2006-06-17 Thread Dalai Felinto
This theme:http://art.gnome.org/themes/icon/1261Is based in Tango too, what is the differences??Regards,Dalai
2006/6/17, Alan Horkan [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
On Thu, 15 Jun 2006, Jakub Steiner wrote: Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2006 14:16:26 +0200 From: Jakub Steiner [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: gimp-developer@lists.xcf.berkeley.edu Subject: [Gimp-developer] new default icon theme proposal Hi GIMP developers,
 I write to propose a new default icon set for GIMP 2.4. As GIMP is a multiplatform application it will in my view benefit greatly from an icon set that follows the Tango style guidelines [1].
Will the old icons be offered as a seperate theme set?If the answer is yes then I look forward to seeing both themes includedsoon.Even if your new Tango theme is not ready/complete enough to beimmediately set as the default it would be great to have the option to
start live testing it alongside the existing icons.--Alan H.___Gimp-developer mailing listGimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU
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Re: Old and new [Re: [Gimp-developer] new default icon theme proposal]

2006-06-17 Thread Alan Horkan

On Sat, 17 Jun 2006, Dalai Felinto wrote:

 Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2006 11:00:13 -0300
 From: Dalai Felinto [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: Alan Horkan [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED], Not Photoshop gimp-developer@lists.xcf.berkeley.edu
 Subject: Re: Old and new [Re: [Gimp-developer] new default icon theme
 proposal]

 This theme:
 http://art.gnome.org/themes/icon/1261

 Is based in Tango too, what is the differences??

That is a Gnome theme.

Jimmac is working on a theme to replace the icons in the GNU Image
Manipulation Program which is more specific and has its own internal icon
themes.

-- 
Alan
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Re: [Gimp-developer] new default icon theme proposal

2006-06-16 Thread Alexander Rabtchevich
Personally I found some of presented icons less recognizable than 
original ones. It concerns:


1.  magic wand - the spark is not distinguishable in light set

2. the hand in select by colour tool looks spreaded and isn't 
recognizable too.


3. intelligent scissors have lost the path.

4. dimensions tool looks better than original one but still needs 
improvement - its lines are too wide and so the tool itself looks less 
recognizable it could be.


5. Transformation tools have lost contrast lines which have become too 
wide and so it's hard to understand what do they mean. Look at the 
arrows at the rotation tool - how excellent they were visible before.


My overall opinion is: some of the lines became too wide and have lost 
contrast, which has lead to loose of volume of pictures. Too wide and 
less contrast lines are worse recognizable.


--
With respect
Alexander Rabtchevich
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Re: [Gimp-developer] new default icon theme proposal

2006-06-15 Thread Nathan Summers

On 6/15/06, Jakub Steiner [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


Hi GIMP developers,
I write to propose a new default icon set for GIMP 2.4. As GIMP is a
multiplatform application it will in my view benefit greatly from an
icon set that follows the Tango style guidelines.

You can preview the looks of the new GIMP icon set here:

http://jimmac.musichall.cz/screenshots/gimp-light-tango.png
http://jimmac.musichall.cz/screenshots/gimp-dark.png

http://jimmac.musichall.cz/stuff/libgimpwidgets/libgimpwidgets-GimpStock.html


I really like them.  They seem a little more distinct from each other
than the old ones did, which will make it faster to recognize them.
The new eek icon is fantastic.

The only concern I have is the small Wilbers.  They seem very square.
While it's true that Wilber is somewhat more linear than a true
organic shape would be, he still is much more more rounded than the
small icons appear.

Will you be planning to create a grayscale version as well, or would
it be better to stay with the existing grayscale version for our users
that prefer desaturated icons?

Rockwalrus
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Re: [Gimp-developer] new default icon theme proposal

2006-06-15 Thread Bart


Very cool!

The only thing is now that the toolbar needs grouping functions like:
http://www.neeneenee.de/blender/toolbar.png

or

http://www.neeneenee.de/blender/toolbar02.png

Jakub Steiner schrieb:

Hi GIMP developers,
I write to propose a new default icon set for GIMP 2.4. As GIMP is a
multiplatform application it will in my view benefit greatly from an
icon set that follows the Tango style guidelines [1]. 


Apart from defining a common visual style for free software
applications, one of the design goals was to make applications look
close to native on major desktop environments. The current GIMP set
includes elements that made the icons look quite unique (desaturated
colors, black stroke). That may not sound like problem, but as GIMP has
a lot of users on the windows and macintosh platforms, it is desirable
not to look out of place on those platforms. Similarly, KDE users will
most probably find GIMP look less alien on their desktop.

You can preview the looks of the new GIMP icon set here:

http://jimmac.musichall.cz/screenshots/gimp-light-tango.png
http://jimmac.musichall.cz/screenshots/gimp-dark.png

http://jimmac.musichall.cz/stuff/libgimpwidgets/libgimpwidgets-GimpStock.html

While the set isn't completely finished yet (some preference icons
missing) I'd like to thank Lapo Calamandrei and William Szilveszter for
their contributions.

And lastly -- this isn't a lonesome effort. Andreas Nilsson already
contributed large amounts of icons that follow the Tango guidelines to
the Scribus project [2]. At the same time, I am well into having an
OpenOffice set done [3]. After these are done, work will resume on the
gnome icon theme [4].

Also worth mentioning -- there is a project to create a standard set of
stock icons for graphic applications with a rather unimaginitive name -
Tango Art Libre [5]. This will allow to unify metaphors and perhaps even
share resources. This is still work in progress.

cheers

[1] - http://tango.freedesktop.org/Tango_Icon_Theme_Guidelines
[2] - http://kde-artists.org/taxonomy/term/21
[3] - http://jimmac.musichall.cz/i.php?i=Tango-OOo
[4] - http://jimmac.musichall.cz/i.php?i=git2
[5] - http://tango.freedesktop.org/ArtLibreSet

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Re: [Gimp-developer] new default icon theme proposal

2006-06-15 Thread Jakub Steiner
On Thu, 2006-06-15 at 09:22 -0400, Nathan Summers wrote:
 On 6/15/06, Jakub Steiner [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  Hi GIMP developers,
  I write to propose a new default icon set for GIMP 2.4. As GIMP is a
  multiplatform application it will in my view benefit greatly from an
  icon set that follows the Tango style guidelines.
 
  You can preview the looks of the new GIMP icon set here:
 
  http://jimmac.musichall.cz/screenshots/gimp-light-tango.png
  http://jimmac.musichall.cz/screenshots/gimp-dark.png
 
  http://jimmac.musichall.cz/stuff/libgimpwidgets/libgimpwidgets-GimpStock.html
 
 I really like them.  They seem a little more distinct from each other
 than the old ones did, which will make it faster to recognize them.
 The new eek icon is fantastic.
 
 The only concern I have is the small Wilbers.  They seem very square.
 While it's true that Wilber is somewhat more linear than a true
 organic shape would be, he still is much more more rounded than the
 small icons appear.
 
 Will you be planning to create a grayscale version as well, or would
 it be better to stay with the existing grayscale version for our users
 that prefer desaturated icons?

Hi Nathan.

Making the art greyscale is a matter of running:

`mogrify -colorspace gray *png`

The question is whether it makes sense to do it this way. It would
probably make more sense to do it in GIMP code and apply desaturation at
runtime. That way other themes can benefit from this. The need for
greyscale icons is that it doesn't take the attention from the actual
artwork (at least that's the feedback I got when we introduced color for
2.0). When doing it runtime, the icons could also show in color on mouse
hover. 

As for the wilber at 16x16, I did skew him like that on purpose. It's
the equivalent of doing font hinting. The shape is not true to the high
resolution glyph for the sake of sharpness and readability.

cheers


-- 
Jakub Steiner [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Novell, Inc.

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Re: [Gimp-developer] new default icon theme proposal

2006-06-15 Thread Jakub Steiner
On Thu, 2006-06-15 at 15:31 +0200, Bart wrote:
 Very cool!
 
 The only thing is now that the toolbar needs grouping functions like:
 http://www.neeneenee.de/blender/toolbar.png
 
 or
 
 http://www.neeneenee.de/blender/toolbar02.png

Hi Bart,

while this isn't really related to the new icon set, you have a point
here. There's way too many items on the toolbar by default. Personally
I'm working around the problem by hiding tools that I use so often that
I use a shortcut. 

Your solution looks nice. It would probably need to get tested on
inexperienced users to see if the disclosure triangle is enough of a
clue that there are more tools available...

cheers

-- 
Jakub Steiner [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Novell, Inc.

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Re: [Gimp-developer] new default icon theme proposal

2006-06-15 Thread Akkana Peck
Jakub Steiner writes:
 You can preview the looks of the new GIMP icon set here:

Nice icons! I have one comment about the SIOX icon in the light set.

In current CVS, I find that the SIOX icon looks very different from
the rest. It constantly draws my eye to it and makes me think
that it is the selected icon even when it isn't, because it's an
icon on a darker square background which makes it look a bit like
a pushed in button.  I was hoping this this was only temporary and
would change in the new icon set, but it looks like the SIOX icon
hasn't changed as much as the others. 

Would it be possible to make its background lighter, or even get rid
of the background, to make its style better match the other buttons?

...Akkana
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Re: [Gimp-developer] new default icon theme proposal

2006-06-15 Thread David Gowers
On 6/16/06, Akkana Peck [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Jakub Steiner writes: You can preview the looks of the new GIMP icon set here:Nice icons! I have one comment about the SIOX icon in the light set.In current CVS, I find that the SIOX icon looks very different from
the rest. It constantly draws my eye to it and makes me thinkthat it is the selected icon even when it isn't, because it's anicon on a darker square background which makes it look a bit likea pushed in button.I was hoping this this was only temporary and
would change in the new icon set, but it looks like the SIOX iconhasn't changed as much as the others.Would it be possible to make its background lighter, or even get ridof the background, to make its style better match the other buttons?

Personally I think replacing the background with a dithering
pattern would be appropriate.. or halving it's alpha. (I prefer the
dithering cause it is reasonably well known as a way of denoting
disabled items/ unimportant items)..
re: dithering, I meant a pattern like this:
x-x-x-x-x-x
-x-x-x-x-x-
x-x-x-x-x-x
-x-x-x-x-x-

where x is completely solid and - is completely transparent.

I'm ambivalent about the outside frame.. I think it needs to go to
eliminate the pressed-button look, but it doesn't jump out at me like
the BG.

Also, jimmac, what prompted the reduction of the outline contrast on
the FGselect icons? Just that it was difficult to make work at the
lower sizes?

The crop tool icon is a bit more incomprehensible than the previous
icon.. which I eventually came to recognize on occasion as a scalpel.
It could work better to emphasize the cutting edge by making the blade
darker and flat, highlighting the edge in near-solid white... Or maybe
it's meant to look like a razor.. In any case, I think that killing
some of the shading and emphasizing the edge is wise.

Otherwise, most of these are a big improvement.. particularly in
clarity and sharpness, I appreciate the pixeling skill involved. (the
brightness/contrast icon is about perfect particularly. ). I like the
new colors much better too.

One other thing.. I don't really apprehend the paint in the paintbucket
as paint. It's not that it's diffusely shiny, more that it's so
rectangular.. if you made a semi-isolated drip at the end, i think it
could be solved that way.
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Re: [Gimp-developer] new default icon theme proposal

2006-06-15 Thread Jakub Steiner
On Thu, 2006-06-15 at 09:38 -0700, Akkana Peck wrote:
 Jakub Steiner writes:
  You can preview the looks of the new GIMP icon set here:
 
 Nice icons! I have one comment about the SIOX icon in the light set.
 
 In current CVS, I find that the SIOX icon looks very different from
 the rest. It constantly draws my eye to it and makes me think
 that it is the selected icon even when it isn't, because it's an
 icon on a darker square background which makes it look a bit like
 a pushed in button.  I was hoping this this was only temporary and
 would change in the new icon set, but it looks like the SIOX icon
 hasn't changed as much as the others. 
 
 Would it be possible to make its background lighter, or even get rid
 of the background, to make its style better match the other buttons?

Thanks for the constructive feedback Akkana. It indeed is one of the few
icons with solid background. I tried to convey the fg/bg separation
message better this time around. Does that work for you?

http://jimmac.musichall.cz/wipicons/Tango-GIMP//stock-tool-foreground-select-22.png

(make sure you don't have it chached in your browser)

cheers

-- 
Jakub Steiner [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Novell, Inc.

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Re: [Gimp-developer] new default icon theme proposal

2006-06-15 Thread Jakub Steiner
On Fri, 2006-06-16 at 03:13 +0930, David Gowers wrote:

 Also, jimmac, what prompted the reduction of the outline contrast on
 the FGselect icons? Just that it was difficult to make work at the
 lower sizes?

Hi David,
can you help me in figuring out which icons you mean specifically?
Overall we tried to avoid black for outlines. It's the old GNOME style
that was fairly unique. All the other platforms, Windows, KDE, Mac OS,
use a slightly dark shade of a base color for the stroke if there is
one. We kept black on the gradients as it really needs maximum contrast
to see what tupe of color blend it is at such a small space. Also the
cursors will keep black stroke as it helps to locate it more easily on
the screen.

 The crop tool icon is a bit more incomprehensible than the previous
 icon.. which I eventually came to recognize on occasion as a scalpel.
 It could work better to emphasize the cutting edge by making the blade
 darker and flat, highlighting the edge in near-solid white... Or maybe
 it's meant to look like a razor.. In any case, I think that killing
 some of the shading and emphasizing the edge is wise.

You don't appear to be the only one who's not happy with the scalpel we
have. I'll investigate if it's possible to draw a recognisable rasor at
16x16 or maybe just a rectangle with the handlebars.

 One other thing.. I don't really apprehend the paint in the
 paintbucket as paint. It's not that it's diffusely shiny, more that
 it's so rectangular.. if you made a semi-isolated drip at the end, i
 think it could be solved that way.

Alrighty. I'll see about lowering the viscosity parameter in my icon
physics lab ;)

Thanks for the feedback.

-- 
Jakub Steiner [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Novell, Inc.

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Re: [Gimp-developer] new default icon theme proposal

2006-06-15 Thread Alexandre Prokoudine

On 6/15/06, Jakub Steiner wrote:


Thanks for the constructive feedback Akkana. It indeed is one of the few
icons with solid background. I tried to convey the fg/bg separation
message better this time around. Does that work for you?

http://jimmac.musichall.cz/wipicons/Tango-GIMP//stock-tool-foreground-select-22.png


It looks good, but the green arrow is hardly recognizable as arrow :(

Alexandre
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Re: [Gimp-developer] new default icon theme proposal

2006-06-15 Thread Jakub Steiner
On Fri, 2006-06-16 at 00:08 +0400, Alexandre Prokoudine wrote:
 On 6/15/06, Jakub Steiner wrote:
 
  Thanks for the constructive feedback Akkana. It indeed is one of the few
  icons with solid background. I tried to convey the fg/bg separation
  message better this time around. Does that work for you?
 
  http://jimmac.musichall.cz/wipicons/Tango-GIMP//stock-tool-foreground-select-22.png
 
 It looks good, but the green arrow is hardly recognizable as arrow :(

True. In the end it's just visual noise. Removed the arrows.

cheers

-- 
Jakub Steiner [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Novell, Inc.

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Re: [Gimp-developer] new default icon theme proposal

2006-06-15 Thread Akkana Peck
Jakub Steiner writes:
 Thanks for the constructive feedback Akkana. It indeed is one of the few
 icons with solid background. I tried to convey the fg/bg separation
 message better this time around. Does that work for you?
 
 http://jimmac.musichall.cz/wipicons/Tango-GIMP//stock-tool-foreground-select-22.png

Much better! It still stands out a little, especially if you put
it into a stock toolbox that doesn't have any of the other
icons-with-background enabled (so it's the only icon whose outline
is a square box instead of an irregular shape). But the important
thing is that it no longer looks selected, and it doesn't draw the
eye away from the other tools so much now.

...Akkana
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Re: [Gimp-developer] new default icon theme proposal

2006-06-15 Thread jernej
On Thursday, June 15, 2006, 14:16:26, Jakub Steiner wrote:

 I write to propose a new default icon set for GIMP 2.4. As GIMP is a
 multiplatform application it will in my view benefit greatly from an
 icon set that follows the Tango style guidelines [1]. 

Here are two sample images how the set looks on Windows:
http://userweb.upctelemach.net/~u052006/gimp-tango2.png
http://userweb.upctelemach.net/~u052006/gimp-tango3.png

-- 
 Jernej Simončič  http://deepthought.ena.si/ 

Any product cut to length will be too short.
   -- Klipstein's Observation

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